Quote :

"dude we're in the north even at 1-6 its not over yet the vikes are done and the bears a lions are just as bad as we are we have a shot "

look, its over...the schedule only gets worse from here on out

the vikings are toast, the packers are toast, the lions are in it if they get their offense together but they are screwed with the tiebreakers.

the bears are not pretty but they are a far far superior team than green bay in virtually every aspect of the game. The defense is sensational...they dont give up points, they score points, and they dont give up shit on the ground. The offense is able to score enough to win, due to the defense being so good. Orton is coming along, grossman is coming back, muhhamad makes big plays and the running game is the best in the division

10/31/2005 7:14:02 PM

Haha, as a passing QB this isn't even an argument.

Imagine if Vick were on the Packers for just a second. Do you actually think they'd win a damn game? A decimated OL, 2 RB's out, 2-3 WR's out and constantly playing from behind, haha, Vick would be a turnover machine and more than likely get hurt just a couple of games into the season.

I like that stat about when Vick is out they lose their games, let's look at this season.

When Vick is in they've beaten an overrated Eagles team, a then JP Losemanized Buffalo team, a crappy Minny team, a crappy NO team(that almost beat them), and a crappy Jets team.

The only games they've lost this season were to Seattle(Vick) and NE(Schaub). They've lost just as many games with Vick at the helm as Schaub. I have no doubt that Schaub could have torched those teams that Vick beat, I mean especially Minny, NO, and the Jets.

The Atlanta Falcons don't have many injuries, they have one of the most underrated RB's in the league, a solid OL, a mediocre core of WR's, one of the best TE's in the league, and a QB that can run but not much else. With Dunn's effectiveness all year Vick has had it easy finding most of his passes short down situations and just enough for the first down.

All I know is ATL better hold onto Schaub, as many games as Vick will probably miss this season I'm sure he'll get more playing time. Since in 5 years(including this year already) Vick has NEVER played every game in a season.

Down late in the game when you can't run the ball and you have to throw, there's no way I would rather have Vick at the helm of my team. You put Favre on the Falcons and I wouldn't be suprised if they were undefeated and Super Bowl favorites.

10/31/2005 7:30:43 PM

you took this shit too seriously

10/31/2005 7:39:03 PM

I'll take any Favre over Vick anyday, not just 1995 Favre.

Just because Favre had a bad game last week, you think you can have this argument?

Even considering the fact that he now has to throw to practice squad receivers that weren't on an NFL roster prior to last week, and that he has no run game to take any pressure off of him he is still putting up better numbers than Vick. And even with a five interception game he still has a higher QB rating than Vick.

For those that think that Favre hasn't been any good the last 4 years...
2001: 94.1 QB rating 32 TDs
2002: 85.6 QB rating 27 TDs
2003: 90.4 QB rating 32 TDs
2004: 92.4 QB rating 30 TDs

and before any of you look it up, they're much better than Vick's QB rating those years.

10/31/2005 8:45:25 PM

I know this thread isn't about Ahman Green, but in response to rallydurham Ahman Green is good.

I agree that he was no good this year, obviously because now he's out for the season and because he was working with a new offensive line. But I'm just going to throw out a little stat for you.

From 2000-'04 he rushed for more yards (6,848) and had more total yards from scrimmage (9,036) than any player in the National Football League.

10/31/2005 8:48:57 PM

1) Ahman Green used to be good. He sucked in the 2nd half of last season and the first half of this one. He's probably done.

2) Brett Favre is a bad QB right now. Mike Vick is a very, very good one.

3) Stop arguing this, you look stupid.

11/1/2005 10:03:41 AM

Favre throws better INTs than Vick

11/1/2005 10:25:48 AM

Vick wins games, enough said


just because he isnt a good fantasty football player doesnt mean he sucks

you crazy kids

11/1/2005 10:52:00 AM

Quote :

"1) Ahman Green used to be good. He sucked in the 2nd half of last season and the first half of this one. He's probably done. "

O-line

11/1/2005 11:00:01 AM

^^No the Atlanta Falcons RB's, OL, and D win football games, Vick just gets most of the credit.

