plaxico burress was arrested for shooting himself

3/22/2012 7:01:34 PM

what would you tell your kids to do if a stranger was following them?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:03 PM. Reason : ??]

3/22/2012 7:01:43 PM

I'm sure Tacolu would tell his children to grab the strangers genitals and ask for candy. Why? Because it makes no fucking sense.

3/22/2012 7:04:06 PM

run faster

3/22/2012 7:04:07 PM

If they were in their gated neighborhood I wouldn't expect my teenage son to just take off running.

Has anyone considered that this kid might have actually been doing something illegal while walking home from the store and fled because he thought he was in trouble? Probably not.

3/22/2012 7:04:53 PM

Running is a crime, punishable by death.
Got it.

And yeah... I know tons of people that talk on the phone with their girlfriend while going to commit a crime.

I also know tons of people that physically attack strangers with a can of ice tea in their hand

all plausible right?

for fuck's sake...might as well throw the possibility out there that Trayvon was trying to carjack Zimmerman. I don't even know why he was walking...the kid could have had wings and could have flown away.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:08 PM. Reason : s]

3/22/2012 7:05:27 PM

Yes, we know that now.

But Zimmerman's state of mind at the time was that he was following a criminal.

Which you apparently cant understand.

All you hear is "black unarmed teenager shot by white man"

You are blinded by your racism and can't even fathom that there might be a reason for him shooting Trayvon.

Accidents happen, as do misunderstandings.

Plenty of cops have shot unarmed suspects and even innocent people in situations just like this.

It happens.

3/22/2012 7:10:56 PM

His state of mind has to be REASONABLE to be relevant though.

3/22/2012 7:11:47 PM

terpball since you chose to ignore me the first time, I'll post it again:

Quote :

"You fucking idiot. A DEAD UNARMED BODY WITNESSES MULTIPLE 911 CALLS A MOTHERFUCKING CONFESSION FROM THE KILLER"

Dead unnarmed body? Yes, we know that now, but at the time Zimmerman did not know. Like I said, during the altercation perhaps Trayvon was going for his cell phone and Zimmerman mistook it for a gun and shot him in self defense.

Witnesses? Oh really? What witnesses are these that saw the shooting happen? As far as Ive read, nobody saw it happen, which is part of the cluster fuck, so what are these witnesses that you speak of?

911 calls, yep, there sure are, even Zimmerman made one himself. Another one describes someone yelling for help, which can neither be identified as ZImmerman or Trayvon.

Confessions? Yep, Zimmerman isn't denying that he shot and killed the kid.

What's your point?

Quote :

"His state of mind has to be REASONABLE to be relevant though."

I and apparently the cops agree, that following a presumed suspect in order to establish location for the cops to confront said suspect is entirely reasonable.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:13 PM. Reason : ;]

3/22/2012 7:11:55 PM

People get arrested in this country for "accidents" like this

3/22/2012 7:13:20 PM

Zimmerman claims he was attacked by Trayvon.

And as fucked up as it is, it really can't be proven that he wasn't.

I agree that that is messed up beyond everything, but as sad as it is, it's the cops job to prove him wrong on that count, which they can't do.

3/22/2012 7:14:50 PM

Somebody told me the guy was drunk. I haven't read that anywhere. But he definitely sounds drunk in his 911 call.

I'm saying...drunk guy sitting in his car with a gun waiting for young black males to do something "suspicious." That's a disaster right there. Obviously, he is culpable for his actions and whatnot. But the people around him should feel kinda bad for not stepping in and getting the idiot vigilante some help.

A fat racist drinking beers in his Honda or whatever is no Charles Bronson.

3/22/2012 7:20:40 PM

Quote :

"I and apparently the cops agree, that following a presumed suspect in order to establish location for the cops to confront said suspect is entirely reasonable. "

I don't think that's quite the case. Obviously the 911 operator didn't think it was reasonable. He was told not to pursue the "suspect" and in fact, they have turned over the details of the investigation to the DA's office to see whether or not to make an arrest. They aren't saying this is an open and shut case of self defense.

"He called 911 to report suspicious activity in the neighborhood nearly 50 times in the last year, the Herald reports."

3/22/2012 7:21:22 PM

I guess the cops should just take Zimmerman's word for it, even though all the evidence contradicts his story. Nope, he shouldn't have to argue self-defense in court... the cops should just take Zimmerman's word even though it makes no fucking sense... yep.

Idiot

3/22/2012 7:22:40 PM

The cops don't want to be involved in this shit. You can't take their non-action as a sign of innocence or guilt. It's not that they can't arrest him....they just don't want to because they know what a clusterfuck the current "stand your ground" law is. They just don't want to touch this.


That's why they turned this over to the attorney general. And even the attorney general didn't want to soil his hands with this shit. So he turned it over to a grand jury.

