Bested on and off the pitch. Man U in shambles

12/29/2019 11:26:42 AM

I don't think much will change in top 3. I think Spurs may supplant Chelsea but I also think they have serious issues still as do Chelsea.

Will be interesting to see what happens in January window.

12/30/2019 9:40:33 AM

hahhaha. Miss one week on here and the liverpool fans are wanking themselves over a United loss despite their oh so glorious club world cup win. I love it.

I love the knee jerk reactions after one match when overall we have clearly improved with Ole. But hey man ole at the wheel hurr durr. Guess Klopp should have been sacked for finishing 8th. You'll never walk alone, until you're shit.

Quote :

"Bested on and off the pitch. Man U in shambles"

Yet can't even beat us, apparently the worst united team in three decades....


L

M

A

O

[Edited on December 30, 2019 at 11:01 AM. Reason : l.]

12/30/2019 11:00:33 AM

Congrats on grinding up to 5th

[Edited on December 30, 2019 at 1:02 PM. Reason : Also FF is arsenal I think and dms is sorta unaffiliated ]

12/30/2019 12:59:27 PM

That Wazza post made me lol

I’m an EPL noob and unaffiliated. But I gotta say - I’m developing a dislike for Man U

[Edited on December 30, 2019 at 1:20 PM. Reason : I didn’t wank myself when y’all lost to Watford. I did laugh at the result though. ]

12/30/2019 1:19:50 PM

Quote :

"I didn’t wank myself when y’all lost to Watford. I did laugh at the result though. "

12/30/2019 1:51:53 PM

I wanked but it was mostly coincidental timing

12/30/2019 2:29:42 PM

Quote :

"I’m an EPL noob"

Future liverpool fan in the making here. Guess he couldn't in good conscience jump on the pool bandwagon given their one good year after like 30 something years.

You should hate Man United. Your delusional hate for us for no reason is actually quiet hilarious and fits right into the Liverpool mentality.

[Edited on December 30, 2019 at 10:16 PM. Reason : a]

12/30/2019 10:13:05 PM

12/31/2019 6:20:31 AM

I am bored at work but not working today so

Quote :

"I love the knee jerk reactions after one match when overall we have clearly improved with Ole. But hey man ole at the wheel hurr durr."

Points Per Game
Mourinho got 1.89 pts per game from his 93 games in charge, OGS has 1.73 pts per game from 41 games. If you break it down further, he's no better this season than Mourinho's half season and worse than the team he inherited after a full year in charge and an entire summer to bring in some new players and bed in some talented youth.

2018 before OGS took over: 26 pts from 17 games, 1.53 pg
2019 after OGS took over: 40 pts from 21 games, 1.9 pg
2019 to-date: 31 pts from 20 games, 1.55 pg

Compared to Last Season by Game
If you compare the results this year to their corresponding game in the last season, they're -7 pts and -2 GD worse off. I set this analysis up in preseason, well stole it from somewhere else I saw it, so this is sort of arbitrary but Norwich=Cardiff, SHU=Fulham, Villa=Huddersfield. They are also still dropping a ton of points at home, especially against bad teams.

League Table after 20 games
2018: 35 points; 8 behind 4th, 19 from 1st, 20 from relegation
2019: 31 points; 4 behind 4th, 24 from 1st, 13 from relegation

I guess they're closer to 4th but you'd struggle to call this an "improvement."

Goals Scored / Goals Against / Style
If you want to ignore results (which wazza never does because that's all that matters in soccer but), they're scoring less goals which was supposed to be the big thing with OGS to bring back some exciting free flowing game back to the club. They're conceding fewer goals this season (barely) but they spent 125 million GBP on two solid defensive players so that would make sense.

MOU 2018-2019 -- 17 games, 29 GF, 29 GA; 1.71 - 1.71
OGS 2018-2019 -- 21 games, 36 GF, 25 GA; 1.71 - 1.19
OGS 2019-2020 -- 20 games, 32 GF, 23 GA; 1.60 - 1.15

There are definitely games where they look dangerous and exciting, I will admit. But those are few and far between, they have big problems breaking down teams and usually play an extremely defensive style against the good teams (I didn't watch City game, however, so maybe this one was different)

Quote :

"Guess Klopp should have been sacked for finishing 8th."

yep Ole as a manager in May 2019 definitely = Klopp in May 2016. Nothing else to consider in terms of credibility or ability as a top class manager...

