It gets interesting when you actually hit the section on Human Rights in that annual report.

8/22/2005 1:20:03 PM

Its much more interesting when use use the 'edit post' feature instead of posting three goddamn times in a row.

8/22/2005 1:27:06 PM

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1034342

"The pressure to exaggerate statistics grew in the late 1990s as Chinese officials sought to pump up the economy to stave off the effects of the Asian slump."

8/22/2005 1:30:09 PM

China honors plenty of human rights. They simply use the "attention" technique to determine totalitarian behavior.

For example, the average chinese citizen pays his taxes, owns property, files lawsuits, and saves money. They do not need to fear having their property confiscated, being beated, or murdered by their government as long as they do not draw attention to themselves. As long as they don't break the rules, such as speaking out against the government or joining organizations that do so, they are free to do as they please and their industry is their own.

This degree of autonomy can only be dreamed of in Saudi Arabia and is fundamental to the current prosperity.

Hell, if the chinese government does damage to your property you can sue for compensation, try doing that in Saudi Arabia.

8/22/2005 2:50:39 PM

Quote :

"China is communist."

Bejing has Starbucks on nearly every corner. What kind of pussy communist country is that?

8/22/2005 3:00:29 PM

And a Wal-Mart situated on Tiananmen Square.

8/22/2005 3:10:21 PM

^^

they've just been taking notes on how to pacify their citizens

8/22/2005 3:11:58 PM

Quote :

""The People's Republic of China (PRC) is an authoritarian state in which, as specified in its Constitution, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP or Party) is the paramount source of power. Party members hold almost all top government, police, and military positions. Ultimate authority rests with the 24-member political bureau (Politburo) of the CCP and its 9-member standing committee. Leaders made a top priority of maintaining stability and social order and were committed to perpetuating the rule of the CCP. Citizens lacked the freedom to express opposition to the Party-led political system and the right to change their national leaders or form of government." http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41640.htm"

esgargs, YOU ARE A FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

When I have quoted in the past from the websites of various human rights organizations and also the US State Department about INDIA'S HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD, you have shot them down saying that all those sources are biased against India.

BUT NOW, you quote the Statae Department against China. Obviously, the only reason would be that China is allied with Pakistan, and your hatred of Pakistan runs so deep that you would use the same source that you maligned a few months back. Don't worry, I hate Pakistan's human rights record too, just like any other country's if it is horrible.

I can post from HRW, AI, and the US State Department right now about India's record, and the things will be so horrible, they will burn any normal human being's eyes (same can be said about Pakistan, or China, or Saudi Arabia, or any other country you despise).

But of course, you would play it down.

You have a diesease.

It is called as nationalism, jingoism, blind patriotism, chauvinism, whatever you want to call it. A majority of Americans have this disease too.

You are unable to see the bad in your country, UNLIKE ME, WHICH IS THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US.

You can say what you like in response, but the above fact will remain unchanged, unless you are willing to accept the horrible travesties of justice, and oppression of women and lower caste people in your country. I doubt it, but let's see, maybe you will prove me wrong. I won't respond unless you are willing to open your eyes.

[Edited on August 22, 2005 at 3:22 PM. Reason : I might quote from State Dept. etc. to help you open your eyes though,]

8/22/2005 3:16:59 PM

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41740.htm

Here's India's Human Rights record.

Have fun ridiculing India's Constitution and the prevalent anarchy.


I hope you wear sunglasses to protect your eyes.

[Edited on August 22, 2005 at 3:23 PM. Reason : .]

8/22/2005 3:19:36 PM

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41731.htm

Here's Saudi Arabia's

8/22/2005 3:22:50 PM

Man, you really are something else. Are you fucking blind, I mean literally blind?

Here is the section on women, and this is just about 1% of the report. Read the sections on children, trafficking in persons, minorities, indigenous people, and societal abuses and discrimination, and it will make you cringe. Oh I forgot, you are blind. You can paste links, but are unable to read.

