wow you are going to make a crappy parent
gg

12/7/2005 4:59:54 PM

Well, if a "crappy parent" is one who doesn't give his kids expensive-ass cars for no good reason, then yeah.

12/7/2005 5:01:55 PM

its pretty obvious you are bitter because you don't like the person you are and want to blame it on your parents
take some responsibilities for your fuck ups

theres nothing wrong with giving gifts

12/7/2005 6:27:29 PM

There is a difference between giving gifts every now and then, and spoiling your kids rotten. All these kids whose parents buy them expensve cars along with everything else they want will never appreciate anything. How can you appreciate anything when it's just given to you?

12/7/2005 6:37:25 PM

how do you know what else kids with nice cars get
or if they did anything to deserve them

you dont

12/7/2005 6:41:01 PM

i don't think this fucker understands what THIS soap box is about

take this shit to chit chat

12/7/2005 6:47:12 PM

i hope i'm rich enough to give my kids whatever they want

12/7/2005 6:49:35 PM

i dont see how we can say that getting something as a gift makes you not appreciate it. do you not appreciate any gift you have ever gotten?

12/7/2005 7:27:34 PM

Quote :

"its pretty obvious you are bitter because you don't like the person you are and want to blame it on your parents"

I'm not entirely displeased with myself. You've got to understand, I don't -- and pardon me if this sounds a bit odd -- mean "shiftless chain-smoking alcoholic" in a strictly bad sense.

And I definitely don't blame my parents for any of my faults. They did a better job at parenting than anyone else I've seen, and my current condition is no doubt a collosal disappointment to them. Our relationship is great.

They gave me gifts, but they didn't spoil me, and I thank God for it, because, for all my faults, I don't feel like I'm entitled to much of anything.

If I were to blame anyone for what I am (if I felt there was much to be blamed other than simple human fallibility), I know precisely who they would be, and I think I could make a pretty good case for it.

But as long as we're throwing around baseless psychological evaluations, it seems that you are either:

1) Feeling defensive about having got a bunch of shit you don't deserve, or
2) Feeling bitter that you didn't get what you did think you deserved

I'm having trouble picking. Either way, either you've got shitty parents, or you think you do.

Quote :

"theres nothing wrong with giving gifts"

No, there isn't. Gifts are good within reason, just like most things.

12/7/2005 8:30:50 PM

if the parents want to give a car there is nothing wrong with it
sorry your parents sucked

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 8:39 PM. Reason : if it makes you more jealous i get whatever i ask for]

12/7/2005 8:38:44 PM

I was unaware that "I'm glad I wasn't spoiled" means "I'm envious of people who get spoiled"

but whatever.

I never asked my parents for a car because I knew I hadn't done anything worth the $15,000 on top of what they have to spend on me just keeping me alive and somewhat entertained, not to mention educated. It isn't as though I asked and was turned down. I suspect I could have gotten it, or at least one of the busted-up hand-me-downs we keep acquiring.

12/7/2005 8:41:57 PM

how did an incoherent first post lead to 2 pages

12/7/2005 8:51:22 PM

you dont have to earn gifts
thats what makes them gifts

12/7/2005 8:51:27 PM

What the fuck is this shit?

Ubern00ber!

btw...my parents bought be a new sports car at 16, not because they loved me more than other parents, but because they could afford it. Why the fuck do you care?

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 8:56 PM. Reason : btw]

12/7/2005 8:55:34 PM

i think generalizations are stupid because they are...well generalizations.

if we want to talk about stereotypes, these types of threads are a perfect example. they would make it seem that poorer parents instill a holier-than-thou attitude in their kids saying that the only ppl who are worthwhile/productive are those that earned every dollar/item they have.

i see it time and time again on the paintball forum i frequent. kids just rail on others for having "mommy and daddy" buy them everything. i really still see no problem with parents getting their kids things "just because." even expensive things doesnt necessarily mean a kid is spoiled (even if they didnt "earn" it). hell you can spoil kids in a lot more ways than simply buying them everything they want.

