Quote :

"i don't see anyone here doing that, either."

Oh really?

So who here other than me thinks that Zimmerman COULD be totally justified in what he did and did nothing illegal and did not kill that kid in cold blood. Anyone?

Now I'm not saying thats the case, but it could be since we don't know.

I have an open mind about this where as most people already assume he is guilty.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ,]

3/22/2012 5:35:26 PM

Quote :

"It's also entirely possible that Zimmerman got out and tried to grab Trayvon, causing Trayvon to try and run away, yet he couldn't, because Zimmerman had a hold of him, so Trayvon fought to get loose. We've still got a whole hell of a gap between "I followed him in my car" to "I got out of my car and somehow got in a scuffle with the kid". "

Not really, since Zimmerman is on the phone the entire time and he first states that the kid is running then you hear his door open and him exit the car.

I'm no expert, but I would bet that if Zimmerman has tried to grab him or anything, that we would at least hear a faint trace of Trayvon on that phone call since Zimmerman was on the phone the entire time and it was recorded, yet we don't.

3/22/2012 5:37:41 PM

false dilemma. There are other lines of thought between "Zimmerman killed him in cold blood" and "Zimmerman was totally justified".


^ OK, so Trayvon tried to run away when he saw he was being followed. then, Zimmerman, inexplicably, gets out and chases him... Zimmerman's a policeman, right? oh wait, no

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:37:59 PM

Ok, maybe not justified, but did nothing illegal.

3/22/2012 5:38:29 PM

Quote :

"Go to a gated community at night every time it rains for the next year and tell me how many people you see walking around."

This kid was out walking at night in a gated community, and in fact, it was the very same gated community, at the same time, and like 50 yards away from where Martin got shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AySYPMy1Ejw#!

3/22/2012 5:38:56 PM

clearly that was Trayvon's accomplice in committing burglaries. on foot. in the rain.

3/22/2012 5:41:28 PM

tacolu, these academic liberals chased off the rest of the people who disagreed with their calls for a good old fashioned lynching, might as well give up - they're looking for blood, not reasoning

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2012 5:41:32 PM

you hear that, aaranburro? you're a stuffy, academic, big book learnin' librul.

3/22/2012 5:42:19 PM

Quote :

"I'm pissed because a lot of these people are just jumping to the conclusion that he gunned him down in cold blood without any solid evidence to prove it or without even considering other alternatives to how things went down."

also, what's hilarious here is that you're pissed that people aren't considering any alternatives, whereas you think it was completely normal for Zimmerman not to consider any alternative other than "this dirty nigger is the criminal who has been robbing our houses!!!" that's like all-star levels of cognitive dissonance

3/22/2012 5:44:07 PM

Quote :

"Ok, maybe not justified, but did nothing illegal."

Are you telling me that if I go to Florida I can stalk, assault, and ultimately kill random people?

Wanna meet me in Tampa?

3/22/2012 5:44:09 PM

Quote :

"^ OK, so Trayvon tried to run away when he saw he was being followed. then, Zimmerman, inexplicably, gets out and chases him... Zimmerman's a policeman, right? oh wait, no "

Based on the recording, it hardly sounds like he is chasing Trayvon.

Quote :

"This kid was out walking at night in a gated community, and in fact, it was the very same gated community, at the same time, and like 50 yards away from where Martin got shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AySYPMy1Ejw#! "

That is basically worthless from an evidence stand point.

He says that he saw someone on the ground, and heard someone calling for help.

Which basically means it could have been Zimmerman or Trayvon.

He doesn't identify anyone.

3/22/2012 5:44:44 PM

bring a hoodie, some skittles, and a bottle of tea

3/22/2012 5:44:52 PM

Quote :

"Are you telling me that if I go to Florida I can stalk, assault, and ultimately kill random people? Wanna meet me in Tampa?"

Nope but if you are following someone, and they inturn attack you, you have every right to protect yourself with deadly force if necessary.

Not making this up, its the law in Florida.

3/22/2012 5:45:53 PM

Quote :

"Based on the recording, it hardly sounds like he is chasing Trayvon."

so, then, he didn't chase him, but Trayvon ran away, yet Zimmerman had to shoot Trayvon in order to defend himself. did Trayvon run all the way around the earth in a few seconds so that he was right back on top of Zimmerman?

Quote :

"That is basically worthless from an evidence stand point."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. you completely ignored the point of that post. you know what that point was? well, it's basically exactly what was written in the post: "other people walk around in the neighborhood and were, in fact, doing it on that very night".

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:46:05 PM

Quote :

"Based on the recording, it hardly sounds like he is chasing Trayvon."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2udltmR3RY

Yes, clearly Trayvon only told his girlfriend that he was being stalked so he could pre-frame Zimmerman for his own murder. The perfect crime, all it needed was someone to commit it.

