The 83 team was favored to win the ACC that year I believe. We just sucked becuase Whittenburg went down with an ankle injury. His first game back was the first game in the ACC tournament.

It wasn't as "miracle" as it would seem to be. We weren't supposed to make the tourney that year, but that's only becuase we had lost our starting SG (And arguably best player)

Well, I mean is was a "miracle"...and Houston was the best thing since sliced bread.... but we were a talented team that year when healthy



[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:09 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:03:46 AM

Al Skinner has a very respectable record against Roy motherfucking Williams and can at least contend with Duke.

GET THIS MAN A RED SPORTCOAT.

3/13/2006 12:08:54 AM

Skinner has a zen master aura

State fans will bitch about how "low key" he is whenever we don't get the calls

3/13/2006 12:12:21 AM

and they'll recall that he got blown out at home to a Herb Sendek-coached team

3/13/2006 12:20:07 AM

Quote :

" We've had to postpone our plans to allow readers to append comments to individual articles until we can put additional safeguards in place, and we apologize for the delay. Until we are able to present that feature to you, please visit our existing reader forums feature to discuss this or any article."

I wonder if this had anything to do with TWW?

3/13/2006 1:11:12 AM

our fans and our message boards aren't all that different from countless other schools around the nation.

You look at how northern schools repond to poor football seasons and you will see the same shit.........

3/13/2006 7:18:33 AM

Ill stop supporting Herb

when our program stops improving

and if you dont think the program has consistently improved, then youre a fucking joke.

we dont fucking 'deserve' anything. a championship 20 fucking years ago entitles you to jack shit. History entitles you to jack shit. If we are going off of history then we deserve to be NIT hopefulls and to have losing seasons.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 10:03 AM. Reason : *]

3/13/2006 10:00:25 AM

Our program hasn't improved.

No titles.

Not many outstanding wins.

Lots of the same old shit.

3/13/2006 10:02:42 AM

youre a fucking idiot

how can you be that fucking stupid? I mean not just kinda clueless.

but a complete lack of fucking brains.

3/13/2006 10:05:14 AM

TWW makes Herb sad

3/13/2006 10:06:43 AM

Quote :

"youre a fucking idiot how can you be that fucking stupid? I mean not just kinda clueless. but a complete lack of fucking brains."

3/13/2006 10:08:57 AM

the school ran norm sloan off and he won us a championship

3/13/2006 10:10:52 AM

No not at all.

Over the last 4 years we've made the sweet 16 once being one and out or two and out the other three times.

To maintain momentum, we have to make the sweet 16 again this year. A tough task considering who we have to beat to get there.

To mark improvement, we have to make the elite 8, an even tougher task.

So what exactly do see "improved" in our program?

We play better then we did over a decade ago?

3/13/2006 10:22:41 AM

The school didn't run Norm Sloan off.

3/13/2006 10:48:45 AM

well lets see

I see the fact that we have winning seasons with herb, whos numbers have increased since he has been here an improvement.

I see the last HALF of his tenure here keeping us in the NCAAs consistently as an improvement

I see his recruiting classes bringing in better and better talent year after year an improvement.

btw 'consistently improve' doesnt mean you make it farther in the NCAA tournament than you did the previous year one after the other. Thats just not how college basketball works and the fact that you think this way just shows just how little knowledge you have about the sport.

Consistent improvement means you dont take a step back, and you keep taking positive steps (recruiting, seeding, record, depth into tournament)

If over the next couple years we fail to get out of the first round of the tournament and fall back to being a bubble team, then you can come to me about herb not taking the program anywhere

untill then you should probably leave this section because you know jack shit on the topic you're trolling.

3/13/2006 10:51:14 AM

Improving means fixing fundamental errors that have plagued your teams for the last decade


Kind like rebounding, handling pressure, end of game situations, consistency, finding a way to score....anything...ANYTHING... aside from shooting an ungodly amount of 3's when you're already 0 for eleventy in the game, refusing to play anything but man-to-man defense despite teh fact that your players are way too slow and consistently get beat off of the dribble leading to Simmons picking up 4 cheap fouls in the first 2:00 of the game....etc.


We haven't done any of the above. If I thought it was lack of personnel or that we are at least attempting to fix these problems, then I'd shut up. I see no signs.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 10:54:42 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "Do we consider the '83 championship just a miracle" that's what I consider it a lucky run at the right time by a team full of cheaters and idiots "

No, it was a lucky end of season run by a group of good players, a few of whom happened to be idiots. That wasnt the team that cheated. Now a few years later....well that was a different story. The 83 team was actually pretty clean though.

