The relevance is that a single, sleazy megalomaniac should not be in this position of power to release secret documents selectively, as he sees fit in order to embarrass and discredit his real and perceived enemies. Complain all you want about major media sources; at least they have an editorial process that extends past the whims and paranoid delusions of 1 man.

The greater concept of anonymous whistle-blower sites is a noble one, but the position of power that Assange has secured by acquiring state and organizational secrets is one which he has no business being in. His hypocrisy is evident everytime he ragequits an interview because someone dared to broach the subject of turmoil within his own organization or personal life.

12/21/2010 10:59:26 AM

Cool so there are improvements that could be made to an organization like Wikileaks.

Is there any reason that examination of Assange's character should overshadow the contents of the leaks?

12/21/2010 11:22:38 AM

Personal = public. He isn't releasing PERSONAL information he is releasing information about PUBLIC SERVANTS doing (or not doing as the case may be) THEIR JOBS. In other words government information is not at all analogous to personal information. If this is the strength of your argument you might be retarded.

^because it behooves governments for this information to become the primary focus. Really is pretty demeaning that they think the public is so easily distracted.

[Edited on December 21, 2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason : asdf]

12/21/2010 11:23:46 AM

Quote :

"Cool so there are improvements that could be made to an organization like Wikileaks. Is there any reason that examination of Assange's character should overshadow the contents of the leaks?"

Glad to see you've come around to the position that institutional deficiencies, while a legitimate concern, should not hinder our ability to see the bigger picture.

12/21/2010 11:31:53 AM

^^Please don't tell me that you are unaware that a lot of the recent releases have exposed embarrassing private information about public figures. And Assange is very much a public figure, having chosen to mug for the camera and level accusations of corruption and war crimes at every opportunity. Wikileaks has no moral authority over the organizations which he attempts to expose, and his personal life is facing the same scrutiny as that of other polarizing public figures.

[Edited on December 21, 2010 at 11:40 AM. Reason : 2]

12/21/2010 11:38:29 AM

So you are ok with governments purposefully leaking personal private information (or possibly making up information) to help draw the spotlight away from corruption and scandal in the government?

12/21/2010 11:57:13 AM

What corruption?

I haven't been following the leaks all that closely but most of the cables seem to be of the "American diplomats think the Swedish prime minister is really farty and blinks too much" variety.

[Edited on December 21, 2010 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ]

12/21/2010 12:00:29 PM

Ya, what corruption? Nothing to see here. Let's move along.

12/21/2010 2:05:46 PM

Just to name a few:

WikiLeaks disclosed 390,136 classified documents about the Iraq War and 76,607 about Afghanistan so far, one of which revealed another 15,000 civilian casualties in Iraq which had not been acknowledged or reported before;

Fragmentary orders [FRAGO] 242 and 039 instructed American troops not to investigate torture in Iraq conducted by America’s allies;

The CIA operates a secret army of 3,000 in Afghanistan;

A secret US Task Force 373 is assigned to nighttime hunter-killer raids in Afghanistan; 

The US ambassador in Kabul says it is impossible to fix corruption when our ally is the corrupt entity;

One Afghan minister alone carried $52 million out of the country; 

US Special Forces operate in Pakistan without public acknowledgement, in violation of that country’s sovereignty; 

America’s ally, Pakistan, is the chief protector of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Following secret U.S air strikes against suspected al-Qaeda militants, Yeme's President Ali Abdullah Saleh told General David Petraeus, "We'll continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours."

U.S. government contractor DynCorp threw a party for Afghan security recruits featuring trafficked boys as the entertainment. Bacha bazi is the Afghan tradition of "boy play" where young boys are dressed up in women's clothing, forced to dance for leering men, and then sold for sex to the highest bidder. DynCorp has been previously linked to child sex trafficking charges.

12/21/2010 3:47:59 PM

^you need to look up the definition of corruption

12/21/2010 4:33:54 PM

"moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles" I think everyone can agree this definition certainly fits.
How about "corruptness: lack of integrity or honesty" I certainly don't see any examples of that

Please continue trying to argue semantics though.

