18 Lokos

10/27/2010 11:19:42 AM

Quote :

"quagmire02: alcohol is NOT a stimulant in the technical sense of the word and its stimulating effects are extremely limited...the stimulating effects are temporary as they are quickly counteracted"

Fine. Move booze over to the permanent depressant category. My point is still the same: we mix stimulants with depressants all the time, and it's not "just a dumb idea in general" to do so. And, to be clear, you should not be emphasizing the phrase "in general" in your post and simultaneously claiming that you're only talking about Four Lokos...that don't make no sense.

There are all different kinds of stimulants. And when you talk about how mixing uppers and downers is a dumb idea, you should not be talking about Four Lokos. Again, caffeine is a very mild stimulant...unless you're Jessie Spano or something.

I apologize to other users in this thread. I will not post any more on this subject.

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason : I'M SO EXCITED.]

10/27/2010 12:28:23 PM

Quote :

"Fine. Move booze over to the permanent depressant category."

you mean where it belongs according to science? thanks for the concession

Quote :

"And, to be clear, you should not be emphasizing the phrase "in general" in your post and simultaneously claiming that you're only talking about Four Lokos...that don't make no sense."

it makes sense unless you do as you have chosen to do, which is interpret it outside of context...most people would consider the terms "uppers" and "downers" a reference to something more than chocolate cake...you have chosen to interpret my words in whatever way that allows you to backpedal from your complete lack of understanding

Quote :

"There are all different kinds of stimulants. And when you talk about how mixing uppers and downers is a dumb idea, you should not be talking about Four Lokos."

uh...yeah, i really should...it is, you know, the topic of the thread and the very thing that is causing such an uproar among parents, school administration, and politicians...again, you're not very good with this whole "context" thing

Quote :

"I apologize to other users in this thread. I will not post any more on this subject."

thank you! you were dumbing it up with your complete lack of understanding regarding the metabolism of alcohol and effects of caffeine on the body

i appreciate that you finally realized that...now run along and eat your chocolate cake

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 12:38:06 PM

It's almost too predictable.



This article is the creation of a vehicle to ban four lokos.

10/27/2010 12:45:17 PM

^ pretty much

10/27/2010 12:49:13 PM

^^^I lied about not posting again!

Yes, there's an uproar about it, and yet you're the only one describing the consumption of a Four Lokos as "combining uppers and downers." You're taking a concern of serious drug users and applying it inappropriately to caffeine.

Everybody I know has consumed caffeine to stay awake on a night out, and nobody worries about how they're mixing uppers and downers...well, because that's ridiculous.

10/27/2010 1:03:29 PM

Anybody who isn't a complete pussy has no problems mixing alcohol and caffeine, while it's technically mixing uppers and downers the REAL issue of mixing uppers and downers is when doing so can kill you (i.e. speedballing).

10/27/2010 1:15:07 PM

Quote :

"I lied about not posting again!"

of course you did

Quote :

"Yes, there's an uproar about it, and yet you're the only one describing the consumption of a Four Lokos as "combining uppers and downers.""

alcohol: downer (in that it's a depressant)
caffeine: upper (in that it's a stimulant)

i'm still not sure why you're confused...maybe your next statement will provide a clue!

Quote :

"You're taking a concern of serious drug users and applying it inappropriately to caffeine."

hmmm...you might have a point...let's check out the definition of "upper" as it pertains to stimulants, shall we?

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/upper : "stimulant"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper : "may refer to Stimulant drugs"

well, then, let's see what a stimulant is, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant : "Stimulants (also called psychostimulants) are psychoactive drugs which induce temporary improvements in either mental or physical function or both. Examples of these kinds of effects may include enhanced alertness, wakefulness, and locomotion, among others. Due to their effects typically having an "up" quality to them, stimulants are also occasionally referred to as "uppers"."

well, i don't trust wikipedia, do you? so let's see what else we can find

http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih3/alcohol/other/glossary.htm : "stimulant: A substance such as caffeine, nicotine, or amphetamines that temporarily arouses or accelerates physiological activity in the brain."

