Quote :

"Sign the notice explaining that, until you are a citizen, you cannot use any federal or state social service or welfare, except public education. "

I'm not sure that this is altogether reasonable. Injuries are inevitable, especially so in a population so overwhelmingly employed in physical labor. If you get hurt and can't get proper treatment, then your health deteriorates more than it has any business doing and you can't work anymore. Once you can't work, you can't contribute anything, no matter how meager, to society.

There's also the disease factor to consider. A large population with minimal health care and a relatively low standard of living is just screaming "disease vector."

I could possibly see something where one was screened for certain pre-existing conditions, and help for those was denied.

4/5/2006 1:04:44 PM

Quote :

"3) Sign the notice explaining that, until you are a citizen, you cannot use any federal or state social service or welfare, except public education."

i don't really care if they use other federal services too, as long as they're paying all of the taxes.

although I'm inclined to support stricter than normal restrictions for non-citizens on stuff like welfare/other "above and beyond" gov't assistance. If they need it temporarily b/c they aren't firmly established here, yet, ok, but if you aren't going to get your shit straight, it's time to go back home.

4/5/2006 1:07:05 PM

And I will absolutely guarantee that the borders will be easier to patrol against real criminals and terrorists sneaking in when the background noise of millions of peaceful and non-threatening people are removed from the picture and routed through legal border crossings.

– Warren Meyer

[Edited on April 6, 2006 at 11:40 AM. Reason : .,.]

4/6/2006 11:39:57 AM

Quote :

"Immigration Bill Stalls in Senate Republicans Insist on Amending Measure A Senate compromise on a major overhaul of the nation's immigration laws hit a roadblock today, as the majority Republicans insisted on being allowed to amend the measure and balked at cutting off debate on it. Most Senate Democrats had resisted efforts to amend the compromise bill, fearing that GOP opponents of provisions to legalize the status of millions of illegal immigrants would push through fundamental changes. The Senate voted 60 to 38 this morning against invoking cloture on the compromise measure, effectively stalling it instead of sending it to the floor as is for a vote. Supporters of the bill fell far short of the 60 votes needed to cut off debate and move it to the floor. Republicans stuck together in defeating the cloture motion and were joined by six Democrats. The setback came a day after a bipartisan group of senators announced a "breakthrough" on contentious immigration legislation, stemming from a compromise put forward by Republican Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mel Martinez of Florida. Their measure created a tiered approach to the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, dividing them into three categories: long-term, mid-term and short-term. Those who had lived in the United States at least five years would be offered legal status; those here less than five years but more than two would be eligible for a temporary worker program and those here less than two years would have to return home to apply for temporary work visas. The bill was offered as a compromise between Republican proposals to crack down on illegal border-crossings and a bill crafted by Sens. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) that would have offered amnesty to practically all 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. After the vote on the compromise bill, an alternative introduced by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) was also shelved, as senators voted 62 to 36 against cloture on his measure. Frist's bill, aimed at tightening border security, did not include provisions allowing illegal immigrants to stay and called for heavy fines on employers who hired them. Kennedy and McCain expressed disappointment today that the compromise appeared to have fallen apart. "All of us understand that this is a complex, difficult issue," Kennedy said in a joint news briefing with McCain. "There's always the opportunity to try and sidetrack a purposeful, meaningful, comprehensive approach." Kennedy added: "I'm concerned about the lost opportunity, but absolutely determined to keep on fighting. . . . We don't intend to give up, and we don't intend to give in." Republicans and Democrats blamed each other for the impasse. Some GOP senators insisted that they be able to offer amendments, while Democrats led by Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) argued that the core of the fragile compromise would be gutted by changes. The White House today zeroed in on Reid. "Unfortunately, the Senate minority leader prevented voices from being heard and amendments from being considered," presidential spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters, reading from a prepared statement. "He is preventing comprehensive immigration reform from moving forward. We call on the Senate minority leader to stop blocking this process from moving forward so that we can get comprehensive immigration reform passed." Reid charged that Republican opponents of the compromise had been planning to "kill it by amendment." He said that "the amendments were being offered by people who didn't want the bill." Frist told reporters after the cloture votes that the Democratic leadership had created a "huge problem" by refusing to countenance all but three of the more than 400 amendments that had been filed on the compromise bill. He said this was "a travesty, because that ultimately brought down very good policy." Although the Senate will now adjourn for two weeks, Frist said, "we have a very good, solid proposal on the table" that can be taken up after the break. He said the measure "does deserve debate and some amendment to it." Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Tex.), who had come out against the Hagel-Martinez compromise, said on the Senate floor that negotiations among Republicans last night "got down to allowing 20 amendments." But she said Democrats refused to go along. "I think we've missed an opportunity," Hutchison said. "I hope very much that as we go home for our two-week break that we will think about how we can come together, come back here and not give up on having an immigration reform bill" that secures U.S. borders and creates a guest-worker program. "I hope that the minority will work with the majority not to block future amendments that would make this a better bill." Earlier today, President Bush had urged lawmakers to keeping working toward an agreement. "An immigration system that forces people into the shadows of our society, or leaves them prey to criminals, is a system that needs to be changed," Bush said this morning at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast in Washington. "I'm confident that we can . . . change our immigration system in ways that secures our border, respects the rule of law, and, as importantly, upholds the decency of our country. As the Congress continues this debate, its members must remember we are a nation of immigrants. And immigration has helped restore our soul on a regular basis." Bush has promoted a guest-worker program as a way to legalize the status of many illegal immigrants, but his approach has run into stiff opposition in the House, which has passed a bill that cracks down on the undocumented population and does not include a guest-worker provision. The Republican-crafted House bill, which would criminalize illegal immigrants and punish those who assist them, has sparked large protest demonstrations in major cities across the nation, notably Los Angeles. Even if the Senate compromise had succeeded, it would have faced a major hurdle in efforts to reconcile it with the House bill."