12/21/2010 6:13:14 PM

Haha fucking blind government supporters turning a blind eye to torture, sexual crimes, kidnapping, etc. as long as no 'corruption' took place.

Motherfucking monsters... wretched and sick.

12/21/2010 6:32:18 PM

lol

be more naive

12/21/2010 10:55:36 PM

So DynCorp is a bunch of perverted ass hats.

Nothing else there is shocking or corrupt. What else you got?

12/21/2010 10:56:17 PM

Haha the attention whore himself gets butthurt!

http://www.news.com.au/features/wikileaks/wikileaks-boss-julian-assange-turns-on-friends-and-foes/story-fn79cf6x-1225974366476

Quote :

"Speaking from the English mansion where he is confined on bail, the 39-year-old Australian said that the decision to publish incriminating police files about him was "disgusting"."

12/21/2010 11:18:22 PM

^^^

lol

be more disgusting


^^

did you see my 2 consecutive posts in the middle of page 13 about an innocent civilian being kidnapped from europe, flown to afghanistan, being tortured for 6 months, and upon realization that he is innocent and there has been a name mix up, being held further because now he knows too much, and then finally being dumped in europe by the side of a remote road without anything on him?

12/22/2010 4:18:53 AM

^ you're arguing with a couple of republicans. Do you think they care about minor annoyances like human rights violations (on brown people)?

If fox news tells them it's ok to care, then they will.

12/22/2010 10:07:29 AM

Quote :

"lol be more naive"

Naive? You are the one arguing against corruption in the government despite proof to the contrary.
Please continue trying to argue semantics though.

12/22/2010 10:36:12 AM

Quote :

"you're arguing with a couple of republicans. Do you think they care about minor annoyances like human rights violations (on brown people)? If fox news tells them it's ok to care, then they will."

12/22/2010 11:16:07 AM

Quote :

"indy All American 3529 Posts user info edit post"

Quote :

"© 2010 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved. The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University."

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 11:24 AM. Reason : lazarus - inbox - logout - settings]

12/22/2010 11:23:33 AM

lol - I'm no where close to a republican. oh, and I have never watched fox news

but really, it's nice that you think you're so enlightened that you can pigeonhole someone who doesn't believe what you believe and automatically dismiss them. well done, you're no better than the fucksticks on fox news whom you loathe

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 11:26:04 AM

Quote :

"did you see my 2 consecutive posts in the middle of page 13 about an innocent civilian being kidnapped from europe, flown to afghanistan, being tortured for 6 months, and upon realization that he is innocent and there has been a name mix up, being held further because now he knows too much, and then finally being dumped in europe by the side of a remote road without anything on him?"

nope. didnt see that. also unfortunate.

but hey, he was brown.

12/22/2010 11:47:37 AM

Good to know that American taxpayer dollars being funneled into child sex slavery is "nothing shocking or corrupt".

Jesus, what the fuck IS then?

12/22/2010 12:22:06 PM

Quote :

"lol - I'm no where close to a republican. oh, and I have never watched fox news"

I've watched Fox News. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't give you cooties. In fact, I TRY to watch it when I have the chance.

Regardless of how terrible it is, you can't change the fact that it matters. Personally I feel some sort of responsibility to better identify why my grandma all of a sudden thinks that our president was born in Kenya.

12/22/2010 12:43:08 PM

a government contractor is not part of the government. if it was, they'd just be called "the government."

is it bad that shit like child slavery/sex/whatever have you goes on in the world? of course it is - no one is arguing that that shit is OK. but it's not no more indicative of corruption in our government than a SYSCO truck driver spending his check for delivering cans of lima beans to the white house on hookers and blow

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 12:50 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 12:46:00 PM

If they are being paid by the government to perform a duty for the government, then the government is still accountable.

Unless you're also one of those people who believe that Butch Davis shouldn't be accountable for all of the shit that went down under his watch since, you know, it was other guys doing the bad stuff.

