We will be ready for acc play. +1 credibility.

12/4/2010 8:08:40 PM

8-8 implies we're around #6-7 in the ACC, right? I do not believe the ACC is so bad that they can't get 6 teams in.

Also, please start reading more than the first sentence of posts. I also said we'd need a decent showing in the ACC tournie and couldn't pick up a bunch of our wins off the ACC basement dwellers (assuming we're not a basement dweller ourselves, which is still very possible )

[Edited on December 4, 2010 at 8:15 PM. Reason : #...don't want to confuse people looking to troll]

12/4/2010 8:14:20 PM

ACC is looking so bad this year that we may only get 5. Off the top of my head there is only one team that is a definite lock for the tourney and that is really shitty for the ACC.

[Edited on December 4, 2010 at 8:18 PM. Reason : sentence confusing]

12/4/2010 8:18:26 PM

8-8 would have to include at least one win over Duke and two wins in the ACCT to even sniff the bubble. 8-8 has about a 5% chance of getting in.

12/4/2010 8:24:00 PM

See now we're just talking about stupid shit

12/4/2010 8:24:45 PM

making the tournament isnt exactly "bleak" yet but its looking more and more likely that we'll miss this year due to Tracy Smith injury.

We needed to win 1 of our 4 non conference games and it looks like we'll go 0-4 now.

It really sucks and I almost wish he would just redshirt this season if the injury is as bad as I fear it is.

I think we're looking at potential conditioning problems, lack of explosiveness, and a lack of confidence with Tracy when he comes back from such a severe injury midseason which could obviously derail us.

Im probably more upset than anyone on this board that here we have a team that looks like a borderline top 25 team that suddenly gets sent back to square one with an injury to our star player.

It's just illogical and short sighted to blame Tracy Smith's injury on Sidney Lowe so I guess I'm surprised to see people to blaming our coach for our predicament. Injuries happen, you can't pin that on Sidney like packboozie and others want to do.

When Herb was our coach our athletic department picked shoes that had defects in them and our entire team got hurt and we threw away an entire season because of SHOES. Think about that for a second, that is something you can blame the Wolfpack staff for but a fluke knee injury? Come on...

Anyway, quit sniffing glue fellas. Look at what we're doing with what we have. We don't have an NCAA tournament team on our hands if Smith is out for the season. Why are you expecting one? The committee will take his injury into account if he returns and we come on strong during ACC play.

[Edited on December 4, 2010 at 8:27 PM. Reason : a]

12/4/2010 8:26:01 PM

Haha, Ernie bringing the truth ITT. If we play against the ACC like we did Wisconsin we'll be 1-15 (we can beat GT playin like that )

[Edited on December 4, 2010 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2010 8:27:00 PM

Quote :

"Injuries happen, you can't pin that on Sidney like packboozie and others want to do."

Nice try troll

12/4/2010 8:30:15 PM

Quote :

"8-8 would have to include at least one win over Duke and two wins in the ACCT to even sniff the bubble. 8-8 has about a 5% chance of getting in."

Nope definitely a 27.5% chance. Jesus man give up on making things up!

12/4/2010 8:39:33 PM

Kind of like how you make up ideas like we would have gave Wisconsin a game and beat Georgetown with Tracy?

12/4/2010 8:46:24 PM

The use of qualifiers is a beautiful thing. I use qualifiers such as I think or I believe when I make a statement based on something that can't be proven. You however make definitive statements with no proof. I feel like I already explained this...

Quote :

"Actually the only game that I said that about was georgetown. Wisconsin was most likely a loss no matter what but GT I think could have been a win. Also I am putting that as an opinion not a statement of fact. Very big difference. The qualifier I think is a pretty big hint..."

Damn dude you make it waaaaay to easy.
All things considered it is very hard to be disappointed in this game. You give us our best player and I am pretty sure this would have been a win. Also yet again we had issues with keeping our bigs out of foul trouble. Not having to play Vandy so much in the second half would have been big.

12/4/2010 8:51:58 PM

I dont understand all this blind hate for the basketball team. Get a new hobby or something guys. We are doing the best we can while our All American is on the mend.

12/4/2010 9:16:49 PM

give it a rest, no ones biting

12/4/2010 9:19:26 PM

i don't want to read it all, but can someone tell me if we're okay w/ sidney lowe after a close game @syracuse or if we still want to fire him at SOB monday?

12/4/2010 10:15:06 PM

Quote :

"You however make definitive statements with no proof."

So State didn't score 57 against Georgetown and 48 against Wisconsin?

