at this point if i were him i wouldn't debate either. it seems like the media, moderators, RNC, and Clinton are all ganging up on gotcha bullshit and he stands nothing to gain. The ABC debate was an obvious point to how stupid this contest has gotten and i doubt it would go back to anything substantivel

I know i'm pro obama but for fucks sake, these democrats in policy are not that difference and to have the 21st something or other debate is a little ludicrous and OLD.

Oh and new PPP poll on Apr. 19 and 20 in NC finds:
Obama 57
Clinton 32

ouch. welcome to NC biatch


[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 3:37 PM. Reason : -]

4/21/2008 3:36:26 PM

how come all the obama supporters dont want any more debates? afraid he cant hold up? cause being president is a shit load harder than answering questions at debates

seems like if obama was the great politician that you think he is, he should use those debates to go ahead and pass hillary for the nomination for good

4/21/2008 3:40:40 PM

There's no point to debate the same shit over and over, especially when all the questions are about "-gates" instead of the issues.

4/21/2008 3:41:36 PM

what debate was it gonna be

like debate #24 or 25?

4/21/2008 3:44:33 PM

theres no point in debating as long as obama is ahead in the polls, is that what you mean more specifically? i'll say again, its 7 months from november...if you're ready to be the most powerful man in the world for at least 4 years, your ass better be willing to debate anything over the next 7 months up until election time to make that happen

should all the candidates just take the next 7 months off? just let things run their course?

i dunno i just think its kind of a copout to not want to debate your candidate...his nomination isnt sewn up yet

4/21/2008 3:44:54 PM

It's sewn up. There's no point in debating.

4/21/2008 3:49:03 PM

mccain has got this election sewn up

theres no point in holding the election

right?

4/21/2008 3:49:48 PM

hillary made it abundantly clear in the last debate that's she far more interested in tarnishing obama's image than anything else. i'm sure obama will be more than happy to debate mccain.

4/21/2008 3:50:25 PM

dude where have you been, these 2 candidates have had almost two dozen debates this primary cycle?! I believe the last one in PA was #21.

i'm sorry but they've degenerated into pure bullshit at this point and it's pointless. I know you are playing the silly brush stroke of 'WHATS OBAMA AFRAID OF'. I'd say that realistically he's afraid of having to answer the same tired old gossip questions over and over and over again.

Wright-gate, bitter-gate, Farrakhan-gate, Finger-gate (NEW!) lolz, Flag pin-gate, I mean no one gives a shit anymore except for idiots, pundits fishing for ratings, throw away rags, Clinton, and the Republicans fueling and grinning on the sidelines because it's like putting lipstick on a dead horse with McCain. Come general election time he better be ready to hold up as right now he's gotten the biggest free pass on the planet.

Not to mention this shit is effectively over. hillary would have to upend each contest here on out 60/40% to catch up in delegates. Aint gonna happen.

4/21/2008 3:51:13 PM

i just hear over and over again how obama is the perfect candidate, yet he cant even find a way to turn hillary's words against her at a debate and go ahead and put her out of reach? he cant find away to turn the topics of debates to actual issues instead of just attacking her back? if he knows he will win the nomination, he shouldnt be scared to do any more debates

the real reason is the democrats dont want to divide their party any more than its already divided

4/21/2008 3:54:31 PM

honestly, i don't care who wins. i prefer obama over clinton but am not opposed to her either. i've not been able to stomach any of the past few debates because of their lack of actual content. if you can even remember far enough back, even when edwards was in the debates it was essentially clinton v obama, and even in the earlier debates it was already a given.

if they actually added to my understanding of the candidates policies then i'd be all for more, but i don't want to watch political debates for drama, just like i don't want to watch desperate houswives for political discourse.

4/21/2008 3:54:38 PM

^^^^^

If you consider being tied with someone "sewn up".

Hillary can't win the democratic nomination no matter how much she wins in the last remaining states.

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ]

^^ No, because he's not a giant cunt like Clinton. He doesn't want to go negative.

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ]

4/21/2008 3:54:42 PM

Quote :

"He doesn't want to go negative."

well then he's going to lose cause thats how politics works in case you didnt notice

and LO FUCKING L at any of the 3 candidates not wanting to go negative...thats so cute

4/21/2008 3:56:04 PM

primaries are (often) different from GE campaigns because the people are in the same party.

4/21/2008 3:56:58 PM

^^ Ever think that's why he's so popular? You can't be an agent of change if you follow the same old politics.