I'm not even suggesting he should be sacked now but I don't see the "clear improvement" under OGS. I certainly did with Klopp's second season (improved points per game, goals scored per game, goals against per game) and got a top 4 finish. Actually, they were only 6 off the top and in 2nd place at the end of the calendar year in 2016 so it looked even better at this stage than it ended up for the season. To be fair, Klopp did bring in Mane and Wijnaldum (both of which were not exactly top name transfers at the time though) to improve the squad. But United spent almost double that 16-17 LFC total for AWB, Maguire, and James and the results have not improved at all. Compare that to when Liverpool brought in an expensive CB and it completely changed the squad.

Tell me what he has clearly improved. He deserves some credit for giving youth opportunities, yes. But so does Lampard and he's getting better results in his first season without a transfer window this summer and after losing their best player. I'd love some reasonable discussion instead of how "hilarious" it is and you're "loving it" since this place is a ghost town now that Liverpool are kings of the world

12/31/2019 6:43:37 AM

Quote :

"Mourinho got 1.89 pts per game from his 93 games in charge, OGS has 1.73 pts per game from 41 games. If you break it down further, he's no better this season than Mourinho's half season and worse than the team he inherited after a full year in charge and an entire summer to bring in some new players and bed in some talented youth."

Those new players have all categorically made an immediate impact on United's season. How is it Ole's fault that he wasn't adequately given midfield replacements? Again, your whole point and the pool fan points on here is that Ole is out of his depth so I will refute this.

The team Ole inherited has been gutted as much as possible since he came in, a much needed clear out. Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Valencia and Herrera all have left. Players like Matic, Rojo, Jones and Bailly are likely to follow soon. United has the youngest squad in the premier league this season, even more so than Chelsea and this is actually very similar to the team that Klopp took to 4th in his first full season in charge.

Ole is not Klopp, he is no where close but you don't seem to understand my point that this is a transition phase for us and a culture change. Klopp managed to do that and finish 4th in his first full season. Ole isn't far off and you can argue about the quality of the league all you want but that is also not his fault.

Quote :

"But United spent almost double that 16-17 LFC total for AWB, Maguire, and James and the results have not improved at all. Compare that to when Liverpool brought in an expensive CB and it completely changed the squad."

Again you are blaming the manager for the faults of the board. All three signings have improved an aging squad that needed to transition.

As to your stats, you are correct they don't show the drastic improvement you'd expect but those stats are scratching the surface. Look at xG. A stat that you lot love on here.

Mou - 17 Games ; GS: 29, GA: 29 ; xG: 28.22.
More importantly we were over performing our points xG by 2. We were on 26 points but our performance metric indicated we should have been on 23.9

Ole - 17 games; GS: 26, GA: 20 ; xG: 29.5.
Less goals scored but our style and xG indicate we should have had more goals. Most importantly our points xG has us under performing by a whopping 6 points. We were on 25 points but our performance and xG should have put us at 31.8.

This is a marked improvement with a younger team and two new defenders to bed in. its almost like having a young squad leads to inconsistent performances and lack of quality finishing up front has hurt us.

Maybe having our most creative midfielder in Pogba for most of these matches would have also made a difference. Maybe having a fit Martial would have also helped. Something Mou had the luxury of but then went on to alienate both of those players.

You won't see it because you are not a fan and don't follow us but our performances have been markedly better but also frustratingly inconsistent. You are right Ole does need to learn how to break teams down better just like Klopp needed to adjust his pressing style to break smaller teams down. He did so by hiring new backroom staff in Pepjin.

