^and are free to send in more if they wish. Talk is cheap, write the check then.

10/2/2012 6:23:41 PM

High taxes on the poor and a politically powerful church that siphoned public money for its own interests were some of the major causes of the French Revolution.

10/2/2012 6:23:56 PM

10/2/2012 6:29:13 PM

Mitt Romney paid more in taxes than he needs to, thus Mitt Romney wants higher taxes

Is the conclusion of eyedrb's statement

10/2/2012 6:33:13 PM

^and was made fun of for doing so. How many of those who feel THEY should pay more in taxes actually pay more? Like I said, talk is cheap, write the check.

10/2/2012 6:34:56 PM

Because they don't need to in order for their opinion to not be hypocritical

My post have been a little more than you can wrap your head around

10/2/2012 6:59:57 PM

Quote :

"I'd call any such estimates put forth without the context of time period as intentionally misleading. you can extend a program with a certain annual spend out to infinity and come up with a BIG SCARY NUMBER to make libertarians grind their teeth and wring their hands."

It's not meant to be misleading. It's the money supposed to be paid out to the people currently alive, based on expected lifespan and assuming no drastic changes in cost of living. It doesn't even count the people not yet born. If we're going to muddle along with zero percent interest rates and have slow to moderate growth like Japan, where is the extra revenue going to come from? Is there going to be some kind of burst of productivity coming up that you know about?

Unfunded liabilities are the elephant in the room, and no politician is going to touch the subject, because as soon as they do, they get blasted as being anti-medicare, anti-elderly, and all the other labels that make you instantly unelectable. I'm not even preaching hyperinflation, economic collapse doomsday here. I'm simply pointing out that there are serious long term problems with government programs. Anyone that sits down and looks at the numbers can tell you that.

An inherent flaw with our system is that politicians are not equipped or willing to deal with long term problems where the solutions involve short term pain. That's why even the alleged "budget hawks" aren't cutting anything out of the current or next year's budget.

10/2/2012 8:18:34 PM

Uhh, you do preach doomsday collapse and hyper inflation

10/2/2012 8:25:24 PM

No, I really don't. There was a time when I thought I knew how things would play out, but I don't, and no one does. Hyperinflation is a possible scenario. I do think a drop in the standard of living in the U.S. relative to the rest of the world is a near certainty since the status of world reserve currency gives us access to a shitload of credit that would not otherwise be there. That status, I believe, is unsustainable. I simply can't see a Bretton Woods #2 being accepted by the rest of the world. Not with the ascension of China.

[Edited on October 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM. Reason : ]

10/2/2012 8:31:57 PM

I must be confusing you with someone else then

10/2/2012 8:32:39 PM

I just found out Romney takes the cheese off his pizza. That might be enough to hate the man.

10/3/2012 1:01:03 PM

breathing the same air is reason enough to hate him.

10/3/2012 1:38:44 PM

http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/1111/Romney_jogs_every_morning_eats_cheeseless_pizza.html

10/3/2012 1:47:33 PM

Quote :

"plenty of americans support higher taxes"

i would gladly pay higher taxes if it meant universal education and healthcare

10/3/2012 1:48:12 PM

i wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if i knew that a lot of it wasn't wasted on inefficient bureacracy

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 1:50 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 1:50:37 PM

you can pay higher taxes all you want. just send in the extra amount you want to pay. I'd rather not give my charity to the government.

so tell me what is so great about universal healthcare and education?

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 1:54:18 PM

I hate this "I don't mind paying higher taxes" or "I wouldn't mind if my taxes went up" bullshit. If you feel that way, THEN PAY ALL YOU WANT. Quit wanting the government to force the rest of us to pay them for wasteful wars, social programs, unchecking spending, bankers, oil companies, undeserved raises, undeserved pensions, and flights to go see susie rotten crotch.

Until every single one of you "I love taxes" dicks is paying the maximum amount you can afford to pay, then don't speak a word of wanting other people's taxes to go up.


[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 1:57:03 PM

I want my taxes to pay for world peace...

10/3/2012 2:00:07 PM

Yep. WE LOVE TAXES!!!! That's what we said!

10/3/2012 2:00:54 PM

its not hypocritical or logically incongruous to recognize that our tax rates are very low, be okay with paying more, but not want to pay more than you are required to.

I can try to explain why if you need me to, but I'm assuming someone who is able to make it through life is able to understand this and is just being difficult for the purpose of not conceding the point.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:02 PM. Reason : BOLD]

10/3/2012 2:01:36 PM

You might think our taxes are low. I might think they're high. It doesn't matter. If you want more government, more spending, and more taxes, then put your money where you mouth is and donate to the government.

10/3/2012 2:02:59 PM

its not hypocritical or logically incongruous to recognize that our tax rates are very low, be okay with paying more, but not want to pay more than you are required to.

is that better for you?

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:04 PM. Reason : ?]