12/7/2005 9:07:12 PM

as long as we are going on generalizations i know a lot more poor people that feel entitled than i do rich people

12/7/2005 9:14:06 PM

Quote :

"btw...my parents bought be a new sports car at 16, not because they loved me more than other parents, but because they could afford it. Why the fuck do you care?"

It's not like I stay up nights worrying about it or anything. It's just that based on my experience, knowing what I know about you, it is more likely than usual that I would not like or respect you once I got to know you any better. Ditto for your parents.

There could be a lot of other variables here, but having been spoiled by rich-ass parents has historically proven itself to be a good predictor for me.

Merely commenting on what parenting styles seem to be more effective in producing tolerable offspring, is all.

Quote :

"you dont have to earn gifts thats what makes them gifts"

That's bullshit. You don't give gifts to people you know but don't like. If there's someone in your family that you detest, you may give them a gift -- even one on par with other gifts you give people -- but it's only to save face and keep the peace.

It's not like you have to do a certain amount of hours of work to "earn" the gift, or get certain grades.

12/7/2005 9:27:11 PM

Quote :

"That's bullshit. You don't give gifts to people you know but don't like"

thats completely different

if a gift is "earned" then its not a gift its a reward
most people dont "deserve" any of the christmas presents they get but someone loves to give them presents and im sure they love to receive them

12/7/2005 9:33:57 PM

Quote :

"thats completely different "

No, it isn't. Someone earns your liking by being a decent s ort of chap, at least to you. If they treated you like shit, you wouldn't like them.

Quote :

"most people dont "deserve" any of the christmas presents they get"

I would so they do, if only by virtue of reciprocity -- you got a gift from a person to whom you probably gave a gift.

12/7/2005 9:39:32 PM

you get them a gift because you like them or care about them
not because they deserve it or not
there no reason to get gifts for people you dont like

yeah the $1 peice of crap little billy bought at eckerds is why he deserves the hundreds of dollars his parents spent on him

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 9:41 PM. Reason : you're pretty slow]

12/7/2005 9:40:35 PM

What kind of person is it that you like?

My parents were poor as shit when they started out. They sold their high-school rings so they could eat. They made a good bit of money over the years.

So would you like them because they "earned" what they have and not like me because they gave me shit? Or do you not like them because they gave me shit too.

Besides, what do you expect wealthy people to do? Make their children dress poorly and buy their own cars?

I had a job, but they chose to give me a car for being top of my class when I was a sophomore in high school.

12/7/2005 9:47:26 PM

Quote :

"yeah the $1 peice of crap little billy bought at eckerds is why he deserves the hundreds of dollars his parents spent on him"

Like I said, little kids are exempt from most of this discussion for all kinds of reasons.

Quote :

"you get them a gift because you like them or care about them"

Right
You do this because something they are or have done has warranted your friendship or affection
Or do you think that you like people because Cupid shot you in the ass?

12/7/2005 9:47:49 PM

bgmims --

Like I said, there's a lot of things to consider to come up with the most informed decision, but already it looks like you're the exception to the rule.

Your parents earned what they have, which is a plus. You did at least something (grades-wise) to deserve your car, which is another plus. Ditto for having a job. I still think a sports car for a sixteen year old is a bit excessive for anything short of sainthood -- a regular car would obviously be more reasonable -- but it's doable, as long as they either ensured or already knew that you weren't going to take that shit for granted.

There's something to be said for giving your kid a car for purposes of practicality. If you live way the fuck away from everything, you're going to need access to an automobile, even if it isn't yours. But once you start going past the basic car stuff, you're just giving your kid symbols of status that really isn't his.

Quote :

"Besides, what do you expect wealthy people to do? Make their children dress poorly and buy their own cars?"

What I expect them to do is go on doing what they always have, creating a new generation of useless little shits and then equipping them with all the material goods they need to maximize their non-utility.