Keep making up irrational stories though. You seem good at it.

3/22/2012 7:24:36 PM

^^^^^I think you have that backwards. The prosecution needs to prove Zimmerman shot Trayvon... which nobody doubts. It's up to Zimmerman and his lawyers to prove that he was justified in shooting Trayvon. Otherwise you could just go around murdering people and claim you were attacked in each instance.

And in order to show force was justified:

Quote :

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

So Zimmerman needs to prove that an unarmed minor (who he was stalking) weighing 100lb less than him was likely to kill or cause "great bodily harm" to Zimmerman. Good luck with that.

None of this explains why he wasn't arrested immediately.

3/22/2012 7:31:44 PM

^Exactly, IF Zimmerman thought Trayvon was reaching for a gun instead of his cell phone, that would be reasonable force.

3/22/2012 7:34:39 PM

Has Zimmerman ever made that statement? "I thought the cell phone was a gun?"

Reasonableness can go away too, once he holds that phone up to his head and talks to his girlfriend, and it's clear it's not a gun.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 7:35:15 PM

Given the laws in Florida, this is the same as if one of us shot an intruder into our home.

The evidence as it stands, shows that I shot the intruded out of fear for my safety.

I'm not going to be arrested on the spot and put on trial to prove my innocence.

The cops are going to have to prove that I murdered the guy instead of defending myself.

Every single time someone is killed the person who killed them isn't always automatically arrested.

Quote :

"Has Zimmerman ever made that statement? "I thought the cell phone was a gun?" Reasonableness can go away too, once he holds that phone up to his head and talks to his girlfriend, and it's clear it's not a gun. "

Again, we dont know, I was giving an example, and at this point its obvious he either said something like that or something happened or the guy would more than likely be in jail.

It's a little more complicated than "Oh I just shot that kid cause he was black"

Something happened and whatever Zimmerman has told them hasn't been released.

We can only assume, and since he hasn't been arrested thats a safe assumption that its more than likely something along those lines.

I mean in the struggle, perhaps during the fight he is reaching for the cell phone he has dropped but Zimmerman reasonably thinks he is going for a gun.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:40 PM. Reason : ,]

3/22/2012 7:37:15 PM

^^Right, he was talking on the phone well before he was shot.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:38 PM. Reason : d]

3/22/2012 7:37:41 PM

They might not be automatically arrested, but you have the burden of proof backwards. Self Defense is a DEFENSE. You don't have to assert a defense if you are not charged.

3/22/2012 7:38:06 PM

Does the term Affirmative Defense mean anything to you? Covered that several pages back.

Onus of self defense is going to be on Zimmerman.

3/22/2012 7:40:21 PM

Quote :

"^^Right, he was talking on the phone well before he was shot."

So its not reasonable to think someone could have a cell phone and gun on them?

3/22/2012 7:42:10 PM

Quote :

"^Exactly, IF Zimmerman thought Trayvon was reaching for a gun instead of his cell phone, that would be reasonable force."

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:44 PM. Reason : Your post, not mine.]

3/22/2012 7:44:23 PM

maybe Zimmerman thought Trayvon's hands looked like a gun?

You know, because he's black. And black hands look like guns?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUGlH46cpWc

3/22/2012 7:46:27 PM

Quote :

"I guess the cops should just take Zimmerman's word for it, even though all the evidence contradicts his story. Nope, he shouldn't have to argue self-defense in court... the cops should just take Zimmerman's word even though it makes no fucking sense... yep. Idiot"

WHAT EVIDENCE????? You keep talking about all this evidence that proves him guilty of just killing the kid in cold blood yet you never list any of it.

3/22/2012 7:47:07 PM

Evidence supporting murder:

1) There's a dead kid
2) Zimmerman shot him
3) 911 calls confirm that he was following him
4) neighbors identify Zimmerman as the aggressor
5) Girlfriends testimony corroborates with eye witness accounts
6) The police did not do a toxicity test on Zimmerman (they're supposed to)
7) Zimmerman has called 911 over 50 times in the past year
8) Zimmerman first claimed that Trayvon attacked him from behind in the Miami Herald...this could not have happened according to eyewitness testimony
9) Trayvon was unarmed, and 100 pounds lighter than Zimmerman, and 11 years younger.
10) Zimmerman's 911 call "they always get away" and "fucking coons"
11) Zimmerman has been previously arrested for assaulting an officer, and then had that charge dropped.
12) Police corrected witness testimony.



Evidence supporting Self defense:

1) Zimmerman's story.




Fucking arrest the guy, already. Jesus

3/22/2012 7:56:14 PM

It's just extraordinarily bizarre that he wasn't charged. When men stalk and kill children, they usually get arrested for it.