3/22/2012 5:47:14 PM

Quote :

"That is basically worthless from an evidence stand point. "

It's actually pretty good evidence that people walk outside in the evening.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ^^ always posting second]

3/22/2012 5:47:38 PM

hahahaha.

3/22/2012 5:48:01 PM

Quote :

"so, then, he didn't chase him, but Trayvon ran away, yet Zimmerman had to shoot Trayvon in order to defend himself. did Trayvon run all the way around the earth in a few seconds so that he was right back on top of Zimmerman? "

Not saying this is what happened, but is this entirely possible:

Zimmerman is following Trayvon who he thinks is a criminal based on the suspicious behavior and the fleeing. At this point it doesnt matter if Trayvon was suspicious or not.

While trying to identify the location of Trayvon to inform police of his location, Trayvon, thinking that Zimmerman is also a criminal and trying to cause him harm, attacks Zimmerman.

So, during the confusion Zimmerman shoots Trayvon in self defense for whatever reason there might be,.


Is this at ALL possible to you? Because since we dont know, and might never know what happened, based on the evidence we do, it seems HIGHLY likely, that this COULD have happened.

3/22/2012 5:50:43 PM

Troll ignores evidence

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:52 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:51:05 PM

Quote :

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. you completely ignored the point of that post. you know what that point was? well, it's basically exactly what was written in the post: "other people walk around in the neighborhood and were, in fact, doing it on that very night"."

But thats not the reason that that video was made.

Now someone outside walking their dog is a different story. They have a visible reason to do so.

Quote :

"Troll ignores evidence"

Oh REALLY?? What evidence am I missing guy?

3/22/2012 5:54:06 PM

"Fleeing" ahahahaa

I'll remember this next time I'm walking down a dark alley and someone starts following me, I better not walk faster or that suspicious behavior would entitle that person to kill me!

3/22/2012 5:54:23 PM

He wasn't in a dark alley though, he was in a gated neighborhood.

Nice try though.

3/22/2012 5:55:01 PM

Quote :

"At this point it doesnt matter if Trayvon was suspicious or not."

except to show that Zimmerman never should have followed the kid in the first place. but, go on...

Quote :

"While trying to identify the location of Trayvon to inform police of his location, Trayvon, thinking that Zimmerman is also a criminal and trying to cause him harm, attacks Zimmerman. So, during the confusion Zimmerman shoots Trayvon in self defense for whatever reason there might be,."

So, then, what you've got, is Zimmerman puts himself in a situation to get attacked by doing something he shouldn't have done and acting threatening to someone else. the other person responds by trying to protect himself, so Zimmerman can then shoot the guy dead. brilliant fucking logic, dude. brilliant.

Quote :

"Is this at ALL possible to you? Because since we dont know, and might never know what happened, based on the evidence we do, it seems HIGHLY likely, that this COULD have happened."

is it possible? sure. does that excuse Zimmerman? absofuckinglutely not. his self-defense case immediately disappears the moment we see that he instigated it. let's see, he followed a kid for no reason. he then got out of his car and chased the kid. BOTH of those remove any claim of self-defense. keep on doing your best matlock impersonation, making up wild theories. meanwhile, we'll talk about how the fucker never should have gotten into his car and followed a kid to begin with

Quote :

"But thats not the reason that that video was made."

But it IS the reason it was posted here just now. to show that other people walk around in that neighborhood, and were doing so at exactly the time you say that "Trayvon was being suspicious by doing what no one else does".

Quote :

"He wasn't in a dark alley though, he was in a gated neighborhood."

there's that gate again. this must be some magical gate that prevents anyone from ever walking. except for the guy in the video up there who was walking.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:55:26 PM

ok tacolu youve had your time

3/22/2012 5:55:40 PM

How does that even make a difference? You're seriously trying to suggest that trying to get further away from a total stranger pursuing you at night is suspicious behavior?

3/22/2012 5:56:01 PM

ok tacolu youve had your time

3/22/2012 5:58:20 PM

Quote :

"So, then, what you've got, is Zimmerman puts himself in a situation to get attacked by doing something he shouldn't have done and acting threatening to someone else. the other person responds by trying to protect himself, so Zimmerman can then shoot the guy dead. brilliant fucking logic, dude. brilliant."

So if there has been a bank robery, I hear it on the news in my car while driving down the street.

I think I see the suspect based on the description, and decide to follow him so I can let the cops know where the suspect is.

Turns out that this is not the suspect, and while follow this person they become aware of me following them, and pull a knife on me to defend themselves, me thinking that the robber is attacking me, pulls out my gun and shoots them.

