^lol as far as BC, if the defense gives up two bootlegs in the fashion they did, they deserve to be scored on. It was an incredible job by Russell Wilson of capitilizing on penalties, but until we can start getting more pressure on the quarterback, our zone defense is going to get exposed. I attribute alot of it to BC's offensive line, but either way, it doesn't look good for us. Maybe after the bye week we can plug up all the holes on the sinking ship and make a game of FSU. After that who knows, i'm just kind of glad I don't have to watch us play them next week.

But yeah I agree as far as the VT game went. TJ Yates going out sucked, but when you have two receivers as talented as Tate and Nicks, any QB should be able to throw to them. It also wasen't Paulus's fault that the defense for UNC went into complete meltdown mode in the second half of that game.

How do most Tar Heel fans feel about the raise last year though. My girlfriends dad played football for UNC in the 80's and he seems pretty pissed about it whenever I bring it up. Do you think it's because he was getting lured away by Arkansas or just because Baddour saw potential?

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 4:59:44 PM

Quote :

"Maybe after the bye week we can plug up all the holes on the sinking ship and make a game of FSU."

That was probably UNC's saving grace after their first game.

Quote :

"How do most Tar Heel fans feel about the raise last year though. My girlfriends dad played football for UNC in the 80's and he seems pretty pissed about it whenever I bring it up. Do you think it's because he was getting lured away by Arkansas or just because Baddour saw potential?"

It has been reported that Davis simply loves the area. He wants his kids to be in a great school system and doesnt want to keep moving them around since they are older now. He has a University with academic prestige, constantly rated at one of the best Universities to attend for athletes, a University easy to recruit for based on its name alone, and a University with deep pockets he can raid provided he gives them what they want to see (wins). UNC hasnt had a coach of Davis' caliber since Brown got them ranked in the top 10 in the 90's.

10/5/2008 5:08:39 PM

Quote :

"UNC lost Yates and brought in the previous 3rd string QB, backup to the king of interceptions and couldnt hack it at Nebraska Joe Daily, and pretty much hasnt skipped a beat yet. Hell, if Paulus wouldnt have been put in against VT then UNC just might be undefeated this year, oh and can I mention they are doing so with nearly 40 SOPHOMORES"

Quote :

"At this point UNC is miles beyond NCSU. UNC isnt making excuses for their record"

you just fucking made multiple excuses in the same post you bitch about State fans making up excuses, get the fuck out you retarded hypocrite

Quote :

"Check your record this season, wait 1 hour... just to let that sink in"

Check the score of our game last year and let that sink in for an hour, keep in mind this was with Daniel Evans (mr. pick 6 himself) at QB

Quote :

" Then I suppose by your own reasoning you would be mentally challenged because Davis would be the perfect coach for Arkansas. He has a history of rebuilding programs, thats what his reputation is built off of. Maybe next time you can come play with the big boys, right now I dont feel like slapping a child around."

They fired Houston Nutt after an 8-4 season in the toughest conference in the country which is why he didn't leave...he realized that there was a good chance he would get fired no matter how good of a job rebuilding he did, they obviously don't teach reading comprehension at whatever community college you attended while dreaming of attending UNC

Quote :

"Williams' package is worth an average of $2.6 million each year plus incentives based on the Tar Heels' performance on the court and in the classroom. Davis' annual salary is about $2.1 million. Please shut up you fucking moron. The salaries are pretty damn close as it is. "

read my fucking post dumbass, did I say they wouldn't pay Davis alot of money? no, I said they can't pay him more than Roy Williams and they don't, so shut the fuck up

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 5:14 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 5:12:40 PM

^^ I mean how do most fans that are higher up feel about it. Are 4 wins worth the raise? Most people would say no, that's why people are under the impression that he used Arkansas as leverage. Does he receive another raise if somehow the season takes a turn and they go 5-7? or 6-6?

10/5/2008 5:20:04 PM

Quote :

"you just fucking made multiple excuses in the same post"

No, I explained a situation could have been different if... Thats not an excuse. A loss is a loss, period.

Quote :

"Check the score of our game last year and let that sink in for an hour"

Should I compare that score to the other 3 games you have lost so far?

