JCE's slipping...I didn't see the words 'echo-chamber' in that post anywhere.

[Edited on December 1, 2015 at 8:27 AM. Reason : ]

12/1/2015 8:27:17 AM

White privilege is...







[Edited on December 1, 2015 at 11:24 AM. Reason : one more]

12/1/2015 11:22:11 AM

^^ wral comments mirror those CNN ones most of the time. The reality is most of those people who do that are absolutely adamant they don't see race. It's actually somewhat stunning to see the lack of awareness.

I recognize my own biases and while I wish I didn't have them, fact is I do.

12/1/2015 11:57:45 AM

Quote :

"The concept of black lives mattering is a false narrative."

No, the concept of black lives not mattering is a false narrative.

Police brutality is a societal issue, and creating a racial aspect only causes pointless hashtag arguments and division.

"But cops kill black people more"
Actually cops kill white people more
"But if you take into account population, black people are 3.5 times more likely to get killed by a cop"
True, but if you adjust for the racial disparity in population, also adjust for racial disparity in violent crime, in which case whites are 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police.

As I have said before, liberalism doesn't consider all relevant factors, they stop as soon as they see race-based victimization, because it is all about the narrative, not reality. Police and "society" are just scapegoats for the real race-based problems that we aren't allowed to talk about in today's PC climate.

12/1/2015 12:34:44 PM

Is your position as simple as saying that you believe in our society all races/religions/ethnicities have equal access to opportunity to succeed? That there are no systemic or actual biases present that may prevent one group or many groups of people from being treated equally?

I quite simply disagree if that's the case. I don't feel bad or guilty that because of the situation I was born into I was granted a far higher degree of certainty that i would be successful but I also realize I was lucky. On the contrary, recognizing that has pushed me to be more willing to give my time and money to those less fortunate.

12/1/2015 1:19:47 PM

^^

Quote :

"Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings. The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police."

You seem to have Donald Trump syndrome, unable to use accurate information in forming your opinions. You should find some information from a neonazi group to support your viewpoints next, would really round this out.

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
http://www.propublica.org/article/answering-the-critics-of-our-deadly-force-story

Using the least generous estimate, a police encounter with a black person is 99.9999% likely to be trouble free, and with a white person is 99.999975% likely to be trouble free, this doesn't justify blacks being shot by them at the substantially higher rates that we see.

None of this justifies the over policing, over charging, and over convicting that happens either. Nor does it justify the over-punishing kids get in school.

If you still refused to accept these facts, you could throw out the police killing data, and there's still a big problem with police perceptions of blacks.

12/1/2015 1:50:54 PM

he thinks it's because they are more dangerous

12/1/2015 1:53:40 PM

Quote :

" Is your position as simple as saying that you believe in our society all races/religions/ethnicities have equal access to opportunity to succeed?"

There will always be majorities and minorities, unconscious biases, and stereotypes. Most of this transcends black vs white and is just human nature. I don’t think society is perfect but I also don’t think the color of your skin or your religion will prevent you from succeeding in present day America.

Quote :

" I don't feel bad or guilty that because of the situation I was born into I was granted a far higher degree of certainty that i would be successful"

Don’t confuse wealth with race. This is one of the main things I argue against. The lingering wealth disparity from historic racism is a problem, but many people confuse poor people problems with “It’s because I’m black”.

The other position I’ve argued ad nauseam is that high school diplomas, fathers raising children, and 15 year old girls not getting pregnant, are not a white privileges. These factors have huge correlations with success, but it isn’t PC to address these actual problems that influence some races more than others, so we just blame the scapegoat of racist police or society and tweet hashtags about how people are oppressed by their own choices.

12/1/2015 2:19:29 PM

Quote :

"but I also don’t think the color of your skin or your religion will prevent you from succeeding in present day America"

It may not "prevent you from succeeding", but it certainly can make it harder to succeed. And if you don't believe that, you're dumb (or racist, or both).