What I think would be better for them to do is give their kids what they need and help them -- within reason -- get what they want. Once you get to the age where you could be working or at least pulling your weight at home, you need to be doing that if you want fancy shit.

12/7/2005 9:54:39 PM

I can see your point. I think there's kinda two different types of rich people though.

Most of my friends (with money) knew that they were expected to be something when they grew up and that the gifts they were given from their parents meant they had to work hard in the future.

Then there's the ones with bastard children who think the trust-fund should cover as many pairs of giant sunglasses as they can fancy until they die

12/7/2005 10:00:14 PM

i wasnt talking about little kids

12/7/2005 10:01:40 PM

Then why did you call him "little billy"?

There is also, to an extent, the concept of buying things for others according to one's own means. If someone really can't give you something, that they would if they could counts just the same.

Not to be cliche, but "It's the thought that counts."

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 10:04 PM. Reason : ]

12/7/2005 10:02:20 PM

lots of people are plenty capable of getting gifts... don't... and still get a gift

i mean if you are only giving gifts to get one back that says a lot about your character. gg.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 10:32 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 10:32:06 PM

That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

But if a person can get you a gift and doesn't, and you get them one, it certainly says something about the nature of your relationship, and depending on certain other factors it's probably not a good something.

12/7/2005 10:36:35 PM

most of my friends dont have to try to be nice to me or make me like them, we just get along. "it takes a lot more effort to frown than to smile." or however that gayness goes.

where do ppl like paris hilton fall on your chart grumpy. she obviously never needed to work, but she's probably making an assload off her book, shows, etc. she might just do it for the attention, but she's still being a productive member (sadly it's no worse than half the other shows/books/etc out there) of society and earning cash (though her parents still pay for an assload of shit im sure).

12/7/2005 10:46:08 PM

Paris Hilton is the epitome of the problem. If her parents weren't shitting in high cotton, she'd probably be hooking, because it damn sure doesn't look to me like she has the skills to get by in life on her own.

Quote :

"most of my friends dont have to try to be nice to me or make me like them, we just get along."

Look, you don't like everybody, and it's not as though you like the people that you like for no reason at all. Niceness isn't the best word, but at any rate, they offer something that you've deemed worth your time.

12/7/2005 10:49:50 PM

if you are mad at someone cause you got them a gift and they didnt get you one thats poor character

12/7/2005 10:50:27 PM

i swear to god this is the worst fucking thread.

12/7/2005 10:53:22 PM

i still dont get your point grumpy. i like them cuz we enjoy similar activities, have similar senses of humor, etc. what about that is something they have to do or work at and thus earn?

perhaps some your best friends have a higher sets of standards and should be there when you need them or whatever (oh cry, hard times), but i would never expect them to do it nor is that the only way to become a good friend of mine.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 11:00 PM. Reason : which i shall now refer to as: presentworthy friend (no longer good friend)]

12/7/2005 10:59:37 PM

You are grossly oversimplifying what I'm saying.

There are several good reasons why someone would not get you a gift despite their ability to do so. But if whatever that reason amounts to is, "I don't care about you enough to get you a gift," while you care about that person enough to get them one...it's a lopsided relationship that needs some evaluating. Not necessarily terminating, just...evaluating.

Basically -- and this applies to most interactions -- what it boils down to is, "Did you take your course of action because you're a selfish prick?" If you did, the other person has every right, I think, to abandon the friendship.

And I never said that reciprocity was the reason to give gifts. It isn't. But you don't sincerely give a gift to someone you know doesn't really care about you, unless it's to encourage them start caring back. You can lie to my face all you want and claim that you regularly hand things out to people you don't like or who don't give you the time of day, it isn't going to convince anyone.

Charity, of course, being a completely different issue entirely, before you bring it up.

12/7/2005 10:59:51 PM

Quote :

"what about that is something they have to do or work at and thus earn?"

There is inevitably some level of work in being a friend. It may not be drudgery, "Oh, God, I have to do this" kind of work, but it's still work.

