what kind of people? the people who correctly anticipate an economic collapse and get trolled constantly about it?

Although i do apologize, i forget its not this thread where the trollers typically are.

Great day though, gold is starting to go up. This is going to be a fun ride.

8/18/2011 6:24:07 PM

Quote :

"what kind of people?"

The people who act like a fucking cunt.

8/18/2011 9:44:37 PM

I envy those of you who made money today in the market

I'm a simpleton who only knows how to buy and sell stocks

I hear all this stuff about puts and buying shares of stocks/companies that give you money when the overall indices drop and I feel like a dummy for not understanding

8/18/2011 10:01:44 PM

All you need is buy and sell. Just had to listen to rallydurham: sell stocks and buy precious metals. I did that a few weeks back and am weathering this double dip nicely. Sell AAPL at an all time high, buy metals before they go up. Sell high, buy low. It's fundamental.

I give credit where credit is due.


There seems to be little reason why the market shouldn't be where it was in 2008.

We're not any better at producing goods are services. Firms are making nominal profits by cutting costs and cooking the books. People are sinking money into financial markets rather than investing in technology research and upgrades. The government is keeping highly-leveraged financial institutions afloat. People still believe that consumption rather than production and real income growth is the way out of this. Prices are inflating left and right.

The fundamentals aren't there. The relationship between finance and the real economy is still dysfunctional. As long as productivity per capita per hour stagnates, the economy lacks the fundamentals that fuel real growth.

I'll admit, though, inflation can keep asset markets up because inflated dollars just go straight into those asset markets. But that's a total crap shoot.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 10:39 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2011 10:26:06 PM

I get the sell high, buy low angle. Thats analogous in any market.

What I don't get is the people making money when all the markets lose.

I was always told "buy what people are buying" but that seems to mostly encompass regular buy/sell stocks, which seems to be shit advice, at least this week

8/19/2011 12:58:58 AM

Do you understand the concept of short selling? The most basic way...well, before inverse ETFs...to make money from a falling market?

8/19/2011 1:23:01 AM

i definitely don't understand inverse ETFs, though i've seen them discussed ITT

i THINK i get the CONCEPT of short selling but not practically

you have to understand, I made decent money in high school in some buy/sell markets, but thats very, very simple econ

I'm still trying to catch on to the other various nuances to the stock market

I guess I'm a simpleton, cause I completely understand the buy low, sell high aspect, which has worked alright for the last however many years until this shit market we currently have, but I'm a complete n00b to puts, shorts, and people making money of terrible Dow days

then when i tell people "i bought in gold at 400/oz" they are confused when i tell them that the gold i bought was 10-18k jewelry

8/19/2011 1:43:19 AM

I just set up hedges with options.

8/19/2011 10:24:57 AM

still got that FAS, not sure what i'm going to do -- probably hold.

8/19/2011 11:51:28 AM

just thinking, if i was rich, i would buy a shit ton of Vladimir Kush paintings

8/19/2011 11:59:06 AM

covered calls. open and close as the market fluctuates. fuck bitches. get money.

8/19/2011 11:59:51 AM

8/19/2011 1:56:52 PM

Made the call last Monday that I thought we'd see a silver rally within a couple weeks, though I honestly expected to hear more from the Fed. To me, the admission that we will have 0% interest rates until Mid 2013 is the equivalent of a QE announcement. They didn't say it, but there's really no choice in the matter.

Gold is due for a correction and silver has been very stable: http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html

8/19/2011 2:06:27 PM

^ Ah, the ole 1x 43 for even money I love spread trades, or buy gold puts and silver calls for super leverage. Silver is notoriously manipulated, that kinda shit tends to shake out with volatility in the markets. I like the trade. Things are almost fucked up enough to advocate maxing out credit cards to buy physical silver, almost currency collapse style.

8/19/2011 10:52:25 PM

Planning to pick up some AAPL calls this week, maybe FAS too. There has to be a bounce (dead cat?) at some point, will look to exit these calls when that happens.

8/21/2011 8:36:00 PM

Crickets on the open, nothing going on except futures are up 16 for no reason. I sold 1143.25 for something to do.

8/22/2011 9:54:37 AM

Making $1,000 a day seemingly everyday on gold now.

8/22/2011 4:16:47 PM

regaining some of my losses in GTAT. The solar industry as a whole is tanking though, hopefully GTAT can distinguish itself as something other than a strictly solar company

8/23/2011 12:23:33 PM

quake causes Capitol bldg to evacuate. markets rally.

coincidence? i think not.

