they have assets in American banks...

9/28/2016 3:59:44 PM

so some random judge can start an international incident by awarding John Smith 10 million dollars?

9/28/2016 4:13:48 PM

Never expected to see TWW so concerned over protecting Saudi Arabia's concerns. Can't say I'm not surprised.

9/28/2016 4:48:24 PM

I'm all for telling the Saudi's to fuck off for any number of reasons. I'd much rather be allied with Iran if we have to pick between the two.

However, this seems like a pretty poorly thought out law that is just going to lead to similar treatment of the US by foreign nationals. I mean, we've killed plenty of non-combatants all over the world in the last 15 years.

9/28/2016 4:48:40 PM

Quote :

"Never expected to see TWW so concerned over protecting Saudi Arabia's concerns. Can't say I'm not surprised."

You're being pretty retarded about this. It's not about protecting Saudi's concerns. It's about the implications, which you don't seem to understand, even though it's been thoroughly explained. But it's not that hard. Of course, you've never seemed very reasonable in Sports Talk.

(Also, you say you never expected TWW to be concerned, but then you say you're not surprised.... that doesn't make sense either)

[Edited on September 28, 2016 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ]

9/28/2016 4:54:13 PM

If you're an ex-pat or business abroad you can already likely be sued by another individual in Another country (assuming their justice system is somewhat similar to the US). If you're worried that KSA (or others) will harass expats or businesses **shrug** that's one of the major risks of living/doing business abroad. Must sensible expats I know understand this.

If you're afraid KSA will attempt to seize USA assets, the resulting drain of US private assets and US Aid money, weapon deals, etc would likely send their shit into a recession (they are already spending reserves to balance their budget, thanks cheap oil!!!)

If you're afraid they might harass US diplomats then you will see the same drain and a deterioration of relations. I don't give a fuck about that either because, as others have pointed out, we have more logical friends in the region anyways. Ending relations with them is a direct segue to US energy independence meaning we can get the fuck out of that god forsaken region with the exception of drone strikes on all the god damn terrorists and terroeist sympathizers that make up a majority of that sandy shit hole.






I mean seriously, fuck KSA and the camel they rode in on. They are rapidly losing every card that used to keep them in the fold. It's past time to say "Bye Felicia"

[Edited on September 28, 2016 at 9:04 PM. Reason : Economic might is the big stick of the 21st century. MOST countries in the world need the US]

9/28/2016 9:00:52 PM

I don't think Saudi Arabia has anything to worry about really, it seems it would be impossible to prove their government was legally liable. Maybe they could find a specific person, but this still wouldn't be a significant number of asserts that would be captured here.

I'm more interested to how this would work the other way around... if we were sued for drone bombings and lost, what happens then? Seems like we'd refuse to pay and they would have to compel the Pakistani gov to seize military assets in Pakistan? I don't see their gov complying. Worst case scenario we pull the drones out, but this is a good scenario.

So I realize it's a possible minefield but I'm willing to see how allowing these suits plays out. Lawsuits, despite conventional rhetoric, are a good accountability mechanism.

9/28/2016 9:16:50 PM

Quote :

"Lawsuits, despite conventional rhetoric, are a good accountability mechanism"

QFT. I may need to reference this statement in future discussions.

9/28/2016 9:55:59 PM

Sigh.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/mitch-mcconnell-saudi-9-11-bill-228903

Quote :

"Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Thursday that a new law allowing U.S. victims of terrorism to sue foreign governments may have “unintended ramifications,” despite Congress’s overwhelming vote this week to defy President Barack Obama’s veto of the legislation. Though Obama’s veto of the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act was easily overridden, many senators are seeking changes to the law later this year, particularly after gauging any international reaction. McConnell laid some fault at the hands of the White House, calling the battle over JASTA a “good example” of “failure to communicate early about the potential consequences” of a popular bill."

THANKS OBAMA, WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US THIS BILL WAS STUPID?????

9/29/2016 2:58:48 PM

It's an election year vote full of posturing and meaning nothing. I haven't checked, but when does this actually go into effect? This thing will get rolled back by new legislation as soon as these assholes are back as a new congress.

I'm sure McConnel was the 1 guy in the Senate who voted not to override the veto, right? Right? Huh Harry Reid was the lone no vote. Well, surely Tim Kaine took a stand one way or another and will have a lot to say about how a potential President Clinton might handle this issue. Oh, he abstained. Hmm.

9/29/2016 3:19:18 PM

That's a pretty bold statement for McConnell to make. How he's blaming the WH here is beyond me. But you have to admit, the cojones on that man must be impressive for him to say that.

Mc: Here's a bill. Sign it.

POTUS: I'm not signing it.

Mc: No really, here it is, sign it.

POTUS: Veto engaged

Mc: That's ok, we'll override that shit.

