Quote :

"Please explain why. I've read time and time again that lifting is important in losing weight which, as Amsterdam stated, is his intended goal. It raises the metabolism for up to 24 hours after the workout and helps to prevent some of the muscle loss associated with weight loss. "

YES YES YES

Quote :

"What is the big deal about doing it the same day? I know it will stunt muscle growth significantly, but it's not going to stop it alltogether and he never said he wanted to bulk up. What negative consequences does a person face when they do them both on the same day? "

1. For effective lifting, you need to use glycogen stores. If you have just done 1 hr of cardio, you dont have shit left to move the weight. You need to be using your muscles to there max potential, you can only do this when they have been well fed and rested for about 48 hrs. (hit the same muscle groups no more frequent then every 48 hrs).

2. Your muscles dont grow in the gym. They grow outside the gym, they grow while you rest, if you are fed, between workouts. If you hit your bicep every day, youre essentially tearing it up, and not providing it with the recovery it needs to repair itself (or to rebuild bigger and stronger).

Quote :

"What negative consequences"

Chronic elevated cortisol. You will end up losing muscle, you will end up burning NO fat.

Quote :

" In Brief: Overtraining syndrome is a serious problem marked by decreased performance, increased fatigue, persistent muscle soreness, mood disturbances, and feeling 'burnt out' or 'stale.' ... What Is Overtraining? In medical literature, the word "overtraining" has had many meanings. It has been used to mean overload training, overreaching, and overtraining syndrome. Overload training, a few days of hard training followed by short-term fatigue, is an essential part of all athletes' training. The physiologic homeostasis of the body needs to be displaced by intensive training stimuli so that performance capacity can be improved, a process called reaching or supercompensation (2). Several days of intentionally heavy training are followed by some days of less intense training and rest to achieve supercompensation and peak performance. "

Read this entire page:
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2001/05_01/uusitalo.htm



[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 12:10 AM. Reason : - ]

1/13/2006 12:04:43 AM

did that shit again today

crowded as fuck

1/13/2006 12:14:34 AM

so is it bad if i run/jog to the gym (like 1.5 miles or so) then lift (hr or so), then walk back?

1/13/2006 12:23:15 AM

i'm sticking with just doing lifting and cardio on seperate days.


monday: chest, back, biceps and calves
tuesday: thighs, triceps, delts
wednesday i ran 3 miles w/in 45 minutes
thursday i did : chest, back, biceps and calves
today - I'm doing 45 minutes on the stationary bike and abs

1/13/2006 10:41:01 AM

Quote :

"For effective lifting, you need to use glycogen stores. If you have just done 1 hr of cardio, you dont have shit left to move the weight. You need to be using your muscles to there max potential, you can only do this when they have been well fed and rested for about 48 hrs. (hit the same muscle groups no more frequent then every 48 hrs)."

holy misinformation, batman!

cardio = aerobic

if you train your aerobic efficiency well enough, you will burn primarily fat. that is to say, the longer you stay below your aerobic threshold, the more efficient your body will become at burning fat. you do not burn very much glycogen in aerobic base training.

Quote :

"Chronic elevated cortisol. You will end up losing muscle, you will end up burning NO fat."

yes, this is a symptom of overtraining. but that's overtraining. as long as you're performing aerobic base training as it should be done, you will not overtrain.

[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 10:50 AM. Reason : .]

1/13/2006 10:46:53 AM

The entire bodybuilding community is with me on this one. I know of NO fitness experts that would EVER say that running for one hour (5-10 warm up, max) is what you should do before lifting. I have never known ANYONE to ever state that tiring yourself out doing cardio and then lifting will get anything accomplished.

Men need and want muscle mass, and you wont build a gram if you kill yourself on the track before touching weights.

[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 10:54 AM. Reason : -]

1/13/2006 10:52:36 AM

since when did cardio become running for one hour?

aerobic base training should be easy. when you finish it, you should feel refreshed, not trashed. otherwise, you went too hard.

[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 10:54 AM. Reason : .]

1/13/2006 10:53:36 AM

Quote :

"1. For effective lifting, you need to use glycogen stores. If you have just done 1 hr of cardio, you dont have shit left to move the weight."

You tell me. I never said thats what hes doing, and neither did he. I would assume he is running at a decent intensity.

[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 10:56 AM. Reason : -]

1/13/2006 10:55:38 AM

sorry where is the part about him killing himself?

1/13/2006 10:58:01 AM

One hour of cardio at medium to high intensity is difficult. You will be wiped, you will not have energy reserves for lifting. This is the opinion of the bodybuilding community. I see no reason to assume he is doing one hour of some weak low intesity walking BS.

He asked why lifting and (presumed decent intensity) cardio on the same day is overtraining, I answered that question.



[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 11:03 AM. Reason : -]

1/13/2006 11:01:53 AM

um, i can run one hour at a solid 6:30 pace without breaking a sweat. you don't have to be walking to be aerobic.

