^^ He didn't. YAY SOCCER! Honestly, it's better for him in that situation to pretend he's hurt at least a little so it doesn't look like he flat-out undercut Kahn.

3/22/2006 4:19:51 PM

^^ what are you predicting Italy 6 , US 0

3/22/2006 4:22:23 PM

i really thought they were going to do better than this shit

3/22/2006 4:25:03 PM

disappointment

3/22/2006 4:25:57 PM

OVER RATED

3/22/2006 4:28:54 PM

I was disappointed in our offense. Couldn't hold possession to save our lives. Especially for that 15 minute stretch where we got absolutely blown out. Maybe that'll improve when some of our players return from injury.

3/22/2006 4:55:02 PM

hahah overrated

too bad half of those guys won't be playing in the world cup

3/22/2006 5:50:23 PM

^ yeah no shit

it was basically our b team with a few senior players vs a senior german team.

3/22/2006 6:05:07 PM

uh... senior german team?



this is the same young german team that got ass-raped by the Italians.




US Soccer is overrated. I saw a stat today, in 8 games against the European big 5 (England, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain i think) the US has been outscored 22-3, and is 0 - 8.



Fifth in the world my fucking ass.

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 6:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2006 6:47:54 PM

no one who played today will be anywhere near the world cup

except keller and eddie johnson and MAYBE mastroeni.

the real team will, especially the defense, be much better than this shit today

3/22/2006 6:58:04 PM

Erm, Gibbs and Cherundolo will definitely play, and perhaps Convey.

3/22/2006 7:06:45 PM

gibbs wont be starting, and ill be pissed if Cherundolo makes the team. he blows. convey is alright but he wont be starting either

3/22/2006 7:22:28 PM

i doubt gibbs will even make the roster, klein wont be starting, ching may not make the roster, mastroeni wont start over reyna...etc, etc etc. this was definitely not our A team...this was pretty much Germany's A team(minus Huth), outside of Ballack and Kahn, Germany just doesnt have the big names they once used to

3/22/2006 7:30:58 PM

Gibbs is a role player, but I think he'd be very valuable against Ghana for his physicality. At the same time, I'm sure Gooch can handle the same role, but he has to be rangey at times to use his size.

Steve Cherundolo got dat SPEEEEEED.

3/22/2006 7:34:11 PM

kiljadn, seriously man, who takes those world rankings seriously? Do you think the Czech Republic is correctly #2? How do you feel about Nigeria (11), Denmark (14), Cameroon (15)? Teams that don't even make the World Cup are in the Top 15, but teams that did don't even crack the top 32.. (Serbia and Montenegro, Switzerland, Australia, and Ghana to name a few)

Everybody knows those rankings are flawed and I don't think anybody seriously considers them when they talk about how good a team is. If we're so overrated and everybody considers us #5 in the world, why didn't we get a top seed?


And for the young German team you were referring to that got raped by the Italians, they were without Kahn for that game, who is obviously their leader... and without his brilliant save on Johnson's header, it might have been a different ending. A US team scoring an away goal to tie it up in the second half against Germany might have gained just a tad bit of confidence. Not making excuse for a miserable second half, just a thought.

3/22/2006 8:55:40 PM

.... I don't get what you're saying here.



Yes, the rankings are flawed. I've said that for YEARS.



but otherwise... Germany totally dominated the US, and I doubt having Kahn in would've made that much of a difference in either game. The reason why Klinsmann is catching hell over there is because he's assembled a team of virtually unknown young players who choked against Italy. I doubt if the US had their first teamers the result would've been any different, after watching the game.

I did think initially that the US would win this one comfortably, and not because of their world ranking, but because of how poorly the Germans did against Italy.

3/22/2006 10:58:13 PM

that is the germans first team

3/22/2006 11:16:27 PM

right, that's what I said.

3/22/2006 11:51:07 PM

You doubt the results would've been different if the US had four starters in defense instead of two bubble first teamers and two guys who won't get a sniff at the WC roster?

General consensus on the US's WC defenders is: Cherundolo, Gibbs, Lewis, Onyewu, Bocanegra, Pope, and Hejduk, with Spector/Albright as the eighth.

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 12:40 AM. Reason : h]

3/23/2006 12:39:15 AM

im not sold on our defense though, i saw mistakes today, and i always see mistakes..(agoos' wonder goal last world cup ). i really hope Arena can get a back line that is very strong and can communicate well with each other. GK, MF, and ST are good. just worryin about the defense

3/23/2006 12:42:05 AM

The mistakes were by Berhalter and Conrad, who won't see any action if they even get picked.

3/23/2006 1:22:59 AM

over half of our starting lineup wasnt playing so dont start flaming the us soccer team like herb sendek after one dissapointing game. a lot of the players that played today were playing for a spot on world cup team and thank goodness they probably wont make it

3/23/2006 1:41:02 AM

^ Did you even read the thread?