11/1/2005 11:10:07 AM

id take favre over vick b/c favre is white

11/1/2005 11:25:09 AM

^
lol

11/1/2005 12:04:07 PM

Quote :

"^^No the Atlanta Falcons RB's, OL, and D win football games, Vick just gets most of the credit."

i dunno man you may be right but hell Tom Brady doesnt post impressive numbers, yes i know they are better then Vicks, but in what aspect, Brady cant run for shit Vick can, vick made just as many plays as Brady did when brady won all thsoe SB's... and he got an ass ton of credit for it and MVP's too


i dont think it was all Brady that won those games for the aptriots in the past 4 years but he got an assload of credit

so jstu have to be from what aspect, ok vickisnt a good passer but he sure can run and score running, the opposite for brady so who is better?

11/1/2005 12:04:37 PM

Brady still doesnt get respect to be honest.

11/1/2005 12:32:29 PM

^I agree. How many people post threads on here simply to say how much they love to fondle Tom Brady's nuts? Not nearly as many as Vick, that's for sure.

11/1/2005 12:50:21 PM

well just becuse it doesnt happen on tww doesnt mean it doesnt happen come on man...


there are plenty of people in the sports world that suck his nuts hard

OMg the next or better then joe montana... blah blah blah omg he kicks peyton mannings ass year in and year out blah blah blah

11/1/2005 12:51:49 PM

Quote :

"Vick wins games, enough said just because he isnt a good fantasty football player doesnt mean he sucks"

yeah, sure, just not important games

he'd be the best quarterback ever if he could only hit a wideout

11/1/2005 1:17:38 PM

Quote :

"Down late in the game when you can't run the ball and you have to throw, there's no way I would rather have Vick at the helm of my team. You put Favre on the Falcons and I wouldn't be suprised if they were undefeated and Super Bowl favorites. "

Thats funny, I seem to remember Vick rushing for a game winning TD with hardly any time left to beat the Panthers like 2 years ago.

^Oh, and Vick made it to the NFC Championship last year, sure he didnt win it, but give him time. He has won more important games than Peyton does. So does Peyton suck too?

[Edited on November 1, 2005 at 2:27 PM. Reason : ,]

11/1/2005 2:25:54 PM

ill be the first one to say that Vick is a damn good football player. Conventional QB no, he sucks at it, but thats not a problem for him.

That said I would take the likes of brady, manning, mcnabb, or even plummer this year over him if I was making a team.

the argument that schuab wins no games when he is in is retarded. That entire team is MOLDED to fit vick. Schaub (sp?) was quite impressive when he played.

Taking him over vick is also a bit of a stretch.

11/1/2005 2:32:14 PM

If you were making a team, and you had the choice between Plummer and Vick, and you chose Plummer, you would prolly be fired about 5 seconds after making that choice.

11/1/2005 2:38:22 PM

thats why youre not in charge of an NFL team

11/1/2005 2:57:13 PM

Dear Jesus, God, Allah, Buddah, and whatever Wiccan fags pray to:

Please make Favre good again so my roommies don't get depressed and cry.

It will make our house happy again.

Thank you.

Engin

11/1/2005 3:08:12 PM

Engine

11/1/2005 3:14:17 PM

All those SB's and I've consistently said that Tom Brady got too much credit those years they won. The running game, the D, and the OL were the reason they won most of the games. Except last year where he and Branch looked impressive and Branch got the MVP.

Brady has gotten a lot better as a passer, and this year they have been forced to pass more and they've had injuries, and look at their record.

If Atlanta lost Dunn, a OL or 2, and some defensive players you can't obviously believe they'd be winning as many games as they have this year.

I think Vick is a PHENOMENAL athlete, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's as great of a QB as he's made out to be sometimes. I mean if he is going to be a scrambling QB, then he should at least stay healthy. I mean the guy can't finish one whole season and play every game, he's been in ATL for 5 years(including this year) and he can't finish an entire season playing every game.