Can you understand how this can just be one big fuck up?

And ACCORDING TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA IT IS JUSTIFIABLE.

3/22/2012 6:00:13 PM

Seriously? Does that make ANY sense to you at all?

Lets also say that I am white, and the presumed suspect is black, which really doesnt change anything.

Can you understand that this is a totally possible, legal, and justifiable situation in the eyes of the law in Florida?

3/22/2012 6:04:28 PM

no, it's NOT justifiable according to the state of florida. it has just been ignored by the police department. you are equating "we're not gonna do our jobs because it's just a black kid" with "the state says it's OK". the state hasn't even had a chance to have their say because the police tried to sweep it under the rug.


and, if you follow a car because you think they are bank robbers, then
1) you are a fucking moron
2) you are a fucking moron
3) you are a fucking moron
4) you can't claim self-defense because you were a fucking moron.


if you see the suspect, you know what you do? YOU CALL THE FUCKING COPS. that's it. you don't follow him. you certainly don't chase him. you call the fucking cops, and that is where your involvement ends. you know why you call the cops? because it's their job to chase criminals, not yours.

what you are trying to say is that you can ignore the circumstances leading up to a violent incident and just look at the violence within a convenient bubble. that's crazy. when we look further, we see that Zimmerman specifically took actions that, had he not taken them, would have meant no altercation. The actions he took, while lawful, were unnecessary, and they were actions that go beyond the bounds of him just living his life and doing whatever. He specifically took actions that escalated the situation. That means his claim of "self-defense" disappears.

3/22/2012 6:07:58 PM

aww that last call is real sad

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 6:08 PM. Reason : po]

3/22/2012 6:08:20 PM

It's one big fuck up.

That is your fault.

Because you instigated it.

Because you're not a police officer, and so the person you confronted has no idea who you are or what your intentions are.

3/22/2012 6:08:38 PM

I guess that Trayvon should have stopped when he was being followed, approached the stranger, and presented his papers declaring himself as a free negro.

3/22/2012 6:09:03 PM

exactly. i mean, he's visiting someone in a neighborhood in a different state. surely he should see what this random person who has been following him wants, because he probably knows that guy, right?

3/22/2012 6:11:42 PM

Hold on.

HOLD ON.

There is a shady looking guy outside my apartment complex. I've never seen him before. He is wearing a hoodie and sweatpants and I think GANG colors. Let me go get my loaded gun, go outside and point it at him.

Also I am not racist, I have Black friends.

3/22/2012 6:13:00 PM

be right back, call the cops if I don't come back in 5 min

3/22/2012 6:13:21 PM

Okay, well. I'm back. I went over to him and confronted him and he seemed confused, but I think he was just trying to trick me cause that's what they always do. He cursed at me and then ran so I had no choice but to follow him. I shot him and now he's dead. Looks like that's one less criminal on the streets.

3/22/2012 6:16:17 PM

tacolu, I'm sorry, but yes, that is a fuckup on your part. If you want to stalk and murder innocent black youths you'll have to go to the police academy first like the rest of us.

3/22/2012 6:17:39 PM

Maybe if Trayvon had hadn't been in a hoodie and jean...and was in a shirt and tie instead
Maybe...just maybe if he was driving a mercedes....maybe
Maybe he wouldn't have looked so suspicious. Maybe he wouldn't have been mistaken for a crook

3/22/2012 6:30:08 PM

Quote :

"I have an open mind about this where as most people already assume he is guilty."

Nah...there were a couple more "open minded" people like you when the story first came out. As more evidence is released, you're pretty much the only one left standing in your little circle of dumb. But carry on, it's slightly amusing to watch.

3/22/2012 6:31:56 PM

Quote :

"aww that last call is real sad http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html"

That is sad. I'd like to see tacolu explain these away. Sound like Zimmerman was being attacked to you? Or the one doing the attacking?

3/22/2012 6:33:18 PM

tacolu is the kind of guy who, when presented with the following evidence:

-flirty texts
-hotel receipt
-missing condom from condom package

would say that it's entirely plausible, and possible, that the guy was just meeting his female coworker to go over the latest reports, and that he did not sleep with her, and we should trust his word and not rush to judgment.

3/22/2012 6:39:33 PM

Quote :

"Nah...there were a couple more "open minded" people like you when the story first came out. As more evidence is released, you're pretty much the only one left standing in your little circle of dumb. But carry on, it's slightly amusing to watch. "

Once again, what "evidence".

Asked a few other people to post it and they haven't.

So, what EVIDENCE am I missing that shows I am wrong?

3/22/2012 6:48:20 PM

You fucking idiot.

