Quote :

"Despite what someone else stated, had he gone for it, and we had NOT made the conversion, I seriously doubt we would hear 10% of complaints from that call, than what we hear now."

If you're referring to me, I said the bitching would be nipped if the punt didn't go awry and we had good field position to get into FG range. Basically, if it had worked.

11/9/2010 12:56:53 PM

nah, cause then we'd be bitching about not scoring after we got the ball back.

11/9/2010 1:00:11 PM

Quote :

"Basically, if it had worked."

11/9/2010 1:01:41 PM

Quote :

"If you're referring to me, I said the bitching would be nipped if the punt didn't go awry and we had good field position to get into FG range. Basically, if it had worked. "

Thats like saying the ends justify the means. I think people would have said "Tom got lucky" had we pulled it off, and asked him why he made that decision. They wouldnt have praised it.

11/9/2010 1:09:16 PM

Quote :

" I think people would have said "Tom got lucky" had we pulled it off, and asked him why he made that decision."

So, basically, no matter what, I'd have a reason to call you guys dumb fucks.

11/9/2010 1:11:10 PM

Quote :

"we had good field position to get into FG range"

with what kicker?

11/9/2010 1:23:05 PM

Flint?

11/9/2010 1:45:43 PM

so you're going to have a back up kicker (with only previous experience being extra points vs western carolina) come in cold and attempt a game winning FG from 35-40 yards?

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 2:27 PM. Reason : experience]

11/9/2010 2:25:57 PM

You think we were gonna score a TD on that drive?

11/9/2010 2:28:01 PM

Let me answer that for you

Of fucking course we weren't

So, TOB's options: fail on 4th, Clemson three and out, start a new drive inside our own 20

Or punt, Clemson three and out, start a new drive near midfield

FIELD

FUCKING

POSITION

11/9/2010 2:37:22 PM

So you think we move the ball far enough for a comfortable field goal with a true freshman or RS sophomore? I doubt we were going to score either way though.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2010 2:40:35 PM

Quote :

" I doubt we were going to score either way though."

Congratulations, you just invalidate your entire argument you fucking chump

11/9/2010 2:44:12 PM

this thread has all kinds of awesome in it

11/9/2010 2:47:29 PM

11/9/2010 2:51:29 PM

Quote :

"You think we were gonna score a TD on that drive?"

I think our chances of winning the game were much higher going for it on 4th down

On 4th down plays a good amount of the time there is a breakdown in the defense as they sell out to attempt to stop the first down...if you can get past two or three guys at the line of scrimmage you can get a big gain depending on the type of play called

If we got the first down with a short gain, then there would be plenty of time left on the clock to run our normal offense instead of panicking and having Russell throw 40 yard passes into triple coverage. Maybe we score a TD, likely we don't. Either way, we would be closer to scoring than we could reasonably expect from a returned punt, and that's provided we stopped Clemson. Maybe we score a TD, maybe Flint gets a FG try from 25 yards, maybe we get stopped on the next set of downs and are screwed anyway. Doesn't matter, the chance of winning the game was higher going for it

If we failed on fourth down Clemson got the ball where they eventually got it after the FOUR YARD PUNT and...we still got the ball back with a chance to win anyway

11/9/2010 2:54:53 PM

so um...i just heard that we play Wake this weekend, and that the Clemson game is over, and we're not allowed to go back in time and do things differently, and that that game is over, and our team is preparing for the Deacons

11/9/2010 2:55:24 PM

God bless you Captain Hindsight(s)!

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 3:04 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2010 3:04:14 PM

Clemson's D-line singlehandedly dominated us at the line of scrimmage all day and held us back from getting ANYTHING going offensively. If we tried to run it, they'd stuff it - both sideways and straight up the middle. If we tried to pass it out of the shotgun, Wilson was feeling pressure within 1-2 secs of catching the hike.

I don't blame TOB for punting - he knew we couldn't do anything offensively anyways. If we punt it and down the ball near the 5, we force them to punt at their 10 yard line and maybe we're looking at a blocked punt.

Although on that 4th-and-1, if we had lined up in a I-formation and ran either a halfback toss or that same play-action pass to the tight end from the FSU game, we would have converted.

11/9/2010 3:19:29 PM

I wont deny that 4th and 1 is a very different down than any other, especially at the point in the game, but thinking we had a low% chance of converting it just because we got "dominated" all game is stupid

Actually looking through the game log the only short yardage situation in the entire game aside from the failed 3rd and 2 the play before we punted was a 3rd and 1 in the third quarter. Result?

Quote :

"3rd and 1 at NCST 19 James Washington rush for 3 yards to the NCSt 22 for a 1ST down."

The only other play close to this scenario was the TD on 1st and Goal from the Clemson 3 on the first drive of the game. So we were 2 of 3, and even on the failed down we got a yard. Every other drive either ended with 3rd and long or a turnover

Also worth nothing: Of Greene's 12 rushes, 10 went for positive yardage (all only 2 to 4 yards, granted), 1 went for a loss of a yard and the other was the fumble

11/9/2010 3:57:18 PM

Also of note: Greene wasn't in the game

11/9/2010 4:01:46 PM

for what reason - we dont know. if he was banged up, fair enough. even with him in, im not sure our best play in that situation is a rush straight up the middle anyway

11/9/2010 4:34:03 PM

pretty sure he didn't see the field after that fumble deep in our territory that led to one of the clemson TD's

11/9/2010 4:49:34 PM

yeah, that was with like 2min to go in the 3rd don't think he made it back out.