Vick or Plummer...interesting comparison. Both behind 2 super OL's with good running games backing them up. Plummer is a better passer, Vick is a better runner, and Plummer is more of a risk taker. But Plummer and Co. have won just as many games as ATL this year, so according to your argument of winning games as a QB, why wouldn't you take Plummer? I mean based on wins he's just as good. But that's why I think your agument about wins is extremely weak, because one player doesn't make a team.

11/1/2005 8:00:08 PM

Plummer is historically mediocre to shitty.

He's just having an up year.

11/1/2005 8:51:31 PM

Quote :

"i dont think it was all Brady that won those games for the aptriots in the past 4 years but he got an assload of credit"

Vinatieri

11/1/2005 9:02:20 PM

Since Plummer arrived in Denver(2003) his regular season record as a starter is 25-9
Vick who has been with Atlanta since 2001 has a record as a starter of 28-13.

Interesting, 2 more years with a program, and 3 more wins and 4 more losses.

Plummer got on a good a team and look at that record, barring the seasons before hand with a shitty Arizona team.

This furthers the point, just because a QB is on a team that wins, doesn't mean the QB is the reason they win and doesn't make them a good QB. It's like in college, the best player doesn't always get the heisman, it's a player on a winning team that gets all the recognition. That's like saying Jason White was an incredible QB just because he won the heisman when everyone knows(including him) that Oklahoma won was because of the defense and running game.

11/1/2005 9:10:19 PM

I don't really care about stats either and I agree that wins are the most important stat. But besides this year when the team is killed by injuries, Favre has had just about as many wins as Vick. And Vick has a defense to help him get wins, Favre hasn't had a good defense for the past couple years.

I'd like to see Vick play with a broken thumb on his throwing hand the entire season like Favre did a couple years ago. He still led his team to the playoffs and made the pro bowl.

I think Vick is an awesome player, and would like to have him on my favorite team any day. But until he wins a superbowl and wins 3 MVP awards I don't think you should compare the two.

11/1/2005 9:56:23 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to see Vick play with a broken thumb on his throwing hand"

I don't think that would slow him down.

11/1/2005 10:07:15 PM

he'd be more fumble prone

11/2/2005 12:00:16 AM

(1) He'd fumble the ball more than he does now
(2) His already horrible pass accuracy would get even worse, if thats at all possible.

11/2/2005 12:04:14 AM

^^^haha yeah what difference would it make? maybe it'd even IMPROVE his accuracy lol

11/2/2005 2:33:36 AM

How about this....you are a GM in the NFL.....You can trade Vick for either Plummer of Favre. If you chose to do anything but refuse the trade, you are a fucking moron. There is about one trade that noboby in the NFL would make, and that is Vick for Manning, and even at that, its still a coin flip.

11/2/2005 2:56:29 AM

Oh, and before you try to talk shit about Manning vs Vick...Fans sell out stadiums to see Vick, people come to games to see Vick play, people pay money to see Vick win games. The Colts dont sell out games because fans want to watch Manning pass. The Colts dont sell out games so the fans can watch Manning not win the big games, the Colts dont sell out games because nobody cares if they win or lose. Advantage Falcons

11/2/2005 3:00:41 AM

Falcon fans pay money to come watch Vick win games. Plain and simple. "Hey wanna trade Vick for Jake Plummer?" haha, jesus, if anyone ever made that trade, they would be fired so fast even a thread on TWW saying "OLD" wouldn't save them

11/2/2005 3:03:10 AM

you're talking to yourself :x

11/2/2005 7:08:42 AM

^^ yeah really you fucking loser use the damn edit or dont say the same garbage 3 times in a row.

I would definately take manning AND brady way over vick. Who the fuck brought up trading anyone? Now you have to make shit up to argue against to make what you percieve as 'points' ?

And yes, if i was building a team, like I said, not trading qbs for an existing team you dumbass, I would put this years's plummer behind a good O-Line with a good RB over vick.

