Yeah I would probably call if I am either of those guys (assuming KK has a diamond)...

3/30/2007 8:36:43 AM

Quote :

"i jusrt got sucked out by brian neiman, i had 8d6d minor preflop raise flop comes 9d7d2d nieman makes it $15 dude on my right goes all in for $13.75 more i reraise all in for $38 more neiman thinks for a while and calls nieman has 2 2 dude on my right has kk turn comes 9s river 5s ohh well he made the right call, cant be too mad"

i hope that means you raised

and..

15 + 13.75 + 38 = 66.75 which is what you have in the pot
15 + 13.75 = 28.75 which is what dude to the right has in the pot
15 is what nieman has in the pot before he makes the call

total is 110.5
nieman needs to call 66.75 - 15 = 51.75 (assuming he has you covered)

and he only has 6 outs plus another 3 on the turn (he could get a running pair, but then he has to avoid the straight flush)

if it's that obvious that someone could have a flush (or shit, even a higher set), i think i'd just wave my $15 dollars goodbye and wait

any other thoughts on this??

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 10:54 AM. Reason : /]

3/30/2007 10:54:44 AM

I would have made the same play.

3/30/2007 10:59:38 AM

as who?

3/30/2007 11:02:12 AM

As the original poster.

3/30/2007 11:02:23 AM

well... the original poster had the best hand, so i would have gone all-in too, although i probably would have raised more pre-flop (or not played at all)

I'm wondering if I would make a call with bottom set and a flushed flop when I make a big bet, and two guys go all-in after me. All the replies have been "yeah, that sucks, but everyone made the right play" whereas I don't think he really had odds to chase a full house.. and can he really think his set is good?

I guess depending on preflop bets it could be close, but it doesn't seem like a very easy call to me

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason : blah]

3/30/2007 11:11:47 AM

I think I could lay it down with 2 all ins in front of me... he's got 6 cards for a boat and 1 for quads or running par. I don't care what the pot is (unless its HUGE) -- I'm folding low set when you KNOW someone has a flush

and he's gotta dodge a King

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 11:15 AM. Reason : .]

3/30/2007 11:13:53 AM

i think we dont have enough info

we dont know the pfr

we dont know who made the pfr

we dont know the order

we dont know shit

except a name drop

3/30/2007 2:33:22 PM

He's a donk

3/30/2007 2:37:16 PM

Quote :

"nieman makes it $15 dude on my right goes all in for $13.75 more i reraise all in for $38 more"

order

as for the rest, you are right

3/30/2007 2:38:12 PM

want my take?

its different

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ok ill do it anyways.. hold on]

3/30/2007 2:40:06 PM

How can you KNOW someone has a flush, especially in these loose stupid home games. The odds of flopping a flush are like 118 to 1.... about .8%. So just because there are 2 all-ins in front of you, doesn't mean your bottom set is bad.

If I am holding AK... with the A or K of diamonds, I am likely to be betting really big after a flop like that. The same goes with JJ (with the J of diamonds). Of course this is all assuming your typical home game where I don't have an excellent read on someone.

In no way, shape, or form did "the dude on my right" make a bad play (assuming he had the K of diamonds). Hell, even if he just had KK without a diamond he could put nieman on a bluff or a flush draw or top pair.

Your all-in was a good play, however you have to realize that you were only 51% to win the hand (assuming the guy with kings had a diamond.)

And to have to call about $50 to win $60 is not a great play when you are only 31% to win, BUT that is pretty much worst case scenario (assuming no overset.)

My mindset on the hand if I were nieman would be "Odds are he is probably on a flush draw, playing top pair with the A of diamonds, or has an overpair, all of which I have beat. If he has a flush, I have outs (pot odds aren't good), but on the off chance (.8%) that he flopped his flush, I have outs." Then considering I was playing a home game for fun and relatively low stakes, there is no way I lay down my set, because it's for fun and not the end of the world if I lose.