huh...well, i don't know what to tell you...sounds like you're just a dumb bitch with a learning disability

i wonder if you'll stay away now...nah

Quote :

"Anybody who isn't a complete pussy has no problems mixing alcohol and caffeine, while it's technically mixing uppers and downers the REAL issue of mixing uppers and downers is when doing so can kill you (i.e. speedballing)."

uh...i'm fairly certain drinking several four lokos CAN kill you...i mean, speedballing CAN kill you, but it doesn't always, does it?

the fact is that there is a perception of four loko as being a single drink...you know, like a can of beer or a glass of wine or a shot...while you and i are quite capable of understanding that this is not the case, there is no doubt that seeing one can of an alcoholic energy drink implies that it's one serving

4 four lokos in an hour might kill you while the odds are that 4 beers will not...i'm not at all saying that they should be banned...i'm simply pointing out that caffeine does two things that make it a dangerous addition to alcohol (compared to alcohol by itself):
1.) masks the effects of alcohol, thereby reducing a person's ability to correctly gauge their state
2.) increases the absorption of alcohol, thereby getting a person drunk faster

those two things together are problematic when combined with the perception that one four loko is just a single drink

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 1:18:12 PM

I really hope loliticians don't get anywhere with Four Lokos because of these dumbasses. In the same regard they could attack regular alcohol...its just in this case, Four Lokos is something new and different, which obviously means its the product's fault not these idiot kids.

10/27/2010 1:21:30 PM

Everytime I drink these I send ridiculous texts and one time I busted my nose open apparently and I have no idea how. I should obviously sue these guys for my pain and suffering and blame my idiocy on them amirite?

10/27/2010 1:29:28 PM

^ if the lady who spilled hot coffee on herself can beat mcdonald's, then surely you have a chance

10/27/2010 1:30:59 PM

We'll take the case!!

10/27/2010 1:32:34 PM

You make a point.. then they will have to put a disclaimer on cans that say "Do not consume and then smash your face into anything" and I will know that I am 'that' guy haha

10/27/2010 1:33:04 PM

^^^^^^

I've very clearly illustrated that I understand alcohol is a depressant and caffeine is a stimulant.

My point is that no normal person would actually refer to the drinking of a Four Lokos as "combining uppers and downers."

And by totally overstating the effects of the interaction in order to try to pwn me, you are making an excellent argument for banning the sale of Four Lokos. Good job.

10/27/2010 1:34:49 PM

Quote :

"i'm fairly certain drinking several four lokos CAN kill you...i mean, speedballing CAN kill you, but it doesn't always, does it?"

I suppose you could die from alcohol poisoning if you drank too many of them, but it would really be the alcohol that killed you and not the combination of alcohol and caffeine. You can make all the specious arguments you want about how combining alcohol and caffeine is dangerous, but alcohol is the dangerous part of the equation every time and it would be dangerous whether there's caffeine involved or not.

Quote :

"if the lady who spilled hot coffee on herself can beat mcdonald's,"

You realize that lady had 3rd degree burns on her ass, thighs and groin right? She deserved every penny she got from that lawsuit.

10/27/2010 1:38:39 PM

Quote :

"I've very clearly illustrated that I understand alcohol is a depressant and caffeine is a stimulant."

you've finally admitted that they are what they are, but what you've yet to demonstrate is that you understand their interaction with your body or with each other...i suspect it's beyond you

Quote :

"My point is that no normal person would actually refer to the drinking of a Four Lokos as "combining uppers and downers.""

that's a real shame, because that's exactly what's happening when you drink one...and that's exactly why they call it "blackout in a can"...and that's exactly why you can become trashed more quickly than with alcohol alone, all the while relatively unaware of its full effects until it hits home

considering the difference between this and "regular" alcoholic drink is SPECIFICALLY the addition of an "upper" (stimulant, if you will), i think your point is unsurprisingly retarded

Quote :

"totally overstating the effects of the interaction"

haha, okay...i'll keep science on my side and you keep your opinion on yours, k?