And I don't think any of us were aware that if you called 911 before you killed a kid or that if your neighborhood had recently seen a rise in a "certain element" (), that you get a free pass to follow people with a gun and use it to shoot them.

Women with a documented history of being abused who kill their husbands are questioned more than this neighborhood watch character...WTF?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 7:59 PM. Reason : I'm bored. Sorry for butting in.]

3/22/2012 7:57:06 PM

Unarmed dead person
Zimmerman's admission of the shooting
911 calls
Witnesses


These all indicate a questionable claim of self defense, which is more than enough to at least arrest Zimmerman.

But no. The police didn't even take him in for questioning. Not so much as a drug test. The police took his word for it all, and then claimed they were prohibited from arresting Zimmerman.

3/22/2012 7:57:47 PM

3/22/2012 7:59:07 PM

Quote :

"Evidence supporting murder:"

1) There's a dead kid - A dead body does not automatically prove that an arrestable crime has occured.
2) Zimmerman shot him - Nobody is arguing that
3) 911 calls confirm that he was following him - Not illegal, nobody is denying this
4) neighbors identify Zimmerman as the aggressor - Agressor or other subject?
5) Girlfriends testimony corroborates with eye witness accounts - Oh really? Which eye witnesses?
6) The police did not do a toxicity test on Zimmerman (they're supposed to) - Lack of evicence is not evidence
7) Zimmerman has called 911 over 50 times in the past year - Not illegal or evidence of guilt of murder
8) Zimmerman first claimed that Trayvon attacked him from behind in the Miami Herald...this could not have happened according to eyewitness testimony - Witnesses can lie
9) Trayvon was unarmed, and 100 pounds lighter than Zimmerman, and 11 years younger. - While relevant, still doesn't mean that Zimmerman wasn't threatened.
10) Zimmerman's 911 call "they always get away" and "fucking coons" - Yes, the criminals have gotten away. Calling someone a coon is not a crime.
11) Zimmerman has been previously arrested for assaulting an officer, and then had that charge dropped. - Nothing to do with evidence in this case.
12) Police corrected witness testimony.

So where is the actual evidence you speak of?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:12 PM. Reason : /]

3/22/2012 8:02:35 PM

not very good at connecting dots, I see

3/22/2012 8:03:45 PM

by the way, cops need probable cause to make an arrest. They have that. make the arrest. let the courts settle the rest

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:05 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 8:04:21 PM

Yep, but the cops are, thats why he hasn't been arrested yet.

Here's some evidence for you.

From the police report.

Quote :

"Update at 5:47 p.m. ET: USA TODAY's Marisol Bello has more about the 911 calls and other documents the city posted on its website (see 4:26 p.m. update): CAPTIONBy Martin family via AP In one of the panicked calls by neighbors, a 30-year-old woman tells the dispatcher she heard a man screaming and saw a man with a white T-shirt on top of someone else. She couldn't tell the race of the person or see the person he was on top of. The police report released by the city says Martin was wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans and white and red sneakers. Zimmerman, the police report said, was wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. CAPTIONBy Orange County, Fla., Jail, via AP The police officer who wrote the report said in it, "I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head." The report continued, "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of the my police vehicle and was given first aid by SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state, 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.""

Now, Zimmerman was on his back at some point, was struck in the nose and head hard enough to cause them to bleed.

This doesn't paint the pretty racial hate crime of cornering the kid and gunning him down in cold blood now does it?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:06 PM. Reason : m]

3/22/2012 8:05:57 PM

So, if I meet you, provoke you, and you start kicking my ass, I have the legal authority to kill you?

Awesome.

3/22/2012 8:08:20 PM

I wonder if you'd be in here white-knighting Trayvon if he had successfully defended himself and killed Zimmerman in the process.



Probably not.

3/22/2012 8:09:20 PM

Quote :

"So, if I meet you, provoke you, and you start kicking my ass, I have the legal authority to kill you? Awesome."

According to the state of Florida you do.

I'm not agreeing with it, Im trying to show some of you WHY HE HASN'T BEEN ARRESTED YET.

That law is one of the many fucked up situations in this case.

3/22/2012 8:10:24 PM

Quote :

"According to the state of Florida you do."

Can you post a copy of the law that states that?

3/22/2012 8:11:50 PM

Quote :

"According to the state of Florida you do."

No, this isn't true. The stand your ground law doesn't give you the right to provoke or act as the aggressor. He still needs to prove that he was attacked completely unprovoked.


I know you want it to be one way....

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 8:14:25 PM

It doesn't matter, he was following what he perceived to be a criminal. At this point, its not unprovoked. He just didn't walk up to someone and start a fight.

He has stated that he gave up his search and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked by Trayvon.

At this point, he has every right to defend himself, and he did.

Hell, this guy got off the hook and he basically chased the suspect down and killed him.