3/30/2007 2:50:01 PM

Quote :

"i jusrt got sucked out by brian neiman, i had 8d6d minor preflop raise flop comes 9d7d2d nieman makes it $15 dude on my right goes all in for $13.75 more i reraise all in for $38 more neiman thinks for a while and calls nieman has 2 2 dude on my right has kk turn comes 9s river 5s ohh well he made the right call, cant be too mad"

i think we got the action all wrong here.

theres no way he pfr'd with 8d6d, even with position.

the KK obv. made the pfr, and we dont know to how much.

this looks like its .25/.50, so we'll assume something silly like $4.

neimen prlly in the blinds or in ep, this kid either in the bb or ep.

so lets just say ep, which brings a questionable call with for "raiser isnt deep enough for me to call with suited connectors" 8d6d.

or maybe it was kk in the bb, limp with 8d6d, neimen in sb, completes, kk pops to 4, others call

either way ~$12 in pre.

neimen opens for $15 to find out where his set is.

KK raises to $28.75, prlly making one of those "goddamnit ive got kings, i getting short, im taking a stand" type bets.

8d6d flopped huge, pushes for not what we are thinking is 38 more on top of the 28, but rather 38 more to the 15, so a total of $53.

comes back to neimen, who has to call $38 into a $109 pot

theres no decision to make there.

thats instacall.

kings shat the bed, 8d6d played it right, set played it like a set.

scratch your ass and move on

3/30/2007 2:51:48 PM

im kinda with feeble here


ive laid down a set on the flop

ermmm


never in my life.


it just wont happen.

3/30/2007 2:53:32 PM

i could lay it down, not saying i would've here, but i definetly could

3/30/2007 4:35:00 PM

whats the best hand you've folded, post-flop, or anywhere after?

i folded a full house, 6's full of 7's, thinking he had a higher full house. i was right. he had 9's full of 7's.

still lost a lot of money though
but it could have been more.

3/30/2007 4:58:54 PM

Aces full before.

but the guy played his quads like a dummy.

3/30/2007 5:02:56 PM

they should make it possible to talk to your table via headsets like xbox live or something

3/30/2007 5:25:01 PM

yeah thats a horrible idea

3/30/2007 6:02:00 PM

haha are you serious? you've never wanted to say something to someone at the table?

3/30/2007 6:02:38 PM

Here's my take on poker and folding big hands.

Lots and lots of people play poker. Most of these people think they are really good. Very few are actually really good.

A lot of people like to brag about making great calls. Many of these people simply will call you down with inferior hands. Sure, they might make some great calls and "sniff" out a bluff, but odds are they are just too loose and don't know it, and lose a lot more money in the long run calling with weak hands that hey should have folded.

Conversely, there are those people who brag about making great folds. Much like before, sure, some of his laydowns may be really good. But odds are, if you're folding many sets after the flop, you're way too tight.

Realizing that probably about 60% of the players I play with are "great callers" and 30% of the players I play with are "great folders", that leaves about 10% of people who really are pretty good and make the "right" read and the "right" play most of the time.

I like to think of myself as someone who is somewhere between a pretty good player and a great folder. I make more good reads than bad I think, but if and when I do err, it is on the side of being over-conservative. However, I realize my limitations and I am fine with that. While I am not thrilled about laying down the best hand to a big bluff, I am OK with it. In my mind, I would much rather believe I made a great fold then know I made a great call. This generally keeps me from winning real big when I play, but at the same time, I do not recall the last time I had two losing sessions in a row. I don't think I will ever be good enough to read people any more than picking up major tells or recognizing betting patterns, but once again, I am OK with that because I win just about every time I play.

3/30/2007 6:03:18 PM

thats what my dog is for


its bad enough to see the drivel they type

3/30/2007 6:03:18 PM

well i mean you could turn it on and off.......okay fine \



they should invent something where you could reach into the computer and slap your balls on some dude's chin then

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 6:09 PM. Reason : dfd]

3/30/2007 6:09:15 PM

interactive porn is only years away

i'd venture to estimate

3/30/2007 6:10:28 PM

i wanted to invent virtually reality porn for a while

3/30/2007 6:11:44 PM

There would be way too much collusion if you could talk.... and less means to prove it.

3/30/2007 6:15:50 PM

i mean

online retailers have been begging for mice that allow you to feel texture for a while

there have been variants of prototypes produced already

i mean, i'd probably shop more online if i could feel what the jeans felt like or whatever

and by god if i can feel my cashmere socks before i buy them, then the next step is a tit

3/30/2007 6:17:59 PM

they could listen in...easy enough...........yea fine forget my idea

3/30/2007 6:18:01 PM

does anyone here play poker?

3/30/2007 6:33:12 PM

nah

3/30/2007 7:09:12 PM

this is a littel off topic but, after I won the 20 dollars in my bar game I won 125 in ping-pong, anybody ever won that much money playing ping-pong?

