In theory a touchpad would allow you to run "real" apps with a pointer

3/12/2010 5:56:52 PM

I keep looking for a reason to NOT get an iPad but everything else I look at is just as (or more) disappointing to me.

-WTF kind of range is $327-800? So far I've seen 2 versions of that (16gb & 32gb) so how is it topping out at more than double the base price?

-It's made by some random Indian people that I've never heard of (has anyone?). This is a big ding against it. If it's MADE by Indians then that's who I'm going to have to deal with if/when tech support is needed. With the iPad, at least I can just roll down to a local store to talk to an idiot that I can understand.

-1024 x 600? That resolution sucks bad enough that most netbooks aren't even using it now.

-3 OS? Which one are they actually supporting? Android is great for touchscreen but there's no apps in comparison to Apple & there's definitely no apps that fit this resolution. How many will be re-released to fit it? If it's Linux then at least you can run a netbook remix type but that still makes me wonder. I've installed Ubuntu 3 times in the past 2 years and it's yet to make it more than 2 months before getting wiped off whatever I installed it on. Chrome is too new but at this point, I don't think it's enough for anything more than an absolute basic unit.

-Why does it need 1080p output? I can't get any kind of HD on the unit itself but I'm going to load up a bunch of movies on it in case there's a HDMI input available at the hotel I'm staying at?

-3MP camera is pointless. Anything larger than a phone needs at least a 5mp camera. With phones coming with up to 8mp now, there's no reason to stick a webcam-only quality camera on this thing. It's only slightly better than Apple leaving one off altogether.

I love the USB & SD card slots on that thing but that's pretty much it. The screen may be nice but it's new tech and I don't particularly want to beta test it. I don't think I'd be using it outside enough for it to be a huge advantage for me either.

I've got until the 3rd week of April before my next business trip and it's looking more and more like the iPad is going to be going with me. I just haven't seen anything else that's "as good" (let alone better) that's actually got a release date that's likely to come before Q3...

3/12/2010 7:17:08 PM

Quote :

"-1024 x 600? That resolution sucks bad enough that most netbooks aren't even using it now."

No most netbooks still use it. Some have moved to 1366 by 768. But 1024 by 600 is still the standard. The only reason it's not 1024 by 768 is because it's widescreen instead of 4:3. Why's 1024 by 600 so bad?

Quote :

"Why does it need 1080p output? I can't get any kind of HD on the unit itself but I'm going to load up a bunch of movies on it in case there's a HDMI input available at the hotel I'm staying at?"

So you can hook it up to an HDTV and watch movies? Why else? Same reason i have an HDMI output on my netbook. I can carry around a bunch of bluray rips and watch them on friends HDTVs.

Quote :

"3MP camera is pointless. Anything larger than a phone needs at least a 5mp camera. With phones coming with up to 8mp now, there's no reason to stick a webcam-only quality camera on this thing. It's only slightly better than Apple leaving one off altogether."

Read up on CMOS sensors. It's a common misconception that the megapixel is what matters the most. You can easily have a 3MP camera that has a nicer sensor than a 5MP camera.

And 3MP is NOT webcam only quality. It's 2048 by 1536. "webcam" quality is typically a .3 MP camera or 640 by 480. So you were off by a factor of 10.

But yeah it looks like i wouldn't mind having an iPad either. I can tether the wifi only one to my iPhone for free 3g anywhere i have my phone. Guess i'll still have to carry my e-book reader around though.

3/12/2010 7:44:43 PM

http://www.slashgear.com/notion-ink-adam-flash-ipad-comparison-app-competition-0873197/

- as for the price range it is up in the air because it's speculated that one version would be LCD and the upper end would be the new low-powered Pixel Qi screen

- because of the Tegra2 chip and low-powered screen it's likely the battery life would be much greater than even the iPad

- product support could be an issue, but consider this, Notion Ink has been working on the Adam device for 3-years, probably just as long as Apple has on the iPad. also look at the JooJoo, it's made by some no-name company that partnered with TechCrunch and made in eastern Asia as well, yet it's slated to be pretty successful.

- 1024x600, you do realize the iPad is 1024x768 and virtually the same physical size don't you?

- it's an Android device, i have no idea why they listed "chromium" or "ubuntu" other than the fact that it may be possible to order the device with any of the 3 options, again with ubuntu it could reduce the cost

- 1080p output is great for multimedia, more likely used when you take it on the road to use with a 1080p projector or hooking up to a friend's HDTV

- 3MP camera, i agree it could be higher, but for video chat computers aren't going to send more than 3MP video over the internet, and 9 times out of 10 you'd be using the camera for video chat, not photography.

3/12/2010 7:47:54 PM

Quote :

"In theory a touchpad would allow you to run "real" apps with a pointer"

umm...in theory a pointer doesn't qualify an app as real or not. There is nothing not real about an app that works with touch input.

3/12/2010 8:01:04 PM

come on man, the "" was to signify the basic concept that it could actually run apps like Word or Excel without requiring a new touch interface

3/12/2010 8:03:51 PM

I don’t see a right click on their touchpad.