3/23/2006 2:17:50 AM

haha

3/23/2006 2:22:38 AM

Quote :

"You doubt the results would've been different if the US had four starters in defense instead of two bubble first teamers and two guys who won't get a sniff at the WC roster?"

Yes.


This is Germany we're talking about here, not Honduras.

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 7:24 AM. Reason : .]

3/23/2006 7:24:42 AM

i created the thread and didnt feel like reading the bullshit from people who dont know anything about the us soccer team so i just skipped ahead and wrote something.

3/23/2006 1:36:19 PM

^^ So, then, do you think the Germany game in '02 was a fluke? We don't have any less talent now, and no matter how good this German team is, it'll be hard to rival a team that went to the final. The US was step-for-step with the Germans in that game and got shafted out of a penalty that would've tied it (which I'm sure you know).

3/23/2006 2:13:05 PM

That's stupid to say that we would win comfortably over Germany in Germany in pretty much a must-win game for that team and their coach. The stakes were much higher for them than for us.

And my point about the rankings being flawed is... you said:

Quote :

"Fifth in the world my fucking ass."

I'm pretty sure everybody knows we aren't the 5th best team in the world, therefore, we are not overrated. Just because the FIFA World Rankings have us there, doesn't mean that's where people think of US Soccer. We still have a long way to go to be considered in the top 5 in the world, which is why I think your comment "I did think initially that the US would win this one comfortably" is pretty stupid, regardless of our ranking. This game was in Germany, against the runner-up of the previous World Cup and whatever team shows up on the field for them, nobody can expect the US to comfortably beat them. We have a long way to go to be compared to Italy.

3/23/2006 2:40:09 PM

why do you guys all got your panties in a bunch? it was friendly, germany NEEDED to win, we didnt play our real full team. they won because our defenders gave them the game. seriously just wait to talk shit until we play in the world cup when it matters with all of our players...

3/23/2006 3:15:12 PM

vinylbandit I'm not sure what logic you're using there... that was a different Germany team, and yes, i do think it was a fluke that the US stepped up to compete with them.



aimorris, it's not a fallacy to think that a young Germany team that was beaten by a strong Italy side would lose to a team that I percieved to be stronger at 1-0 or 2-0. Yes, that means I did expect the US to do better than they did. That doesn't mean I have any sort of confidence in them, that just means that I expected the Germans to be extremely shitty, due mainly to their overall youth. Maybe that was a poor expectation, considering how they won in such a resounding manner.

After having WATCHED the game, I think that the same young German side who beat the US "B Team" would have no problems dispatching the US "A Team" in much the same manner.

Also, I think your circular argument of "no one trusts the FIFA rankings so we're not really overrated" holds absolutely no weight.

This is fact: The US is ranked at a level based upon its skill. That level is 5th in the world as determined via the governing body, FIFA.

This is fact: The US does not deserve that ranking, and deserves a lower ranking based on its skill (or lack thereof).

This is fact: A team that is rated at a higher position than one they deserve is commonly considered to be "overrated."


The US is ranked 5th. The US does not have the skill to be ranked 5th. The US is overrated.

3/23/2006 3:58:02 PM

well folks, there it is

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 4:05 PM. Reason : jadn ftw]

3/23/2006 4:05:15 PM

The FIFA rankings are based on results, not skill.

As for my point about '02, this German team is comparable in skill to the '02 team that were runners-up at the World Cup. The '02 American team were robbed of an equalizer against said German team. The '06 American team is comparable in skill to the '02 American team, and as such, if playing to their full potential should be able to compete with the Germans.

I don't wish to undermine the skill of the Germans, but I do think you're underestimating the American first team based on this match, as the team was without two starting backs, both holding midfielders, and both main attacking midfielders. I have no doubt that the team we saw yesterday can't run with the Germans on any day. I also have no doubt that the full first team can.

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 4:15 PM. Reason : d]

3/23/2006 4:06:37 PM

Quote :