4/21/2008 3:58:41 PM

^^well neither of them are going to run as VP on the other's ticket, and the party is already quite divided from the last 6 months or so of debating, so why not go ahead and secure the nomination? you think hillary is just going to give up if he refuses to debate? no she's going to turn that around on him

^if he's so popular then why is he cancelling debates and depriving all his fans of being able to see him continuously pwn hillary? and fuck no I don't buy that anybody can get this far in the presidential process by refusing to be negative, whether in public or with his campaign behind the scenes...you're naive as fuck if you think you can get this far in this day and age of politics by just being the nice guy...besides he's already been negative plenty...like towards middle america, for example

4/21/2008 3:59:34 PM

he never cancelled anything. he never agreed to it. just like she didn't agree to his date (that he suggested before her)

4/21/2008 4:01:07 PM

well unlike her, he seems to be the only one who doesnt want any more debates...whats he worried about?

4/21/2008 4:03:45 PM

It's not him who is worried, it's Clinton. That is why she is trying to start all of these debates. It's the only way she has a chance of coming even remotely close.

4/21/2008 4:05:07 PM

and hillary didn't want an NC debate few days before PA.

big whoop. candidates who seem to have a state locked don't want a debate right before it to shake things up.

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2008 4:05:14 PM

according to the story, it was the NC Democratic Party who was trying to organize the debate, not one individual candidate...the party wanted a debate for all the voters, for all the Democrats...now it looks like the voters won't get the debate

^^so the only way hillary has a chance to get the nomination is to have debates...but HILLARY is the one worried about having debates?

4/21/2008 4:06:42 PM

We don't need a debate.

4/21/2008 4:07:10 PM

^^and again. why do you care? oh yeah you're just trying to stir up shit.

4/21/2008 4:08:35 PM

^^and back to square 1...obama supporters dont want a debate because they're worried about what might come out

nice 15 minutes of circling back to square 1

^why do i care? why are you trolling me you stupid fag?

4/21/2008 4:08:52 PM

you admittedly aren't a voter. and yeah i agree. i don't want a debate because it would hurt obama. it would hurt clinton as well. but she doesn't seem to care about that at this point.

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:11 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2008 4:10:47 PM

nm

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:12 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2008 4:11:35 PM

Don't think for a second Obama has not gone negative. He just mostly lets his campaign do it for him. So long as no one ever catchs him on tap doing this tactics, most voters won't pay attn.. Here's John Dickerson at Slate Magazine, a guy who normally can't suck Obama's dick enuff.

Quote :

"At the next train stop, I'm going to stand behind Sen. Obama when he speaks. When he's decrying the trivial distractions in politics, I think he may be crossing his fingers behind his back. As the senator's campaign train wound from one speech where he denounced tit-for-tat politics to the next speech where he denounced tit-for-tat politics, his campaign hosted a conference call to engage in the practice the candidate was busy denouncing. I suppose it would have been an even greater act of chutzpah for the Obama campaign to host the conference call while Sen. Obama was denouncing that kind of behavior, but not much more of one. Obama campaign aides scheduled the call to talk about Hillary Clinton's fantastical story about her breakneck race to shelter under sniper fire during a visit to Bosnia. You might think this would be the last story the Obama campaign would be pushing because in Wednesday's debate, the senator mistakenly suggested his campaign had only discussed the issue because reporters had brought it up—not because they were trying to take advantage of Clinton's extended work of fiction. To push the story again now would make Obama look even more insincere about that claim. In the same debate, Obama also suggested the story was pretty much off-limits. When asked about Clinton's Bosnia problem, he said this: "I think Sen. Clinton deserves, you know, the right to make some errors once in a while. … I think what's important is to make sure that we don't get so obsessed with gaffes that we lose sight of the fact that this is a defining moment in our history ... for us to be obsessed with this—these kinds of errors I think is a mistake. And that's not what our campaign has been about." On his train tour Saturday, Sen. Obama continued to condemn the petty distractions that keep Americans from focusing on real issues. He decried Clinton's "tactics of Washington," in which she attacks him with every possible weapon. "She's got the kitchen sink flying, the china flying. The buffet is coming at me … when we get involved in the constant distractions, the petty tit-for-tat politics … that may be good for the television ratings, but that's not good for you." While the candidate was denouncing the distractions, his aides were promoting them. Three veterans of the Bosnia conflict joined for a conference call to explain just how crucial this particular distraction was and why we should ignore Sen. Obama's guidance and get obsessed with this issue. Maj. Gen. Walter Stewart explained that because Clinton had fabricated on the issue of sniper fire, Clinton would not be able to perform the traditional ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier who, he averred, was undoubtedly killed by sniper fire. "She will lack the moral authority to lay the wreath on Memorial Day," he said. She would also be unable to honor the veterans remembered on the Vietnam memorial because many of them had also been killed by sniper fire. Capt. Aaron Clevenstine offered a variation on this theme: "As someone who trained snipers, I take offense to the notion that she was under sniper fire." Michael Kotyk, a retired veteran of the Navy, broadened the significance of Clinton's yarn: "We've had eight years of dishonor. We need honor. If you're going to tell stories, then you're not displaying honor." Shortly after the conference call ended, Sen. Obama's train pulled into Downingtown, and he worked the crowd into a frenzy by denouncing the scourge of petty, distracting attack politics."