8/23/2011 3:11:56 PM

8/23/2011 3:14:47 PM

Who leaked the S&P downgrade news?

http://money.msn.com/exchange-traded-fund/article.aspx?post=77dc9185-ed4f-4b98-bdba-6b818b601f86

8/23/2011 3:48:44 PM

Head of S&P to Resign

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903327904576525141971060106.html

8/23/2011 4:32:21 PM

The head of S&P being forced to resign by the board so they can put a Citi banker in is really scary and just shows how incestuous the government and banks relationship has become.

Gold got drilled I guess people are realizing that it is too early for QE3, we need more deflation and wealth destruction first.

8/23/2011 5:12:37 PM

Does anyone think there's any truth to the possibilities that JP Morgan is going to buy Bank of America and essentially let it crash? I'm glad I'm out of the market and have 2 months of living cash in hand, but man this whole banking thing is messed up.

8/23/2011 7:30:25 PM

Heard this, Bank of America needs to raise somewhere between 50 to 200 billion. They have not been able to raise a dime all the while their stock is getting hammered. JPM is the public arm of the Fed and will likely be involved. My guess is JPM will acquire B of A for nothing strip it's good assets, ML, and throw all of the shitty loans to the Fed. Sound familiar? Good news is you can bet that whomever buys B of A they will get Federal backstops on the assets acquired and that those will be placed on the back of the taxpayer. Why is this good for the American people, fuck these banks. Let B of A go and take a few of these pricks with them, throwing money at the problem has not worked. We need to take some pain. RIP Charlotte.

8/23/2011 8:06:01 PM

^ not going to happen for many reasons
1. JPM does not want or need the BofA franchise.
2. Why would the strong bank like JPM buy bofa (CountryWide) with unquantifiable mortgage losses and legal expenses
3. would require act of congress to allow jpm to hold >10% of deposits resulting from M&A.
4. Any deal would require substantial backing from the fed. This would create a super-too-big-to-fail institution which is totally counter to policy currently coming out of washington.

If anything, BofA will be split apart and divided up in to the legal entities. 5 of the 6 business units are profitable. The mortgage wing is hemorrhaging money.

One more point: BofA has raised capital by selling non-core assets. International Card, Blackrock, China Construction Bank.

This isnt a capital problem. It is a liquidity problem.

[Edited on August 23, 2011 at 11:22 PM. Reason : un]

[Edited on August 23, 2011 at 11:24 PM. Reason : jkn]

8/23/2011 11:22:24 PM

Fuck me. Had an order for GLD Sept 183p's that missed filling for 1.80 yesterday morning that are now well north of 10.

8/24/2011 10:36:54 AM

^^ I think you are right with your reasons for nobody wanting to buy B of A, I think you are flawed in assuming that this will happen in a rational business environment without Fed intervention. It is likely to be done quickly as the sky is falling. There are few firms large enough to even consider absorbing B of A, they will not risk themselves without guarantees for future losses. Enter the Fed and JPM. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but they have not sold their CCB holdings and the credit card bus + black rock could only be 3 to 5 billion best. I don't know if it's JPM, but the fed will backstop losses for the buyers, or they risk all of the money they have thrown at the system to this point. With reguard to government limits on who could aquire parts or the whole, you are assuming the rules matter. Washingtons appetite for bailouts may have publicly changed, but the Feds commitment to the status quo trumps all.

8/24/2011 11:49:17 AM

The gold bubble finally burst, guys. Gold hasn't been this low since August 16th, 2011...shit.

8/24/2011 12:09:47 PM

I know hilarious how they consider this bursting. Thank god I didn't buy gold its wiped out a whole weeks worth of gains in the past two days!!

I can't tell if this is a good entry point or if fed will allow more wealth destruction before QE3

8/24/2011 3:20:07 PM

there will be no QE3

...furthermore, recession is definitively off the table now:

http://tinyurl.com/3hc9ldo

8/24/2011 4:44:16 PM

A single oil source will revive the entire crumbling infrastructure of the United States...

8/24/2011 5:10:10 PM

Well, it'll be interesting to see how this newest development plays out for AAPL...

8/24/2011 7:11:08 PM

Quote :

"EXTENDED HOURS: Last: 356.25 Change: -19.93 (-5.30%)"

8/24/2011 7:29:24 PM

face knew he was going to resign. What a prophet...

8/24/2011 7:47:06 PM

Ha, on the day Goldman told its clients to sell AAPL puts. Any chance Goldman's prop desk was buying from clients. Sucks for Jobs, Good for my 1x15 spread.

8/24/2011 8:09:29 PM

Jackson Hole on friday, Any thoughts on what the Bernank is going to say?

8/24/2011 8:27:17 PM

Shit's transitory brah.