A DEAD UNARMED BODY

WITNESSES

MULTIPLE 911 CALLS

A MOTHERFUCKING CONFESSION FROM THE KILLER

3/22/2012 6:50:31 PM

Quote :

"and, if you follow a car because you think they are bank robbers, then 1) you are a fucking moron 2) you are a fucking moron 3) you are a fucking moron 4) you can't claim self-defense because you were a fucking moron. if you see the suspect, you know what you do? YOU CALL THE FUCKING COPS. that's it. you don't follow him. you certainly don't chase him. you call the fucking cops, and that is where your involvement ends. you know why you call the cops? because it's their job to chase criminals, not yours. what you are trying to say is that you can ignore the circumstances leading up to a violent incident and just look at the violence within a convenient bubble. that's crazy. when we look further, we see that Zimmerman specifically took actions that, had he not taken them, would have meant no altercation. The actions he took, while lawful, were unnecessary, and they were actions that go beyond the bounds of him just living his life and doing whatever. He specifically took actions that escalated the situation. That means his claim of "self-defense" disappears."

While it might make you a moron, it's not illegal and you would have the right to defend yourself in the situation I described.

Quote :

"what you are trying to say is that you can ignore the circumstances leading up to a violent incident and just look at the violence within a convenient bubble. that's crazy. when we look further, we see that Zimmerman specifically took actions that, had he not taken them, would have meant no altercation. The actions he took, while lawful, were unnecessary, and they were actions that go beyond the bounds of him just living his life and doing whatever. He specifically took actions that escalated the situation. That means his claim of "self-defense" disappears."

Also, if Trayvon hadn't ran, then none of this would have likely happened.

See, once again, it can go both ways.

Zimmerman had every right to follow someone he thought might have committed a crime in order to direct the police to their where abouts. This is not illegal and all the time citizens get awards for this shit when its an actual criminal.

You are just looking at it as Zimmerman knew he was chasing an innocent kid just because he was black and not realizing at the time of the incident, he thought he was chasing a criminal.

As I've said, if it were this simple, he would have been arrested by now, which he hasn't.

3/22/2012 6:52:32 PM

yo, terpball.... I saw this suspicious black dude walking around the other day. I was 5 seconds away from popping a cap in his ass too.


Then I realized I was just looking at my reflection in a glass door down in Dupont Circle. Man...that would have been fucking embarrassing.






Still, I feel the neighborhood is safer now

3/22/2012 6:54:32 PM

Quote :

"You fucking idiot. A DEAD UNARMED BODY WITNESSES MULTIPLE 911 CALLS A MOTHERFUCKING CONFESSION FROM THE KILLER"

Dead unnarmed body? Yes, we know that now, but at the time Zimmerman did not know. Like I said, during the altercation perhaps Trayvon was going for his cell phone and Zimmerman mistook it for a gun and shot him in self defense.

Witnesses? Oh really? What witnesses are these that saw the shooting happen? As far as Ive read, nobody saw it happen, which is part of the cluster fuck, so what are these witnesses that you speak of?

911 calls, yep, there sure are, even Zimmerman made one himself. Another one describes someone yelling for help, which can neither be identified as ZImmerman or Trayvon.

Confessions? Yep, Zimmerman isn't denying that he shot and killed the kid.

What's your point?

3/22/2012 6:55:55 PM

This thread gets worse by the minute

3/22/2012 6:58:04 PM

Yeah, Trayvon had no reason to run. It's not like some guy with a gun was fucking chasing him or anything.


^^all of that leads to a situation where I could shoot you in the face, kill you, and claim self defense.

3/22/2012 6:58:22 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, Trayvon had no reason to run. It's not like some guy with a gun was fucking chasing him or anything."

Trayvon didn't know he had a gun as far as we know at this point.

And as Ive pointed out, Zimmerman was still in his car with 911 when Trayvon took off running.

So this whole "OMG the dude had a gun and was racist, Trayvon had every reason to run" argument is basically null and void.

3/22/2012 7:00:17 PM

Quote :

"^^all of that leads to a situation where I could shoot you in the face, kill you, and claim self defense."

Yep, and thats the fucked up part.

Hell, I'm not saying thats what happened. It very well might have.

I'm pissed at the people that are just automatically calling for this guys head for "shooting an innocent child" without even considering that there might be another story.

All they are hearing is "White guy shoots black unarmed teenager" and don't even know most of the facts or even consider there might be a logical reason or that it was a plausable accident.

And lets just not even care that the guy wasn't white but is hispanic, but that wouldnt be as racist to the media who started this whole hooplah to begin with.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:03 PM. Reason : ,.]

3/22/2012 7:01:31 PM