P.S. I couldn't even post it all because it was more than 10,000 characters.

P.P.S. Damn you are blind. The FIRST line under the HR section:

Quote :

"Arbitrary and unlawful deprivation of life by government forces (including deaths in custody and staged encounter killings) continued throughout the year."

Quote :

"Women Domestic violence was common and a serious problem. According to the National Family Health Survey released in 2002, 56 percent of the women said that domestic violence was justified. These sentiments led to underreporting and, combined with ineffective prosecution and societal attitudes, made progress against domestic violence difficult. According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), 49,170 cases of domestic violence were reported in the country from 1998-2001. The NCRB reported in July that the number of rapes reported in 2003 had declined from 2002, from 16,373 to 14,809, while reported molestations had decreased from 33,943 to 31,716. At year's end, the NCRB had not released new data. The Home Ministry reported that in New Delhi during the past year, there were 130 cases of reported dowry deaths, 490 instances of rape, 489 instances of molestation of women, 1,211 instances of cruelty by the husband or in-laws, and 1,599 instances of sexual harassment. In response to the high rate of rape, New Delhi police held two workshops per week on gender sensitivity. A major issue was the high rate of marriage of underage girls. According to the Health Ministry's Country Report on Population and Development, half of all women were married by the age of 15, although the legal age is 18. The press reported that violence against women was increasing, although some local women's organizations attributed the increase to increased reporting. Only 10 percent of rape cases were adjudicated fully by the courts, and police typically failed to arrest rapists, thus fostering a climate of impunity. Upper caste gangs often used mass rape as an intimidation tactic against lower castes, and gang rapes often were committed as punishment for alleged adultery or as a means of coercion or revenge in rural property disputes. The number of reported rape cases and the extent of prosecution varied from state to state. The Government prosecuted rape cases. For example, in April, the Delhi High Court criminally charged 4 presidential bodyguards for their involvement in the October 2003 gang rape of a 17-year-old girl. In June, four men were sentenced to death for raping and subsequently murdering a 6-year-old girl in June 2003. Providing or taking dowry is illegal under the Dowry Prohibition Act of 1961; however, dowries continued to be offered and accepted, and dowry disputes were a serious problem. In a typical dowry dispute, the groom's family harassed a new wife whom they believed had not provided a sufficient dowry. This harassment sometimes ended in the woman's death, which the family often tried to portray as a suicide or accident. Data collected by the Ministry of Home Affairs and the NCRB show that there has been an overall decline of reported dowry deaths in the last 3 years, decreasing from 6,851 in 2001 to 6,822 in 2002 and then declining further to 6,285 in 2003. The number of dowry related complaints received by the National Commission for Women (NCW) as reported by the Home Ministry also showed a decline. Dowry harassment complaints in 2002 numbered 1,074; in 2003, complaints numbered 895, and complaints numbered 453 in the current year. However, this decline may be a result of under-reporting and not a result of an overall decline. Many women allegedly committed suicide because of dowry pressure. Usually at a disadvantage in dowry disputes, women have begun to speak out against dowry demands. For example, in August 2003, Nisha Sharma filed a complaint with the Delhi police when her prospective groom and his family asked her father for more dowry, minutes before the wedding. The potential groom was detained for 14 days while formal charges were filed for violation of the country's dowry laws. The case received considerable publicity, and her story has become part of the school curriculum in Delhi to teach young children about the problems of the dowry system. Under the Penal Code, courts must presume that the husband or the wife's in-laws are responsible for every unnatural death of a woman in the first 7 years of marriage--provided that harassment was proven; however, in practice police did not follow these procedures consistently. In such cases, police procedures required that an officer of the rank of deputy superintendent or above conduct the investigation and that a team of two or more doctors perform