[Edited on December 1, 2015 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2015 2:23:29 PM

Moron, *Facepalm* I literally already predicted and addressed this before you even posted. This conversation has happened elsewhere countless times so I just summarized where it goes to.

Quote :

""But cops kill black people more" Actually cops kill white people more "But if you take into account population, black people are 3.5 times more likely to get killed by a cop" True, but if you adjust for the racial disparity in population, also adjust for racial disparity in violent crime, in which case whites are 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police."

You have to tie in rate of violent crime by race to these numbers. If race X commits more murder, ofcourse race X will get shot by cops more. It is really elementary stuff, but in typical liberal fashion:

Quote :

"liberalism doesn't consider all relevant factors, they stop as soon as they see race-based victimization"

You should stick to baseless accusations of racism, statistics isn't your forte.

[Edited on December 1, 2015 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2015 2:48:28 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

12/1/2015 3:19:40 PM

^^ That's spurious reasoning based on poor quality data.

12/1/2015 3:38:10 PM

LOL. The exact same FBI data your links are based on? How is including a very relevant statistic "Spurious"????

Leaving it out to perpetuate your false narrative of racist cops is the definition of Spurious.

If one race is more likely to commit violent crimes, they are logically more likely to have violent interactions with police.

12/1/2015 4:05:57 PM

All the moron's, TGL's, synapses should be forced to watch the newest South Park's.

I love how the latest one satires the notion portrayed by #BLM and advanced by the media that imply cops are looking to go and shoot minorities.

12/1/2015 5:55:31 PM

I dunno about those users, but South Park has been extra good this year. Not sure they're satirizing people like moron though.

12/1/2015 6:13:49 PM

just gonna leave this here:

http://henrycountyreport.com/blog/2015/12/01/leaked-documents-reveal-dothan-police-department-planted-drugs-on-young-black-men-for-years-district-attorney-doug-valeska-complicit/

12/1/2015 11:55:55 PM

Obviously it's cause cops hate black people. Just like in South Park duh

12/2/2015 12:42:59 AM

Whether a cop or cops hate black people is not really relevant to what BLM wants. It matters how you stop things like ^ and all the other systemic racism that you all seem to agree exists.

12/2/2015 12:45:57 AM

I'm starting to think HUR is just a bot who posts some form of OBVIOUSLY COPS HATE ALL BLACK PEOPLE over and over

12/2/2015 9:04:41 AM

^^ That's spurious reasoning

12/2/2015 1:55:11 PM

white privilege is a real thing but the problem is that calling it white privilege is a bit of a misnomer. This name makes some white people feel as though the notion of it is somehow an attempt to discredit any of their personal successes.

White privilege is really the "privilege" to live what they think is a normal life. Its not a privilege because they haven't been given anything other than rights that are allotted to everyone.

I think considering freedom a privilege is problematic in the first place. Its a cup half full half empty sort of view but the white "privilege" is basically the things are are typically taken away from non white.

"Checking your privilege" is the idea that some people have to deal with stereotype threat issues that would never have to cross your mind.

12/3/2015 4:52:33 PM

Is it White Privilege or Asian Privilege?

Asian families have the highest median income. When will racist Asians acknowledge their privilege and help us "move forward" and "progress" as a society?

Or could it be that if your fathers raise children, if your women don't get knocked up at age 15, and if you graduate highschool, you are more successful in life? *GASP* No! Individual choices are irrelevant, you're a victim! Sure Asians rate the best in the above 3 categories, but that has nothing to do with their success in life, your choices don't matter because society is racist and favors Asians. YOURE A VICTIM!

12/4/2015 12:52:14 PM

^^
We had that discussion in this thread, rjrumfel determined the politically correct term should be "majority systemic bias". This is the term that you should use as to not offend the delicate sensibilities of conservatives, but it's the same thing as white privilege.