If they're good friends, they've probably been known to go at least a little out of their way here and there to help you out, above and beyond what you would expect just any person to do. That might be as simple as driving to meet you somewhere because you want to hang out (and if you instigated it, you probably wanted to hang out more than they did), it might be as painful as getting into a barfight on your behalf, hell, for all I care he gave you a kidney.

I don't care if a guy is into all the same shit as you and thinks mostly the same, if he never does a damn thing for you, or at least demonstrates that he would if it were needed or requested, you're not going to be giving him gifts.

12/7/2005 11:06:59 PM

im not really big on giving gifts period, i was just asking.

it just seems weird that a kid has to be a saint to get a sports car, but your friend just has to meet you to eat to get a gift.

12/7/2005 11:12:24 PM

Quote :

"it just seems weird that a kid has to be a saint to get a sports car, but your friend just has to meet you to eat to get a gift."

If you can't see the difference between a sports car and the kind of thing you get one of your friends, I'm not sure what I can do to help you.

Not to mention the rather important distinction between an adult giving largesse to a young person and two adult peers doing the same with each other. Kids are still in a formative period when it is crucial that they learn and be reminded that they have to earn what they get in life. ("Kids," of course, here applying to anyone that isn't pretty much past maturity, which neither you nor I was when we were 16 or, to be honest, 18. The parent-child relationship is even more distant from others)

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably buy all my friends mad crazy shit. But all of my friends are old enough now that they're not really at risk of viewing me as a supply of infinite undeserved free stuff.

12/7/2005 11:49:12 PM

theres a lot of mooch friends out there. i understand your point moreso on the friend thing, but i still disagree that parents are generally unable to teach their kids properly while giving them nice things.

12/8/2005 12:05:51 AM

Quote :

"i still disagree that parents are generally unable to teach their kids properly while giving them nice things."

No no no no no! Parents can teach their kids properly and give them the world, it's just that they rarely do.

12/8/2005 12:11:48 AM

and you are basing that on gross generalizations

well i generalize that poor people are all hand out wanting drains on society

12/8/2005 12:12:51 AM

the rarely is the part im not necessarily convinced of, but that again goes back to what we think is rich and what we think is the limit on "nice gift."

12/8/2005 12:12:58 AM

I was thinking about this while watching a supercars show on cable tonight. I was wondering how many people could afford to buy the $1m car I saw. I thought that was pretty bad, someone spending that much on a car. Then I thought about me and my transam, about how to some people it would seem excessive and a waste. It was at that point I realized how those millionaires can buy million dollar cars. They don't care what other people think about them.

Someone who complains, talking about their modestly priced volkswaggen, and speculates as to the size of other men's genitalia based on the car they're driving is the one who cares too much about what others think.

12/8/2005 1:26:56 AM

Quote :

"and you are basing that on gross generalizations"

Until someone manages to do a study, all I've got are my own experiences. Of course, now you will claim your own set of completely opposite experiences, which I could normally except if it wouldn't so obviously at this point be an extention of the very tactic you're using here that it would be hard to take seriously.

Quote :

"well i generalize that poor people are all hand out wanting drains on society"

The interesting thing is, it doesn't actually matter whether or not this is true for purposes of our discussion.

Quote :

"They don't care what other people think about them."

I'm not seeing how that logically follows from anything you said, or from common sense. Take the status out of it and I have trouble believing that anyone would spend a million dollars on a car. There's only so much comfort, power, or what have you that can be crammed into an automobile.

12/8/2005 1:53:39 AM

Quote :

"I'm not seeing how that logically follows from anything you said, or from common sense. Take the status out of it and I have trouble believing that anyone would spend a million dollars on a car. There's only so much comfort, power, or what have you that can be crammed into an automobile."

Well, if they had a billion dollars I'm not sure they wouldn't think so deeply about it. They'd probably look at the 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, enough downforce to drive upside-down at enough speed, etc... and go for it. If I had a billion dollars I would too, regardless of whether or not anyone understood why.

12/8/2005 2:50:28 PM