And I don’t see what a touchpad offers for Word or Excel that isn’t better achieved by tapping on the screen.

3/12/2010 8:07:49 PM

Quote :

"And I don’t see what a touchpad offers for Word or Excel that isn’t better achieved by tapping on the screen."

You're joking right? That's why OSX/Windows are not exactly touch friendly. They both have so many small menus and options that you can't really use a touch screen to hit because your fingers are too big. A touchpad like on a laptop acts like a real mouse and allows you to navigate through all those menus and options in software like Office.

This is traditionally why PC tablets have failed in the past because windows isn't exactly touch friendly with all the options and menus. One reason why you had to have a sylus in previous windows tablets was because your fingers are too large to navigate around. A trackpad on a tablet would allow you to navigate through a non-touch friendly OS like OSX/windows/most distros of linux.

So if they wanted to put a version of Office on the ipad they'd have to completely redo the interface to be touch friendly. Right now it would just be too hard to navigate through all the options using a finger. If you've ever tried to navigate through windows on a tablet PC you know what i'm talking about.

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 8:23 PM. Reason : s]

3/12/2010 8:17:51 PM

Quote :

"If it's MADE by Indians then that's who I'm going to have to deal with if/when tech support is needed. "

Dealing with Indians for tech support?

WHY I NEVER!

3/12/2010 9:03:09 PM

Quote :

"You're joking right? That's why OSX/Windows are not exactly touch friendly. They both have so many small menus and options that you can't really use a touch screen to hit because your fingers are too big. A touchpad like on a laptop acts like a real mouse and allows you to navigate through all those menus and options in software like Office. This is traditionally why PC tablets have failed in the past because windows isn't exactly touch friendly with all the options and menus. One reason why you had to have a sylus in previous windows tablets was because your fingers are too large to navigate around. A trackpad on a tablet would allow you to navigate through a non-touch friendly OS like OSX/windows/most distros of linux. "

You were talking about word/excel, not OS X/windows.

And most tablets in the past have used styluses which have the precision of the mouse.

Tablets in the past have failed because their UIs haven’t been designed from the ground-up for touch paradigms™. Slapping a trackpad on there isn’t going to fix this.

If they want to succeed, they need to ditch the legacy garbage, and focus on making a good interface.

I think this tablet though is very solid otherwise. I’m skeptical about how the screen works in indoor conditions, but it looks like theyre doing a lot of things right.

3/12/2010 9:13:06 PM

Quote :

"You're joking right? That's why OSX/Windows are not exactly touch friendly. They both have so many small menus and options that you can't really use a touch screen to hit because your fingers are too big. A touchpad like on a laptop acts like a real mouse and allows you to navigate through all those menus and options in software like Office. This is traditionally why PC tablets have failed in the past because windows isn't exactly touch friendly with all the options and menus. One reason why you had to have a sylus in previous windows tablets was because your fingers are too large to navigate around. A trackpad on a tablet would allow you to navigate through a non-touch friendly OS like OSX/windows/most distros of linux. So if they wanted to put a version of Office on the ipad they'd have to completely redo the interface to be touch friendly. Right now it would just be too hard to navigate through all the options using a finger. If you've ever tried to navigate through windows on a tablet PC you know what i'm talking about. "

this is exactly why the iPad is geared for success because the interface of the OS and 3rd party apps are designed with touch in mind. Unlike previous attempts where you are using the same OS/Apps that were initially designed for a pointer device and are now being used with a finger.

This also addresses one of the issues of why flash on such devices isn't necessarily a good thing.

Quote :

"come on man, the "" was to signify the basic concept that it could actually run apps like Word or Excel without requiring a new touch interface"

whats your point? If i want a device with a touch pad to run word and excel as they are currently then i'd use a laptop.

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2010 9:13:15 PM

i don't think your comment:

Quote :

"If i want a device with a touch pad to run word and excel as they are currently then i'd use a laptop."

is universally true for all users. plus I was purely answering why there is a trackpad, not making any judgements about its actual usefulness

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 9:26 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2010 9:25:54 PM

@neodata

- I guess I should have said netbooks over $300 or something. Most of your "nice" netbooks seem to be 768. 600 is just too small. I got one of the first Dell Mini-9s and it was great but I HATED having to scroll down for EVERYTHING. It's just a pain in the ass. For my purposes, it's a huge inconvenience as one of my biggest "wants" is as a portable photo viewer. iPad has nearly 30% more vertical real estate and that's a HUGE advantage for me.

- You're going to load up a bunch of 4gb+ 1080p files on something that maxes out at 32gb? Personally, if I want/plan to watch HD, I'm fine with 720p or I'll take my laptop so that I can hold a few of my files and not just a few movies.

- I'm a camera geek so I'm very familiar with the mp=quality myth but when it comes to portable devices, a 3mp camera is a 3mp camera. Nobody is springing for a decent quality sensor for these things so the least they could do is up it to 5-8mp to get a little more image quality out of it. True that it's not traditional webcam quality, I just expect more from something where a main design benefit is recording a meeting or class. That's going to be a painful video with a typical mobile 3mp cam.