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0376-8716(00)00196-4
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0091-3057(93)90380-C
http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/h0048652
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=caffeine-merely-masks-alcohols-effe-09-12-08

Quote :

"try to pwn me"

i didn't just try, i actually did, kiddo

Quote :

"I suppose you could die from alcohol poisoning if you drank too many of them, but it would really be the alcohol that killed you and not the combination of alcohol and caffeine."

that's like saying that a 12-year old who shoots himself in the face with a gun while drunk is the gun's fault, not the alcohol's...when it comes down to it, it's the "fault" of the person making the poor choice, but you can't completely ignore the circumstances surrounding the event (like the parents who allow a 12-year old to get drunk...and yes, i realize it's an exaggeration the "fault" is clear, but you're the one that brought up causation)

Quote :

"You can make all the specious arguments you want about how combining alcohol and caffeine is dangerous, but alcohol is the dangerous part of the equation every time and it would be dangerous whether there's caffeine involved or not."

it's only specious when you completely ignore the addition of the caffeine to the alcohol and the inarguable effect that it has on a person's ability to gauge alcohol intake and its effects...so yeah, in your mind it's specious, but in the real world, my point is perfectly valid

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 1:47:20 PM

will you two just find a motel 6, bump uglies, and be over with it?


LESS ARGUING, MORE 4LOKO GLORY!

10/27/2010 1:51:48 PM

^^^ Of course the alcohol is what kills you, but it's the caffene that masks the alcohol's effects and tricks you into drinking more.

So yeah, the combination is more dangerous than just alcohol alone.

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 1:53 PM. Reason : ^]

10/27/2010 1:53:26 PM

Quote :

"will you two just find a motel 6, bump uglies, and be over with it?"

i'd lop off my own dick with a dull butter knife, first...BridgetSPK seems like the type to tear off and eat the head of the male when she's done mating

Quote :

"Of course the alcohol is what kills you, but it's the caffene that masks the alcohol's effects and tricks you into drinking more. So yeah, the combination is more dangerous than just alcohol alone."

that's my only point...and let me reiterate that i am NOT saying four loko should be banned and i am NOT assigning blame to the company

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 1:53:41 PM

Yeah I edited the ^'s

10/27/2010 1:55:42 PM

^^Are you kidding me?

Read our posts in this thread.

You have been cruel and insulting at every turn. And I'm the one tearing off heads after sex?

You are so obviously the bitch in this situation.

10/27/2010 1:58:15 PM

Quote :

"You have been cruel and insulting at every turn. And I'm the one tearing off heads after sex?"

oh, i never said i wasn't cruel or insulting...i'm just saying that you're batshit insane (or, at least, incapable of reading comprehension and/or understanding some basic human physiology)

Quote :

"You are so obviously the bitch in this situation."

aha, i got you to stoop to my level.

10/27/2010 2:01:46 PM

It should be evident that you're the one who has difficulty with reading comprehension (or perhaps you're just trolling?). I made it clear from the beginning that I know caffeine is a mild stimulant (I used the phrase "barely an upper"). And, if you'd been reading properly, you'd see that my whole point all along has been that you're taking a serious issue ("combining uppers and downers") and applying it way out of its connotative bounds.

And all I'm getting back from you is: Well, let me tell you something, little missy--you're a dumb bitch with a learning disability. Caffeine is an upper, and alcohol is a downer, and I've got the links to prove it so I'm technically correct. I'm not surprised your retarded little mind can't wrap itself around that. Maybe I should dumb it down for you.

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 2:27 PM. Reason : Am I getting trolled?]

10/27/2010 2:25:06 PM

The reason why people generally advise against mixing uppers and downers is because the actual interaction of the drugs can kill you not some 3 steps removed nonsense, like if you mix cocaine and heroin it might stop your heart. When you're arguing against mixing alcohol and caffeine it's all hypothetical, like your decision making will be impaired and you could do something stupid that would kill you.