3/13/2006 10:57:03 AM

to improve, i say do 2 out of the following 3

1. better regular season than than previous year (if around 20 wins, definitely win more than the 3 year moving average)

2. further in the NCAA than the previous year (NC not withstanding)

3. conference championship

if you measure it, you know it. you can "fix mistakes" or whatever, just get those results

if Herb crumbles in the tourney, i'll turn on him. but i don't want to hear shit until then.

3/13/2006 11:00:40 AM

Exactly packbacker.

Quote :

" well lets see I see the fact that we have winning seasons with herb, whos numbers have increased since he has been here an improvement. I see the last HALF of his tenure here keeping us in the NCAAs consistently as an improvement I see his recruiting classes bringing in better and better talent year after year an improvement. "

10 years.
0 Titles.
1 ACC finish above 4th place.

Quote :

" btw 'consistently improve' doesnt mean you make it farther in the NCAA tournament than you did the previous year one after the other. Thats just not how college basketball works and the fact that you think this way just shows just how little knowledge you have about the sport. Consistent improvement means you dont take a step back, and you keep taking positive steps (recruiting, seeding, record, depth into tournament) "

You just contradicted yourself by saying 'consistently improve' doesnt mean you make it farther in the NCAA tournament than you did the previous year one after the other' and Consistent improvement means...recruiting, seeding, record, depth into tournament.

How can I even argue my viewpoint if your own points of reference for improvement vary?

Quote :

" If over the next couple years we fail to get out of the first round of the tournament and fall back to being a bubble team, then you can come to me about herb not taking the program anywhere "

Well Friday will be a good test. Our seeding this year is pretty bad and we most likely won't make it out of this weekend.

3/13/2006 11:13:00 AM

^we had the exact same seeding last year...yall give up on the team too easily

3/13/2006 11:14:06 AM

48 teams will "most likely not make it out of this weekend"


[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 11:17:08 AM

Quote :

"we had the exact same seeding last year...yall give up on the team too easily"

but htis isn't last year. last year, the team had won a game within 3 weeks.

3/13/2006 11:17:27 AM

But last year we were on a hot streak closing the year. The team was healthy, for the most part, and pretty determined.

If we're pissed come friday and pound Cal, and beat Texas, then I'd say we'd make it farther then the S16. However, our team doesn't sound pissed. At all.

3/13/2006 11:18:11 AM

Shit, we weren't healthy last year. Bethel never recovered from that groin injury in the ACCT, and Watkins was hurt (although how much of a loss that was is debatable).

3/13/2006 11:20:44 AM

maybe we will light up the scoreboard this weekend

3/13/2006 11:25:20 AM

last 5 years by seed:
2006 - 10 seed
2005 - 10 seed
2004 - 3 seed
2003 - 8 seed
2002 - 7 seed

seems like every year we barely sneak in with the exception of 2004. And over the last few years, herb has actually degressed if you take out the one great year that Josh Powell went off.

almost every single year he does one little thing to save his ass
2006 - The great start and top 15 ranking for the first 2/3rds of the year
2005 - Pulled the NCAA Tourney out the ass, and riding our leader to the sweet 16
2004 - Good year, still 0-2 vs. UNC
2003 - Barely made it in, mainly because of makin it to the acc finals
2002 - First time back in tourney

Now granted after going 11 years without goin to the ncaa tourney, five in a row is great. But every year besides 2004 and this year we are on the bubble and have to play great at the ACC tourney to even go in. Now that IS mediocrity. It just seems like weve reached this plateau, just when you think you have eclipsed it, you go right back down to it. I thought at the middle of this year that Herb had finally eclipsed that plateau. After this collapse i am starting to wonder if we will ever eclipse it, or if we will continue to be a bubble team until we part ways.

3/13/2006 11:26:01 AM

injuries happen to everyone

refs happen to everyone

those are landscapes coaches are required to navigate

3/13/2006 11:26:06 AM

Quote :

"10 years. 0 Titles. 1 ACC finish above 4th place."

This is why youre an idiot and cant appreciate what the 10 years have done for the program. Why dont you go read up on where the program was at before Herb took over, and what he has done for it since.

You will find consistent improvement. Youre one of the fuckwads that think we're 'due' a championship. We aren't. Herb has had to rebuild a program from less than nothing. Your pussy ass whinning doesnt take that into account.

Quote :

"You just contradicted yourself by saying 'consistently improve' doesnt mean you make it farther in the NCAA tournament than you did the previous year one after the other' and Consistent improvement means...recruiting, seeding, record, depth into tournament. How can I even argue my viewpoint if your own points of reference for improvement vary?"

they dont vary. I am arguing that consistent improvement doesnt only mean getting farther in the NCAA tournament than you did last year. Its a part, but if we go to the sweet 16 again this year, its not better than last year, but you cant fucking argue that the program isnt improving. Two back to back sweet 16 seasons is called an improvement. If we bow out in the second round this year, but then make the elite 8, you cant say that the program isnt consistently improving, because his recruiting, record, and seeding can all improve.

you cant argue your viewpoint because you dont know what the fuck youre talking about and have no point. You imply that the program isnt improved from where it was 10 years ago. This proves that youre an ignorant fuckwad.