POTUS: ... ... ...

Mc: Hey, this is going to cause some problems. Why didn't you tell us about them?

[Edited on September 29, 2016 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ...]

9/29/2016 3:25:00 PM

It's Mitch McConnell being a ham-fisted dolt and of course trying to avoid any responsibility for ANYTHING. Why should that be surprising?

9/29/2016 7:55:14 PM

OK, I was way off on that one. WTF?

Anyway, Obama is continuing the assault on America's bathrooms. First, with allowing women in the men's bathroom, and now this. As a new father, the bathroom has become my one sanctuary of peace and quiet. No longer:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mens-restrooms-will-now-require-baby-changing-stations-thanks-obama_us_57fbe25ee4b068ecb5e0d3b0

Thanks, Obama.

10/10/2016 11:45:59 PM

- 25 million less uninsured

- longest consecutive streak of monthly job growth

- global climate change agreement

- caused the GOP to commit seppuku

- historically high approval ratings

- M-A-R-S MARS BITCHES



If there was such a thing as a credibility scale, he fucking broke it.

10/11/2016 11:46:15 AM

-Worst economic recovery from any recession in US history
-First president to not see a single year of 3% GDP growth
-Record number of Americans in poverty
-Record number of Americans on Welfare
-Record amount of national debt (like holy shit bad)
-Obamacare is about to fail, even Clinton called it crazy
-Left Iraq allowing power vacuum/ISIS. Foreign policy in general has been only bad.
-Race relations only made worse through his race-baiting

Honorable mention for most civilians killed by drone strikes, get that man another Nobel Peace Prize, hacks!

10/11/2016 7:32:54 PM

Obama's the greatest president of my lifetime and maybe ever but I haven't done the research to say that. he's still a piece of shit though.

10/11/2016 7:38:05 PM

^That explains your 8 year old logic.

Quote :

"If there was such a thing as a credibility scale, he fucking broke it."

Listen, I know I have been critical of Obama on this board, but that's mainly to provide some sort of balance. While I agree that he has done some good things domestically, and the economy is "good", you have to admit that his foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster unlike anything we've ever experienced.

[Edited on October 13, 2016 at 9:08 AM. Reason : I'd still take him over the 2 jokers we have running now.]

10/13/2016 9:06:57 AM

i'm going to assume you were in a coma from January 2001-January 2009

10/13/2016 12:24:05 PM

Bringing us to the brink of war with Russia? Check.

10/13/2016 12:41:18 PM

go on...

10/13/2016 12:49:17 PM

Opinion of Obama's foreign policy mostly comes down to how much blame you care to assign him for the Syrian civil war and subsequent rise of ISIS. Personally, I believe the Middle East's geopolitical importance has been waning for over a decade. Limiting our exposure there, despite the near term calamities it may have caused, was probably one of his smartest moves. Ending the Iranian nuclear threat and securing a global climate change agreement are far more important than what's going on in Iraq or Syria.

[Edited on October 13, 2016 at 1:37 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2016 1:35:09 PM

The war on ISIS has been littered with poor decisions. There is tons of literature on this, so you can read for yourself if you are so inclined. But just to name a few:

1) Initial underestimation of the effect of ISIS
2) Damaged relationship with our greatest NATO ally who is crucial to our interests in the ME.

And at least Bush can claim that his wars kept the battles out of the US. Obama's wars has not been as successful at keeping American's safe in their own country from terrorist attacks.

10/13/2016 2:49:06 PM

please, post said literature

10/13/2016 2:51:58 PM

Bush's policies kept the fight from US soil? Interesting conclusion

10/13/2016 2:53:29 PM

Quote :

"And at least Bush can claim that his wars kept the battles out of the US. Obama's wars has not been as successful at keeping American's safe in their own country from terrorist attacks."

Even if this were true (it's not), I'll take a handful of lone wolf attacks on our soil over thousands of dead or wounded Americans overseas. Not to mention the trillions of dollars wasted, the stain on our reputation abroad, the strain on our already overburdened VA system, etc.....

10/13/2016 2:59:27 PM

So now "trillions wasted" is a bad thing? Interesting. Yet dear leader is the best POTUS ever while increasing the national debt more than EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE PUT TOGETHER?

10/13/2016 3:02:22 PM

Quote :

"And at least Bush can claim that his wars kept the battles out of the US."

Somebody has a bad memory http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

10/13/2016 3:10:56 PM

Quote :

"please, post said literature"

I'll make it easy. You dont even have to read anything, except for maybe a few subtitles:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/rise-of-isis/

Quote :

"Even if this were true (it's not), I'll take a handful of lone wolf attacks on our soil over thousands of dead or wounded Americans overseas. Not to mention the trillions of dollars wasted, the stain on our reputation abroad, the strain on our already overburdened VA system, etc....."