1/13/2006 11:03:52 AM

then make a thread bragging about how fast and fit you are. hes a beginer, hes not you.

1/13/2006 11:05:02 AM

i didn't say he was me, but you're saying that you have to be walking to be going aerobic for one hour.

which is just dumb.

1/13/2006 11:06:08 AM

no, i am saying for the beginer, that is more likely to be the case.

1/13/2006 11:07:27 AM

i agree that one hour may be a little much. however, i think using a blanket statement that cardio before lifting will cause overtraining is erroneous

[Edited on January 13, 2006 at 11:08 AM. Reason : .]

1/13/2006 11:08:41 AM

yes but i only repeated that statement becuase i had previously explained in detail what type of cardio i was talking abuot.

1/13/2006 11:19:50 AM

another great day @ the gym. i'm in a rhythm now. if only I could get some results.

leg press. 4 x 8 = 430lbs

leg extensions 4 x 8 = 130lbs

delts: dumbell press 4 x 8 = w/50lbs

tricep: pulldowns 4 x 10 = 100lbs

1/14/2006 9:40:43 PM

please dont tell me you are using machines in place of free weights. please god. For the lower body its ok, but for the upper body, please tell me youve been using only free weigts.



http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=MachinesVsFreeWeights

[Edited on January 14, 2006 at 10:29 PM. Reason : 0]

1/14/2006 10:22:01 PM

My new program is a now machine whatsoever. Not even for tricep push down. I do have to use pulleys for pull throughs and hammy work but oh well.

1/16/2006 12:23:12 AM

it's been about 2 weeks now. when am I going to get some results? i noticed that after workouts am not as sore as I was when I started. my diet isn't too scientific. i stay away from unhealthy stuff and eat reasonable meals and lots of water. what gives?

1/17/2006 10:01:47 PM

Give it time and keep a log of your weights. I'm usually always sore but I add weight every week

1/17/2006 10:20:45 PM

i've been up'ing either the weight or the reps each week. it's tough though. also I try to alternate the exercises each week as well.

i took it easy today and just did 45min on the stationary bike, but it still kicked my ass. my heart rate was between 150-167 the entire time.

1/17/2006 10:32:32 PM

"results" .... sure....if your goal is cutting up, you should be able to lose one pound of fat per week if youre doing what youre suppose to be doing

of course weight fluctuates ~6lbs from your norm, so youll need seveal dozen weights to average them. i hope you took pictures, or you took careful measurements with calipers.

1/17/2006 11:07:31 PM

typically 3 weeks of real workouts is what it takes to start noticing little things... after 2 months you should be well on your way to getting what you want if not already there...

biggest thing is when you get to your 80% mark or whatever where your ALMOST there to not start slacking off, the last part is the hardest

1/18/2006 7:44:04 AM

i took pics. we'll see. i'm increasing the weight gradually. what i'm noticing is i'm not as sore as I used to be. however, the cardio still kicks my ass. i do cardio in btween lifting. i'd say it's cardio for 45 minutes twice in the week and lifting about 4 days in the week and 1 rest day. what's a good balance for getting cut?


any advice on tweeking my strategy would be great. looking to drop body fat percentage, K.

1/19/2006 10:24:20 AM

resculpting your body takes time its not something you do in a couple weeks

i have a feeling your diet is not near as good as it should be for what you are going after. do a little more research and make sure when you go to subway to be healthy you actually get something healthy like a sub on wheat with no cheese etc

a lot of people think they are eating well when in fact they are not

1/19/2006 10:49:49 AM

i no longer believe this thread or this thread creator

1/19/2006 11:00:16 AM

Quote :

"i took pics. we'll see. i'm increasing the weight gradually. what i'm noticing is i'm not as sore as I used to be. however, the cardio still kicks my ass. i do cardio in btween lifting. i'd say it's cardio for 45 minutes twice in the week and lifting about 4 days in the week and 1 rest day. what's a good balance for getting cut?"

Perfect. 1 rest day per week is good. What do you mean by 'balance'? Between lifting and cardio?

Also...dont expect your strength to continue to increase if your are cutting. You SHOULD have caloric deficit, which means your weight should NOT be increasing, and the amount your lifting shouldnt be increasing that much.

Are you sure you are eating 500 cals below your maintinence? If youre not, then youre in a 'bulking' phase. You are more fit, youre adding muscle, but not burning and body fat.

Google TDEE and find out how much youre burning. Keep a calorie journal. See if youre getting it right.


[Edited on January 22, 2006 at 12:05 AM. Reason : -]

1/22/2006 12:01:39 AM

3 weeks - close to a month now and I can't see any results. my weight is flucuating between 194-200lbs. and the only thing I noticed was I was able to squeeze in an extra set doing lat pull downs and i don't get as fatigued as quickly when doing cardio. physically i don't see any changes and neither has anyone else that i see regularly.


this sh!t sucks, G.