12/4/2015 1:03:04 PM

^^ Stop with the Asian comparisons. Mountains of data shows that Asians came into this country with a far better level of education that many Americans, that Asians make more money because of this, and that Asians have more educational advantages due to the perception of their intelligence. That in no way proves that Asians somehow solved systematic racism. In fact, the whole row over college acceptances requiring higher stats for Asians versus other races is a big fight for them as well as the profiling of South Indians (who look Middle Eastern) post 9-11.

In addition, Asians vote overwhelmingly Democrat, which shows the importance they place on healthcare, education, and social safety nets.

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 1:03 PM. Reason : ^]

12/4/2015 1:03:32 PM

I prefer the term "Responsible Decision Bias".

The Asian comparison is perfect. It's amazing how 3 factors directly influence success, and how they are all individual choices, not something predetermined by race.

Why bother being a father, not getting pregnant at 15, or graduating high school, all that matters is the color of your skin! You're a victim!

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 1:07 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2015 1:04:07 PM

Hmm, I wonder why black people choose to live in bad school districts. Moving to a very successful, predominately white school district would be a much better life choice.

Quote :

"Or could it be that if your fathers raise children, if your women don't get knocked up at age 15, and if you graduate highschool, you are more successful in life? "

Perhaps if you look into the history of this country, you will figure out how all of these are impacted by systemic racism.

Thats exactly what we're talking about. Not really a privilege that whites have gained (misnomer) but the rights that they haven't lost. (good education, fair legal system, etc).

You're halfway to understanding the problem so I commend your progress.

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 2:09 PM. Reason : Why do black men choose longer sentences for the same crimes?]

12/4/2015 2:06:14 PM

Quote :

" The Asian comparison is perfect. It's amazing how 3 factors directly influence success, and how they are all individual choices, not something predetermined by race. "

Interesting. India's poverty rate is close to 50% but their mindset is Asian - get an education, work hard, and have a strong family. How come it isnt working out for them? It's almost as if outside forces are making it difficult for them. Whoa, imagine that.

12/4/2015 2:20:40 PM

Quote :

"Not really a privilege that whites have gained (misnomer) but the rights that they haven't lost. (good education, fair legal system, etc)."

I wasn't aware someone took away the right of minorities to make decisions?

Quote :

"Interesting. India's poverty rate is close to 50% but their mindset is Asian - get an education, work hard, and have a strong family. How come it isnt working out for them? It's almost as if outside forces are making it difficult for them. Whoa, imagine that."

Interesting. It's almost as if India is a DIFFERENT COUNTRY outside the context of this discussion. Whoa, imagine that.

12/4/2015 3:04:00 PM

Populated by ASIANS who you conveniently drag into this conversation to make your point. But you make no distinction between Asians recently immigrated versus those with generations in America. Asians recently immigrated are not going to dramatically have a mind and culture shift because they flew on an airplane and landed in the boundary of the US. So what they do in India/China is going to be what they do here.

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:15 PM. Reason : a]

12/4/2015 3:14:53 PM

Quote :

"ould it be that if your fathers raise children, if your women don't get knocked up at age 15, and if you graduate highschool, you are more successful in life? "

So Racist! Bigot!

Quote :

" Mountains of data shows that Asians came into this country with a far better level of education that many Americans,"

Last time I checked the same education opportunities are available to other minority groups as the alleged white privileged folk.
From my experience with United Way, there are WAY more programs focused on helping African-Americans excel in school and providing mentors
then any other racial group. This is not even counting the Affirmitive Action and abudence of minority only scholarships.

then again...

Quote :

"ld it be that if your fathers raise children, if your women don't get knocked up at age 15, and if you graduate highschool"

when you get knocked up at 15 and/or drop out of high school you taking education away from yourself. Last time I checked the "system" or the "man"
isn't the reason that some folks aren't getting the right education.

Quote :

"I wonder why black people choose to live in bad school districts"

Are their school districts inherently bad OR do the people living there make them that way?