Quote :

"They fired Houston Nutt after an 8-4 season in the toughest conference in the country which is why he didn't leave...he realized that there was a good chance he would get fired no matter how good of a job rebuilding he did, they obviously don't teach reading comprehension at whatever community college you attended while dreaming of attending UNC"

LOL Davis has been a long time friend of the largest financial backers of Arkansas athletics. Davis wouldnt have been outed nearly as easy as you think.

My credentials would make you look like a porno fluffer with a GED.

Quote :

"read my fucking post dumbass, did I say they wouldn't pay Davis alot of money? no, I said they can't pay him more than Roy Williams and they don't, so shut the fuck up"

As I research deeper what exactly the two coaches salaries are, there are a lot of different figures being reported.

At the time Davis was hired at 1.86M, Williams was only making 1.15. Both coaches got updated contracts in 2007 putting Williams at 1.8M a year and Davis to 2.1 Million. Both coaches have performance based bonuses but Williams also has a sponsorship with Nike which is reported to give him an extra 500k. Davis has no such sponsorship. So it seems Davis already does make more than Williams, however football is a bit easier to milk money from than Basketball. Dean Smith center seats something like 20k people, Kenan Stadium seats something like 80K. Your position about paying Davis more than a NC BBall coach is one based on principle, not finances.

The issue, "dumbass", is not if they can or cant, but if they will. They certainly CAN do it, just as they are doing it now.

Here are some links to help make your foot taste a little better:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-11-21-16718457_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/acc/2007-05-17-unc-williams-extension_N.htm



[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 6:02 PM. Reason : typical NCSU homer.]

10/5/2008 5:42:54 PM

^Where are you gettin 80,000 capacity for Kenan? Everything I've read says 60, or are you saying after the future additions?

10/5/2008 5:46:59 PM

I just looked it up - kenan has 60k, smith center has just under 22k.

After the addition kenan will have a little over 70k seats.

Quote :

"^^ I mean how do most fans that are higher up feel about it. Are 4 wins worth the raise? Most people would say no, that's why people are under the impression that he used Arkansas as leverage. Does he receive another raise if somehow the season takes a turn and they go 5-7? or 6-6?"

Its the potential and competitiveness he showed with over 40 freshmen and 50 or so on the field who had never taken a college snap before. They lost 6 of 8 by a touchdown or less, and even in a losing season managed to reenergize the football program. Even in a losing season a freshman QB set a single season passing record. Most people feel it is well worth the investment.

Although UNC wasnt stupid. Davis will have to pay back a shit ton of money if he leaves before he finishes x year.

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 6:09 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 5:54:43 PM

Quote :

"NC lost Yates and brought in the previous 3rd string QB, backup to the king of interceptions and couldnt hack it at Nebraska Joe Daily, and pretty much hasnt skipped a beat yet. Hell, if Paulus wouldnt have been put in against VT then UNC just might be undefeated this year, oh and can I mention they are doing so with nearly 40 SOPHOMORES"

this is how Merriam-Webster defines excuse:
1 a: to make apology for b: to try to remove blame from
how does your post not fit those criteria? Backpedal all you want but you are obviously a hypocrite, that's multiple excuses right there

Quote :

"Should I compare that score to the other 3 games you have lost so far?"

because that's totally relevant to us beating your ass last year

Quote :

" LOL Davis has been a long time friend of the largest financial backers of Arkansas athletics. Davis wouldnt have been outed nearly as easy as you think."

If they are so good of friends then why is Davis still at UNC?

Quote :

"My credentials would make you look like a porno fluffer with a GED."

lol, I can say I'm the president of the world on the internet but that doesn't make it true, make statements you can't back up and hide behind the veil of anonymity the internet provides you

Quote :

"At the time Davis was hired at 1.86M, Williams was only making 1.15. Both coaches got updated contracts in 2007 putting Williams at 1.8M a year and Davis to 2.1 Million. Both coaches have performance based bonuses but Williams also has a sponsorship with Nike which is reported to give him an extra 500k. Davis has no such sponsorship. So it seems Davis already does make more than Williams"

The N&O reports Roy as making an average of $2.6 million and Butch as making $2.1 million...you can quibble all you want about the semantics of where the money comes from or who has a higher base salary, I don't give a shit...Roy makes more than Butch and will for the remainder of his stay at UNC

It's also funny that you didn't even know how many people your stadium seats, faggot

10/5/2008 6:12:54 PM

Quote :

"because that's totally relevant to us beating your ass last year"

This really has no relevance to where each respective program is headed at this point. UNC is 4-1 and has cracked the Top 25 in only their second season under Davis. I do think TOB will have State on the rise but it's just not happening yet. The biggest problem is quarterback play and I don't think that will improve drastically until Glennon is ready to take the reigns.