"Playing Germany was a mistake Associated Press HAMBURG, Germany -- A day after his team's fiasco against Germany, U.S. coach Bruce Arena blamed himself for scheduling the game. An undermanned American team was overwhelmed by the Germans 4-1 Wednesday night in Dortmund, and Arena didn't offer much encouragement in his assessment. "We had anywhere from two to three first-team players playing, seven, eight, nine players fighting for a roster spot," he said after arriving Thursday in Hamburg, where the United States will be based during the tournament. Because of injuries and club commitments, Landon Donovan, Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Eddie Lewis weren't with the U.S. team. Arena's starting lineup included goalkeeper Kasey Keller, defender Steve Cherundolo and midfielder Pablo Mastroeni -- who all could be World Cup starters -- plus defenders Gregg Berhalter, Cory Gibbs and Jimmy Conrad; midfielder Kerry Zavagnin; and forwards Josh Wolff, Eddie Johnson and Brian Ching. Coming in as reserves were defender Heath Pearce; midfielders Chris Klein and Ben Olsen; and forward Taylor Twellman. "I think there's some disappointment in some players because it was an opportunity for them to try to convince me that they belong on our roster for the World Cup," Arena said. "Most did not have a strong argument; some did." Some of the regular starters weren't available because Wednesday wasn't set aside by FIFA as an international fixture date -- when all clubs must allow players to join national teams. "We've worked real hard to build our team to where it is today, and to not prepare properly to play a game of that magnitude is a mistake, and I accept the full responsibility for that," Arena said. "If I felt that it wasn't the right time for us to play that game, I should have been a little bit strong in saying this is not the right time to play." Keller gave up four goals in the second half and was upset at his team's performance against 22nd-ranked Germany, a soccer power that has struggled of late. "I don't know what some our players thought, that they could just run around, do what they wanted to and Germany's players were just going to roll over and let you do that?" he said. The United States, which has a No. 5 ranking that even it admits is misleading, has four remaining World Cup warmups, all at home and all against relatively weak opponents: No. 45 Jamaica (April 11 at Cary, N.C.), No. 37 Morocco (May 23 at Nashville, Tenn.), No. 70 Venezuela (May 26 at Cleveland) and No. 68 Latvia (May 28 at East Hartford, Conn.). Against Jamaica, the roster is likely to be filled from players in Major League Soccer. Most of the Europe-based group will be available for the final three games. Arena plans to narrow his potential roster to 30-33 following the Jamaica game, then announce his 23-man team about May 1, well before FIFA's May 15 deadline. The Americans leave June 1 for Germany and have first-round games against the Czech Republic, Italy and Ghana. He was not too concerned about the latest injury to Reyna, who separated a shoulder last weekend playing for England's Manchester City. The U.S. captain is expected to be sidelined about a month. "I think Claudio is fairly fit right now," Arena said. "Getting over the broken ankle was big. His ankle now is sound, so that's a positive. I think the shoulder separation is a temporary setback." Arena chose Hamburg last July over Berlin and Munich. He said the northern port city, where the Beatles got their start, will suit his team well leading to the World Cup. "When I stepped off the train in Hamburg, we could sense this was the right city for the American team, an exciting environment," he said. "This is a city that's very similar to cities in the United States, and I just think it's a perfect match. Great restaurants, a lot of entertainment, a lot of things to do, a great hotel, great training facilities. Everything we wanted was here.""

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=362574&cc=5901

MLS players for the game against Jamaica, thats gay.

3/23/2006 4:23:00 PM

Quote :

"why do you guys all got your panties in a bunch? it was friendly, germany NEEDED to win, we didnt play our real full team. they won because our defenders gave them the game. seriously just wait to talk shit until we play in the world cup when it matters with all of our players... "

exactly

3/23/2006 5:06:34 PM

kiljadn, too bad your "facts" are wrong, vinylbandit said it... those rankings are based on results and purely results. This isn't like an AP poll or a Coaches poll where people's opinions get in the way. Of course our results are going to be good because we don't play top level competition all the time and there's why our ranking is so high.

I just don't understand why you hate on US Soccer so much, it's like you want them to lose so you can continue to call them overrated. It's not like we're saying the US is good enough to win the World Cup, but give their A squad a little more credit than that. No way that Germany team walks all over Reyna and Co., not saying we'd win, but damn, what will it take for the US team to gain some sort of respect from you?

3/23/2006 6:25:26 PM

those people criticizing probably dont even understand soccer they just feel like bashing someone other than herb sendek.

3/23/2006 6:50:39 PM

Dude, what?

Results are a directly correlating effect of skill. You want to be technical, then just change the word "skill" for "results" and the facts STILL don't change. The soccer team fielded by the United States in worldwide competition, be it friendly or competitive cup play, is ranked in a high position that is most assuredly undeserved.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore. You said that the US was not overrated because the ranking system is flawed. While I'm in agreement with the ranking system being flawed, I do not believe that the individual results are exempt from being considered flawed as well, especially given that they are a direct result OF the flawed system.

The inarguable fact here is that the ranking system is what it is, so you have to operate under the auspices that it is the final result without debate about the process.

That being said, any rankings given for a set period are not subject to change upon being released.

THAT being said, any ranking erroneously given to a team that projects that team as achieving better results than actually achieved are going to over-value, or over-rate that team's worth.

I don't see what's so hard about that. You're saying that because the system is flawed, the US isn't and can't be overrated, which is wrong.