http://www.slate.com/id/2189485/

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ``]

4/21/2008 4:22:24 PM

socks gtfo

4/21/2008 4:27:48 PM

Quote :

"I don't see what you find funny. "

And I dont see why you support Obama. To each his own my friend.



If I was advising Obama, I wouldnt let him debate clinton. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. He has this thing in the bag, no need to mess it up.

On the "He doesnt want to go negative". LOL He has gone negative. Dont believe your guy is beyond negative politics. He does like to play both sides of the fence on this one... Just like all politicians.

4/21/2008 4:33:02 PM

yeah in comes socks and the other blowhards who are trying to lambast Obama.

DUDE GET OVER YOUR PERSONAL VENDETTA. It's been painfully clear to see that the only reason he's been going 'negatively' lately is a response to HRC's Team up with Team McCain and the RNC/Hannity/Swiftboat bullshit. Dude, she's thrown the entire kitchen floorplans at the guy and eventually what do you expect him to do?

There's only so much bullshit you can be exposed to before you have to do something. I mean, people would be saying he was weak as shit on one hand if he continuously was all flowers and periwinkle, but on the other in responding to the bullshit begrudgingly the spin against him is that he's GOING NEGATIVE.

Give me a fucking break. Chatter Chatter Chatter.

4/21/2008 4:36:38 PM

i dont get how people prefer mccain over obama honestly

4/21/2008 4:36:52 PM

obama doesnt need to go negative against one bitter old woman...his pastor has already gone negative against the entire white race

4/21/2008 4:39:43 PM

^taxes, socialized medicine, expanding entitlements... just off the top of my head.

4/21/2008 4:40:40 PM

^^Yeah, and that is very important and relevant because his pastor is running for president.



[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:42 PM. Reason : ]

4/21/2008 4:41:21 PM

^^^yeah i dont think thats gonna work in november...obama will kill mccain in the debates

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2008 4:41:26 PM

^obama will kill mccain with what? talking about change? any candidate will bring change...after all, bush can't get re-elected so theres obviously going to be change

^^i guess since wright isnt running for president, its completely 100% insignificant that obama's spiritual advisor hates america and white people

4/21/2008 4:43:57 PM

Terp, just an example of his "judgement". And it will matter in a general. Just as his wive's thesis will affect some voters too.

I think the hill supporters will vote obama in the general. I dont believe they will switch over. Its just emotion talking at the time. Hell I said I wouldnt vote for mccain, but as much as I dislike him, he is clearly better than the alternatives running on the Marx ticket.

4/21/2008 4:46:43 PM

Listen, what you'll see is Obama suddenly stop running against Clinton and pivot over to McCain, the media would sit up and notice, and possibly marginalize Clinton on their own. She's done, toast.

Speaking of the bitch, Hillary can go to Republican hell with Rove for running an ad using a Bid Laden image and implying that Obama would be a wuss on terrorism and all that other usual Orwellian shit.

To Hillary I say: go to hell.

4/21/2008 4:47:49 PM

it just seems like its the republicans turn to lose or something

4/21/2008 4:48:06 PM

the closest they'd ever get to fulfilling their "marxist" ambitions would be going groucho

4/21/2008 4:48:33 PM

Kainen,

But Obama isn't saying "well they're attacking me, I better attack back". He's saying that he isn't attacking at all. As Dickerson points out, Obama incorrectly said during the debate that his campaign only responded on the Hillary-Bosnia issue when asked by reporters. In fact, they don't want to let it go.