[Edited on November 2, 2005 at 9:13 AM. Reason : *]

11/2/2005 9:12:13 AM

I would take the Burger King over Favre

11/2/2005 9:31:11 AM

Yeah trading is a whole different story, I wouldn't make that trade if only for the fact that Vick is younger than Plummer, though Vick's career probably won't last nearly as long as Plummer's due to injuries.

And there are a few QB's I'd take over Vick right now. Palmer, Brady, Manning, or McNabb would all be prime choices over Vick right now.

Vick does put fans in the seats, but if you think Green Bay doesn't sell out EVERY GAME then you are kidding yourself and right now Favre is the only person putting the fans in the stands. The Colts are probably the only QB of the ones I named that doesn't sell out every game, and that's looking to change right now as they are undefeated and if they can get past NE this week they can go deep into the year undefeated with their schedule.

All I am saying is don't put down Favre because of this year. He has lost almost his entire OL, their entire running game, and most of their WR's. If you think ANY QB in this league could operate as effective under those circumstances then you are dumber than this argument. Look at Brady, his team is injury striken and his play has taken a slide and their record isn't nearly as good and they only lost Dillon for a few games.

11/2/2005 9:31:15 AM

Palmer and Manning over Vick for certain.

Brady is a close call, it depends on the makeup of your team

mcnabb over Vick is a reach at this point. He is possibly more inaccurate than Vick and he isnt a rushing threat now

11/2/2005 10:05:34 AM

i can't even believe these two quarterbacks are being compared.

Favre is one of the best ever, Vick will never even come close. I might as well hike the ball to LT... vick is suspect when he's forced to throw the ball.



and Favre is done?? what the fuck? he led the league in TDs just two years ago, and up until his performance against the Bengals he was leading it again this year. Watch some football and then talk shit kiddies.

11/2/2005 8:05:52 PM

^ who cares what Favre was?

He's not as good as Vick is right now.


not even close

11/2/2005 8:08:19 PM

If you say "not even close", then you obviously haven't been watching football this year.

Except for last week against the Bengals, Favre has been as good or better than any QB in the NFL this year.

11/2/2005 8:32:39 PM

ive seen every game the Packers have played.


And you are incorrect.


Favre is part of the reason they are 1-6.

11/2/2005 9:31:20 PM

He started the year with a bum ankle on his planting foot, and it really sapped his power for the first few games.

He was almost perfect against the Panthers, Saints and Vikings. Best QB in the league during that 3 game stretch. And there really shouldn't be any debate, given his lack of run-support and depleted recieving corps.

He just got lit up against the Bengals. Expect him to bounce back against the Steelers. He always does.

11/2/2005 9:36:46 PM

he wasnt any good against the Panthers until the 4th quarter...

he was a big part of the reason they were down 20 points.

11/2/2005 9:42:40 PM

He was the ONLY reason they were in that game in the end. He came damn close to pulling it out too.

11/2/2005 9:47:25 PM

He was pretty fucking sick in the NO game, but NO sucks complete shit.

I dont think NO has come close or beat a decent team all year.

11/2/2005 9:57:26 PM

Quote :

"he was a big part of the reason they were down 20 points."

Considering his one interception was ripped away from the receiver, I'd say you could blame Favre for maybe 7 points, but certainly not 20.

But you've already shown you're more than happy to dream up any figures possible to try and shit on Favre, so I'll let you have your fun.

11/2/2005 10:01:13 PM

You cant hate the man for hating Favre.

I mean shit I dont like Vick , i still think he is a good athlete. Lucky for me Vick isnt a good QB statistically (far from it), so its easy to look up reasons why he is hype.

You would have to be an idiot to think Favre couldnt lead that falcons team to the record they are at now. Warrick dunn is having a silly fucking year, and crumpler is a walking talking completion.

You would have to be an even biigger idiot to think Schaub sucks because he lost to the Patriots by a field goal. Hell he may suck, but by that logic, manning is terrible too.

11/2/2005 10:06:04 PM