1/25/2006 10:37:08 AM

well then you arent vomiting enough

1/25/2006 10:42:42 AM

3 weeks .... thats 3 lbs....doubt anyone would notice 3 lbs

get back to me in 6 months

1/25/2006 10:59:49 AM

still working out. getting a bit discouraged though. also I skipped yesterday. and I sort of have an excuse not to go tonight. also I cheated and had fast food this morning for breakfast.


motivate me please. also still no noticeable changes, but I think I'm getting a V-shape in my rib/ab section . . .

2/7/2006 6:37:21 PM

dont worry about the cheat meal...one every week is fine...it's only one meal it wont have a big impact at all

keep working hard and you will get the results you are looking for

2/7/2006 6:45:49 PM

do more coke cokehead

2/7/2006 6:57:06 PM

i've started dragging my ass out of bed at 5:00 and hitting the gym for the last four weeks

after sitting on my ass for the last ~4 years and eating mostly fried food i'm back up to power cleaning my body weight for 3 x 10 sets and i've moved most of the gut weight northward

that's 2 chest/arms and 2 shoulders/back workouts a week with a 2 mile jog (or equivalent) after each

getting up in the morning makes it much easier to stick to it and i think it does a lot for the weight loss since you're up and burning all day - we also have a cafeteria at work so i get a big meat + vegetables meal in the middle of the day which keeps me from slipping so much at night when i don't feel like cooking anything

2/7/2006 8:54:11 PM

stress and working late caused me to take a full week off. i lifted last night and did total body (back, chest, legs, delts, triceps, and biceps) with heavy weights/low reps. I had to force myself to go yesterday. I think I'm back dedicated again.

is one week off after a consistent 6-7 weeks okay?

2/11/2006 8:00:21 AM

An occasional week off isn't bad after several weeks of a consistent, progressive routine. I have found that it actually benefits my lifts. I usually do this when transitioning routines.

2/11/2006 9:29:30 AM

I would say the first month or so of a new, hard routine is the worst. You will be the most fatigued throughout the day and you won't see any results. However, after a month to 6 weeks, you will start building yourself back up again.

2/11/2006 9:36:21 AM

^^yup

2/11/2006 11:05:19 AM

trying to get back in the groove, but I'm deeply depressed today. i realized it this morning when I woke. my first thought was "i can't wait to get this day over with so I can go back asleep".

2/13/2006 5:46:28 PM

take a stimulant

2/13/2006 5:59:43 PM

The secret to getting back to the gym is going to one with a lot of hot women. You look forward to it every day.

Take the University of Miami Wellness Center or the the Key Biscayne Wellness Center that I go to for example. I never want to skip a day.

2/13/2006 6:15:35 PM

My secrets to getting to the gym:

I. Having a gym at my office.
A. I hate getting up early, and by 5PM I'm ready to go home, so I go on my lunch break.

II. Taking a fitness class.
A. There are people of all ages/ fitness levels/ genders, so you still have something to work up to, but you can give yourself a pat on the back for being more awesome than the 100 year old grandma in the wheelchair who didn't finish the kick boxing set.
B. High energy music.
C. You can be as social or anti-social as you want.

III. Dealing with days you don't want to go.
A. I always say I can have 1-2 days off per week, but I don't plan them. The days I REALLY can't work out are my days off. I never feel guilty about missing a day.
B. Promising myself an easy workout, as long as I go. Moreso for cardio than lifting, though.
C. Splitting up the workout (ex: brisk 20 minute walk after lunch, 20 minutes on the elliptical after work).
D. Do something fun instead. Play football, take your bitch out dancing, do a workout video.

IV. It's cheesy, but next time you are hyped up after a good workout, write it down. When you read over it, you'll get all pumped up about working out again.

2/13/2006 9:59:21 PM

woo son i had a good time at the gym tonight

and the hotties were plentiful
and the january folks finally stopped showing up

2/13/2006 10:05:45 PM

i forgot all the advice given in this thread but ill just throw some things out there

when lifting try not to lift 2 days in a row even if you work different areas. it takes your nervous system over 24 hours to recover from lifting even if you do a different body part your nervous system is still affected.

i like to break it up into 3 days of lifting:

Monday - chest, tri's, shoulders
Wednesday - Quads, Hams, Calves
Friday - Abs, Back, Bi's

if you wanna do cardio do it on the days you arent lifting.

exercising like this helps everything because you get the rest you need for your body to heal. be sure you are eating enough and also try to get 8 hours of sleep and you should see some good results in no time.

2/13/2006 10:18:45 PM

i'm doing this today, G. i must work out. haven't been since friday. i must stop the slacking !!!

2/16/2006 5:47:22 PM

i did it today, G. had to drag myself, but the motivation was seeing the same people still there and in just as good a shape as when I left.

i did 2 exercises for : chest, back, biceps and calves. then I left.

also I saw this awesome chick in there. her body was chisled, but not overly muscular. I think I want to smash a b!tch like that next. soft body b!tches are so 90's, G.

2/16/2006 9:17:03 PM