10/5/2008 6:19:34 PM

^ I agree with everything except Qb play. RW is playing lights out this year and has really made us more competitive than we should be. It's our lines that are really hurting us right now. Against shotty offensive lines, our defense has played well (clemson, SC -4th quarter). But when we've faced decent offensive lines that protect the QB (USF, BC), our zone defense has been lit up. Our O-line is mediocre at best and is only blocking long enough to let RW find somewhere to scramble.

also

Quote :

"My credentials would make you look like a porno fluffer with a GED."

despite the likelihood, that's pretty funny.

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 6:29 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 6:27:23 PM

^^you seem much more level-headed than your compatriot, but if you think QB play is what is hurting us right now then you haven't watched us play very much (unless you're talking about when Wilson has been injured). Wilson has been very effective for us when he has played, he's only thrown 1 INT so far and ran for/thrown a number of TDs. Our defense is what's letting us down at this point, they gave up 428 yards passing to BC's QB

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 6:30:52 PM

I agree Wilson is better than Beck and Evans but he's hurt a lot and is still completing less than 60% of his passes. He doesn't make some of the huge mistakes the other QBs do though and his scrambling ability is a huge asset with a poor O-line. I still think Glennon will ultimately pass Wilson on the depth chart in the future.

10/5/2008 6:36:43 PM

^no doubt glennon will see plenty of starts. as you said, wilson can't go 2 games in a row w/o an injury

10/5/2008 6:41:52 PM

^^ granted, but the poor qb play can't really be attributed to the qb in this situation. The whole reason we redshirted glennon imo was because our Oline couldn't block for him.

10/5/2008 6:43:50 PM

leave it to UNC fans to fag up a thread

10/5/2008 8:31:16 PM

Quote :

"this is how Merriam-Webster defines excuse: 1 a: to make apology for b: to try to remove blame from how does your post not fit those criteria? "

Because Im not removing blame nor am I apologizing for anything. I stated the situation as it was. Did you learn how to read or did you just send in the 2 proofs of purchase from the bag of cattle feed?

Quote :

"If they are so good of friends then why is Davis still at UNC?"

If you remember how to read this answer was already covered in previous posts.

You can at least pretend to have paid attention if you insist on conversing with the rest of us adults.

Quote :

"lol, I can say I'm the president of the world on the internet but that doesn't make it true, make statements you can't back up and hide behind the veil of anonymity the internet provides you"

Yet under said anonymity you still make yourself look like a downsyndromed adolescent rollerblading on a hockey rink.

Quote :

"The N&O reports Roy as making an average of $2.6 million and Butch as making $2.1 million...you can quibble all you want about the semantics of where the money comes from or who has a higher base salary, I don't give a shit...Roy makes more than Butch and will for the remainder of his stay at UNC"

According to the AP Roy doesnt, but you can ignore the AP all you want. It is of course your own ignorance. If you actually read the article you would see the retention bonus Davis gets if he stays x years. Roy doesnt have a clause like that.

No, youre point was that they CANT pay him more than Williams, which they clearly did for quite a while. You were wrong, and should compete in the backstroke in the next Olympics.

It is easily arguable that both coaches are paid the same figures for their duties. Either way you are still in fact, wrong. If you go to bed tonight still angry at this Im sure theres a sheep somewhere on campus you can go rape.

In regard to Kenan seating, the PROPOSED is increasing 10k seats, but that hasnt been approved. Previous proposals have been to expand to 80K seats, others have exceeded that, but 80K was the more popular. If they remove the luxury seating they could easily seat more, pushing toward the 80k limit. It depends on how the financials balance out, and who wants to emphasize what.