the postmortem procedures. In July, the Madhya Pradesh State Government reportedly created the position of a Chief Dowry Prevention Officer (CDPO) and required that all government servants seeking to get married produce a sworn affidavit by the bride, the groom, and his father that no dowry exchanged hands. Several other states also had CDPOs, including Kerala and Bihar, although it was unclear how effective they were. Cases of dowry murders were reported regularly in the media. One of hundreds of such cases was that of Amarjita Kaur, who was married to Raj Kumar in 1999, and who was burned alive in May by her husband and in-laws in Punjab because of her parents' inability to keep up with her in-laws' ever-increasing dowry-related demands. Punjab police filed murder charges against the deceased's husband and in-laws, and at year's end the cases were still pending. In January, the media reported on the case of Jyoti Chandra, a woman in Uttar Pradesh whose husband and in-laws tried to kill her and their daughter by hitting the child's head against the floor. The woman and her daughter were rescued and taken to a hospital. Her husband Promod was in judicial custody while the rest of the family disappeared. Sati, the practice of burning widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands, was banned in the 1800s but was still practiced in some areas. For example, in April, women's organizations in Rajasthan challenged a judgment of the special court, which acquitted 11 defendants in a Sati case from 1987. The women's groups filed a Public Interest Litigation suit after the state government declined to appeal the acquittal. In May, in Uttar Pradesh, the in-laws of a 24-year-old woman electrocuted her, causing the amputation of her limbs, after she refused to succumb to the sexual advances of her father-in-law. No action was taken, and none was expected against her in-laws. During the year, honor killings continued to be a problem, especially in the northern states of Punjab and Haryana. Human rights organizations estimated that up to 10 percent of all killings in those two states were so-called honor killings; however, the true number of such killings may be much higher. In September, an honor killing was reported in Rajasthan, in which a woman married a Dalit man, and was later killed by family members. Dalit women were often singled out for harassment. For example, they were occasionally stripped naked by mobs and paraded in public for offending higher castes. In February, a 50-year-old Haryana woman had her nose cut off by a man because her son was in love with his niece, a non-Dalit. Police made no arrests in the case, stating they had no orders to do so, and none was expected. Numerous laws exist to protect women's rights, including the Equal Remuneration Act of 1976, the Prevention of Immoral Traffic Act of 1956, the Sati (Widow Burning) Prevention Act of 1987, and the Dowry Prohibition Act of 1961. However, the Government often was unable to enforce these laws, especially in rural areas where traditions were deeply rooted. According to press reports, the rate of acquittal in dowry death cases was high, and due to court backlogs, it took an average of 6 to 7 years to conclude such cases. The Government has taken a number of steps to assist the victims of crimes against women. These include establishing telephonic help lines, creating short-stay homes, providing counseling, occupational training, medical aid, and other services, and creating grant-in-aid schemes to provide rehabilitation rescue. Prostitution was illegal, but commonplace. According to UNICEF, the country contained half of the 1 million children worldwide who entered the sex trade. Many indigenous tribal women were forced into sexual exploitation (see Section 6.c.). In Lucknow in February, six tribal women were reportedly raped while working in a brick kiln. The police initially refused to lodge a complaint and alleged that three of the six victims had not actually been raped. After higher authorities intervened, police filed charges and arrested two suspects. In recent years, prostitutes began to demand legal rights, licenses, and reemployment training. For example in June, numerous sex workers in Goa were displaced after authorities demolished their homes. The sex workers, who refused the Government's offer of rehabilitation, did so, according to the chairperson of the NCW, because they were misled. The NCW indicated that the state government was prepared to renew its rehabilitation package for the women. The country is a significant source, transit point, and destination for many thousands of trafficked women (see Section 5, Trafficking). "