11/9/2010 4:53:18 PM

Quote :

"Clemson's D-line singlehandedly dominated us at the line of scrimmage all day and held us back from getting ANYTHING going offensively. If we tried to run it, they'd stuff it - both sideways and straight up the middle. If we tried to pass it out of the shotgun, Wilson was feeling pressure within 1-2 secs of catching the hike. I don't blame TOB for punting - he knew we couldn't do anything offensively anyways. If we punt it and down the ball near the 5, we force them to punt at their 10 yard line and maybe we're looking at a blocked punt. Although on that 4th-and-1, if we had lined up in a I-formation and ran either a halfback toss or that same play-action pass to the tight end from the FSU game, we would have converted."

so a the probability of a blocked punt > the probability of converting a 4th and 1?

11/9/2010 4:59:50 PM

Quote :

"pretty sure he didn't see the field after that fumble deep in our territory that led to one of the clemson TD's"

this was my assumption as well, and I think if it's what happened that is a poor coaching move. Dog housing a freshman RB for fumbling when he has an issue of it and we have other options? I can maybe see that

In a critical conference game where our other RB is a 3rd stringer still coming back from an injury? Not so much

11/9/2010 5:20:23 PM

Please stop talking about the damn 4th down call already. Some people think he made the right call and the punt execution fucked it up, other people think he made the wrong call. Get over it, we lost, YOU PEOPLE should be used to it by now.

11/9/2010 5:26:05 PM

I was there. Family section. EVERY person in that section was PISSED.

11/9/2010 10:52:11 PM

12/25/2010 5:44:39 PM

bump

Quote :

"During his 14 years as a head coach, Tom O'Brien has mentored six assistant coaches who have gone on to be Division I head coaches. Three of his former protégés are now head coaches in the Atlantic Coast Conference: Al Golden at Miami, Mike London at Virginia and Frank Spaziani at Boston College."

+1 credible

1/6/2011 2:21:46 PM

He has ALWAYS been credible. His team showed vast improvement this year. He didn't make excuses when he had to play Daniel Evans at QB. He didn't make excuses when half the team was injured his first three years. He is a solid coach and anyone that questioned that is a dumbass. He may be our Sendek of football but that's what we needed to get to the next level after Chuck's shenanigans.

[Edited on January 6, 2011 at 10:08 PM. Reason : I love TOB]

1/6/2011 10:07:56 PM

it's pretty funny, there are some people (you see some of them on pp) who say that TOB constantly made excuses about injuries prior to this season. i wasn't one of them, but there are plenty of them.

1/6/2011 10:55:52 PM

IC seems to think o'brien is the biggest whiner in the history of college athletics.

1/7/2011 12:39:58 AM

still credible

but he still shouldn't have punted in that Clemson game

1/7/2011 2:57:00 AM

this is still relevant

Quote :

"i just heard that we play Wake this weekend, and that the Clemson game is over"

1/7/2011 3:12:33 AM

Quote :

"who say that TOB constantly made excuses about injuries prior to this season."

We did have a TON of injuries the last few years (every team has injuries, but we have more than average). He mentioned them, but I never felt like he was whining about it or making excuses.

We were unusually healthy this year. It was kinda weird.

1/7/2011 7:36:22 AM

tom o brien is the MAN!!!

1/7/2011 8:42:38 AM

Finished #25 in both polls.

Awesome season. should have had a couple more wins, but considering we played 9 bowl teams and predicted to go 5-7...

1/11/2011 9:39:42 AM

Still can't believe that Maryland finished above us at 23...

1/11/2011 9:57:13 AM

what's so hard to believe?

they beat us head to head and finished with the same record

1/11/2011 10:00:43 AM

They did beat us.

1/11/2011 10:01:29 AM

I <3 TOB

1/11/2011 10:21:19 AM

very happy for the team

1/11/2011 10:25:38 AM

definitely pleased with this season.

1/11/2011 10:26:37 AM

a goodgreat (relative to what we've had lately) season, hopefully we can build on this and maintain a reasonable level of success

[Edited on January 11, 2011 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

1/11/2011 10:36:00 AM

I think so. We have a pretty soft schedule next year, 9 wins should be our floor even without Wilson.

now that I've said that, we'll finish 5-7.

1/11/2011 10:45:47 AM

Can't complain about the season, we definitely did better than any of us thought we would.

You can of course complain about the punt, that was just incompetent game management and it may have cost us a shot at the title.

1/11/2011 1:17:02 PM

or if we had gone for it, we might not have made it.

to save another go round of pointless hypothesizing, let's just admit that we blew a few games we should have won, but we also got lucky as fuck with Ponder's fumble and the catch at Carolina.

it all comes out in the wash

1/11/2011 1:24:15 PM

what you can undeniably be disappointed about, even if you can't outright complain about it, is that we had a lead in the fourth quarter of every game we lost.

for what could have been.

1/11/2011 1:36:25 PM

except the maryland game.

1/11/2011 1:41:53 PM

yea we won some we should've lost, and lost some we should've won. oh well, maybe it'll all come together one year...

still credible.

1/11/2011 1:47:25 PM