Quote :

"Well Friday will be a good test. Our seeding this year is pretty bad and we most likely won't make it out of this weekend."

I agree with this part. I think we will beat Cal, but a defeat of Texas will be a tall order. I have complete faith that both the team and herb are capable, but I am aware that herb has room for improvement and this could cost us a run.

3/13/2006 11:29:03 AM

Quote :

"I thought at the middle of this year that Herb had finally eclipsed that plateau."

I thought so too.

Great record, with some very good early wins, and favored in every game remaining on the schedule. All we had to do was win what we were supposed to win (which we had done), and we'd finish 14-2 in the conference and probably get a 2 seed. On top of that, Chris Wright committed. We were in the best position I'd ever seen.

...and then everything collapsed.

I'm actually starting to believe in the Jimmy V curse.

3/13/2006 11:30:18 AM

we beat Cal and Texas

2 back to back sweet 16 runs

shitty program?

3/13/2006 11:34:47 AM

Quote :

"...and then everything collapsed. "

^IF IF IF IF IF IF

If we beat them, I'll probably shit my pants, and I hope like hell that we beat them.


But it aint happenin'

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 11:35:33 AM

Quote :

"wow thats a depressing article"

Or refreshing, depending on your perspective. It's good when an article accurately depicts the mood of the fanbase. What is depressing is the way our team has been playing the last 4 games.

Quote :

"nc state has some fucking asshole ass fans"

And how about what UNC fans did to Matt Doherty, or the dozens of other examples when poor coaches are ran out of town? Do you not see the difference between supporting the team and program, and the coach? If the coach is horrible, it is in the best interest of the program and team to get rid of the coach and get a new coach.

The everyday state fan has to resort to screaming displeasure at the game and on message boards, because they cannot be heard any other way. These are acts of desperation. The 95% majority of NCS fans who don't like Sendek are ignored by the higher-ups.

Quote :

"god damnit, i really hope he doesn't leave. i really don't know why he'd stay with the way the fans treat him though. you fuckers just wait. you'll miss him when he's gone."

Are you kidding? There will be celebrations.

What will we miss? The Princeton offense? The total lack of player development? The transfers? The piss poor ACC record?

We can do a lot better as far as a coach. We have 2 national titles, one of the best arenas and facilities in the country, are in the ACC, Tobacco Road, etc. We may be 2nd fiddle to UNC and Duke right now, but we're right behind them historically in terms of accomplishments in the ACC. We should expect to at least compete with them in the ACC. And what's Sendek's record against UNC and Duke over the last 10 years? It's pathetic. His ACC regular season winning % is around 45%.

Sendek's had 10 years. It's time for him to go. Enough is enough.

3/13/2006 11:37:14 AM

Quote :

"^IF IF IF IF IF IF If we beat them, I'll probably shit my pants, and I hope like hell that we beat them. But it aint happenin' "

it was a question

which you didnt fucking answer

^ HISTORY MEANS JACK SHIT YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER



[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 11:39 AM. Reason : *]

3/13/2006 11:38:21 AM

Quote :

"we beat Cal and Texas 2 back to back sweet 16 runs shitty program?"

"Shitty" program, absolutely not. We're not one now.

I haven't lost the faith just yet, and if we do recover to beat Cal and Texas then I'll be pretty sure that we're on solid footing.

3/13/2006 11:39:56 AM

Quote :

"48 teams will "most likely not make it out of this weekend""

49 actually

3/13/2006 11:43:40 AM

ahhh where would we be without Lokken?

aka "Grumpy Dwarf" of the Sendek Sunshine Squad!

3/13/2006 11:49:33 AM

and nothing you can do can come close to being a competent argument

because there simply isnt an argument that sendek isnt improving this program

3/13/2006 11:52:12 AM

Quote :

"almost every single year he does one little thing to save his ass "

3/13/2006 11:55:37 AM

Quote :

"The school didn't run Norm Sloan off."

in the exact same sense that if herb took another coaching job this offseason you would claim that we didnt run him off either

3/13/2006 11:55:40 AM

Personally, thats not my arguement.

Its very simple really.

My standards for acheivement are higher than what the program currently is at. Sendek has not proven that he can get us to the level at which I think the program should be. He has had 10 years to prove otherwise.