[Edited on August 22, 2005 at 3:41 PM. Reason : ]

8/22/2005 3:33:34 PM

Quote :

"China is communist."

only when it came to politics

8/22/2005 3:35:52 PM

Dude Najeeb...wtf are you babbling about?

China is an anarchy by Constitution...you cannot change the Govt there...talk to any Chinese graduate student on campus about the human rights there....most of the cases you point on about India are not even Constitutionally endorsed or attested by the Judiciary. I am not defending them...but they are what? A fraction!

The thread is not abotu Human Rights at all...although I'd go so far as to say that India's Human Rights record is FAR FAR FAR better than Saudi Arabia's or China's or Pakistan's. Heck, you could be an expatriate in Saudi Arabia and get murdered BY LAW just cuz the Govt. thinks you performed a robbery. YOU GET NO LEGAL REPRESENTATION.

Now, get back to the point...and prove to me how China isn't an anarchy.

8/22/2005 3:41:06 PM

And are you not smart enough to guess why you can ACTUALLY read about isolated cases in India's report?

YES

The press is not a part of state or in other words, isn't state run...isn't subject to federal scrutiny or is censored. I don't think Google was ever censored in India.

Can you say the same about China? Heck, what are some of the leading Chinese dailies globally that are independent and free?

same question about Pakistan and Saudi Arabian media. I know for a fact that housemaids in Saudi Arabia are tortured, killed, and raped by Saudi men. But you cannot read isolated cases...because no one reports about them.

[Edited on August 22, 2005 at 3:51 PM. Reason : http://www.timesofindia.com .. http://www.hindustantimes.com .. ]

8/22/2005 3:48:40 PM

Quote :

"you cannot change the Govt there"

all it takes is a famine

8/22/2005 4:07:21 PM

Quote :

"Abuses included instances of extrajudicial killings; torture and mistreatment of prisoners, leading to numerous deaths in custody; coerced confessions; arbitrary arrest and detention; and incommunicado detention. The judiciary was not independent, and the lack of due process remained a serious problem. The lack of due process was particularly egregious in death penalty cases, and the accused was often denied a meaningful appeal."

so its pretty much LAPD + Texas

Quote :

"56 percent of the women said that domestic violence was justified"

but seriously,

Quote :

"Numerous laws exist to protect women's rights, including the Equal Remuneration Act of 1976, the Prevention of Immoral Traffic Act of 1956, the Sati (Widow Burning) Prevention Act of 1987, and the Dowry Prohibition Act of 1961. However, the Government often was unable to enforce these laws, especially in rural areas where traditions were deeply rooted. According to press reports, the rate of acquittal in dowry death cases was high, and due to court backlogs, it took an average of 6 to 7 years to conclude such cases. "

In India there are, and always have been public policy efforts to try and unfuck all the things the old schoolers have done. matter of fact, therein lies India's downfall. it was always too busy stepping on the backs of its own poor. it was easy for outsiders to come and convert the downtrodden.

the caste system is probably the most efficient form of slavery in existence--from the moment they're born, they're told they're inferior, and are servants of those born in a higher caste.

don't get me wrong Trap, you're still a sensationalist, always citing the worst events to prove some point. but you got to admit, atleast India is taking steps to correct its wrongs.

8/22/2005 5:42:32 PM

isn't the correct answer: MSG?

8/22/2005 5:49:53 PM

are they threatening to stop doing our dry cleaning?

8/23/2005 3:15:17 AM

Quote :

"atleast India is taking steps to correct its wrongs"

albeit slowly, but yes, i agree.

8/23/2005 3:43:42 AM

What is really a threat to our country is our war mongering president/vice president and anyone else who supports thier idiotic campaigns. Lets face it, this war was strategically flawed to begin with.

8/23/2005 3:54:41 AM

It all started with the anouncement to the world that afghanistan will be acousted for 911 and its regime has run out of time. What about the terrorist, dont you think they woke up and saw this and got the hell out of dodge. Why have we supported a war that makes all muslims into terrorists. We're not going to win, and the patriotic thing to do is pull for withdraw when their is atleast a sizable police force for iraq. Then hope and pray things stabalize, and prepare for the next set of attacks which are enevable by the terrorists cells. Or we could just nuke em all and sing songs of victory as our world collapses into chaos.