@Prospero

- 3 years doesn't mean much to me because I don't know who they are. It's better than spitting it out in 4 months but Apple/Dell/etc. are known entities. These guys aren't. I'm not going to drop $500+ on something without having some kind of expectation of it's quality/dependability.

- 1024 x 768 is nearly 30% more vertical screen real estate than 1024 x 600. I don't care about widescreen. My life & work flow are not widescreen outside of movies (which is maybe 10% of my laptop use). If I want something for movies (widescreen), I'll buy a portable DVD player for $100. I want something for movies, photography, web browsing, etc. The less I have to scroll down, the better. Going from a 600px netbook to a 768 was a substantial improvement for me.

- While I'm an Android fan, owning an Android phone after an iPod Touch has shown me how far the OS has to go before it has the same quality & app selection. I also think the chances of native resolution Android apps being easy to find is extremely low.

- I agree with the 3MP cam for video chat. I just have no interest in that aspect. I *DO* have interest in the whole recording of meetings thing that he was talking about and I see 3MP as too low quality for that. It's quite possible that it's just because the meetings that I'm specifically interested in that for tend to be larger with 20+ people so there's often a bit of space between myself and the speaker.


RE: touchpad

I don't recall where it was but I read an article a while back that was talking about Apple & the whole flash thing. One of the points to the article was the difficult in getting flash to work well with a touchscreen since most flash apps must be able to recognize the difference between cursor/pointer movement and clicking (think games). The touchpad on the ADAM would be a good way to get rid of that concern. I'd like to know if it has an on/off switch though. I think it's potentially awesome but I wouldn't want to be clicking something just because I moved my hand while reading a book.

3/13/2010 12:21:40 AM

Quote :

"I'm a camera geek so I'm very familiar with the mp=quality myth but when it comes to portable devices, a 3mp camera is a 3mp camera. Nobody is springing for a decent quality sensor for these things so the least they could do is up it to 5-8mp to get a little more image quality out of it."

you're either overestimating how much of a "camera geek" you are, or you're truly ignorant of how it all works

you're not going to "get a little more image quality" out of a 5-8mp camera with the same sensor as a 3mp...i've seen you post in the DSLR thread, so i would assume you have at least a basic understanding of how irrelevant megapixels are in regards to sensor size, but your statement is out and out retarded

for the size of the generated image, you'll get WORSE image quality out of an 8mp image that's taken with a 3mp-sized sensor at full resolution

3/14/2010 10:32:05 AM

Why does anyone want a rear facing camera on a tablet? Front facing for video chat sure but who in their right Mind is going to snap photos with a 10" device.

3/14/2010 11:29:10 AM

^^ My bad, I must have missed where I said anything about equal sized sensors. Could you remind me? I'm assuming that you didn't do something like make an assumption that "is out and out retarded". In my personal experience, most portable devices with 3mp cameras take lower quality photos than those with 5-8mp quality sensors. While a 5-8mp cam on the same size sensor as a 3mp cam could possibly end up taking worse photos, that's not what I said or even implied.

^ since the format doesn't really exist yet, I couldn't tell you. Personally, I'm not a 15 year old girl so I don't need a front facing cam so I can video myself all the time and I'm not big on video chats either. For me, if I have it out already and I'm using it then I see absolutely no reason that I wouldn't use it to snap a pic or two. We're not talking about trying to shoot the cover of National Geographic or anything but I could definitely see some uses if I was doing something like taking inventory in my warehouse and wanted to get an image of whatever part I was counting.

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 6:56 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2010 6:52:02 PM

Quote :

"for the size of the generated image, you'll get WORSE image quality out of an 8mp image that's taken with a 3mp-sized sensor at full resolution "

It depends on what you're taking a picture of. With enough light (and a bit of noise reduction), the 8MP for the same sensor size is going to look better.

3/14/2010 7:35:14 PM

Quote :

"My bad, I must have missed where I said anything about equal sized sensors. Could you remind me? I'm assuming that you didn't do something like make an assumption that "is out and out retarded". In my personal experience, most portable devices with 3mp cameras take lower quality photos than those with 5-8mp quality sensors. While a 5-8mp cam on the same size sensor as a 3mp cam could possibly end up taking worse photos, that's not what I said or even implied."

oh, okay, so i guess you know more than the developers...i mean, after all, what would THEY know about designing such a device, or marketing it to the masses?

Quote :

"It depends on what you're taking a picture of. With enough light (and a bit of noise reduction), the 8MP for the same sensor size is going to look better."

true...but i don't really see people taking pictures of flowers out in broad daylight

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 8:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2010 8:16:52 PM

^Not at all. Notice how I started out this whole thing with how it was disappointing TO ME and then listed why it wasn't the right device FOR ME? I'm pretty sure that the developers don't know more about what I want than I do. BTW, exactly WHAT do they know about designing such a device or marketing it to the masses? I was under the impression that they're in beta. Have they done this before? Is this a 2nd generation device? I mean, fuck me, I forgot that when you design what's basically a brand new device, you already know exactly how it's going to do.