3/13/2006 11:57:33 AM

yet your argument lacks any knowledge of where sendek has brought the program from

how he has improved it

and how he has stopped improving it

gg.

what your position really is is 'I have no patience, even though a steady rise is slapping me right in the face. I think we are owed everything just because we rocked before i was born'

3/13/2006 12:00:27 PM

Quote :

"This is why youre an idiot and cant appreciate what the 10 years have done for the program. Why dont you go read up on where the program was at before Herb took over, and what he has done for it since. You will find consistent improvement. Youre one of the fuckwads that think we're 'due' a championship. We aren't. Herb has had to rebuild a program from less than nothing. Your pussy ass whinning doesnt take that into account."

You won't find consistent improvement. Herb had 5 years of utter crap records and 5 years of decent, but not outstanding records and not a smooth, linear transition between the two. Our definitions of excellence vary greatly and you don't have to foam at the mouth go off a curse train to point that out.

I'm a 'fuckwad' for wanting my team to be able to at least split with UNC freshmen and not get blown out to the bottom feeding team of the conference? I'm a 'fuckwad' for at least wanting one ACCT title when we've been to the title game how many times under Herb? Ohhhkaaay.

Quote :

" they dont vary. I am arguing that consistent improvement doesnt only mean getting farther in the NCAA tournament than you did last year."

Except thats not what you said at all.

Let me quote you again for reference:

Quote :

"btw 'consistently improve' doesnt mean you make it farther in the NCAA tournament than you did the previous year one after the other. Thats just not how college basketball works and the fact that you think this way just shows just how little knowledge you have about the sport. "

There's a minor difference between your two statements that completely change your argument. I won't try and convince you of anything because any logic I give you is going to fly over your head as your own simple mistake will when you read this.

3/13/2006 12:02:26 PM

^^^who the fuck cares where you think our program should be?

i sure as hell don't. we don't have espn doing our recruiting for us. we don't have the best coach in ncaa history. we never will. get over it.


^yeah you're right. nothing linear about this at all:



[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:05 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:03:05 PM

Right.

And thats what differentiates success from, well, State.

Edit:

omfg.

Do you even KNOW what linear is?

How do you even make it through engineering classes?

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:06 PM. Reason : Jesus.]

3/13/2006 12:05:41 PM

if herb is fired or leaves cause of this shit...i will stop supporting this team

3/13/2006 12:06:42 PM

you dumb fucker. if that's not linear i don't know what the fuck is. you show me one coach that's more linear than that. or are you hoping for a straight fucking horizontal line at 1.000%


get a clue

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:06:54 PM

^gg

3/13/2006 12:09:56 PM

Quote :

"You won't find consistent improvement. Herb had 5 years of utter crap records and 5 years of decent, but not outstanding records and not a smooth, linear transition between the two. Our definitions of excellence vary greatly and you don't have to foam at the mouth go off a curse train to point that out. I'm a 'fuckwad' for wanting my team to be able to at least split with UNC freshmen and not get blown out to the bottom feeding team of the conference? I'm a 'fuckwad' for at least wanting one ACCT title when we've been to the title game how many times under Herb? Ohhhkaaay."

oh really.

how many NITs were we in before herb?

and yes youre right, there wasnt a linear transition. There was one poor season when he implimented his new system, and then it was NCAAs ever since. It wasnt smooth, it was overnight. and since then, recruiting, national rankings, and NCAA tourney wins have gone up.

I have not once defined greatness, but thanks for making shit up that you feel supports your 'argument'. I have defined consistent improvement, which we have. We arent a great program yet, but im not so stupid as to be blind to the improvement we have had on our way to get there. Is herb the guy to lead us to greatness? Maybe, maybe not. But untill he stops improving, im not going to stop supporting him.

youre not a fuckwad for wanting those things. Youre a fuckwad for not realzing how much closer we are to getting those things with herb than we were without him. Is that spelled out clearly enough?

Quote :

"There's a minor difference between your two statements that completely change your argument. I won't try and convince you of anything because any logic I give you is going to fly over your head as your own simple mistake will when you read this."

It was unclear yes, but my argument doesnt change. My intended implication was that if you dont get as far as you did in the previous year your program is not 'stagnant' or 'un-improving', you have to look at the other aspects of a basketball program.

3/13/2006 12:11:52 PM

^actually the poor season led him to change the offense. the very first year we ran the new O we made the big dance (2002)

Quote :

"youre not a fuckwad for wanting those things. Youre a fuckwad for not realzing how much closer we are to getting those things with herb than we were without him. Is that spelled out clearly enough?"

that was awesome, gg

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:14 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:12:59 PM

I thought he implimented his system in 2001?

3/13/2006 12:14:13 PM