Ole also has nearly nowhere the management experience that Klopp does but he is building it and he is building it with the resources of Manchester United not Mainz and Dortmund. Again I don't believe Ole will ever be as good as Klopp and I am not comparing the two but it is absolutely ridiculous that the notion is that Ole is clueless. Frank is getting plaudits for his squad but Chelsea is just as inconsistent and also has trouble against the bigger teams. Ole has made Rashford look absolutely class and we are a better team overall instead of a collection of individuals. Ole is trying to repair the damage done by three previous managers and also bedding in immensely talented youth like Greenwood, McTominay and Williams.

For once we have a vision and a plan. Ole needs to improve, as do our young players and I am very happy to see him be given the time to see improvement and structure over the course of this season. If the football isn't improving, which so far it is the best football we have played since Sir Alex, and the results aren't there then Ole should actually become DoF for us and implement his vision and let someone more tactically adept handle coaching.

[Edited on January 1, 2020 at 2:15 PM. Reason : o]

1/1/2020 2:14:52 PM

Lmao NOW you like xG. Thanks Ole!

1/1/2020 2:42:03 PM

A lot of your defense of Ole is really just that he's the coach at a time when they have talented youth available to play and the board getting rid of crap players and buying good ones.

His tactics aren't exactly complicated. Defend with a flat back 4 and DM and play through fast wingers on the counter. He moved Martial to the middle which has helped both him and Rashford but other than that, he's basically playing his best players available. Magic.

Quote :

"If the football isn't improving, which so far it is the best football we have played since Sir Alex, and the results aren't there then Ole should actually become DoF for us and implement his vision and let someone more tactically adept handle coaching."

this is insane man. what is his "vision"? Buy good players?

1/2/2020 4:55:53 AM

Quote :

"By tomorrow, a year unbeaten in the league... Let that sink in..."

1/2/2020 4:29:50 PM

dominant today. Gave up a shot at 7' and a shot at 87'.... (both great chances but still!)

also, i think the guy said liverpool had over 900 passes at over 90% completion

also, folks, a new #1!!
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

1/2/2020 6:34:43 PM

As the self described noob (and as somebody that only pays attention to EPL, not other leagues) why is City rated almost equally to Liverpool after they’ve seemingly struggled (relative to their previous dominance) this season?

And before Wazza says it...no, I’m not asking because I’m suddenly a Liverpool stan and claiming them to be the best squad ever, totally unmatched by anyone. I’m just curious.

1/2/2020 7:20:58 PM

I think 538 uses xG as a major part of their rankings. You could argue that Liverpool have been super lucky this year (you kinda have to be with that record) and City have been a little lucky. By Understat, City still have the best xG differential by a wide margin.

1/2/2020 8:02:43 PM

^that makes sense. Thanks!

1/2/2020 8:07:26 PM

Liverpool also had an unusual number of 1 goal wins in the first half I think, 9. The record for a season is 16.

Good column about that and other stuff
https://www.espn.com/soccer/liverpool-engliverpool/story/4020547/liverpools-remarkable-seasonby-the-numbers-can-they-keep-up-this-pace-to-win-premier-league

[Edited on January 2, 2020 at 8:20 PM. Reason : E]

1/2/2020 8:16:15 PM

1/3/2020 8:45:00 AM

man i guess i'm too american b/c i dont care about that gap at all. Just care about the gap to the City's

1/3/2020 9:59:30 AM

It more of a slight that we have more points than both combined.

1/3/2020 10:44:46 AM

Oh lol didn't put that together

1/3/2020 12:51:21 PM

aww how cute that pool's season is finally making pool fans learn basic math skills.

1/6/2020 10:27:31 AM

look everybody, the basket of dicks made a joke

1/7/2020 11:02:44 AM

keeping it classy, typical pool fans. Obsessed.

1/7/2020 3:39:45 PM

Playing like cups dont matter today mate.

1/7/2020 4:04:29 PM

^^^did he though? Did he?

^^Hmmm you make a dig at Liverpool and it's over a day before anyone even responds and it's just to tell you to fuck off. Very obsessed.

Anyway on the obsession note, Phil Jones has been buried
https://twitter.com/MR10__x/status/1214648137383583745?s=19

1/7/2020 4:36:51 PM

Quote :

"^^Hmmm you make a dig at Liverpool"

oh yea totally I made the dig at liverpool first right? I guess the post 4 above my "dig at liverpool" is irrelevant. Always the victims still I see lmao.