Don't get pissy just because you tried to be a smartass and call me out only to end up with your foot in your mouth. That's also a nice backpedal after you talk about how the quality would be "WORSE" and my assumed statement was "out and out retarded". Next time, try not being a dickhead when you either don't understand or disagree with someone else's preference or statement.

3/14/2010 9:54:46 PM

Quote :

"Not at all. Notice how I started out this whole thing with how it was disappointing TO ME and then listed why it wasn't the right device FOR ME? I'm pretty sure that the developers don't know more about what I want than I do. BTW, exactly WHAT do they know about designing such a device or marketing it to the masses? I was under the impression that they're in beta. Have they done this before? Is this a 2nd generation device? I mean, fuck me, I forgot that when you design what's basically a brand new device, you already know exactly how it's going to do."

haha, okay...you DO realize that your opinion means less than piss, right? your expectations/desires for a device like this are, at present, completely unrealistic...what you want is unreasonable and unfeasible...you won't see what you want any time soon because it's stupid...so yeah, i suppose you qualified your "out and out retarded" statement with the note that it's disappointing to you, but while we're at it, why don't you cry that they don't stick a DSLR in there? i mean, while we're going to be unreasonable, we might as well shoot for the moon, eh?

Quote :

"Don't get pissy just because you tried to be a smartass and call me out only to end up with your foot in your mouth. That's also a nice backpedal after you talk about how the quality would be "WORSE" and my assumed statement was "out and out retarded". Next time, try not being a dickhead when you either don't understand or disagree with someone else's preference or statement."

i'm pissy because you obviously have no clue about design and marketing...you don't seem to understand that this device only has so much space and that quality photo sensors take up a certain amount...they don't put "real" camera sensors in these things because they're comparatively huge...MY point (which you've refused to understand, likely because you don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about) is that this not only doesn't have a sensor large enough to cram 8mp on, it doesn't even have a QUALITY sensor because there's quite likely not enough space...and if there IS enough space, it's hardly cost effective because it's only you and four other people on the planet that give's a rat's ass about taking quality 8mp pictures with a damn tablet...do you cry yourself to sleep every night because your laptop's webcam doesn't take stellar photographs? what you WANT is stupid and you're stupid for thinking it's realistic

moron's point was a good one, i just don't see many situations where people would be in a place where there's optimal lighting, if for no other reason than, as a general rule, great lighting makes it more difficult to see/read an electronic screen (this obviously isn't always true, and may not be true for either the ipad or the notion ink adam)

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 8:54:21 AM

yo this argument is stupid/gay

3/15/2010 9:01:27 AM

Quote :

"yo this argument is stupid/gay"

all arguments on teh intarweb are stupid/gay

3/15/2010 9:04:16 AM

nah just the ones you start for no reason whatsoever

3/15/2010 9:36:04 AM

I'M not the one suggesting that a tablet should have a quality 8mp camera in it

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 9:48 AM. Reason : and pretending like that's a reasonable feature at this point in time]

3/15/2010 9:44:33 AM

To sit there and say that sticking a larger camera sensor in is unreasonable or unfeasible is one of the most retarded things that I've ever read on TWW. Congratulations sir on being a complete fucking idiot. How exactly is it stupid to think that cell-phone level quality of photos/videos is EASILY POSSIBLE? Have you ever actually seen a fucking sensor? To compare upgrading from a tiny 3mp sensor to a still tiny 5mp to sticking a fucking DSLR into it is fucking retarded.

What exactly is it that you do that you know so much about design and marketing that you think fitting a larger camera is impossible, expensive, or in any way not a benefit? Shit man, do YOU know anything about sensor sizes? We're talking about a difference of MAYBE 1.5mm between a 3mp sensor & a 5mp sensor.

And really, you think people using a tablet wouldn't be in a place where there's decent lighting? You think the average buyer knows anything about optimal lighting? The same people that have a fb page full of cell phone pics? They don't know or care about lighting. They just know that 5mp is "better" than 3mp. Really, do YOU understand marketing? It's clear that you don't understand how anyone could ever manage to squeeze an insanely huge 5mp camera in over a microscopic 3mp camera in but I was hoping that maybe you understood something as basic as the average consumer.

Look man, I get it. You started a stupid argument and now you have to keep in it regardless of the fact that you're obviously talking out of your ass. It's cool. Just quit posting and everyone will forget that you're a fucking tool that doesn't have any idea wtf he's talking about.

3/15/2010 12:00:01 PM

Quote :

"Look man, I get it. You started a stupid argument and now you have to keep in it regardless of the fact that you're obviously talking out of your ass. It's cool. Just quit posting and everyone will forget that you're a fucking tool that doesn't have any idea wtf he's talking about."

haha, okay...i don't know what i'm talking about, and yet this magical device that you want, which you claim is reasonable, feasible, and cost effective (or will you finally admit that it is not?) will not be found any time soon...you know why? because you're a dumbass

you can disagree with my reasoning, but the FACT is that you won't get what you want because everyone else with half a clue realizes that it's wishful thinking

but hey, man, keep on telling yourself that no one understands what you want and that it's just a damn shame...i'm sure someone important will see what you wrote and do their darnedest to make your perfect tablet

in the meantime, if you want to point me to a device that offers QUALITY 8mp pictures...in a housing that is NO THICKER than the ipad/notion ink adam...then we can argue about how much of that product's cost can be attributed to this awesome, quality, 8mp camera...until then, really, keep on living in your fantasy land where everything you want is given to you