10/3/2012 2:03:53 PM

Quote :

"so tell me what is so great about universal healthcare and education?"

if you don't understand how a healthier, more educated populace is more beneficial for society as a whole, you're far too stupid for me to waste time explaining it to you

Quote :

"I hate this "I don't mind paying higher taxes" or "I wouldn't mind if my taxes went up" bullshit. If you feel that way, THEN PAY ALL YOU WANT. Quit wanting the government to force the rest of us to pay them for wasteful wars, social programs, unchecking spending, bankers, oil companies, undeserved raises, undeserved pensions, and flights to go see susie rotten crotch. Until every single one of you "I love taxes" dicks is paying the maximum amount you can afford to pay, then don't speak a word of wanting other people's taxes to go up."

i will pay for the most beautiful hooker in the world to suck your cock, at your command, for the rest of your life, if you can point out where i said i wanted to pay higher taxes specifically for wasteful wars, unchecked spending, bankers, oil companies, undeserved raises, undeserved pensions, or flights to see susie rotten crotch

10/3/2012 2:04:59 PM

Quote :

"so tell me what is so great about universal healthcare and education? "

For one thing, we would not have to waste time answering dumb questions from uneducated people

10/3/2012 2:06:07 PM

So you don't really believe in the causes that higher taxes supposedly benefit, you just want to see other people's required taxes go up?

Quote :

"will pay for the most beautiful hooker in the world to suck your cock, at your command, for the rest of your life, if you can point out where i said i wanted to pay higher taxes specifically for wasteful wars, unchecked spending, bankers, oil companies, undeserved raises, undeserved pensions, or flights to see susie rotten crotch"

You don't get to choose where your tax money goes. The government isn't going to right the ship, or change drastically because you pay more in taxes. You pay more, they spend more, and spend it on the same old shit. So if you want more taxes, you are essentially giving into the government's waste and consenting to it.

when will she be delivered?

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:06:29 PM

Quote :

"You might think our taxes are low. I might think they're high. It doesn't matter. If you want more government, more spending, and more taxes, then put your money where you mouth is and donate to the government."

Depends on how much you make. If you make under 250,000 a year, they are pretty high. If you make over that, they are (historically speaking) incredibly low. If you are pulling over a million a year, they are rock bottom.

I don't want more government and more spending. I want us to pay back our outstanding debts and start investing in the future (education and infrastructure). Both of which require MORE revenue even after re-appropriating wasteful spending (foreign conflicts, federal pensions, et al).

10/3/2012 2:08:15 PM

^^you're being silly. if you want a real conversation, quit being a dick.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 2:08:39 PM

Quote :

"So you don't really believe in the causes that higher taxes supposedly benefit, you just want to see other people's required taxes go up?"

i noted those items i would voluntarily pay higher taxes for...did you skim over that part in your haste to cry about paying taxes altogether?

10/3/2012 2:08:48 PM

This is not universal healthcare, it is not socialism (or communism)

It is corporatization, privatization, its a conservative created plan (Heritage Foundation) and a conservatives dream. Republicans are only mad because Obama passed something.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:10:05 PM

^^that wasn't to you.

And I'll continue to bitch about any taxes or tax increases under our current government. Until the government is essentially replaced and reformed, our tax dollars will go to shit and our government will continue to spend beyond their means. So no, I don't support any tax or any tax increase because it is not being used fairly, properly, or for the people.

So cry all you want to about tax rates being too low and needing higher taxes because we need the money for "xx" program(s); well higher taxes just means more bullshit spending.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:12 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:10:05 PM

Quote :

"Depends on how much you make. If you make under 250,000 a year, they are pretty high. If you make over that, they are (historically speaking) incredibly low. If you are pulling over a million a year, they are rock bottom. "

WOW

10/3/2012 2:11:39 PM

Quote :

"You don't get to choose where your tax money goes."

We're speaking in hypotheticals here man. Read the comments. Someone mentioned they wouldn't mind higher taxes if it was spent on healthcare and universal education. Someone else mentioned that they wouldn't mind higher taxes if so much wasn't wasted through inefficient bureaucracy. We're just talking here man. Nobody said they want to spend more tax money to fight more wars and for undeserved pensions and raises. Nobody said "We Love Taxes!" or "Taxes should be raised tomorrow!". You're being irrational.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 2:13:47 PM

Quote :

"i noted those items i would voluntarily pay higher taxes for...did you skim over that part in your haste to cry about paying taxes altogether? "

What you are failing to recongnize is once they take your money you lose the option of saying where it should go, or withdrawing from programs you are opposed to.

You want people to receive free healthcare, make a donation to several charities that help provide that. You want people to get cheaper education, send money to a school or start a scholarship. Your money will go directly where you would like it to go. In fact, if you could keep MORE of the money YOU earned, you could send even more if you wished.

10/3/2012 2:14:32 PM

^^and I bet many of those same people would still be in favor a high tax rates today, with no new, reformed, or improved programs, entitlements, or benefits.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ^^]

10/3/2012 2:15:22 PM

Quote :

"its not hypocritical or logically incongruous to recognize that our tax rates are very low, be okay with paying more, but not want to pay more than you are required to."

let me try to explain.