8/24/2011 8:50:23 PM

well we knew him leaving soon had a decent probability so a good portion of that was already priced in.

it'll still selloff of course but maybe not as dramatically as a lot of people think

8/24/2011 10:48:34 PM

Actually, he was already gone on the leave of absence, and he had pancreatic cancer and a liver transplant. By themselves, those things have low life expectancy. Together, it was a no brainer that he would be gone sooner or later. I got completely out a few weeks back.

I'm also one of those people who think they will never be good without Jobs. The difference between Apple and any other tech company is the CEO. Otherwise, all the silicon valley companies are drawing from the same talent pool. No other company could match Apple at the CEO position in terms of experience. You don't even have to fall back on intelligence or instincts or je ne sais quoi. Based on experience alone, Apple had a huge advantage at the CEO position.

Microsoft has been sucking, but coasting since Gates left. Apple will coast through the 70 billion they have in the bank and become just as directionless and complacent as Microsoft.

[Edited on August 25, 2011 at 12:27 AM. Reason : .]

8/25/2011 12:25:09 AM

This doesnt help them at all but I still think it was already mostly priced in and any sell-off now is more knee jerk than fundamental.

People knew he wouldn't be there long term and the products won't be affected very much in the short term.


Now if you want to talk about fundamentals I think Apple's stock price has problems. I can't imagine them maintaining margins with the iPhone or the iPad as more and more people keep entering the space. There's just too much competition coming.

8/25/2011 12:34:39 AM

You have to figure that they have 2 iphones, 2 ipads, a few macbook air refreshes, some ipads, and maybe an Apple TV in the pipeline. That's enough product to last them 3-4 years.

But the next big mission that they have left incomplete is to steal the revenue streams from cable, satellite, and fiber content providers. Those companies are currently doing a piss poor job, they charge oligopoly prices, and they make customers jump through hoops to get what they want. That's an obvious growth area for Apple and promises a huge amount of new revenue.

No one other than Jobs has demonstrated the ability to completely conquer new markets. I'm sure Tim Cook and crew can deliver great finished products for whatever they have in the pipeline. But do they have the vision to develop new markets?
How much is the market going to reward competently executing an existing vision? A 100 points up from today's price?

8/25/2011 1:11:54 AM

How bout this is there anything other than QEinfinity for a trillion that the markets will react positively to? I think the market is disappointed unless the above is mentioned. From what I've seen over the last week that's the play. We going lower.

8/25/2011 9:03:00 AM

Quote :

"I'm also one of those people who think they will never be good without Jobs."

Fatal attribution error, bro.

8/25/2011 9:17:12 AM

Let's not act like Jobs was batting 1.000

7 products Steve Jobs got wrong
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/08/24/national/a175319D29.DTL&tsp=1


That said, he's still probably the greatest technology visionary/leader of our time.

8/25/2011 9:33:26 AM

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/25/warren-buffett-to-save-bank-of-america/?mod=yahoo_hs

Warren Buffett is going to plow $5 billion in Bank of America, the battered banking giant. Bank of America shares are going nuts in pre-market trading, up 14%.

Remember that Buffett rode to the rescue of several besieged financing giants during the financial crisis, investing in Goldman Sachs and General Electric, among others, during the heat of financing panic in 2008 and 2009.

Buffett’s seal of approval is legendary and he charges a fortune for it. He’s buying 50,000 preferred shares at a dividend of 6% a year. That’s quite a steep cost.

8/25/2011 9:52:01 AM

God buffet is such a slimeball.

Meets with Obama yesterday to get the promise that the govt wouldn't let bank of America fail.

Then invests $5 billion when no one else on the planet is willing to recapitalize them.

This is worse than a corporatocracy . This is why I never short stocks, because the govt will always screw the citizens to save the companies.

This is precisely why gold is the best investment today unless you are in obamas crew like buffet

8/25/2011 9:55:02 AM

^ Frontrunning piece of shit. His Goldman deal was just stepping in before government backstops were announced, that's super hard trade to make. Id love to know what he was told by the treasury. It's no secret he's a Obama fan, maybe his politics clouds this trade. Now we wait to see what he was front-running. So B of A gets 5 of the 50 to 200 billion they need.

8/25/2011 10:00:00 AM

Did he really need to meet with Obama to find out that the administration wouldnt let bofa fail? BofA does not need to raise 200b - the only source for that number comes from someone with a lifetime SEC ban.


Cheering for bofa to crash is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Rest of the economy will follow. If you thought Lehman was bad...BofA is 15 times the size -LaSalle, US Trust, Merrill, CountryWide, MBNA.

8/25/2011 10:10:14 AM

I am aware, I have an option position on that pays if we tank. Hence my ha8.

8/25/2011 10:17:13 AM