PS I was so drunk during poker that I fell over backwards and broke my chair about
45 min before I won

4/2/2007 1:26:14 AM

nice, so you are "that guy"

4/2/2007 2:14:48 PM

No, no one in the world has ever made that much playing ping pong. Good job!

4/2/2007 2:17:42 PM

just saw pearljammer got 4th in the 100k guaranteed on bodog....not a huge cash by his standards but he went through like 860players, kid is sick.

4/2/2007 5:26:02 PM

David Benyamine is on HSP. That guy is a fucking beast. On and off the table.

4/2/2007 9:08:46 PM

anyone on here use bodog? i need to get some cash out of my account, but it's gonna take like a week for the withdrawal.

anyone willing to let me chip dump or transfer on bodog and give the cash to my friend?

4/3/2007 1:08:23 PM

brad booth made one of the sickest plays ive seen in a long time last night on hsp.

and benyamine almost cost him a call on a monster bluff

going way out of line with what he was saying

4/3/2007 1:15:27 PM

yo pilgrim what do you think about ivey's laydown? i mean in a low limit game i think i have to call with the kings there. I mean are you really gonna bet a set or two pair like that? of course in this high of a level he could be overbetting it for just that reason so it's obviously wayyy harder of a call, but in a 2-5 game i like to think i call there.

I actually think ivey might've put him on aces, but idk.

4/3/2007 1:25:06 PM

its not the limit that made the bet uncallable.

it was

1.) the setup
2.) the position
3.) the size of the bet

without some monster read, there's no way ivey can call there, even with aces. and well, we know iveyisnt RR'ng that monster OOP witha midling pair

i mean

you cant equate it to a small stakes game or something like 2/5, b/c it was a $300,000 bet at a 300/600 game.

thats a 500 bb bet.

i mean, it happens

but its rare


it was a total deep stack play.

from the very get go

the RR of DW was a deep stack play

the asking how shallow ivey was on iveys' RR to 17k (or whatever)

then the essential push on iveys ~$35k pot bet ont he flop

i mean

thats straight out of supersystem, a book whose contexts arent really built for 100bb cap games that we all play and are used to.

deep stack poker is an entirely different beast

i mean booth went total 4th level there

4/3/2007 4:13:08 PM

Were you constantly hitting the refresh button until TWW was back up again Ben?

4/3/2007 4:19:22 PM

had it saved in a text file

4/3/2007 4:21:42 PM

care to elaborate on what the hand was as opposed to the philosophy of the hand?

nm found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8_gO1_Njg

[Edited on April 3, 2007 at 4:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/3/2007 4:25:30 PM

haha i was refreshing like mad

no one trying to deposit to bodog?

4/3/2007 5:14:51 PM

All-in overbets are often draws, so people are starting to play sets like that in high stakes cash games when they think their opponent has a big pair. Booth totally 5th leveled him.


NH.

4/3/2007 5:22:01 PM

yea definetly, i mean that's what i was saying about a 2-5 game though, i don't think i could give him credit for the 5th level there

[Edited on April 3, 2007 at 5:24 PM. Reason : or i guess it would be 4th]

4/3/2007 5:24:02 PM

Level 1: He just went all-in for 300k, he must have something better than KK.
Level 2: Why would he overpush with something better than KK, he must have a draw.
Level 3: He knows that bet looks like a draw and he thinks I have a big pair, he must have a set/straight/AA/2pair.
Level 4: Even if he does have a draw, I'm not a big favorite against 9d8d or an ace high flush draw. I don't think he's ever playing QQ/JJ like this for value, all I'm really getting it in good against is some ridiculous bluff. I fold.
Level 5: He knew I would come to that conclusion, 4 high takes it down.


NH.

4/3/2007 6:12:17 PM

im glad someone posted a vid

anyone else think that benyamine went wayyy too far with talking there

i mean

ethically

4/3/2007 6:13:57 PM

Definately. He wasn't really talking about the hand one way or the other, but still. It's potentially a 600k pot, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

4/3/2007 6:21:04 PM

Can you hide your cards from the cameras? If I was a big shot I wouldn't want everyone to be able to go back and see what I had.

4/3/2007 6:41:38 PM

Jesus Christ Phil Ivey is a pussy.

4/3/2007 8:29:51 PM