Damn what games were I watching?

12/5/2010 2:32:38 AM

i'm wondering what games you were watching, too.

we scored 67 against georgetown:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=303250152

doesn't really matter, we still lost by 15. then we played farleigh dickinson and scored 77, and THEN we played wisconsin and scored 48.

if you're going to talk shit, at least know what the hell you're talking about.

12/5/2010 3:27:54 AM

^^really? do you not read. He didn't say ALL your statements. He said you make statements w/o proof....meaning some statements.

12/5/2010 8:00:35 AM

Let me go ahead and preface all shit talking I do towards Sidney this season by saying I think he is a great recruiter and has all the talent to have success this year and the foreseeable future. Also, I didnt realisitically expect us to come out and beat GT, Wisconsin or Syracuse in away games with all the youth we have. However, if we are still putting forth the same effort at the end of the season that we put on the floor in Madison, then I want Lowe gone.

So, in summary, I support Lowe and love what he's doing with the program (i.e. his recruiting is excellent) but the true test of whether he stays or goes is if our team is coached up to be able to play cohesively in his system.

I know that same point has been made over and over, but I guess I wanted to get it in writing so I can refer to this thread/post in the future.

12/5/2010 10:00:08 AM

^^^ Get ready for Boozie to hide until the next page where he will come out and pretend that none of this happened. Boozie=Ohoboyeeee=donbeeeeebeeeeeee?

His admonishment of Lowe's tenure sounds so much better when he just makes up information to support it!
Damn people and their focusing on actual facts!

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 10:15 AM. Reason : asdf]

12/5/2010 10:15:18 AM

I mean, to be fair to the people not 100% back on the Lowe Train, we still looked pretty awful yesterday over long stretches... but we at least put forth effort, which without Tracy Smith is enough for me at this very second.

But we do have to improve our efficiency if we have a shot in hell at making the tournament, Tracy playing or not. Our backcourt throws away possession at an alarming rate and apparently Syracuse doesn't practice shooting unguarded three pointers.

I think the Arizona game is quickly turning in to a must-win and I THINK we'll have Tracy by then, which is important. As I've said countless times what I don't want to happen is the same thing that happened with Sendek and practically fractured the fanbase. Hanging on year to year because of "next year" and blaming all the shortcomings on injuries, freak plays, bad luck and pointing to the next incoming class.

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason : and if we lose one game we shouldn't, it's going to be near impossible]

12/5/2010 10:19:24 AM

I cant wait until our entire team "clicks" on the same night. The first few games of the year Zo and CJW had good games, while CJL and Wood didnt. Last night CJL and Wood had good games while Zo was almost non-existent. If we can get all of our players (especially the big 3 freshmen) to have a good game, I think we can beat just about anyone.

12/5/2010 10:29:00 AM

^^At this point our average is only 12.5 turnovers a game (admittedly against some inferior competition although only 10 against GT who has some damn good guards) but if we can keep it around that level we should be fine. We have historically been TERRIBLE against a zone and Syracuse is about as good as it gets with a 2-3 so I am not that surprised with the miscues we had yesterday.
^ All three freshies + Smith clicked in the preseason pfeiffer game and it was pretty impressive. Getting all the freshmen to have good games on the same night against good competition will be difficult.

12/5/2010 10:37:21 AM

I mean, it's really simple and I don't know how anyone on either side can argue against this. If Lowe makes the NCAA Tournament this year, he stays. If he doesn't, he's gone. Bad losses were to be expected with the youth of this team (and the Wisconsin game counts as one of those simply because of how it happened) but they're supposed to be countered out with big wins too. Syracuse was an opportunity to make up for the Wisconsin game, and we fell short. No big deal in the grand scheme, as long as we make up for it elsewhere

12/5/2010 10:45:25 AM

^ no, no one expected us to be without our all-american this year. That changes the perspective drastically.

If Painter or Harrow were hurt it'd be a different story. We can afford to lose a role player and still compete. We can't afford to lose our only difference maker though.

12/5/2010 11:18:01 AM

Quote :

"His admonishment of Lowe's tenure sounds so much better when he just makes up information to support it! Damn people and their focusing on actual facts!"

Here's a fact for you: we are 0-3 against BCS teams. You love facts so much. Please to win against a team worth a damn. I would really love to know what I am making up. If we don't beat Arizona, then we lost to every team that is decent competition. Wrap your head around that. Year five and we are headed to another NIT bid....