I'm saying that as a direct result of the ranking system being flawed, the US is overrated, and that since there is no other measure of official ranking, the end result stands as an error in ranking, referred to as "overrated."








ALL OF THAT being said, I hate the US team because it's always been hyped to America as the best thing since sliced bread, but it hasn't been, ever. Through all the years when we had to get guys (shitty ones at that) to change their nationality to join our team, to now when we're farming "talent" from our shitty farm-league (the MLS), I have never liked the US team, and chances are, I never will.

3/23/2006 6:56:52 PM

american soccer has never been hyped, be quiet.

3/23/2006 7:01:20 PM

and you called the MLS a farm league, I can tell you dont know shit about soccer

3/23/2006 7:02:20 PM

Quote :

"Results are a directly correlating effect of skill."

Not in the way they're applied in the FIFA rankings. The US gets just as much credit for beating T&T in the hex as the Czechs do for beating the Dutch in UEFA qualifying. Does that mean the teams are equally skilled? Of course not.

Are the US overrated at #5 in the world according to the FIFA rankings? Absolutely. Does ANYONE take the FIFA rankings seriously? NO.

I understand your point, and it would make sense if anyone actually considered the FIFA rankings to be anything close to accurate. No one does; it might as well not exist. No one who actually follows the sport considers the US the fifth best team in the world, and no one judges them as such or rates their play by that standard.

So yes, the US is overrated by a computer that doesn't know anything about soccer.

As for MLS, many people have recently compared the quality of play to that of the Championship (the old English First Division, the old old Second Division). The style is different, because the English run all the time, but the quality is similar to that found in Serie B, etc.

3/23/2006 7:28:41 PM

^^ hes comparing it to the talent level in europe. (which is true. try and say that the mls can even touch european soccer and i will laugh in your face). however, i disagree that the us team has ever been hyped and made the best thing since sliced bread or whatever.

its also a little ridiculous that kiljadn is taking the fifa ranking that seriously.

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 7:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2006 7:32:56 PM

kiljadn is an idiot. im just going to put that out there

3/23/2006 8:06:54 PM

Quote :

"I hate the US team because it's always been hyped to America as the best thing since sliced bread"

you've got to be fucking kidding me

3/23/2006 8:08:37 PM

he probably doesnt even pay attention to soccer or even know the head coaches name.

3/23/2006 8:10:05 PM

^ohyeah, and you have no idea what you're talking about

i dont personally know kiljadn but i've been around sports talk long enough to know that he's not a dumbass, and he does follow soccer.

so stop.

just stop before he makes you look even more foolish

3/23/2006 8:14:23 PM

MLS has made leaps and bound as far as the skill level of the games since theyve started. It was a joke back then and now they are truly playing like a respectable professional soccer league. The US team has also gotten better in some ways but not as much as i'd have liked, they are still far from the other international leaders,
if i wanted to rank them id put them around #15 to #20 which isnt that bad

3/23/2006 8:17:23 PM

they're not that low...

3/23/2006 8:23:20 PM

teams better than the USA:

argentina, brazil, mexico, england, france, spain, portugal, germany, holland, sweden, czechs, italy, maybe some african teams like senegal nigieria and camaroon. so yeah........

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 8:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2006 8:28:41 PM

mexico...no

and i dont believe theres a single african team better than us, but that might just be me.

3/23/2006 8:30:50 PM

Quote :

"kiljadn is an idiot. im just going to put that out there"

and you suck cock for a living, I'll just put that out there

Quote :

"he probably doesnt even pay attention to soccer or even know the head coaches name."

Bruce Arena. I wake up every Saturday morning at 7AM to watch EPL games. I'm a player/manager of my own indoor team. I spend more time playing soccer than most people spend actually doing work at their jobs on a weekly basis. Do you care to continue?

Quote :

"if i wanted to rank them id put them around #15 to #20 which isnt that bad"

This is one of the smartest things that's been said in the thread.

Quote :

"teams better than the USA: argentina, brazil, mexico, england, france, spain, portugal, germany, holland, sweden, czechs, italy, maybe some african teams like senegal nigieria and camaroon. so yeah........"

This is another smart comment.






Although I don't see how you guys can say that US Soccer has NOT been overhyped to the public. I remember back when the US (then an overrated #17 in the world) played Iran in WC98 and how it was being billed as the second coming of Christ on TV and by all the sports analysts..... and then the US lost and everyone seemed to forget the World Cup was even going on.

In general, I just hate US Soccer. How it's marketed to the general public, how strings are obviously being pulled to increase the market share of the sport here, I could go on for days.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the growth in popularity, I'm just against the slick, shiesty way it's been put over on Americans. Let the game stand for itself, don't try to bring on a bunch of bandwagon fucks (read: not you guys) who are only interested because the US is doing "well."

3/23/2006 9:57:24 PM