10/27/2010 2:25:18 PM

Quote :

"It should be evident that you're the one who has difficulty with reading comprehension (or perhaps you're just trolling?). I made it clear from the beginning that I know caffeine is a mild stimulant (I used the phrase "barely an upper"). And, if you'd been reading properly, you'd see that my whole point all along has been that you're taking a serious issue ("combining uppers and downers") and applying it way out of its connotative bounds."

so...is your point that alchohol + caffeine in no way whatsoever creates a "serious" situation?

really?

Quote :

"And all I'm getting back from you is: Well, let me tell you something, little missy--you're a dumb bitch with a learning disability. Caffeine is an upper, and alcohol is a downer, and I've got the links to prove it so I'm technically correct. I'm not surprised your retarded little mind can't wrap itself around that. Maybe I should dumb it down for you."

i'm not only technically correct, but i'm also correct in this situation...the combination in this particular situation negatively affects a person's ability to reason beyond what would happen with one substance on its own...again, this isn't an opinion, it's a simple fact (simple for those of us that can understand it, anyway)

if you're complaining about my use of the terms "upper" and "downer," you are certainly within your right to think i've used them incorrectly, but the evidence supports my usage

Quote :

"The reason why people generally advise against mixing uppers and downers is because the actual interaction of the drugs can kill you not some 3 steps removed nonsense, like if you mix cocaine and heroin it might stop your heart. When you're arguing against mixing alcohol and caffeine it's all hypothetical, like your decision making will be impaired and you could do something stupid that would kill you."

i'm not sure what you're talking about...while i am quite aware that caffeine and alcohol do not interact directly to create any life-threatening compounds within your body, together they absolutely do create a situation in which your faculties are otherwise impaired more severely than they would be with either compound on their own...how is that hypothetical? it's science and i've got boatloads of evidence to support it...nothing i've said is incorrect in the slightest

i suppose we'll just have to say that we're at an impasse...because i have proven, several times, that combining alcohol (referring to it as a "downer" is grammatically correct) and caffeine (referring to as an "upper" is grammatically correct) makes for a MORE dangerous situation than just consuming one compound alone...i have given my opinion that it is dumb to do so...you can argue against my opinion, but arguing against the science is laughable

by all means, though, let's continue

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 2:40 PM. Reason : my grammar, however, is subpar today]

10/27/2010 2:39:24 PM

jesus you're fucking dense, the danger is what's hypothetical in this instance not that your judgment would be impaired

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 2:47:06 PM

Quote :

"the danger is what's hypothetical in this instance not that your judgment would be impaired"

uh...you don't think that significantly increased impairment corresponds in any way to increased danger? do you even understand the term "hypothetical"?

apparently i'm not the only one who's dense

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 2:51:55 PM

Quote :

" You realize that lady had 3rd degree burns on her ass, thighs and groin right? She deserved every penny she got from that lawsuit"

fucking retard

10/27/2010 2:53:49 PM

who can i sue if i make coffee and spill it on myself? the manufacturer of the mug i use? the coffemaker manufacturer? maybe the city who provides my water or stove manufacturer?

that women should have known the coffee was hot...i mean, you generally have to boil water to make hot coffee

10/27/2010 2:56:07 PM

Quote :

"you don't think that significantly increased impairment corresponds in any way to increased danger? "

It increases the RISK of danger sure



^^go fuck yourself

Quote :

"During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard. McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees. Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee. "

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 3:04:11 PM

BIG FUCKING FACEPALM



[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 3:07 PM. Reason : directed at quag]

10/27/2010 3:06:55 PM

Quote :

"together they absolutely do create a situation in which your faculties are otherwise impaired more severely than they would be with either compound on their own..."

quagmire02, this is not necessarily true fyi

10/27/2010 3:11:48 PM

Quote :

"It increases the RISK of danger sure"

since risk and danger are synonyms, i'm assuming you're now admitting that mixing caffeine and alcohol (and upper and a downer, by definition) increases danger

thanks for proving my point

Quote :

"BIG FUCKING FACEPALM"

ah, you don't understand science, either? because you haven't contributed anything else...