4/7/2006 2:46:44 PM

Why did you lock the other thread? It wasn't hurting anyone.

4/13/2006 9:30:47 PM

Quote :

"3) Sign the notice explaining that, until you are a citizen, you cannot use any federal or state social service or welfare, except public education. "

What about permanent residents? They're just like citizens, except they can't vote.

4/13/2006 9:38:20 PM

heres my idea....CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDERS.

4/14/2006 1:58:32 AM

your idea sucks

4/14/2006 2:25:48 AM

i'm curious as to what happens when these 13 million people making 3 bux an hour are granted citizenship. then they demand minimum wage. what is that going to do to our economy? I mean, an extra 78 million bux an hour aint gonna pose a problem for our economy, is it? Not to mention the payroll taxes, and the health insurance you know they are going to demand. let see, oh, and then when we figure how many of them will still be "under the poverty line," I can imagine how much of a hit that will put on our treasury as well, dubya's "illegal war" notwithstanding...

4/14/2006 2:26:49 AM

yeah im sorry, that is a dumb idea. i mean why should a sovereign nation close and protect its borders from illegal immigrants, terrorists, drug dealers and gang bangers. thats such a dumb idea, but i got another one, why dont you shut your hippy ass up and move to canada.

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 2:44 AM. Reason : .]

4/14/2006 2:36:50 AM

oh but i couldnt move to canada, becuse the borders would be shut down genius

4/14/2006 2:48:22 AM

Where's this veritable horde of gang members sneaking across the border? You've heard a couple of stories about Mexicans forming gangs and you've written off the lot of them as barbarians.

Where are any of the illegal Mexican immigrant terrorists? Where is one illegal who's blown shit up who wouldn't have been caught by a reasonable background check?

4/14/2006 3:14:43 AM

There is a heightened gang awareness in the DC metro area. Its not all gang bangers sneaking over tho. they recruit other illegals and hispanic citizens. It doesnt warrant closing he borders and "protecting" america

4/14/2006 3:17:16 AM

the canadian border is where the crime crosses

4/14/2006 3:21:04 AM

grumpy, you still haven;t answered my 78 million bux an hour question

4/14/2006 3:57:31 AM

I wasn't aware that you were talking to me, since I haven't posted in this thread in a while and you didn't specify.

But, in answer to your question, how about this:

How about we should start valuing human lives and decency more than we do corporate dollars? Or, actually, maybe you should start doing that, since most of us still have some vestiges of a soul.