I recognize (being not a moron) that our taxes are very low historically and compared to other nations. But even if I didn't, I would still be okay with somewhat higher taxes if that helped reduce national debt and I received some benefit in the form of more stable or expanded social programs.

I could go it alone (as you are suggesting) and pay a few percent more than I am required for taxes, but this added contribution by myself would have no financial impact in any measureable way in relation to federal revenue. I could give them every penny I made and it wouldn't benefit the government in anyway. However, as I laid out in the first paragraph I am okay with somewhat higher taxes, what I do want to do is have the requirement meet my acceptance level so that everyone pays just a little bit more so that the items in paragraph 1 receive a benefit.

But in the case of Romney, its worth noting that my tax burden under his proposal is actually higher than under Obama. So for the sake of this thread, its moot. Also, some of you are dumb

pwnt

10/3/2012 2:16:18 PM

^^probably, a ton of envy these days. President really taps into it with his "fairness". Look how much Mitt Romney makes... LOL

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

^then you would start with collecting some income taxes from the 47% who pay none?

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:16:54 PM

Quote :

"^^and I bet many of those same people would still be in favor a high tax rates today, with no new, reformed, or improved programs, entitlements, or benefits."

That's a response to my comment? I'm sorry, I don't understand your point.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:18 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 2:17:09 PM

Quote :

"I bet many of those same people would still be in favor a high tax rates today, with no new, reformed, or improved programs, entitlements, or benefits."

not even a little bit...not anyone...not anywhere

10/3/2012 2:17:32 PM

Either candidate's tax plans are bullshit, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up right now. And let me re-explain. No matter what your fairy tale mind dreams up; even if "new" or "improved" programs are added by the government, your higher tax rates will go to shit.

so none of you support any current plans on tax increases??

the point is, is that your want for hire taxes isn't necessarily tied to your dreams of socialist programs.

Quote :

"I could go it alone (as you are suggesting) and pay a few percent more than I am required for taxes, but this added contribution by myself would have no financial impact in any measureable way in relation to federal revenue. I could give them every penny I made and it wouldn't benefit the government in anyway. However, as I laid out in the first paragraph I am okay with somewhat higher taxes, what I do want to do is have the requirement meet my acceptance level so that everyone pays just a little bit more so that the items in paragraph 1 receive a benefit."

Hey man, every penny counts. You want higher taxes for xxx program, great. I want lower taxes and for xxx program to go away. And still, under your "just raise'em a little so I can get another social program in" scenario, there is still no control over the tax money. The program will be improperly run, underfunded, stolen from, and your higher tax dollars will go to pay for foreign wars, oval office BJs, and pensions for 1 termers.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:19:54 PM

Nobody's said that they want higher taxes.

10/3/2012 2:22:34 PM

No candidate has plans for tax increases

10/3/2012 2:23:23 PM

^^uh, yeh you all have. multiple times.
^oh rry?

10/3/2012 2:25:22 PM

Just look at the numbers the entitlement wave is going to really put us in debt, and they wont even touch it. Hell Ryan's plan only addresses it after teh boomers go through and the left are jumping all over him for it.

We currently dont have enough revenue to pay for mandatory spending (entitlements and servicing the debt) Both are set to boom as the boomers move on these programs and we borrow to pay for EVERYTHING else. Expanding these entitlments is not an option, but about the only thing Obama has done.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 2:27:39 PM

Quote :

"^^uh, yeh you all have. multiple times"

this must be where the confusion lies.

I've seen people say: "I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if _____".

Apparently, you interpret that as: "I want to start paying higher taxes tomorrow".

10/3/2012 2:27:40 PM

Quote :

"uh, yeh you all have. multiple times."

i, for one, never said i WANT higher taxes...i said i would PAY higher taxes if they directly supported universal healthcare and education

if there were some magical way of getting quality, universal healthcare and education without paying higher taxes, i'd happily do that, too

there's a HUGE difference between WANTING to pay higher taxes just for shits and giggle and being WILLING to pay them in return for programs i support

10/3/2012 2:28:28 PM

it's saying they want to pay higher taxes. You can say for "whatever"; that doesn't matter. Higher taxes = higher taxes. and higher taxes = more spending. it's not a solution; it's not a way to gain programs and not negatively impact the balance sheet.

10/3/2012 2:29:36 PM

you're irrational, man. you're arguing against statements that were never made.

10/3/2012 2:32:11 PM

10/3/2012 2:33:16 PM

Quote :

"it's not a way to gain programs and not negatively impact the balance sheet."

gotta pay to play

life ain't free

10/3/2012 2:33:43 PM

It's disturbing that people believe, with almost religious fervor, that more money going into the hands of the government will translate into good results. The idea is that if the government takes more money for "education", kids will get a better education, and if the government takes more money for "health care", people will be healthier. To believe this requires a wholesale rejection of history and all empirical evidence. It's truly bizarre.

Not only does more money not lead to improved outcomes, but the negative results (money being taken out of productive sectors of the economy) are ignored entirely.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2012 2:34:10 PM