And God apparently had no idea this was going on. I just thought I would enlighten him a little.

Obama is, and always has been, just a regular dirty fucking politican that has hoodwinked the entire Democratic party.

4/21/2008 4:49:41 PM

i guess calling a large chunk of the country gun-toting racist xenophobes isnt going negative

4/21/2008 4:54:29 PM

Socks, no offense but you're hate of the guy drives you to hyperbole on a constant basis so I can't take your criticism with any grain of critical thinking. Sorry.

If you can't see that he is trying something new, more grass roots, dynamic, and refereshing in politics than you're crazy. Even my republican friends who are voting McCain admits this despite the fact that they think he's a leftist idiot. They can reach past that argumentative 'pride muck' to actually concede that he has run a brilliant campaign, sans the little peripheral gossip/overstetched issues that have been raked over and over and over again.

The problem was not that they were there, but that there is a gigantic microscope on them and that scope isn't sharing the time with any other candidate at all. I'd say it is akin to rookie hazing....but your idea that he's just another dirty politician is unfounded at this point. That's not to say that he doesn't now how to play dirty, the essence of politics puts you there (more manipulative than dirty)...but I honestly see character and integrity and a desire not to employ said tactics.

And yes, it's a nice marketing move to run your campaign selling that. Why not?

4/21/2008 4:55:11 PM

Quote :

"gun-toting racist xenophobes"

see this is where the disconnect exists

4/21/2008 4:57:41 PM

Quote :

"Terp, just an example of his "judgement". "

But you're voting for McCain right? What about his judgement? I mean, the whole war thing is only a minor issue apparently.

It doesn't surprise me that you would think an old black man (wright), still bitter from a lifetime of discrimination, especially in the old jim crow era, who spoke out of term a couple times about how whites control America (which they do) would be worse than John McCain's spiritual advisor, Rod Parsley, who is calling on a holy war to whipe out all muslims.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

4/21/2008 4:58:00 PM

Quote :

"who spoke out of term a couple times about how whites control America"

terp your problem is you think the entire country view's wrights remarks as "speaking out a couple of times"...i dont get how you can be so adamant that anyone who compliments obama's speaking ability, for example (which is much better than both mccain and hillary), is a racist, yet you can just dismiss genuinely racist hatred from wright as something trivial

obama is the most eloquent speaker between obama, hillary and mccain...but give him that compliment and you're a racist...how does that work?

4/21/2008 5:06:47 PM

Kainen,

So we you moved from talking about negative campaigning to grass roots organizing? Nice slight of hand.

If the question is "has Obama ran a good campaign and raised a lot of money" the answer is yes.

If the question is "has Obama led by example to steer the process away from 'tit-for-tat politics'" then the answer is No.

The most you can say is that he has run a less negative campaign than Hillary, but that isn't saying much. I'd say John McCain has run the "nicest" campaign so far.

4/21/2008 5:09:42 PM

^^maybe you should open your mind and look at what he said in a historical context. I don't think wright is racist - I think he's just like every other old black man than had to deal with the types of descrimination the jim crow era was so famous for.

[Edited on April 21, 2008 at 5:11 PM. Reason : ]

4/21/2008 5:10:08 PM

what you see as genuine racist hatred others see as the truth

4/21/2008 5:10:16 PM

dnl click edit post on my post that mentions gun toting xenophobes

ok terp, if wright isnt racist, but simply feels inequality, injustice, etc from growing up in more racist times than nowadays, why is a white person a racist if they compliment obama's excellent speaking ability?

also any response to bob johnson's comments:

Quote :

"In an interview with the Charlotte Observer, Johnson says that former vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro was right. If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," she said, just before the resulting firestorm forced her to step down as an adviser to Obama rival Hillary Clinton. "What I believe Geraldine Ferraro meant (is) if you take a freshman senator from Illinois called 'Jerry Smith' and he says I'm going to run for president, would he start off with 90 percent of the black vote? And the answer is, probably not. Would he also start out with the excitement of starting out as something completely different? Probably not. He would just be a freshmen senator ... "Geraldine Ferraro said it right. The problem is Geraldine Ferraro is white. This campaign has such a hair trigger on anything racial. It is almost impossible for anybody to say anything.""

i think he's 100% right with the last line

4/21/2008 5:13:23 PM