Or how about the fact that none of the things you say illegals are going to "demand" are more than what we offer to people anyway? It seems to me like you think "demanding" equal treatment is unfair.

Or how about the fact that the $78 million figure is ridiculous in that it doesn't take into account the fact that it is distributed over many, many companies, all of whom are currently committing crimes both in paying less than the minimum wage and in paying it to illegals?

How about the fact that non-illegal citizens actually pay taxes into the system, as opposed to illegal ones, thus mitigating if not completely eliminating the threat you seem to think that naturalizing them would pose to our treasury?

How about the studies that show that immigrants of any kind pay more into the system in the long run than they take out?

How about the fucking concept of liberty and freedom?

4/14/2006 6:24:41 AM

how the fuck did this issue even come up? you can always tell a country is going through bad times when it goes on a xenophobic streak

4/14/2006 6:34:16 AM

soooooo, in other words, I am completely right that it will wreck our economy, and you'd rather play the bleeding heart card. ironic.

no matter how you play it, there will always be "illegal aliens" and thats just how it is. at some point you will have to put your foot down and take a stand. it sounds great to say "have some compassion for people," but I have very little compassion for someone who can't follow the most basic of laws and who just fucking assumes that they can come in and take something.

4/14/2006 6:14:43 PM

which most basic of laws?

what is more basic then being free to choose where you will work to provide for your family. they arent stealing anything.

4/14/2006 6:25:41 PM

aren't "stealing anything?" how about jobs. how about the free health care they get. how about free lawyers to argue for them in court? how about free fucking everything.

look, where I come from you knock before you come in and you get permission to come in. thats pretty fucking basic and simple. the only reason democrats want the mexicans in is because they want the votes. the only reason grumpy wants them in is because he wants to pay them 2 bux an hour and make a killing off of his widgets.

no one really gives two shits about mexicans. if they did they'd be arguing that we drop the fucking 82nd airborne in mexico city and tell those fuckers to straighten up their fucked up government so that it doesn't have all of these people in poverty.

4/14/2006 6:35:30 PM

are you honestly that dumb?

4/14/2006 8:11:35 PM

he did spell "bucks" with an x...

4/14/2006 8:17:54 PM

snappy comeback. too bad you didn't actually address anything I said.

4/14/2006 8:19:04 PM

if you were smart enough to read the other threads on the front page i would not need to.

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 8:44 PM. Reason : clarified butter]

4/14/2006 8:44:02 PM

well, dear, point me a link that shows that 78mill an HOUR wouldn't cripple our economy.

4/14/2006 9:20:41 PM

well dumbass.
stop pulling numbers out of your ass and calling things ironic that arent even a coincidence and we will have an adult conversation.

until then...

4/14/2006 9:39:30 PM

actually, if you had a fucking brain you'd realize why calling Grumpy a "bleeding heart" is ironic. let me spell it out for you:

"bleeding heart" is a term usually a term reserved for liberals. Grumpy is a conservative. Hence, grumpy being a "bleeding heart" on an issue would be ironic.

THe numbers I pulled may have been "out of my ass," but I'm pretty sure they are realistic and accurate. Take 13 million people. hehe, i multiplied by six, like an idiot, but multiply it by 3, thats 39 million an hour. Of course, if companies are only paying the migrants a buck an hour, then multiplying it by six is a realistic figure as well.

the point is the same. Companies can't afford to pay immigrants minimum wage. The moment they are forced to do so (AKA, the moment we legalize every last one of them), our economy = fucked. If companies could afford to pay them minimum wage, then they would hire legal american workers instead and not risk the lawsuits and court problems. But of course, they know that no one cares about a couple of spics makin 2 bucks an hour, so they keep paying them.

and no, grumpy, don't be jesse jackson and play the "racist" card either. I said "spics" cause thats what the company thinks of them. they think of them as worthless nothings who work hard for no pay. if YOU cared about mexicans, you'd be pushing for the 82nd to be redeployed to mexico. but you don't. you just want to sound good for the public while making money off of hard-working people.