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 8:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 8:31:17 PM

^ as much as you insult Wolfpack fans, it may have done you some good if UNC hired an NC State engineer to actually keep your facilities working lol (loudspeaker acoustics, lights randomly cutting off, etc.)

10/5/2008 8:45:29 PM

Quote :

" ^ as much as you insult Wolfpack fans, it may have done you some good if UNC hired an NC State engineer to actually keep your facilities working lol (loudspeaker acoustics, lights randomly cutting off, etc.) "

I dont insult Wolfpack fans, I insult idiots. If a Wolfpack fan happens to be an idiot, well then... so be it.

I grew up knowing Jim Valvano and being a die hard State Fan. I used to cut my teeth on Chris Corchiani and Rodney Monroe, I just simply dont pay attention to NCSU as much as I used to.


Also, didnt NC State have one of their own engineering buildings that was sinking in the ground? I think I'd rather have the lights go out...

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 8:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 8:57:55 PM

Quote :

"Also, didnt NC State have one of their own engineering buildings that was sinking in the ground? I think I'd rather have the lights go out..."

touche... it's the math building, but i've heard several rumors about Harrelson, I need to ask one of my co-workers because I'd bet they know (I work for facilities at NCSU). I've heard it was a Senior design project that failed but they built it anyway, i've also heard that we had a some deal worked out with Clemson that we would design a building for each other. Who knows lol. But it is definitely sinking and it is scheduled for demolition since we built a new math building this year.

10/5/2008 9:03:42 PM

Its all good. The UNC Law School is sinking

10/5/2008 9:05:37 PM

Quote :

"Because Im not removing blame nor am I apologizing for anything. I stated the situation as it was. "

you can backpedal all you want, but you made a bunch of excuses for why they lost to VT and now you're trying to call them something other than what they are, again you're a hypocrite

Quote :

"Yet under said anonymity you still make yourself look like a downsyndromed adolescent rollerblading on a hockey rink."

good one, coming from the guy who asked for help finding a median and quartiles on here, you must think working at wal-mart makes your resume impressive, why don't you go suck off your boyfriends on Inside Carolina you retarded cum dumpster

Quote :

"According to the AP Roy doesnt, but you can ignore the AP all you want"

the AP article you're referring to says Roy Williams makes "will make up to $1.8 million each year plus incentives based on the Tar Heels' performance on the court and in the classroom" I put the important part in bold in case you're too dense to understand. Here is a link to a N&O article where they say that Roy will make an average of $2.6 million a year http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/575391.html Roy obviously makes more than Butch, so give it up.

You should probably just shut the fuck up and go away, no one wants to read your bullshit Carolina faggotry...this is an NC STATE message board

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 9:18 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2008 9:11:28 PM

Quote :

"the AP article you're referring to says Roy Williams makes "will make up to $1.8 million each year plus incentives based on the Tar Heels' performance on the court and in the classroom" I put the important part in bold in case you're too dense to understand. Here is a link to a N&O article where they say that Roy will make an average of $2.6 million a year http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/575391.html Roy obviously makes more than Butch, so give it up. "

Yea, incentives... Davis gets them too. The thing is you have to perform to earn the incentives. Davis gets 2.1M regardless, Williams gets 1.86. Good reach though. At best they still make approx the same amount of money. You said directly that there was no way they can pay Davis more than Williams. The problem was they did, and they still do. What you arent considering is that the two contracts are tailored much differently. Davis' is tailored for long term commitment and retention which is he financially rewarded. Williams' is tailored for success which he has a strong history of providing. Each gets their money based on what the University expects out of them, not much different than any other coach anywhere else, except the dollar figure.

In case you missed them the first time.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-11-21-16718457_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/acc/2007-05-17-unc-williams-extension_N.htm



Oh and I was following NC State while your potential brothers and pillow biters were swimming in your moms tummy. I am partial to NC State, but its people like you who give the whole fan base of ANY team a bad rep.

Quote :

"but you made a bunch of excuses for why they lost to VT"

No, I sure didnt. But feel free to find where I said that and stretch it as far as you can, similar to you are doing with your e-penis.