Quote :

"The same people that have a fb page full of cell phone pics?"

tablet != cell phone...not in form, function, or operation.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:19:51 PM

posted below because you edit too fucking much.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:28:38 PM

Quote :

"it's easily feasible and would be an improvement"

that's your OPINION, which is based on NOTHING...all i'm saying, you fucktard, is that developers know more about this than you OR i and i'm inclined to trust their expertise over some dumbshit who thinks because he takes a few pictures on his big sexy camera, he knows about the hardware development of a completely different product

it's like you think they have 3mp and 8mp sensors just sitting in a box and they decided 3mp would be better because no one cares...what i think you should realize and what you obviously don't, is that there is more that goes into developing the product than just blindly choosing features...a decent sensor is larger, uses more power, and is more expensive...this could make for a bulkier product with worse battery life at a higher price point that would in turn diminish sales...but hey, this random jerkoff on tww WANTS it, so why are they considering all of this when ONE GUY is pissing and moaning about it? jeebus, get a real p&s like everyone else, you dumb fuck

Damn man, it's not that difficult.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:30:35 PM

Quote :

"in the meantime, if you want to point me to a device that offers QUALITY 8mp pictures...in a housing that is NO THICKER than the ipad/notion ink adam...then we can argue about how much of that product's cost can be attributed to this awesome, quality, 8mp camera...until then, really, keep on living in your fantasy land where everything you want is given to you "

Supposed the Nokia N86 and Samsung Memoir take pretty good 8MP pictures while clocking in at 0.6in thick.

You're going to be a tool about the whole "NO THICKER" thing, but considering that the difference between is 0.1in and the iPad is a good 7+ inches taller than either phone, I don't think shaving 0.1in off is really much of a sticking point.

But this is just another example of you getting worked up for god knows what reason.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:37:59 PM

again, why am i going to hold up a tablet to take photos? I have my cellphone or digi cam for that. I may as well start using the iSite on my 17" MBP to take pictures too. lol

3/15/2010 12:40:42 PM

no shit it's wishful thinking you fucktard. That's what I said at the top of the page. Tell me what person exists that has the exact product that they want without any changes whatsoever. They don't exist you idiot. There's no such thing as a perfect device and there never will be. My point was that it's easily feasible and would be an improvement. Damn man, it's not that difficult.

Awesome, you edited. Please show me where I talk about this amazing quality 8mp camera? I said that PHONES are available with 8mp cameras now so there's no excuse for this thing to have a 3mp camera. It's called reading comprehension. You should try it.

I've said it before, what exactly do these guys know about producing or marketing a device like this? Have they done it before? Right now they have a prototype and it's such high quality that the fucking bezel came off when they demo'd it. You really want to sit there and say that they have so much packed into this thing that they don't have 1mm or extra space for the camera sensor? Really? You want to say that? Ok, I didn't think so.

Once again, in my opinion and for my use, a 3mp camera is pointless and a waste of space & cost. If you don't like it, get the fuck over it.

Fucking shit man, quit editing....

A larger sensor takes so much room that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that fit IN YOUR POCKET. It takes so much more power that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that have to last all day. They're so rare that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that are buy one get one free now. Fuck me! My cell phone tires me out from carrying it around all day and switching batteries out every hour. I wish I could afford to go out tonight but I had to spend $5000 just to buy my cell phone.

Congrats man, you're still retarded. Figure out what you're arguing about before you throw up pointless & just plain dumb arguments.

3/15/2010 12:42:50 PM

Quote :

"Supposed the Nokia N86 and Samsung Memoir take pretty good 8MP pictures while clocking in at 0.6in thick."

you can get the nokia n86 for $375 and the memoir for about $330 unlocked, so there's no subsidization...you're deluding yourself if you think the actual telephony electronics make up much of that cost...they a hell of a lot less than the ipad or adam

Quote :

"You're going to be a tool about the whole "NO THICKER" thing, but considering that the difference between is 0.1in and the iPad is a good 7+ inches taller than either phone are about 6 months old at this point, I don't think shaving 0.1in is really much of a sticking point."

you miss the point, but i'm not surprised...you usually do, but then you come back and pretend that it was all you trolling in good fun, so carry on

Quote :

"But this is just another example of you getting worked up for god knows what reason."

of course it is...i am forever entertained by people who think that technology is really just magic and the ONLY reason everything isn't the best it COULD be, and offered for $cheap, is because companies are mean and hate their customers

Quote :

"A larger sensor takes so much room that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that fit IN YOUR POCKET. It takes so much more power that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that have to last all day. They're so rare that they're putting them in CELL PHONES that are buy one get one free now. Fuck me! My cell phone tires me out from carrying it around all day and switching batteries out every hour. I wish I could afford to go out tonight but I had to spend $5000 just to buy my cell phone."

now who's making up shit? congrats, you officially have nothing to argue with, so you're going to pretend that i said things i didn't actually say...please come back with you have something of value to contribute, okay?

