if you're born on US soil, you should have citizenship

3/30/2006 1:57:39 PM

That makes perfect sense. If you make a conscious decision to seek to live in the country, then you get denied. If you happen to fall out of a cooter on a patch of dirt on the other side of an imaginary line that separates it from an identical patch of dirt, you're in!

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 1:59 PM. Reason : ]

3/30/2006 1:59:31 PM

hey if any illegal immigrants need help getting legal and need some basic fucking human compassion and whatnot they can hit me up

3/30/2006 2:07:41 PM

It is a matter of principle and common decency. You should always have a right to live in your birthplace - I don't care what your parents did.

Quote :

"hey if any illegal immigrants need help getting legal and need some basic fucking human compassion and whatnot they can hit me up"

i mean, it must be awesome to take the cop-out and enjoy feeling like a do-gooder. too bad society as a whole can't afford to take that luxury. and don't even front like that last statement wasn't an endorsement of pro-illegal-immigration policies.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 2:28 PM. Reason : s]

3/30/2006 2:08:39 PM

yeah but fuck the illegal immigrant parents who want a better life for their kid

make em swim back home

3/30/2006 2:21:46 PM

Quote :

"make em swim back home"

that's life. they shouldn't have cut in line.

3/30/2006 2:24:02 PM

No, they shouldn't have had to stand in a line to begin with.

3/30/2006 3:13:43 PM

ok, that's fine. then lets change the law - but its destructive to society to pass new laws with the express purpose of enabling people to break existing ones that you happen to disagree with.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:18 PM. Reason : s]

3/30/2006 3:17:17 PM

No, it isn't. What's destructive is the unjust laws themselves.

Or would you say that everything leading up to the American Revolution was "destructive to society?"

3/30/2006 3:20:34 PM

I was assuming that you were opposed to sparking a revolution and overthrowing our government

my bad.

that being said, I'll have to thank you for giving an example of just how destructive that type of thing can be to a society.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:48 PM. Reason : s]

3/30/2006 3:47:00 PM

Let's just swing open the fuckin' doors and let everybody in! We don't need to be scared of terrorists! Hell, while we're at it, let's let all the criminals free. Laws mean nothing! Death Row inmates, you can have weapons. It's just not right that you have to spend your life doing things by law. Fuck it!

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/30/2006 3:56:39 PM

The law cannot be enforced when everyone is an offender.

3/30/2006 4:00:22 PM

yeah

11 million is a big number

3/30/2006 4:01:43 PM

Quote :

"The law cannot be enforced when everyone is an offender."

and then the proper course of action is to change the law.

3/30/2006 4:20:30 PM

i got a better one

DO NOTHING

why is this even a fucking issue

oh wait, that's right

it's election season

3/30/2006 4:22:21 PM

It's an issue because not just harmless little hispanics looking for jobs are crossing our border. There are members of MS13, which has been tied to Osama's group of upstanding individuals. There are terrorists crossing that border day in and day out. The border has to be secured. I don't feel like losing more friends.

3/30/2006 4:43:06 PM

ok, you see, you're fuzzing up the issue, which blows

MS-13, through a quick google search, shows that they're a gang

so... a gang doing illegal shit

wow, that's a great reason to militarize our border

3/30/2006 4:46:30 PM

We need to do the following

A) Create policies that will improve the economies of mexico et al.

and either

B) Crack down on employers who employ illegals

or

C) Legalize everything (cause thats what you fools are pushing for in a roundabout way)

3/30/2006 4:52:04 PM

Hell, let's legalize murder....

3/30/2006 4:56:31 PM

^
that would drive down the price of assassins which would put an end to the black market, with unions the assassins could get better treatment, and it would generate tax revenue.


Without taxes we’d save tons on paperwork and staffing bureaucracies. And tax evasion is a gateway crime anyways.
V

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2006 5:01:13 PM

Let's legalize tax-evasion, and insurance fraud.

3/30/2006 5:13:53 PM

^Difference: There is an obvious wrong entailed in killing or stealing from somebody, whereas there is no obvious wrong in moving across the border.

Quote :

"Let's just swing open the fuckin' doors and let everybody in! We don't need to be scared of terrorists!"

Nobody here has claimed that we shouldn't screen immigrants for connections to organized crime or terrorism. Obviously that would have to be done. But if we check you out and your clean, there is -zero- justification for not letting you in.

Quote :

"and then the proper course of action is to change the law."

Yes, that is the best course of action. And I'll keep working at that. But I'm not just going to say, "Lo siento, muchachos," and twiddle my thumbs while I wait.

Quote :

"Legalize everything (cause thats what you fools are pushing for in a roundabout way)"

If you mean "legalize all immigration," then yes. If you mean what you said literally, then you're a toolbox.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 5:45 PM. Reason : ]

3/30/2006 5:44:25 PM

we should screen every mexican...just like we screed atta
OH WAIT.

the war on terror is unrelated to immigration.

3/30/2006 6:17:50 PM

^sure, because all the 9-11 terrorists were US natives...