1/8/2020 10:08:38 AM

Quote :

"His tactics aren't exactly complicated. Defend with a flat back 4 and DM and play through fast wingers on the counter. He moved Martial to the middle which has helped both him and Rashford but other than that, he's basically playing his best players available. Magic."

You are over simplifying it way too much. Either because you haven't watched us play or you are just not interested in an actual tactical discussion. I am not saying Ole is a tactical genius, there is much work to be done on this side of his game and I have said before that Ole needs to learn and develop as a manager alongside this young team. What you are doing is saying he is incompetent and can't improve at all, which is fundamentally just not true for any task, not just football.

Our tactics depend on the opposition. While facing teams that defend with a low block, we try to use patient build up from the back. We move the ball from side to side trying to find a gap which we can then exploit with a quick pass or a long ball. That quick pass from the defense should usually work as a ‘trigger’ as we should speed up the play from then on, but I feel like the lack of technical quality in midfield hinders us from being able to do that. We can’t find a pass in behind despite constant runs from the front 3. Our midfielders either take way too long to make a decision or just lose the ball with a bad pass. The midfield decision making is not good and this is something Ole can take part of the blame by not drilling this obsessively into the players he does have available but ultimately without Fred, McTominay and Pogba our midfield is terrible.

Our fullbacks are also too passive when it comes to offensive runs and their runs forward are too slow. I don’t know if Ole sets it up thay way but they definitely need to be much more aggressive when the ball progresses in midfield. This is kind of high risk high reward but again this is where the midfield lets us down again by not being able to cover for a full back pressing high up. I actually think Williams has helped in this regards over Shaw. AWB as good as he is defensively is not good enough in the attacking half and this is where coaching needs to come in.

On the counter we wind up in a 4-2-4, so when we want to play balls quickly into the channel the CAM and CF occupy the Centre space looking for the cross. Attacking with width and pace. The midfielders we have are, for better or for worse, ball winners. Both Mctominay and Fred seem to be much better at breaking up play, moving the ball up and trying a pass through the lines. This is where our lack of a proper number 10 and a creative mid absolutely rears its ugly head. We have no penetration between the lines of the defenders. While our mids can pick out a very good pass, they can't really do so under pressure and the fact that we're almost always going up against a 3 man midfield seems to always out number and pressure us.

The vision for how we want to play is there in my opinion. The execution leaves much to be desired and yes Ole can take part of the blame there. I am of the opinion that a better midfield will help in this regard. I am also starting to think we need to let De Gea go and get a better distributor as a goalie. We lose possession too easily and our forwards are not supported by a lack of technical quality and penetrative full backs. Talk about money all you like but that is not Ole' fault. The reason Ole is getting patience isn't because he is a club legend but because we have a good young team that can play decent when we are on song. The consistency and coaching ability has to improve over the course of the season. There is not much point in sacking someone at this point in the season.



[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 10:36 AM. Reason : l]

1/8/2020 10:32:23 AM

Liverpool have more points through 21 than any top flight European team ever.

Also I wonder is Wazza is impressed that we have now gone 38 games, a seasons worth, and over a year unbeaten in the PL

It made me think about the comparisons to arsenals invincibles vs last years Liverpool and last two City teams. A team with the Invincibles record last year would have finished in 3rd place.

1/12/2020 1:54:11 PM

something something treble winners something something dont let it slip something something hated never ignored

1/12/2020 2:51:00 PM

Lol

1/12/2020 3:20:17 PM

38 unbeaten and no title to show for it. I rest my case.



Since you are going on and on about your meaningless record take a look. Both Chelsea and Arsenal have done better. Liverpool is having a historic season but you and I won't see eye to eye on it so keep believing you have the GOAT team but simple fact is that having the greatest season ever but only having a league to show for it is just not as good a treble. You can't call yourself GOAT because you had more points in a weak league (same excuse I have heard to put down United's title wins before by pool fans) but failed to win at least 3 of the 4 trophies on offer.