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:43:09 PM

& you're deluded if you think that that massive amount of money (60 whole dollars? But how will I eat?) is a result of the COST of the camera. Let me help you out here. Consumers will pay more for something that's better even if it's just ASSUMED that it's better. This is why rich people love Apple for surfing the net. This is why people buy DSLRs and leave them on Auto. This is why people want a camera that's 15mp over one that's 12mp.

Wait, now you're going to say that you didn't just imply that they're hard to find & didn't say that they're more expensive and use more energy? Shit man, better edit that out real quick before your 30 minutes are up.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 12:45:54 PM

Honestly [user]quagmire02[user] no one gives a shit what your point is.

3/15/2010 12:46:41 PM

quagmire, you are fucking stupid.

The iPad is 13.4mm

Casio EX-S10, and Sony T700 are 15mm and 16mm respectively, and are 10.1mp high end cameras.

There is no engineering reason that any modern device doesn't have an ultra-high resolution CCD and optics in it. It's all about cost.

3/15/2010 1:04:51 PM

Quote :

"Honestly [user]quagmire02[user] no one gives a shit what your point is."

that's horseshit if ever i've heard it...YOU'RE responding to me, so you care...our dear [user]dave421[/user] (and you, of course) is/are trying very very hard to compare a cell phone to a tablet as if they're comparable in this situation (really, you think a device that's flat and 10" diagonally lends itself to being a camera as well as a device that's, well, shaped just like a camera?)...neither of you are contributing anything of value except RAWR RAWR RAWRing against someone who pointed out that you've missed the point of the device entirely

hell, why don't most civics COME with a towing package? according to dave421, consumers will HAPPILY choose that over one without because, well, it MIGHT be awesome one day...let's completely ignore the fact that while the civic CAN tow SOMETHING, it doesn't do it well and the vast majority of the consumers looking for a car of that size and shape don't give a rat's ass about it's towing capabilities

if you want a tablet, get a tablet, if you want a camera, get a camera...if you want a tablet that has a great camera, i encourage you not to hold your breath, as that's a while coming

Quote :

"Casio EX-S10, and Sony T700 are 15mm and 16mm respectively, and are 10.1mp high end cameras."

you stupid son of a bitch, they're BIGGER than the ipad and their SOLE purpose is to BE a camera...don't think you that if it were as simple as you make it, they'd make the cameras 13.4mm (or less), too?

Quote :

"There is no engineering reason that any modern device doesn't have an ultra-high resolution CCD and optics in it. It's all about cost."

simply, you are wrong...engineering plays a part, whether you care to admit it, or not...to say, quite blatantly, that engineering plays NO part whatsoever in their decision is utter ignorance

do realize i'm not saying the engineering aspect is more of an issue than cost, because i haven't said that...but i, at least, am capable of understanding that it's not as simple as you've deluded yourself into believing it is

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 1:12 PM. Reason : double post]

3/15/2010 1:07:01 PM

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 1:11 PM. Reason : double post]

3/15/2010 1:10:55 PM

I see that you're awesome with analogies too. Let me help you out a bit. Saying that a Civic should have a tow package is like saying a tablet should come with a blu-ray player and 7.1 Surround sound. Sure it COULD, but it'd be stupid. Saying that they should UPGRADE a camera by the most minimal amount possible is like saying it was stupid of them to put a 1.2 liter 3cyl. in a Civic when a 1.8 4 cyl. that has more power while costing about 1% more and losing 1% in fuel mileage. Wait, they DID put a 1.8 in the Civic didn't they! Well, shit. Guess that doesn't help you any.

Engineering, cost, and any other reason that you can come up with is not sufficient argument for a 3mp camera over a 5mp camera. Sorry but it just plain doesn't work.

Also, Golovko, if you're using your tablet and it's camera is equal quality to your cell phone, why would you put it down, pull out your cell phone, wait for the camera to come up, take a picture, put it back to home screen, & then put it back in your pocket? You wouldn't. You'd just snap a pic with the tablet that's already out and in use. If you want a high quality photo, you wouldn't use either. Nobody is suggesting that someone is going to pull their table out of their bag just to take a pic.

*edit* just to be clear, I'm done with you. I'm getting dumber every second that I read one of your posts. Feel free to respond with some more drivel. I'll just let you go on.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 1:44 PM. Reason : finished....]

3/15/2010 1:42:17 PM

Quote :

"Also, Golovko, if you're using your tablet and it's camera is equal quality to your cell phone, why would you put it down, pull out your cell phone, wait for the camera to come up, take a picture, put it back to home screen, & then put it back in your pocket? You wouldn't. You'd just snap a pic with the tablet that's already out and in use. If you want a high quality photo, you wouldn't use either. Nobody is suggesting that someone is going to pull their table out of their bag just to take a pic."

because I won't be using my tablet the same way I use my phone. If i'm using the tablet I'm likely not on the move some where so the odds of needing to snap a pic real quick is likely not going to happen. I'll either be on my phone or need to grab my photo taking device real quick to snap a photo.