Irrelevant to this discussion as they were legal immigrants, but come on, certainly a large portion of why some people are upset about the current situation is the obvious hole in our defenses at the southern border. Personally, I feel more or less like Grumpy, I'm more for open borders. But not wide open, we should at least know who is in the country and what they are doing if they are immigrants. Everybody's all hysterical about a port, but then the whole southern border is a non-issue for security? WHATEVER...

3/30/2006 7:28:12 PM

One group of terrorists was foreign!

Terrorism is an immigration issue!

Nine out of ten McVeighs agree!

3/30/2006 7:38:07 PM

Quote :

"One group of terrorists was foreign! Terrorism is an immigration issue! Nine out of ten McVeighs agree!"

i laughed

3/30/2006 9:13:27 PM

Quote :

"If you mean "legalize all immigration," then yes. If you mean what you said literally, then you're a toolbox. "

this thread is about immigration. that's obviously what I was referring to

3/30/2006 9:46:25 PM

Then I'm curious as to how we were in any way being "roundabout."

3/31/2006 3:13:42 AM

you're the first one to use the word, "roundabout"... I'm not sure how that relates to what I said. If you're wondering why I think you're fools for wanting to move to a virtually open-border policy, then read this editorial by Peggy Noonan:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110008158

As with any system, change must be made deliberately and at the proper rate to allow everything to adjust around the change. You guys talk so much about reality - well, you yourselves might want to face the reality that changing the demographics/culture of a nation by 100% or more within a decade or less is not going to take us to any sort of a happy place.

[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 10:15 AM. Reason : s]

3/31/2006 10:14:10 AM

Quote :

"you're the first one to use the word, "roundabout""

O rly?

Quote :

"Excoriator:C) Legalize everything (cause thats what you fools are pushing for in a roundabout way)"

3/31/2006 1:00:35 PM

sry did a search for roundabout but didn't see it on the page except for your post - my search origin must have been set to later in the page.

Yes, so what I meant by roundabout was that you're not actually pushing for legalization - you know you can't win that, so instead you're pushing for new laws that make it easier for people to break those existing laws with which you disagree


[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 1:59 PM. Reason : s]

3/31/2006 1:57:41 PM

It must suck to fail so consistently at trolling.

3/31/2006 2:37:31 PM

Quote :

"you're not actually pushing for legalization"

I am, rabidly. But it's not the only direction in which I'll push.

Quote :

"so instead you're pushing for new laws that make it easier for people to break those existing laws with which you disagree"

Pretty much. If I can't kill the bad guy outright, I have to go in and injure him as many times as it takes before he can't move anymore.

3/31/2006 3:54:03 PM

Well there's a difference between passing incremental legislation towards an ultimate goal (like the anti-abortion strategy) and passing legislation that enables people to break laws.

the incremental approach is fine, but the subversive strategy can do nothing but harm a society. you yourself admitted as such by invoking the pre-revolutionary war example.

[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 3:58 PM. Reason : s]

3/31/2006 3:58:47 PM

No, for me to have done that would entail my admitting that the Revolutionary War was destructive to society.

It ain't always going to be a walk through the rose garden. There will be periods of upheaval and unpleasantness to various degrees.

Not that I really acknowledge this difference you propose exists anyway. We're making immigration law more impotent through either method, and that is, as you say, my "ultimate goal."

[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 4:44 PM. Reason : ]

3/31/2006 4:44:46 PM

Quote :

"No, for me to have done that would entail my admitting that the Revolutionary War was destructive to society"

you don't have to admit it. its a fact: the revolutionary war destroyed that particular society and instituted a new one in its place.

Like I said before, I was assuming that you were opposed to sparking a revolution and overthrowing our government

my bad.

3/31/2006 4:57:37 PM

Quote :

"you don't have to admit it. its a fact: the revolutionary war destroyed that particular society and instituted a new one in its place. Like I said before, I was assuming that you were opposed to sparking a revolution and overthrowing our government my bad."

do you also email the queen of england before every post to make sure she agrees with you? or do you just generally spend most of your life with your head up your ass

3/31/2006 5:40:16 PM

im not sure how i feel about this subject.

3/31/2006 8:10:00 PM

Quote :

"the revolutionary war destroyed that particular society and instituted a new one in its place."

The society was not destroyed, its destructive elements were.

3/31/2006 10:30:09 PM

Quote :

"But if we check you out and your clean, there is -zero- justification for not letting you in."

soooo, what do we do with those that just ignore getting "checked out?" at some point there will be a line of "legality" and "illegality..."

4/1/2006 1:05:50 AM

http://mediamatters.org/items/200603310008

Quote :

""Burn the Mexican Flag!""

4/1/2006 4:03:36 AM

Quote :

"http://mediamatters.org/items/200603310008"

all i heard was loud yelling in arabic with a couple of "death to americas" im so confused

4/1/2006 2:21:26 PM

Quote :

"soooo, what do we do with those that just ignore getting "checked out?" at some point there will be a line of "legality" and "illegality...""

Sure. The solution is simple: once we make it so easy to get into the country for clean people, only guilty ones will have any motivation at all to sneak past those methods (and thus, across the border). Meaning then you can shoot/arrest/ruthlessly chase down literally everyone sneaking across the border, because their doing so can only mean bad intent.

4/1/2006 5:03:34 PM