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 12:37 PM. Reason : Holy hell I typed 57 instead of 67 fuck me I don't know anything ]

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason : the excuses have to end somewhere or we will be with Sendek v2 only Lowe is going to NITs]

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason : 90% of this board hated Herb I don't get it]

12/5/2010 12:33:09 PM

does BCS even apply to basketball?

12/5/2010 1:01:01 PM

^ Not specifically, but it's absolutely fine to refer to the Power 6 conferences as the BCS conferences IMO. I've done it in the past and only a severely retarded fool wouldn't understand it.

12/5/2010 1:04:18 PM

you cant argue with these carpetbaggers, packboozie. herb was a piece of shit, sid is an even bigger piece of shit. ive never seen so much defense for a worthless loser coach outside of inside carolina. he can't coach, can't win, yet because he wears a red jacket and beat the tar holes ONCE its like he gets a free pass in hope for greener pastures "next year." we should all be sick of "next year" by now.

12/5/2010 1:05:42 PM

^Who's saying "Wait til Next Year" at this point? I haven't seen it.

We're 8 games into the season right now.

12/5/2010 1:11:39 PM

Quote :

"^Who's saying "Wait til Next Year" at this point? I haven't seen it."

Nobody is saying it directly, but its implied when people are like, "he shouldn't be fired if he doesn't make the tourney this year."

I just have the same feeling with Sidney that I did with Chuck. After year two with Chuck I just didn't feel like he was a good coach. I never saw anything that led me to believe he was going to get better either. He made bone-headed coaching decisions and our teams were, and continued to be, undisciplined.

He was left with a pretty bare cupboard the first few years so I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's definitely not blown me away with his coaching ability and I haven't seen much improvement either. I'd so much love to be proven wrong because coaching changes definitely set programs back and I like Sidney, but it's better to do it sooner than later.

Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

12/5/2010 1:33:41 PM

^^exactly.

Quote :

"Here's a fact for you: we are 0-3 against BCS teams. You love facts so much. Please to win against a team worth a damn. I would really love to know what I am making up. If we don't beat Arizona, then we lost to every team that is decent competition. Wrap your head around that. Year five and we are headed to another NIT bid.... "

Wow a post from Boozie that is actually somewhat based in reality! Good job man. I guess you sobered up a little bit this morning?
We are also 0-3 against BCS teams without Smith. You and Forteknobslobber seem to think you can ignore this fact in your rants, make up fictional scores, and say that people are saying "wait till next year". I am just keeping you honest sorry if that is sooooo offensive.

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 1:35 PM. Reason : asdf]

12/5/2010 1:34:40 PM

I don't fault people for wanting their team to do well and enjoy an ncaa tournament run but I'm pretty sure in the back of their minds the majority of folks in this thread are all thinking it's better to suck this year and get lowe out of town rather than lose in the 1st round and sid get a 5 yr extension

12/5/2010 1:39:02 PM

^if folks are hoping that we suck this year so we can get rid of our HC, then they just suck as fans.

12/5/2010 1:49:34 PM

UNC beat Kentucky, so jprince is back to troll.

12/5/2010 1:53:17 PM

Where does Lowe hide the teams balls during the last five minutes of a game? The team acts scared and won't attack the basket at all. If we have a lead, we relinquish it. If we are down by 1 or more, we won't ever catch up.

12/5/2010 1:54:41 PM

Quote :

"Nobody is saying it directly, but its implied when people are like, "he shouldn't be fired if he doesn't make the tourney this year." I just have the same feeling with Sidney that I did with Chuck. After year two with Chuck I just didn't feel like he was a good coach. I never saw anything that led me to believe he was going to get better either. He made bone-headed coaching decisions and our teams were, and continued to be, undisciplined. He was left with a pretty bare cupboard the first few years so I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's definitely not blown me away with his coaching ability and I haven't seen much improvement either. I'd so much love to be proven wrong because coaching changes definitely set programs back and I like Sidney, but it's better to do it sooner than later. Here's to hoping I'm wrong."

I feel pretty much exactly the same way

it appears to me that the offense is "swing it around the perimeter until someone is open"

12/5/2010 1:56:04 PM

^i hate to be so repetitive, but we're missing our best player, one of the ACC's most formidable post-players. I have to think that we'd be going inside much more effectively and running set-plays better if tracy wasn't out.

12/5/2010 2:10:27 PM

^Absolutely...and getting to the line more often. Painter and Howell are weak down low. They don't go up strong and they don't draw fouls. Passing the ball around the perimeter with the occassional cut or drive does not get us to the line. We shot 11 FTs (went 5-11) vs Syracuse and 13 (went 8-13) vs Wisconsin. I know the officiating was a little iffy against Wisconsin...but with Smith we will draw more fouls...with means more points. You don't win many games when you only make 5 FTs all game.