4/15/2006 12:23:38 AM

if a company cant compete in the marketplace by following the law it shouldnt exist at all. i feel no sympathy for any racist piece of shit who only pays his workers 3 dollars an hour because they are spics.
but for your math, you should try doing the full calculation. if 12 million people are making 3 dollars an hour (assuming full employment, which does not happen) then companies are already paying that cost. go refigure your "costs" with some accuracy. for instance, you could figure out how much of that 5.15 an hour minimum wage the now non-illegals would actually take home, and then you could look at how much money would be paid into social security by having these companies follow the law.

as for your obsession with the 82nd airborne....what would invading mexico do to help them or help us solve this problem?

4/15/2006 12:54:03 AM

hahaha. if they can't "follow the law" they should fold... but illegals can't follow the law... oh, and what happens when EVER FUCKING COMPANY FOLDS, dipshit. it won't be one or two. it'll be a lot, since so many are counting on this cheap labor.

its great to look at it one company at a time. if only it were one company.

and having them pay into social security is gonna help us out? that's a riot. social security is already fucking busted. what good is putting more people into it who are going to take out more than they put in going to do?

btw, read the post where I first mention the 82nd to understand why I said it. namely, tell those fuckers to fix the shit that is wrong with their country instead of exporting it to the US and turning the US into the same shithole. mexicans aren't shitty, but their government sure as hell is

4/15/2006 2:11:55 AM

Quote :

"it'll be a lot, since so many are counting on this cheap labor."

Then wall-street will make a lot of money recycling the capital from these unproductive businesses to newly productive businesses.

4/15/2006 10:10:35 AM

when is social security going to collapse, since its so "busted right now" ?
20 years ago they said it would be dead by now.
the average prediction (which oh by the way expecting a 50 year prediction on this to be accurate is idiotic) says it will be perfectly fine until i retire, at which point they will be able to offer 75% of benefits. having more people pay into it would push that date even farther back, as would changing the maximum amount that can be taxed. if you knew anything, you would know that illegal workers (and i believe non illegal immigrants too) pay into the system and get nothing out. THEREFORE, having them pay more money into the system would be good for me.

4/15/2006 11:17:22 AM

wow. bad logic if I ever heard it. you suggested that legalized workers paying into the system would make it last longer. now you are telling me that illegal workers will make it last longer. take your pick, man. I blasted you on the former, so you turned to the latter. good work.

in other words, you are happy to sap them for their money and give them nothing back, as long as you get your shit happily. and btw, if you really think that "75% benefits" isn't a sign of the system being busted, then you are in for one hell of a surprise. the only reason its lasted this long is that the libbies keep tweaking it to steal more from those who have earned it so they can give it to those who haven't.

the entire premise of SS has proven untenable, and the fact that you are counting on "75% benefits" proves it. you are just too fucking stupid to realize that.

4/15/2006 12:56:07 PM

answer my question

Quote :

"when is social security going to collapse, since its so "busted right now" ?"

as for my "bad logic"
how is saying that more people paying into the system would cause it to last longer contradictory? the only effect that a persons status (legal immigrant vs illegal vs full citizen) has is whether or not they will be getting benefits when they retire.

Quote :

" in other words, you are happy to sap them for their money and give them nothing back, as long as you get your shit happily. "

no, i said that under the current rules of how benefits are paid out it would be good for me for them to pay in, since they are legally unable to get benefits. i did not say this was a good thing for our country. i simply said that it would benefit me.

Quote :

"the only reason its lasted this long is that the libbies keep tweaking it to steal more from those who have earned it so they can give it to those who haven't."

do you have any idea how the system work? at all? here is a hint, your social security check changes with the amount you have paid in. its probably the least "socialist" of any of our government services.

Quote :

"the entire premise of SS has proven untenable, and the fact that you are counting on "75% benefits" proves it."

HOW HAS IT PROVEN UNTENABLE! just because you dont like does not mean it is broken. the part i left out in my earlier post, is that the average estimate has consistently been wrong, with the optimistic estimate being correct. the optomistic estimate says the system will still be taking in more money than it gives out until i am dead. so since im so "fucking stupid" why dont you back up your "proven untenable" with some real numbers.