10/27/2010 3:12:27 PM

Quote :

"that women should have known the coffee was hot...i mean, you generally have to boil water to make hot coffee "

The point of the "hot coffee" case was that McDonald's served their coffee at a much, much higher temperature than deemed safe. I am not aware of the exact numbers right now, but I want to say that hot coffee was normally served at 160 F and McDonald's served their coffee at 250 F. This was because the corporation wanted the coffee to still be hot when the customer got home. The regulation temperature was in their mind too low. There had been numerous complaints and the company was basically told to serve their coffee at a lower temperature, but McDonald's knowingly disregarded the safety measures and served it at an unsafe temperature. The lady in question had her coffee spilled on her and was suing on the point that the injuries and ensuing surgery were damaging to her psyche, at the expense of McDonalds serving their hot coffee way, way too hot.

10/27/2010 3:12:29 PM

Quote :

"The point of the "hot coffee" case was that McDonald's served their coffee at a much, much higher temperature than deemed safe. I am not aware of the exact numbers right now, but I want to say that hot coffee was normally served at 160 F and McDonald's served their coffee at 250 F"

it was absolutely not served at above-boiling temperatures as that would be impossible

10/27/2010 3:15:47 PM

Quote :

"ah, you don't understand science, either? because you haven't contributed anything else..."

I don't really have time to respond to all the jumping around you've been doing, or your trolling.

10/27/2010 3:15:47 PM

Quote :

"I don't really have time to respond to all the jumping around you've been doing, or your trolling."

haha, okay...i'll translate for you:

"i can't actually point out anything you've said that's wrong, but i disagree with you because i always disagree with you and i'll be damned if i'm going to admit that the evidence you provide proves anything"

10/27/2010 3:17:02 PM

Fine, I will revisit this thread to make you happy. I have far too much halloween celebration planning and work to get done to do it now.

10/27/2010 3:18:42 PM

^^You keep talking about science proves your point, but the only evidence I've seen you post are 3 broken links and a Scientific American podcast about giving coffee to drunk monkeys.

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 3:19:33 PM

what do i know?

im only getting a doctorate in this stuff.

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 3:24 PM. Reason : im out]

10/27/2010 3:24:00 PM

Quote :

"You keep talking about science proves your point, but the only evidence I've seen you post are 3 broken links and a Scientific American podcast about giving coffee to drunk monkeys."

actually, it's only two broken links (the third opens for me)...but you're right about the first two and so i'll fix them for you:

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0376-8716(00)00196-4
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0091-3057(93)90380-C

you obviously didn't read anything, though...in any case, are you saying that my statements regarding the effects of alcohol, caffeine, and the combination of both on the body are incorrect? please, say what you mean to...are you disagreeing with my assertions regarding human physiology and the compounds in question or aren't you?

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 3:24:05 PM

Quote :

"it was absolutely not served at above-boiling temperatures as that would be impossible "

maybe McDonalds put some crazy boiling-point elevation chemicals in their coffee too

Regardless, it was over regulation temperature

10/27/2010 3:31:05 PM

yeah, it was freaking hot

i guess i still put the clumsiness on the part of the customer...IIRC, she spilled it on herself (rather than having it spilled on her by an employee)

10/27/2010 3:40:43 PM

I think we all need to just sit back, drink a four loko, and relax guys

10/27/2010 3:44:15 PM

if i had one and weren't at work, i'd certainly try one

10/27/2010 3:46:44 PM

all it takes is one.


those things are potent.

10/27/2010 3:48:29 PM

let me rephrase: i would TASTE one...i can't imagine it tastes like anything but crap, like the vast majority of malt beverages that created solely for the purposes of getting women drunk

10/27/2010 3:51:20 PM

Yep one for buzzed two for hammered.. at least for me

10/27/2010 3:52:14 PM

jt, cody, and i walked a mile to the gas station. bought one apiece and walked back. funnest walk ever.

i took this picture

10/27/2010 3:53:25 PM

Interesting read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants

10/27/2010 3:54:24 PM