^^^I am sure the victims and families in San Bernadino completely agree with you.

[Edited on October 13, 2016 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ^]

10/13/2016 3:14:56 PM

do you really think the San Bernadino attacks can be attributed to Obama? Do you really think another president would have somehow prevented it? The dude was born in America.

[Edited on October 13, 2016 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ]

10/13/2016 4:32:27 PM

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/prosecute-torturers-and-their-bosses.html

So much for making America great again. Trump says he will give a free pass to American operatives who have TORTURED people--including completely innocent Muslims--because "we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards."

Did I say Trump? I meant Obama.

10/13/2016 4:41:05 PM

Quote :

"December 21, 2014"

10/13/2016 5:10:47 PM

Earl'd

10/13/2016 7:32:11 PM

Nice!
Obama lifts all restrictions on Cuban rum, cigars
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/10/14/obama-cuba-regulations-expands-trade-travel-rum-cigars/92042662/

Oh yeah, and Obamacare continues it's painful death. But at least we get those tasty Cuban cigars!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-14/more-than-1-million-in-obamacare-to-lose-plans-as-insurers-quit

10/14/2016 9:17:52 AM

Let's remind everyone of the Obamacare doomsday predictions and how wrong they were:

Prediction : Millions of people would lose their health insurance

Fact: Under a million policies were cancelled by insurance companies, all in the individual market which was historically already very volatile. The employer health insurance market, which was also supposed to collapse, has proven to be remarkably stable. Roughly the same percentage of Americans are insured by their employers today as they were before the ACA.

Prediction: Premiums would rise astronomically

Fact: In the decade before the ACA, premiums were rising at roughly 7% per year. Since the ACA, premiums have risen at an average of 3% per year. The same can be applied to the cost of health care in general, which have risen at historically low rates since the ACA was passed

Prediction: The Obamacare exchange marketplace would go into a "death spiral"

Fact: 11 million people have acquired health insurance through the Obamacare exchanges. 80% of them receive subsidies to help them afford their premiums and are mostly satisfied with the plans they've enrolled in. Despite all the talk of massive rate hikes this year due to insurers leaving certain markets, this only applies to roughly 2 million out of the 11 million exchange enrollees. The "death spiral" will never happen.

Prediction: Obamacare would kill jobs and force employers to move full time workers into part time

Fact: This clearly didn't happen. We've seen the longest streak of monthly job growth ..... ever, and it's only accelerated since the Obamacare exchanges came online. There was also practically no effect on part time work.

These are just the greatest hits, and the only ones that were rooted in some version of reality. The rest could have been disproven just by reading the law 6 years ago and aren't worth debating.

[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 1:05 PM. Reason : one more]

10/14/2016 12:53:18 PM

I'll leave the discussion of the details of Obamacare to the Obamacare thread. For the purpose of Obama's credibility, I will refute all of your arguments with broken promises from Obama.

Quote :

"Fact: Under a million policies were cancelled by insurance companies, all in the individual market which was historically already very volatile. The employer health insurance market, which was also supposed to collapse, has proven to be remarkably stable. Roughly the same percentage of Americans are insured by their employers today as they were before the ACA."

Broken Obama promise:“If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.” - Obamacare has significantly disrupted the market for those who buy coverage on their own by imposing new coverage and benefit mandates, causing a reported 4.7 million health insurance cancelations of an existing policy in 32 states.
For those with employer-sponsored insurance in the group market, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that 7 million fewer people will have employment-based insurance by 2018.

Quote :

"Fact: In the decade before the ACA, premiums were rising at roughly 7% per year. Since the ACA, premiums have risen at an average of 3% per year. The same can be applied to the cost of health care in general, which have risen at historically low rates since the ACA was passed "

Broken Obama promise:“In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year.” - For people with employer-sponsored coverage, costs also continue to increase. For families, premiums from 2009 to 2013 have increased by an average of $2,976.

Quote :

"Fact: 11 million people have acquired health insurance through the Obamacare exchanges. 80% of them receive subsidies to help them afford their premiums and are mostly satisfied with the plans they've enrolled in. Despite all the talk of massive rate hikes this year due to insurers leaving certain markets, this only applies to roughly 2 million out of the 11 million exchange enrollees. The "death spiral" will never happen."

Broken Obama promise - OK, so I don't have a snappy quote, but obviously Obama wouldn't create a program he wanted to fail (or would he?). So let's just assume the broken Obama promise is Obamacare as a whole. Clearly insurers like Aetna, Anthem, Humana and UnitedHealth Group, once supporters, are pulling back from their participation for a reason. And its not because Obamacare is just too lucrative.

And just for good measure, a couple more broken Obama-care promises:
Broken Obama promise: “[T]hat means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.” - Reality: Many Americans might not be able to keep their current doctor without paying extra.