12/22/2010 2:05:19 PM

The government is no more responsible for their contractors than I am for the guy who repaved my driveway then molested my neighbor's pets.

12/22/2010 2:24:48 PM

well sure, in that case he would have to be molesting while on the job, you would have to know about the molesting and continue to hire said molester, then yea, same thing...

12/22/2010 2:37:59 PM

Of course. Those are additional circumstances though.

Are those circumstances relevant to the DynCorp situation?

12/22/2010 3:16:11 PM

Quote :

"Unless you're also one of those people who believe that Butch Davis shouldn't be accountable for all of the shit that went down under his watch since, you know, it was other guys doing the bad stuff."

not really. it would be more like punishing the entire North Carolina University system because of what happened on the UNC football team. More akin to calling NC State, UNCW, et al corrupt because of what a related, but wholly independent entity did.

maybe that's a bit off...maybe it would be more like calling the entire government of the state of North Carolina corrupt because of what the football team did...yeah, that's probably closer to it.

in either case, that's plain dumb

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 3:25:41 PM

Quote :

"Glad to see you've come around to the position that institutional deficiencies, while a legitimate concern, should not hinder our ability to see the bigger picture."

Cool when are you going to see it then?

Quote :

"What corruption? I haven't been following the leaks all that closely"

lol

Quote :

"lol - I'm no where close to a republican. oh, and I have never watched fox news but really, it's nice that you think you're so enlightened that you can pigeonhole someone who doesn't believe what you believe and automatically dismiss them. well done, you're no better than the fucksticks on fox news whom you loathe"

Wow congrats you're that stupid all an your own, what an accomplishment

Quote :

"a government contractor is not part of the government. if it was, they'd just be called "the government.""

I suppose the contracts the government enters into has nothing to do with the government either.

You're pointing out why using contractors works so well. Or, you're trolling by posting unbelievably stupid shit

Quote :

"is it bad that shit like child slavery/sex/whatever have you goes on in the world? of course it is - no one is arguing that that shit is OK. but it's not no more indicative of corruption in our government than a SYSCO truck driver spending his check for delivering cans of lima beans to the white house on hookers and blow"

You need to look at yourself in the mirror for a solid five minutes

Quote :

"Of course. Those are additional circumstances though. Are those circumstances relevant to the DynCorp situation?"

Is this a real question? Why don't you find out?

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 3:25:44 PM

I can look in myself in the mirror because I'm not some naive message board poster and have instead been in the middle of shit that you all so flippantly talk about. i feel sorry for people like you who get blinded by shit like wikileaks and/or are fooled into thinking they suddenly have an educated opinion because of what someone does under the guise of altruism.

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 3:31:54 PM

Alright let's see what we have here:

Quote :

"I can look in myself in the mirror because I'm not some naive message board poster and have instead been in the middle of shit that you all so flippantly talk about."

Then why don't you have an opinion that even approaches reasonable? Also, why isn't your opinion backed up by fact? You're confused and ignorant of a truckload of basic facts; what are we supposed to conclude?

Sentence 1: declare personal authority, backed up by no evidence, and corroborated by no knowledge of the facts. Conservatives will latch onto the self-granting of authority and ignore your general cluelessness.

Quote :

"i feel sorry for people like you who get blinded by shit like wikileaks and/or are fooled into thinking they suddenly have an educated opinion because of what someone does under the guise of altruism."

Insofar as I can work this retarded pile of dogshit into a truth-evaluable proposition, you're wrong. Assange isn't doing this altruistically, obviously. This has been shown over and over again. Smart people realize it doesn't fucking matter WHY he's doing what he's doing.

Also, education on this matter is nothing more than exposure to the information being presented. The information you likely have never looked at, even once. The best part is, you know this even though you will continue to put up a weak, flimsy front to save e-face. Who's the nerd now?

Sentence 2: incoherent

Quote :

"every one of your witty quips just further expose your ignorance of the fundamentals of this situation."