10/5/2008 11:23:56 PM

Quote :

""Also, didnt NC State have one of their own engineering buildings that was sinking in the ground? I think I'd rather have the lights go out...""

clemson grads designed/oversaw production of harrelson, talk to them

10/5/2008 11:47:00 PM

Quote :

"Yea, incentives... Davis gets them too."

Quote :

"Davis gets 2.1M regardless"

show me where, nothing in any of the articles I could find says anything about incentives for Butch Davis, how can he make $2.1 million regardless AND get incentives?? That makes no sense, you contradicted yourself AGAIN in the same post. Also you're arguing semantics and I'm talking about what they are actually making. If you want to ignore incentives for Roy, then why should we include retention bonuses or any of the other supplemental shit that bolsters Butch Davis' compensation, the only reasonable way to compare the two is to include everything they get and in that case Roy is making significantly more than Butch (i.e. 500k)

Quote :

"At best they still make approx the same amount of money"

WRONG, did you even read the article i posted a link to

Quote :

"Davis' is tailored for long term commitment and retention which is he financially rewarded. Williams' is tailored for success which he has a strong history of providing"

who is arguing this? All I said was that Roy makes more than Butch and the article i linked directly confirms this

Quote :

"but its people like you who give the whole fan base of ANY team a bad rep."

right, me calling you out on your bullshit gives State fans a bad rep, that makes a lot of sense

Quote :

"No, I sure didnt. But feel free to find where I said that and stretch it as far as you can"

Quote :

"UNC lost Yates and brought in the previous 3rd string QB, backup to the king of interceptions and couldnt hack it at Nebraska Joe Daily, and pretty much hasnt skipped a beat yet. Hell, if Paulus wouldnt have been put in against VT then UNC just might be undefeated this year, oh and can I mention they are doing so with nearly 40 SOPHOMORES"

that's two excuses right there

[Edited on October 6, 2008 at 12:13 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 6, 2008 at 12:14 AM. Reason : ..]

[Edited on October 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason : spelling]

10/6/2008 12:09:58 AM

national exposure is important. Ask somebody in nebraska, vermont or regon what they think about each program.

10/6/2008 12:22:19 AM

I think most of college football has been clusterfucked the last few weeks this season.

On a side note, I like Oregons uniforms.

10/6/2008 12:34:35 AM

the only thing i read during this thread was the fact that UNC will have 70,000 seats after expansion. Damn......thats gonna be alot of aluminum

10/6/2008 12:39:21 AM

^ LOL thats awesome!

They are supposed to have luxury box seats etc but who knows what will be approved and finalized.

I really cant imagine some of the stadiums the power house teams have. 100 - 120k people?

DAMN!

10/6/2008 12:50:18 AM

Quote :

"show me where, nothing in any of the articles I could find says anything about incentives for Butch Davis, how can he make $2.1 million regardless AND get incentives?? That makes no sense, you contradicted yourself AGAIN in the same post."

From the N&O which you linked to yourself:
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/football/story/876204.html

Quote :

" The only other change to his deal: If the Tar Heels are invited to participate in an ACC first- or second-choice non-BCS bowl game, Davis will receive a bonus of two-months base pay instead of one. That matches what the university basketball coaches are getting. "

This is on top of his 2.1M (2.2 in the article) per year. The 1.8 and 2.2 are without the incentives. Roy has more opportunity to make more, but he has to win tournaments, get to the NCAA FF, etc.

Quote :

"who is arguing this? All I said was that Roy makes more than Butch and the article i linked directly confirms this"

No one. Im pointing out that you lack the scope of vision for an intelligent conversation to occur.

Quote :

"if Paulus wouldnt have been put in against VT then UNC just might be undefeated this year, oh and can I mention they are doing so with nearly 40 SOPHOMORES""

This is not an excuse you fucking moron. Its stating that UNC had the possibility of being undefeated this year. If UNC wouldnt have put in a red shirt freshman things could have been different for them, but there is no guarantee Sexton would have done any better. It's then stating their newfound success (of being a 1 loss team) is exceeding the expectations because they have over 40 sophomores on the team. That's not apologizing or removing blame for anything which is your definition of an excuse, it is simply stating the situation at hand.