Quote :

"Under the National Rifle Association-backed Florida law passed in 2005, Florida, unlike most other states, grants immunity from prosecution or arrest to suspects who successfully invoke the "stand your ground" claim. And if a suspect is arrested and charged, a judge can throw out the case well before trial based on a self-defense claim. That happened Wednesday in an unrelated case. A Miami judge dismissed a second-degree murder case, citing the Stand Your Ground law and ruling that 25-year-old Greyston Garcia’s testimony about self-defense was credible. The Miami Herald reported that Garcia was charged after chasing down and stabbing to death a 26-year-old suspected burglar in January."

That wasn't even a threat to this guy any more and he chased the suspected burglar down, killed him, and had the charges dropped.

3/22/2012 8:19:17 PM

At least that guy was charged.

Quote :

"tacolu: According to the state of Florida you do. I'm not agreeing with it, Im trying to show some of you WHY HE HASN'T BEEN ARRESTED YET. That law is one of the many fucked up situations in this case."

?

No, the fucked up thing is that he hasn't been arrested. This isn't some new and unusual case that the police don't know how to handle. The usual way of things is pretty simple: the police arrest him, the jury hears the evidence, agrees he's full of shit, and convicts him.

Quit acting like there's some exceptional facts here that makes this special. The only thing special is that he hasn't been arrested yet.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:22 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 8:21:39 PM

tacolu, let me see if I understand. Basically what you're saying is that anyone can go around murdering whoever they want. It's up to the cops to prove that they weren't attacked by the people they murdered (which is almost always impossible, since those people are dead).

You stalked your victims? Doesn't matter.
You spoke ill about your victims? Doesn't matter.
You've assaulted law enforcement officers in the past? Doesn't matter.
Your victims were unarmed and unlikely to harm you. Doesn't matter. You might have still felt threatened.
Witnesses dispute your claim? Doesn't matter. Witnesses lie.

With this logic, I don't think it's possible for anyone to ever be convicted of murder or even arrested for that matter.

3/22/2012 8:23:44 PM

Once again, take this situation into account since some of you don't understand how this works.

Quote :

"You are on the way home from work and hear on the news that a bank has been robbed and they describe the suspect. You are walking down the sidewalk and call 911 and tail the guy while on the phone with the cops so you can tell them where he is going. Is this illegal? No. Stupid. Yes. While following the suspected suspect, that person becomes aware that you are following them. They are like "WTF, why is this guy following me, and they hide, then jump out and confront you with a knife. Fearing for your safety and life, and since you have a CWP you whip out your gun and shoot the bank robber dead. Only it turns out he wasn't the bank robber and you just shot an innocent guy who was protecting himself from someone who was "chasing" him."

You seriously think you were the aggressor and should be arrested even though it was self defense?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:25 PM. Reason : m]

3/22/2012 8:25:03 PM

Quote :

"He has stated that he gave up his search and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked by Trayvon. "

Almost everything else says that he confronted Trayvon.
Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard Zimmerman confront him, and push him.


At the very least, this conflicting account of what happened would cause any competent police officer to doubt a claim of self-defense and arrest Zimmerman.

3/22/2012 8:25:15 PM

Quote :

"They are like "WTF, why is this guy following me, and they hide, then jump out and confront you with a knife. "

See, I missed the part in this case where the kid jumped out and confronted him with a knife.

3/22/2012 8:26:04 PM

Quote :

"Almost everything else says that he confronted Trayvon. Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard Zimmerman confront him, and push him."

Oh really?" What else?

Yes, she says that. Not saying she is lying, but its basically her word against his.

Her BF just got killed by this dude. You don't think its possible that she is lying?

A defense attorney would rip her apart.

Quote :

"See, I missed the part in this case where the kid jumped out and confronted him with a knife. "

In this case, the "knife" is the cell phone that Zimmerman COULD have mistaken for a gun.

It's an example. I'm not saying thats what happened.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:28 PM. Reason : . ]

3/22/2012 8:26:37 PM

hahahahahahaha

and we're back to making up imaginary shit.


^ quote the rest of that post. it's important. it will keep you from asking stupid questions.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:28 PM. Reason : a]

3/22/2012 8:27:22 PM

Quote :

"See, I missed the part in this case where the kid jumped out and confronted him with a knife."

3/22/2012 8:28:08 PM

If it comes down to a he said, she said, I would imagine that the person who didn't commit murder would be believed before the person who just killed a kid.


I mean, seriously, you've got some mickey-mouse logic, holmes.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 8:29 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 8:28:21 PM

Quote :

"In this case, the "knife" is the cell phone that Zimmerman COULD have mistaken for a gun."

You mean the one he had held up to his ear while he was talking to his girlfriend? Cause I do that with my gun all the time.

Also, you never posted that law I asked for.

3/22/2012 8:29:16 PM