Sentence 3: declare victory

You can look yourself in the mirror because nobody's home.

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 3:38:37 PM

Quote :

"Of course. Those are additional circumstances though. Are those circumstances relevant to the DynCorp situation?"

Considering these facts were in government documents I think it would be a little naive to believe that our government wasn't cognizant of what was going on here? Using the oh so wonderful driveway paver analogy. This would be like him sending you images of him raping pets while paving your driveway and you completely ignoring it and paying him for a job well done. I guess government sponsored molestation of young boys is part of getting the job done isn't it?

12/22/2010 4:00:47 PM

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but didn't the information around Dyncorp reveal that our diplomats were appalled and refused to suppress the story at the request of the information minister?

That the DynCorp employees involved were terminated?

That Afghan police forces arrested 2 police officers as well as 9 other individuals for facilitating the whole dancing boy thing?

That the minister who tried to get it covered up was later fired?

And wasn't this information reported in the Washington Post over a year ago ? (seriously - if there's anything that a clearer indication of the ignorance of those who are outraged about this it's the fact that it took wikileaks to bring this to light instead of an article written in a major news source 18 months ago)

Oh, lemme guess, those aren't the "real" facts - can you please point me to the truckload of them I'm missing?

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 4:20:17 PM

Quote :

"BobbyDigital: ^ you're arguing with a couple of republicans. Do you think they care about minor annoyances like human rights violations (on brown people)? "

Sadly, you are right. The only way I can interpret goalielax intentionally ignoring innocent civilians having been abducted and tortured, even when I have pointed it out in several posts in the last few pages, is that he himself took part in raping/torturing/killing innocent civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan/whatever brown people's country he went to to get off.

This soulless barbarian is his best buddy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340207/I-didnt-think-Iraqis-humans-says-U-S-soldier-raped-14-year-old-girl-killing-her-family.html

12/22/2010 5:15:51 PM

Quote :

"Assange isn't doing this altruistically, obviously. This has been shown over and over again. Smart people realize it doesn't fucking matter WHY he's doing what he's doing."

He's doing it for his own glorification. He wants people like you to think of him as some sort of "V" type hero. I do question his motives and believe they compromise his integrity. If you want more oversight and transparency then demand it, don't count on the Kim Kardashian of intelligence to give them to you. If he had any real journalistic integrity, he would have read through the cables and looked for instances of corruption and called them out, and not just posted the entire thing.

12/22/2010 5:18:29 PM

Quote :

"If he had any real journalistic integrity, he would have read through the cables and looked for instances of corruption and called them out, and not just posted the entire thing."

And then people would have complained of "cherry picking" or things being "taken out of context".

12/22/2010 5:36:47 PM

Quote :

"Perhaps I'm mistaken, but didn't the information around Dyncorp reveal that our diplomats were appalled and refused to suppress the story at the request of the information minister? That the DynCorp employees involved were terminated? That Afghan police forces arrested 2 police officers as well as 9 other individuals for facilitating the whole dancing boy thing? That the minister who tried to get it covered up was later fired? And wasn't this information reported in the Washington Post over a year ago ? (seriously - if there's anything that a clearer indication of the ignorance of those who are outraged about this it's the fact that it took wikileaks to bring this to light instead of an article written in a major news source 18 months ago) Oh, lemme guess, those aren't the "real" facts - can you please point me to the truckload of them I'm missing?"