So congrats on finally getting a title after 30 years. Most of your "fans" don't even deserve it. Funnily enough the fans that do deserve it were the same ones incessantly complaining about United's bandwagon.

1/12/2020 5:03:23 PM

Lol what does a fan do to "deserve" a title?

And I haven't claimed Liverpool is GOAT, I think City of the last two years was GOAT tho

1/12/2020 8:36:11 PM

Top of the league again...in goal difference

1/12/2020 11:24:35 PM

For starters don’t bandwagon a team, ala majority of American fans who are all coming out of the woodwork as pool fans for years. Sure.

So again city wasn’t the GOAT team for the same reason. You all will of course think I am being biased but again no English team has won the treble when at least two and now 3 English teams have had unbeaten records that span 38 games and teams have been inching closer and closer to 100 points. Impressive and historic, not GOAT if you don't win the teble. As I said we will always disagree but you will understand the impact of a treble much more if klopp were able to do it on top of his ready impressive season.

1/13/2020 8:44:41 AM

The bandwagon shit is silly and, as usual, has nothing to do with tww

As for your definition goat, convenient that your criteria for best just happens to put United in the top spot. Couldn't even sweep the domestic titles smh (and didn't even break 80 pts)

My criteria for goat is now unbeaten 38 in a row while winning CL and CWC. Hell ya goat.

I hate to keep pumping up City but it's comical you called the league weak, last City won while Liverpool and Spurs made the CL finals. Very weak.

1/13/2020 9:14:08 AM

Your criteria for GOAT is meaningless records and one trophy (the league) out of 4 available. You keep going on and on about this as if either of us will change our minds. Again since you don't seem to grasp simple ideas of how much more difficult it is to win multiple trophies in a season I am not going to continue on. As I said you believe what you want, I have just called it historic and impressive and that answers your original point but it isn't the most impressive thing I have seen a team in England do and won't be till another team in England wins a historic treble.

Quote :

"I hate to keep pumping up City but it's comical you called the league weak, last City won while Liverpool and Spurs made the CL finals. Very weak."

Got your jammies in a bind this one? It's the exact same shit I have heard countless amounts of time when Sir Alex won. From tww as well that united only finished 4th because of a weak league. Well the league is at its weakest I have seen since Leicester won the title. Deal with it, comes with being champions.



[Edited on January 13, 2020 at 10:09 AM. Reason : T]

1/13/2020 10:05:03 AM

I think the Goat conversation should take place at the Goat. See y'all there at 4pm.

1/13/2020 10:25:15 AM

season ain’t over yet.

also Liverpool has already won 2 trophies this year...

1/13/2020 1:03:15 PM

^ See this comment:

Quote :

"Impressive and historic, not GOAT if you don't win the teble."

Lmao club world cup and what supercup? hahahahhahahahahha. There is 4 trophies on offer each year mate. Everything else is just noise....

[Edited on January 13, 2020 at 3:24 PM. Reason : a]

1/13/2020 3:23:06 PM

So city does get credit for Treble then, guess their team last year is GOAT.

1/13/2020 3:32:10 PM

Quote :

"something something treble winners something something dont let it slip something something hated never ignored"

this shit right here is fucking hilarious

1/13/2020 4:32:08 PM

Delusional pool fans trolling despite having the best season of their lives. Gotta love it.

1/14/2020 8:11:48 AM

AFCON moved back to Jan/Feb in 2021, which I'm sure there won't be any complaints about in the next 12 months.

1/15/2020 10:56:56 AM

Wolves are frustrating as shit to play against and of course the one player on form for us gets hurt 5 min in. Enjoy the 3-0 liverpool.

1/15/2020 4:37:58 PM

Who got hurt? I don't see any first half subs

1/15/2020 4:47:26 PM

Quote :

"AFCON moved back to Jan/Feb in 2021, which I'm sure there won't be any complaints about in the next 12 months."

fuck internationalssss

1/16/2020 8:25:06 AM

Quote :

"Wolves are frustrating as shit to play against and of course the one player on form for us gets hurt 5 min in. Enjoy the 3-0 liverpool."

You really are the worst fan.

1/16/2020 8:44:03 AM