8/23/2005 4:01:52 AM

and when the end of the world is nigh

and the bad guys have destroyed us

and the superpower of china has overtaken our economy

and millions of American lives have been lost

there will still be the internet, where we can talk about where we went wrong

instead of actually trying to do something about it

8/23/2005 4:05:12 AM

The road to 2008 will be an arduous one at best. I dont think there are enough balls in america to coup de something this president out of office, although it would make my day.

8/23/2005 4:10:33 AM

your hatred for the man blinds you

8/23/2005 4:15:45 AM

And that is? ....

[Edited on August 23, 2005 at 4:17 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2005 4:16:27 AM

kinda sad

8/23/2005 4:18:20 AM

I was waiting for more detail there chap

8/23/2005 4:18:53 AM

Who am I kidding, theres just no reasoning with the blind

8/23/2005 4:22:51 AM

i can't tell you what you're thinking, or how to change it. I just urge you to look at everything in terms of balance, look at the big picture, and remain cautiously optimistic regarding everything possible. Perhaps Bush is not the great satan that many extremists consider him to be? Perhaps the world is not as "fucked" as we let our fears tell us? Perhaps this is not the beginning of the end for the USA? Maybe those patriots that support the country aren't all just mindless sheep? maybe they're onto something?

it's easy to be afraid of China, Russia, and the situation as it stands. I can't blame you for that. Just know if and when the time comes, we'll be in good hands.

8/23/2005 4:23:50 AM

Dont get me wrong, when someone is taking over the world i'm down with the draft. But when that country is yours you need to speak out for change. I've told you my stance and the way I think. You dont have to except it. I will not infringe on your freedoms. But, when you push forward optimism on an already doomed track that not only affects me, our country, the world, and or rights to live in peace, you have stepped over the line. And i will call you out for that. Bush has used religion as his vice for war just as extremist muslims have, make no mistake.

8/23/2005 4:29:32 AM

well man, i disagree with ya that the track is doomed, and that Bush is a religious extremist, so lets just leave it at that. IMO, pushing forward with optimism is much better than with pessimism, although pessimism sells more documentaries, books, and gains more blog readers.

anyway, i'm goin to bed. good talk, though. see? it's rare to have a soapbox convo without too much sludge being thrown

8/23/2005 4:38:08 AM

Agreed, I just want you to know I dont hate anyone much less the president. My motives come from my form of logic. To each his own. Good night.

8/23/2005 4:39:50 AM

Quote :

"are they threatening to stop doing our dry cleaning?"

No no no, you've got it all wrong. Thats Koreans. You should say "chinese food." If it was the Vietnamese threat, it'd be "nail salons."

8/23/2005 10:18:57 PM

Quote :

"the US needs to reach out to this potential ally, and at the least, stop selling arms to a country that is harboring Bin Laden"

And also giving centrifuges for that fun, nutty nuclear business in Iran.

8/23/2005 10:43:21 PM

8/24/2005 7:48:37 AM

Quote :

"In western china there is an extremely large number of devote muslims communities. They see america as killers of their kindred in afghanistan."

Um no. I have been to China several times and even to the muslim parts of western china. In W. China there is no anti american feelings there. The chinese government does a good job of opressing those people so thier hatred is towards the chinese government. I mean in major chinese cities "Shin Jiang" people or the chinese muslims cant even get work permits or places to stay. They roam around like gypsys. They were always cool with me and offered me food and "water smoke" and hash. And Im as white of a white boy as you can get.

As far as China being a sleeping Giant gonna wake up and attack the US, not gonna happen. So what if they are smarter and in a postition to make more money. That is natural selection. Doesnt give us the right to kill to maintain our Bushist agenda.

8/24/2005 4:56:34 PM

Smarter? If they are so smart, why did they wait so long to start competing?

8/24/2005 5:02:28 PM

China is a sleeping giant that IS capable of defending itself, that is what I was saying. I'm dont think they're dumb enough to start pre-emptive war even though they would be more in the right then we were.