I don't even know where to fucking start, but I'm not spending the time to write you an essay you aren't going to read

get fucked i'll see you when the civil war starts

12/22/2010 6:05:44 PM

i'm sorry, is anything there that I posted in contradiction to any of the known facts about the dyncorp case? perhaps instead of an essay you could simply provide me links refuting anything I stated there. I mean cold hard facts, not your opinion in essay form. and when I say this, again, i'm in no way condoning the actions of dyncorps...never have. my point was that what they did is not government corruption. it's their corruption.

as far as OPEIII is concerned...where did I say that I was ignoring anything? my response was specifically directed at the list of "corruption" that pupils posted. I don't condone raping, killing, or torturing of any innocent civilians. it saddens me every time there is collateral damage and casualties in this asymmetric war we're fighting (oops, sorry, I mean collateral MURDER ) I have stood vehemently opposed to our incursion into Iraq (even while in uniform) after we learned the truth behind the invasion. I will never forgive Bush, Powell, et al for lying to the citizens and the world about our reasons for invading.

you guys want to say shit like "argue semantics" or dismiss stuff and call someone stupid or a murderer or whatever makes it easy for you not to have to engage those with differing opinions (opinions that probably aren't all that horribly different from your own if you'd take the time to actually discuss instead of accuse). yeah, I think hunter/killer squads sent to kill or capture the heads of the taliban and terrorist forces are ok. you don't. fine. that doesn't mean I'm cool with it when they target someone and instead kill innocents. people should pay for that.

but in reality, you're no better than the fox news', sarah palin's, and dick cheney's of the world. you'd rather put words into someone's mouth and summarily dismiss them than have to engage an opinion that isn't in lock-step with your own. you want to claim such righteous indignation about all of this shit, but you're awful quick to cop out and spray rhetoric

[Edited on December 22, 2010 at 6:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2010 6:37:46 PM

Quote :

"And then people would have complained of "cherry picking" or things being "taken out of context"."

Sure like when dicknix complained about deepthroat

12/22/2010 6:52:10 PM

United Nations to Investigation U.S.A. for Torture
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/23/un-treatment-leaks-bradley-manning

12/22/2010 11:47:54 PM

Investigationing us again?!?! BLAST!

Quote :

"Manning's supporters say that he is in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day; this could be construed as a form of torture."

Ah.

12/23/2010 8:21:40 AM

Quote :

"as far as OPEIII is concerned...where did I say that I was ignoring anything?"

Quote :

"did you see my 2 consecutive posts in the middle of page 13 about an innocent civilian being kidnapped from europe, flown to afghanistan, being tortured for 6 months, and upon realization that he is innocent and there has been a name mix up, being held further because now he knows too much, and then finally being dumped in europe by the side of a remote road without anything on him?"

Quote :

"Sure like when dicknix complained about deepthroat "

Considering some of you have already been bitching and moaning about "cherry picking" IN THIS THREAD

12/23/2010 9:17:00 AM

Quote :

"I will never forgive Bush, Powell, et al for lying to the citizens and the world about our reasons for invading."

12/23/2010 5:37:35 PM

Details of Manning's Torture Revealed
http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/12/23/bradley-manning-speaks-about-his-conditions/

Laugh if you want, but they can't label Manning an enemy combatant. This is a modern day equivalent of the king's dungeon, a clear example of a country punishing its citizens without trial. Minor though his torture may be, this is a case with legal merit.

[Edited on December 23, 2010 at 8:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/23/2010 7:48:15 PM

He can't watch international news channels, exercise regularly or read the newspaper, so that constitutes torture?

Oh, I'm sorry, i see it now. his blankets aren't soft enough. OH THE INJUSTICE!

Get outta here with that weak-ass shit.

12/23/2010 9:51:50 PM

exactly. dude is lucky he doesn't have a bullet in his head at this point

12/23/2010 9:59:12 PM

If you don't see anything wrong with what is alleged in that article you are truly fucked in the head. I don't care if it is minor, it isn't right. Designating some bullshit POI order and then lying about how you are treating a prisoner are prime examples of why people don't trust this government. The only thing that has probably saved him from some serious torture is the fact that he is relatively high profile.

More interesting allegations:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/09/manning
It is so nice to see homeland security working so hard to protect us from "terrorists"

[Edited on December 23, 2010 at 10:07 PM. Reason : asdfsd]

12/23/2010 10:03:37 PM

awww, that poor little gay kid with blankets that scratch his delicate skin.

The mind boggles at how he got into the military in the first place...

12/23/2010 10:21:34 PM