3/15/2010 2:49:00 PM

Quote :

"Engineering, cost, and any other reason that you can come up with is not sufficient argument for a 3mp camera over a 5mp camera. Sorry but it just plain doesn't work."

i noticed you quit referencing 8mp...is that because you realized you're fucking retarded? i do love how you've now said that "it doesn't matter what argument you use, it's wrong...not because of facts, but because i THINK it's wrong"...you're a real winner, aren't you? debate team? please tell me you don't work in a field that requires FACTS for making arguments...

Quote :

"because I won't be using my tablet the same way I use my phone. If i'm using the tablet I'm likely not on the move some where so the odds of needing to snap a pic real quick is likely not going to happen. I'll either be on my phone or need to grab my photo taking device real quick to snap a photo."

you should probably stop with the logic...dave ain't gonna get it

i look forward to the day that i see someone snapping party pictures with their tablet (which they conveniently slide back into their pocket afterward)...more amusing yet will be when they're checking it out the image and complaining that it's only a crappy 3mp

THE WORLD NEEDS 8MP TABLETS STAT

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 2:57:30 PM

^^ What? I know you won't be using it the same way as your phone. That's why I said "if you're already using it". If you're on the move, you're not going to be using your tablet. If you're sitting in Starbucks reading MacLife's digital edition and some idiot walks in screaming about 3mp cameras being awesome and you decide to record it, the tablet is already out and in use. All you have to do is hit a button to record his retardation and then submit it directly to YouTube to be an internet hero. You're saying that you would lay it down and pull your phone out? That's illogical. There's 0 advantage to using your phone.

^Ok, one more time. how many other people here have agreed with me that you're retarded? I harp on 5 because that's acceptable but some companies want to be better (see the 10+mp cameras in a couple of phones available now) so they may go up to 8. Either way, it doesn't change the argument. You're the dumbass arguing with someone about their opinion, then admitted that you didn't know wtf the designers had in mind, & still want to talk about "engineering", costs, & battery life as being reasons that a 3mp camera is sufficient for everyone in the world. You lost, you're a dumbass. That's it man. Keep on all you want but it's pretty easy for everyone to tell that you're a fucktard. Whereas I wouldn't mind a few unneeded features, you're actually stupid and think that they're impossible. Now, enjoy yourself and don't forget to wear your helmet when you go play with your friends!

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 3:15:22 PM

This entire page is another wonderful example of quagmire02 putting words into someone's posts just so he can act like a bitch and start a flame war.

dave421 says he'd prefer a better camera in the device and holy shit, you just lose it.

3/15/2010 3:22:49 PM

Quote :

"Whereas I wouldn't mind a few unneeded features, you're actually stupid and think that they're impossible."

i said impossible? where...mind finding the place where i said it was IMPOSSIBLE to put a higher-quality camera in there? really...i'll wait

Quote :

"This entire page is another wonderful example of quagmire02 putting words into someone's posts just so he can act like a bitch and start a flame war."

see above, dipshit...at least try being consistent when you're going to call people out

Quote :

"dave421 says he'd prefer a better camera in the device and holy shit, you just lose it."

calling out stupid for stupid is hardly losing it...but hey, i realize it's easier to ask for something only SLIGHTLY unreasonable and pretend like it's not retarded

hell, i said i'd PREFER that windows 7 give me the OPTION of a taskbar that acted more like XP and Noen and everyone else acted like i was asking for the moon because i'm not the TARGET audience...that was OBVIOUSLY a silly desire

but this one, hey, it's such an awesome idea that i can't believe no one has implemented it! after all, putting in a 5-8mp camera would make the difference between the device selling to no one and everyone buying 5 or 6 each!

but hey, why be consistent? y'all let me know next time one of my crazy unreasonable preferences borders on the insane, okay? in the meantime, i refuse to buy a tablet until folds my laundry and gives A+ blowjobs

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 3:44:40 PM

Quote :

"i said impossible? where...mind finding the place where i said it was IMPOSSIBLE to put a higher-quality camera in there? really...i'll wait"

You said it was "unfeasible". What do you think that word means?

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 3:59 PM. Reason : It's pretty funny how you're all butthurt about the Windows 7 thing still]

3/15/2010 3:58:44 PM

Quote :

"hell, i said i'd PREFER that windows 7 give me the OPTION of a taskbar that acted more like XP"

You can reactivate the quick launch bar just like in XP/Vista. Is that what you were wanting?

It would have been nice if the iPad had a camera. I can imagine people at a social event video chatting with someone who couldn't make it and passing the iPad around talking to the absent friend. That would be kind of cool. Like in the office when they pass Jim's Mac Book around the office with Pam on it.

In terms of quality for video chatting nothing more than 1.3 MP is ever needed. I guess i could maybe see the need for a higher quality camera on the other end, but mainly for app integration.

For example if you had a nice camera on the back (or even front) think of the possibilities for augmented reality apps. You could hold the iPad up like a picture frame and it would identify things in the video feed. Or maybe a cool camera filter like sepia or art where you could hold the iPad up in front of a group of friends and everyone behind you could see the live video feed before the picture was taken.