[Edited on October 6, 2008 at 12:51 AM. Reason : .]

10/6/2008 12:50:57 AM

^^ lol did you miss what he meant?

or am I missing sarcasm?

10/6/2008 12:59:08 AM

Yea I got the joke and it was enough for a chuckle.

They will fill the seats without a problem.

10/6/2008 1:26:05 AM

Quote :

"This is on top of his 2.1M (2.2 in the article) per year"

Granted I missed that part of the article, but it still means he doesn't make 2.1 million REGARDLESS of how the team does, he has the potential to make more and even if he did get the incentive it would still be less than the average amount that Roy Williams makes so you're still ignoring that fact

Quote :

"This is not an excuse you fucking moron. Its stating that UNC had the possibility of being undefeated this year. If UNC wouldnt have put in a red shirt freshman things could have been different for them"

It's the very definition of an excuse, if you think something isn't an excuse just because it isn't phrased exactly like how the definition explains it then you are the real moron. You're trying to remove blame for the loss because of x and y while criticizing state fans for blaming a loss on x and y.

Quote :

" Also check previous comments on the reason NCSU is doing so bad is because the loss of 1 or 2 key players"

10/6/2008 1:38:59 AM

ANYONE KNOW THE SCORE OF THE BOSTON COLLEGE GAME?

10/6/2008 2:19:08 AM

wut?

10/6/2008 2:39:23 AM

nevermind I found it

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=542703&page=1

10/6/2008 11:01:49 AM

Quote :

"ANYONE KNOW THE SCORE OF THE BOSTON COLLEGE GAME?"

Good God you are a fucking troll. If UNC played State's schedule, they would likely be 3-3. Give me a fucking break if you honestly think UNC is that much better than State. You have one great player in Tate and a very good WR in Nicks. If it weren't for Tate, UNC would have and should have lost to McNeese State. Stop talking shit. You beat a not very good Miami team at the last second, beat a horrible Rutgers team, and crushed an obviously overrated UConn team. Being ranked does not mean shit. Ball State is ranked and they have played nobody. Just wait until Notre Dame stomps that ass this weekend.

10/6/2008 11:25:03 AM

Excuses excuses....

10/6/2008 12:49:40 PM

OH MAN, YOU SURE CALLED US OUT!!!!

10/6/2008 1:05:08 PM

Quote :

"Just wait until Notre Dame stomps that ass this weekend."

whoa whoa

I hate UNC as much as the next guy, and think they're overrated as hell... but I highly doubt ND "stomps that ass"

10/6/2008 1:09:34 PM

^^ Parrody

^ it should be a competitive game. I would be cautious to expect a blowout one way or the other. ND is ND ya know.

10/6/2008 1:21:53 PM

10/6/2008 4:40:58 PM

who has unc played?
mcneese st, vt, miami, rutgers, and uconn- I mean, their schedule has not been that hard

weve played
South Carolina, w&m (yea i know, just listing them), #15 ecu, clemson, BC, and #14 USF

Our schedule has been much harder than unc's, of course they are going to have a better record. I dont see how wut really has much to troll on.

10/7/2008 12:27:05 AM

^exactly. UNC hasn't played anyone.

10/7/2008 12:33:26 AM

The fact that UNC is in the clearly weaker division should also be brought up.....

If you want to argue that look at NCSU last year.

We went 3-5 in the ACC. 0-5 against the Atlantic Division....3-0 against the Coastal Division.

10/7/2008 12:34:46 AM

sagarin has unc's SOS as 23rd and yalls as 29th

just sayin....

10/7/2008 12:35:52 AM

^ beat me to it

10/7/2008 12:45:29 AM

^^that doesn't mean they have played tougher teams so far, just means they have a slightly tougher schedule overall, according to Sagarin of course

10/7/2008 12:47:01 AM

Quote :

"that doesn't mean they have played tougher teams so far"

Actually it does. SOS is based only on games that have been played.

10/7/2008 12:51:42 AM

ah ok, i was thinking this was like the preseason SOS type thing, do you have a link to the sagarin SOS I can't seem to find it?

10/7/2008 12:54:37 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

10/7/2008 12:56:36 AM