Broken Obama promise: “Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase.” - Reality: Obamacare contains 18 separate tax hikes, fees, and penalties, many of which heavily impact the middle class.

Broken Obama promise: “I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits—either now or in the future.” - Senate Budget Committee staff, who commissioned the GAO report, translated the 75-year percentage estimate into today’s dollar amount, which would be $6.2 trillion over the next 75 years.

Broken Obama promise: “[W]hatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill.”- Reality: Health spending is still rising and is projected to grow at an average rate of 5.8 percent from 2012 to 2022.

Broken Obama promise:“I will protect Medicare.” - Reality: Obamacare cuts Medicare spending that amount to over $700 billion from 2013 to 2022.

Broken Obama promise: “I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American.” - Reality - Obamacare is projected by the CBO to leave 31 million uninsured after a decade of full implementation.

Broken Obama promise: “So this law means more choice, more competition, lower costs for millions of Americans.” - Reality - In the vast majority of states, the number of insurers competing in the state’s exchange is actually less than the number of carriers that previously sold individual market policies in the state.

[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM. Reason : 1]

10/14/2016 1:26:31 PM

But at least we can enjoy those tasty Cuban cigars.

10/14/2016 1:27:38 PM

Dude, I think you have some misconception, I'm not debating or arguing with you. I post facts for people who are interested in the world outside of the right wing reality distortion field. You can feel free to ignore my posts and continue jerking off to long disproven talking points you've gleaned from Hannity and Rush.

Also, nothing I've posted is to say the law is perfect. Clearly it has problems that need to be addressed, namely the mechanisms designed to offset losses from insurers taking on too many sick enrollees have proven to be insufficient. Of course, you can blame Congress for blocking much of the funding for those mechanisms. The truth is, no reform this sweeping has ever gone without the need for subsequent tweaks and changes. Unfortunately, Republicans are only interested in seeing the law fail instead of actually helping people.

[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 1:45 PM. Reason : .]

10/14/2016 1:39:03 PM

Nice edit, slick.

Like I said, we can keep the details of the failed Obamacare to the obamacare thread. This thread is for discussing his failures and successes (Yay! Cuban Rum). Clearly the Obamacare that was promised is a failure and needs more than just some minor "tweaks and changes".

I would suggest you open your mind a little bit rather than write off any differing opinion as a right wing conspiracy. There are people a lot smarter than you and me who can see this death spiral. It would be foolish to ignore it. But then we could just post it in this thread when more of the exchange continues to collapse.

[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 1:56 PM. Reason : haha, got em.]

10/14/2016 1:42:09 PM

You didn't offer a single differing opinion. You offered long outdated CBO projections and out-of-context misquotes to support disproven talking points. I can't help you with that. I will say that it's exactly this sort of disinformation which led to rise of Donald Trump and the eventual collapse of the GOP. Enjoy!

10/14/2016 2:09:03 PM

What would it take for you to consider the ACA a failure?

10/14/2016 2:13:44 PM

A brain aneurysm? A stroke? Whatever debilitating mental condition you seem to be afflicted with?

10/14/2016 2:15:05 PM

So you are such a hack that you can't objectively judge the success or failure of a policy. It's simply Obama = good.

Please don't breed/vote

[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM. Reason : .]

10/14/2016 2:19:02 PM

Which would you diagnose Bill Clinton with?:

Quote :

"You’ve got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It’s the craziest thing in the world."

Or how about Krugman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=bahxnNX-lLA



[Edited on October 14, 2016 at 2:21 PM. Reason : Like I said, people a lot smarter than you or I.]

10/14/2016 2:19:17 PM

^ That direct quote from Bill Clinton is right wing propaganda.

10/14/2016 2:20:43 PM

^^Bill Clinton and Paul Krugman both agree with me, the law is overall a success which has helped many people, but needs some fixes implemented by Congress. And again, thanks to the sort of disinformation you and the rest of the Republican base have bought hook, line, and sinker, Hillary Clinton is going to sweep into the White House with exactly the sort of mandate and Congress she needs to implement those fixes.

10/14/2016 2:30:25 PM

How many Nobel peace prizes does Clinton deserve on day 1 Shrike? 3? 4?

10/14/2016 2:34:02 PM

Hahahhaha keep on feeding me, your salt is giving me liiiiiiiiiife.

10/14/2016 2:39:24 PM

Unaware and compliant citizenry.

10/14/2016 3:20:41 PM

He's certainly no progressive champion and his foreign policy mistakes are well covered but... pretty striking how high his approval ratings AND favorable are today.

I'm betting a decent bit of that is comparing him to the dumpster fired candidate(s) we have going at it right now.

10/18/2016 8:10:54 AM

yeah i criticize him all the time but he's easily our greatest president ive ever seen

10/18/2016 11:18:19 AM