The one down side to compact cameras at parties is everyone wants to see the photo while/after it's taken. The ipad would allow everyone in the room to see the subjects while the pictures being taken, and offer a better medium for viewing the photo without having to transfer it to a computer.

Just throwing out some possibilities. There really hasn't been a portable device that can be easily past around the room with a nice camera on it. So who's to know it wouldn't be of great use in social events? Remember when OSX added all those cool features for the webcam a while back and everyone and their mom had a picture of themselves and their friends with some filter on it on facbook? A camera on the iPad would make this even easier in a social situation.

I just haven't heard one cool thing that a camera COULD do on the iPad in the last page. You guys have just been arguing about the quality of the camera. Don't you think Apple can figure that out? Shouldn't we be discussing the app possibilities and something we might actually be able to mess with rather than some engineering development that's out of our hands?

3/15/2010 3:59:46 PM

Quote :

"^^ What? I know you won't be using it the same way as your phone. That's why I said "if you're already using it". If you're on the move, you're not going to be using your tablet. If you're sitting in Starbucks reading MacLife's digital edition and some idiot walks in screaming about 3mp cameras being awesome and you decide to record it, the tablet is already out and in use. All you have to do is hit a button to record his retardation and then submit it directly to YouTube to be an internet hero. You're saying that you would lay it down and pull your phone out? That's illogical. There's 0 advantage to using your phone."

lol? was that a serious post? Pre-iPad I am sitting at that very same Starbucks and some loon runs in screaming about 3MP cameras blah blah...here is what my options are:

rotate my MBP and start recording it using the iSight camera while I'm awkwardly sitting to the side as not to block its field of vision

-or-

bust out my photo taking device (iPhone/digi cam/camcorder) and snap away?

I can still upload to youtube on the iPhone just as easily as I can from my laptop/iPad.

option B. makes me look less silly holding a phone and snapping away vs. using an iPad or my MBP.

you have yet to present a need for the rear facing camera other than personal nit picking and 'taking inventory and want to snap a pic of the product' which is such an unlikely case on an iPad...may as well throw in a barcode scanner (which the iSight could probably double as).

^now you are just blurring the lines between an iPhone and iPad...why not take it a step further and add GSM bands so it can be used as an iPhone for voice/data not just data.

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 4:25:53 PM

Quote :

"^now you are just blurring the lines between an iPhone and iPad...why not take it a step further and add GSM bands so it can be used as an iPhone for voice/data not just data."

I don't see how that's relevant to what i said. The whole emphasis was on having a camera on a device with a large screen to compliment camera apps. We've already seen this on Apple computers with the webcam, and a laptop is kind of hard to pass around. Having an iPad with a camera on it would open up a world of possibilities in terms of social events and having a screen large enough for everyone in the room to see instead of on a digital camera or iPhone.

People do stupid shit in front of mirrors and video cameras all the time. Having a device that's easy to pass around and carry with you that could act like a laptop with a webcam would be neat. I guarantee people would utilize a camera on an iPad. No doubt about that.

3/15/2010 4:39:10 PM

^^ Who said that the iPad NEEDS a rear-facing camera? I basically said that it's pointless to have a rear-facing camera that's only 3mp which is what the Adam has. Would I like to have one? Sure but I've already said that I plan to buy one without it. Seriously, what's the need for the camera on your cell phone? It's a add-on that is nice to have. iPad or any other tablet is no different for me. A perfect example is if I go out to someone's house and want to show them an addition. I can load several onto the iPad, snap a photo directly from the device and stick it on there. Now, I have to take a photo, take the card out and slip it into my mbp & import it. It's not a NECESSITY and I never said that it was. It's a plus. You act like cell phones always had cameras on them. Do you really think people didn't say "Well that's just stupid, if I want to take a pic of something, I'll use my camera!" when they were first introduced?

Further, if you're using a tablet, are you going going to be hunched over it with it lying flat on the table? Personally, I think a lot of people are going to be holding it like a book or magazine so that it's already more vertical so the fact that you're taking pictures isn't going to be completely obvious or "silly".

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ^^]

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 4:46:36 PM

Quote :

"^^ Who said that the iPad NEEDS a rear-facing camera? I basically said that it's pointless to have a rear-facing camera that's only 3mp which is what the Adam has. Would I like to have one? Sure but I've already said that I plan to buy one without it. Seriously, what's the need for the camera on your cell phone? It's a add-on that is nice to have. iPad or any other tablet is no different for me. A perfect example is if I go out to someone's house and want to show them an addition. I can load several onto the iPad, snap a photo directly from the device and stick it on there. Now, I have to take a photo, take the card out and slip it into my mbp & import it. It's not a NECESSITY and I never said that it was. It's a plus. You act like cell phones always had cameras on them. Do you really think people didn't say "Well that's just stupid, if I want to take a pic of something, I'll use my camera!" when they were first introduced?"

device physical size. Sleep on that and then get back to us, k?

[Edited on March 15, 2010 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2010 5:16:10 PM

Smaller than a sheet of paper. Sleep on that and get back to me, k?

3/15/2010 5:22:59 PM