12/5/2010 2:25:28 PM

Quote :

"I feel pretty much exactly the same way it appears to me that the offense is "swing it around the perimeter until someone is open""

Swing passes around the perimeter are a prime component of breaking down the zone. You pass around perimeter until someone fails to rotate properly and then you break it down.

12/5/2010 2:28:43 PM

Quote :

"Swing passes around the perimeter are a prime component of breaking down the zone. You pass around perimeter until someone fails to rotate properly and then you break it down."

You can also break down the zone through dribble penetration. Brown did it a few times in the first half but we didn't even attempt to do that in the second half. Harrow should be able to do that pretty easy.

We completely shut down against the zone in the 2nd half.

12/5/2010 4:22:09 PM

Quote :

"Harrow should be able to do that pretty easy."

How is that you've idealized Harrow to be some sort of godly PG?

Eight games in and he's playing out of control a lot -- but you think he'll be able to easily break down one of the toughest zones in the nation?

And WE'RE the delusional ones?

12/5/2010 4:25:46 PM

He's probably the quickest guard we've had on this team in a decade. You have to be quick/fast to penetrate a zone.

Brown and Harrow can do it, Javi IMO, is not quick/fast enough to penetrate a zone. Personally I don't think our team is disciplined or well-coached enough to pass around and break a zone (especially not the Syracuse zone). It will happen every now and then, but not consistently enough to beat them. We could have/should have used more dribble penetration.

I don't think Harrow is the second coming. I don't think he should be starting at this point in the season either. But he's too good to be sitting on the bench for the first 15 minutes in the 2nd half.

12/5/2010 4:32:08 PM

harrow didn't turn the ball over last night, so how was he playing out of control

i can see why javi played more last night, he was hitting shots, but ^ is right, he shouldn't have sat out for so long. he was doing a good job of controlling the tempo last night

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 4:35 PM. Reason : shane]

12/5/2010 4:34:09 PM

Quote :

"Personally I don't think our team is disciplined or well-coached enough to pass around and break a zone (especially not the Syracuse zone)."

But they did. It fell apart when our shooters got cold.

I feel safer with that strategy (which almost worked) than having Brown (who was off all day) and Harrow (who Syracuse's bigs would have collapsed on) trying to break Jim Boeheim's zone on their own.

--

Harrow wasn't creating off the dribble. He's been out of control plenty this year. Not as much last night because he hardly touched the ball. But when he did, he didn't do anything with it.

[Edited on December 5, 2010 at 4:37 PM. Reason : ]

12/5/2010 4:36:19 PM

Quote :

"Swing passes around the perimeter are a prime component of breaking down the zone. You pass around perimeter until someone fails to rotate properly and then you break it down."

C'mon... Syracuse plays a 2-3... even a cursory knowledge of basketball knows you want a flash to the weak side elbow in the middle of the zone to either dish to foul line extended or down low...

It's not a 1-3-1 where you have room on the wings...

12/5/2010 11:47:47 PM

Quote :

"Eight games in and he's playing out of control a lot"

I wouldn't say a LOT because he's not turning the ball over, but he's not always making the best pass, or taking the best shot. he's a little out of control at times, but never as bad as leslie can get.

12/6/2010 1:04:46 AM

harrow isnt better than javi right now, that is obvious to even the casual observer.

to suggest otherwise is ludicrous, stop smoking so much before the game

12/6/2010 1:30:10 AM

sometimes harrow is playing better than javi, sometimes javi is playing better. neither is consistently on right now.

12/6/2010 4:59:16 AM

Quote :

"But they did. It fell apart when our shooters got cold. "

They actually just averaged out. We were hitting threes from 5 feet behind the three point line (even Javi and Harrow thew in a bomb in the 1st half)...then we started missing them like most people do. You rarely stay hot for the entire game. You have to find different ways to attack the zone...we did that for a little while in the 2nd half. Either we didn't go back to that or Syracuse adjusted and we didn't respond.

Either way, we gave that game away in the end. We had control and Syracuse didn't go bonkers and run away with the game. They kept missing shots and giving us opportunities and we didn't take them. Very disappointing loss.

12/6/2010 8:13:52 AM

very happy w/ the cuse game...just got to work on all of our forwards foul trouble.

12/6/2010 10:01:56 AM