#TRUTH

Quote :

"India's poverty rate is close to 50% but their mindset is Asian - get an education, work hard, and have a strong family"

the one's that come to America seem to flourish!

12/4/2015 3:16:10 PM

Quote :

"Asians recently immigrated are not going to dramatically have a mind and culture shift because they flew on an airplane and landed in the boundary of the US. "

Why do the Asians even bother coming to America? Didn't anyone tell them this is the land of white privilege, where personal choices are irrelevant and being white is all that matters?

12/4/2015 3:21:28 PM

See the second post on this page and tell me what the common reaction will be to a black/hispanic kid struggling in school versus a white/asian kid.

12/4/2015 3:21:57 PM

ermagerd! something that was in effect 50 years ago still affects things today! no wai!

Quote :

"could it be that if your fathers raise children"

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ]

12/4/2015 3:23:08 PM

^ good point. Just because a white dad is physically in the same house as their kids doesnt mean they contribute anything meaningful to their lives.

12/4/2015 3:28:14 PM

^...but he does spread on that sweet white privilege sauce. maybe that's enough.

12/4/2015 3:30:29 PM

Good Call!

12/4/2015 4:02:13 PM

Quote :

"Just because a white dad is physically in the same house as their kids doesnt mean they contribute anything meaningful to their lives."

What does the race of the father have to do with anything for this correlation? Nobody is saying black people cant be involved fathers. The point is having a father figure makes children more successful *GASP* regardless of race.

Of course black fathers can be and are involved with their children. The point is black families disproportionately have fatherless families, and this stems from a choice of the parents, not because bathrooms were segregated 60 years ago.

Obviously this isn't a PC thing to say, because why actually address the problem when you can blame a scapegoat like "racist society" and continue a cycle of dependent victims that vote for you.

12/4/2015 4:19:40 PM

It wasn't just bathrooms. And it was 50 years ago, not 60.

12/4/2015 4:25:33 PM

I'm sure it has a direct influence on one's decision in 2015 to not raise their child though. VICTIMS!!!

12/4/2015 4:30:20 PM

Also water fountains. Dont forget those.

12/4/2015 4:42:11 PM

Theres really no point of havimg this conversation with soemone who doesnt know history. The historical context of sytemic racism is essential to understanding how things became the way they are today. Black people don't decide to be born into a ghetto.

12/4/2015 4:56:33 PM

^
JCE will sometimes acknowledge systemic racism. I'm thinking he doesn't know what the word "systemic" actually means.

12/4/2015 5:03:48 PM

I'm sure it has a direct influence on one's decision in 2015 to not raise their child though. economic opportunities. VICTIMS!!!

I don't advocate victim mentality, but the whites have had an economic head start. Agree or disagree?

12/4/2015 5:06:58 PM

Nah man. It's 2015. All races are equal. Slavery ended like 500 years ago. Who cares if blacks had to use separate bathrooms and waterfountains 50 years ago. Big deal, i wish I had my own bathroom and water fountain everywhere I went!

12/4/2015 5:26:25 PM

High School dropouts do get less economic opportunities, (but that's because employers are racist)

12/4/2015 5:44:02 PM

so....disagree?

12/4/2015 6:23:24 PM

JCE has zero understanding of history, or how it affects families. He seems something like this and thinks

Several generations of bad decisions. If black parents and grandparents had have simply made the decision to learn how to read, their children would have been able to raise their grandchildren better.

[Edited on December 5, 2015 at 11:52 AM. Reason : h]

12/5/2015 11:51:42 AM

If you drop out of high school and get knocked up at age 15, it isn't your fault. It's because:

"In 1890 black people couldn't learn to read"

#EmanLogic

12/5/2015 12:09:28 PM

I'm going to guess JCE works in middle management.

12/5/2015 12:15:25 PM

^^ No, it isn't your fault because our sex-averse culture, rooted in Puritanism, actively discourages use of and education about birth control.

12/5/2015 12:20:45 PM