Quote :

"In W. China there is no anti american feelings there. The chinese government does a good job of opressing those people so thier hatred is towards the chinese government."

50% wrong 50% right. There is hatred to their government in the poor underdeveloped parts of western China. However, to say their is no anti-American feelings just because you've been there how ever many times is just fucking wrong. You need to stay away from that hash. Where do you think afghani's are getting most of their weapons. You wanna know why they were nice to you. Probably because their government warned them not to kill you. That may be going a bit to far, but so are you in saying theirs no animousity there towards the west.

[Edited on August 24, 2005 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

8/24/2005 8:10:45 PM

what makes you think china would never pre-emptively attack a nation?

They have been arming nations with weapons secretely for a long time now.

How do you think Pakistan got its nuclear know how...Korea and China

8/24/2005 8:15:25 PM

When they do i'll put my foot in my mouth. But, seeing how they're are raking in cash from exports and growing at an alarming rate makes me think they are pretty docile right now. On the other hand what makes you think they would?

[Edited on August 24, 2005 at 8:17 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 24, 2005 at 8:18 PM. Reason : dammit i type to fucking quick]

8/24/2005 8:17:32 PM

Quote :

"How do you think Pakistan got its nuclear know how...Korea and China"

and when we fight them I hope your right on the front line Mr. India

8/24/2005 8:25:02 PM

Wasn't their a big uproar in wallstreet that if china wanted to cripple us all they had to do was sell.
Why haven't they done this either if they're so hell bent in attacking us. My stance on all this is, if china's such a great business partner with our country why cant we try to be allies. My god, it would be great to see their extensive military helping us in Iraq wouldn't it.

8/24/2005 8:40:46 PM

people

8/24/2005 8:41:17 PM

^^ It isn't the right time yet.

And US and China have been nothing more than trade partners...they have never looked at each other with trust.

Not to mention that they probably have the biggest infantry in the world and immense nuclear weapons.

8/24/2005 8:48:34 PM

True True, I'm not denying that. It just furthers my point that we should be allies is all i'm saying.

8/24/2005 8:52:00 PM

China's and America's sphere of influence is a touchy subject indeed. I dont think we should consider them a potential enemy just because they are super power #2. America needs to be careful not to look like another nazi war machine, Bush has done a good job of making that almost impossible. Would you agree?

8/24/2005 8:57:11 PM

Quote :

"50% wrong 50% right. There is hatred to their government in the poor underdeveloped parts of western China. However, to say their is no anti-American feelings just because you've been there how ever many times is just fucking wrong. You need to stay away from that hash. Where do you think afghani's are getting most of their weapons. You wanna know why they were nice to you. Probably because their government warned them not to kill you. That may be going a bit to far, but so are you in saying theirs no animousity there towards the west."

I heard stories of Muslims in western China who had problems with the local government and attacked buildings with pitch forks and farm tools. Pretty well organized group of extremists them Western Chinese. They are nice to people because people are nice to them and because they know you have money. I guess one old crazy woman yelled at me once in the street. She said "You British Bully us Chinese" in chinese but my Chinese friends just laughed.

8/24/2005 9:10:50 PM

Quote :

"I'm dont think they're dumb enough to start pre-emptive war "

Damn, I have got to quit contradicting myself. LOL

[Edited on August 24, 2005 at 9:13 PM. Reason : I'm taking ENG 111 dont worry ]

8/24/2005 9:10:51 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/24/AR2005082402318_pf.html

China is trying to hack into DoD networks.

Read more about "Titan Rain"

8/25/2005 11:38:26 AM

Banned websites in China in order to prevent citizens form learning about Falun Gong and independence movements in Tibet and Taiwan.

wikipedia.org, amnesty.org, groups.google.com, falundafa.org, news.bbc.co.uk

from Wired.

8/25/2005 11:49:38 AM