4/15/2006 1:11:37 PM

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604140009

O'Reilly claimed to have exposed the "hidden agenda" behind the immigrant rights movement: "the browning of America"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604140011

Savage called alleged Duke rape victim a "dirty, verminous black stripper"; described illegal immigrants as "brown supremacists

4/15/2006 2:56:28 PM

I saw that O'reilly segment and it was OBVIOUS at the end of the interview what Barron's intentions were. His arguement was compairing todays immigration with the immigration of the mid 1800s when Eurpean Immigrants migrated to America. He said that it was all about race why the whites were allowed to come and others were not and that when the whites got to America they were greeted nicely. Apparently, he dosent understand the historical context to which he refered. Anyway, since you didnt see the interview, look into it further and get off the liberal sites, they tend to ruin your thinking.

4/15/2006 9:17:11 PM

ok. so they are both idiots. point?

4/15/2006 10:15:36 PM

Quote :

"soooooo, in other words, I am completely right that it will wreck our economy"

How did you garner that from my post? If I may refer you to these parts, which you appear to have missed:

Quote :

"Or how about the fact that the $78 million figure is ridiculous in that it doesn't take into account the fact that it is distributed over many, many companies, all of whom are currently committing crimes both in paying less than the minimum wage and in paying it to illegals? How about the fact that non-illegal citizens actually pay taxes into the system, as opposed to illegal ones, thus mitigating if not completely eliminating the threat you seem to think that naturalizing them would pose to our treasury? How about the studies that show that immigrants of any kind pay more into the system in the long run than they take out?"

Add to that the fact that even your revised $39 million figure is grossly inflated because not every illegal is of working age, and of those that are, not all of them are getting paid less than the minimum wage, and, on top of that, the minimum wage in this country isn't $6. Take all that into consideration and you're quite possibly talking about an economic fluctuation more minor than the ones that Greenspan having indigestion might have caused.

To say nothing of the fact, once again, that the people of this country agree that any job should have a certain minimum wage, regardless of whether or not the person performing it is a Mexican.

Quote :

"I have very little compassion for someone who can't follow the most basic of laws and who just fucking assumes that they can come in and take something. "

Ah, I see, just like I have absolutely no respect for someone who rabidly defends unjust laws and attacks those with the courage to violate them.

Breaking unjust laws, no matter how "basic," is a just action.

Quote :

"aren't "stealing anything?" how about jobs. how about the free health care they get. how about free lawyers to argue for them in court? how about free fucking everything."

How about the fact that, by definition, nothing free can be stolen?

Quote :

"the only reason grumpy wants them in is because he wants to pay them 2 bux an hour and make a killing off of his widgets."

You seem to have missed the part where I was advocating paying immigrants at least the current minimum wage, dipshit. Or how about the part where I think it's just wrong to arbitrarily hand out rights based on what plot of dirt you hit when you fell out of your mom's vagina?

But hey, you're mind-reading skills, boy, fucking impressive.

Quote :

"if they did they'd be arguing that we drop the fucking 82nd airborne in mexico city and tell those fuckers to straighten up their fucked up government so that it doesn't have all of these people in poverty."

You're right, that would be the most sensible course of action to help Mexico and Mexicans. Also, all illegal immigrants are Mexican.

Quote :

"you just want to sound good for the public while making money off of hard-working people."

So I own a fucking factory now?

Goddamn, you are my new candidate for Worst Poster Ever.

Quote :

"Companies can't afford to pay immigrants minimum wage."

Evidence for this being the case, rather than it simply being the case that companies are motivated to maximize profit?

Quote :

"namely, tell those fuckers to fix the shit that is wrong with their country instead of exporting it to the US and turning the US into the same shithole."

Yes, I remember just the other day when I drove through a part of the United States that resembled a Mexican slum. And the day after that when I had to bribe a policeman to get out of a routine ticket, or when my brother was kidnapped...oh wait, no, I don't remember any of those things, because they haven't happened at all.

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 12:05 AM. Reason : ]

4/16/2006 12:04:58 AM

Quote :

"aren't "stealing anything?" how about jobs."

If you aren't a lazy, chickenshit motherfucker, you won't lose your job.

America is the country of rugged individualism; a place where hard work is supposed to pay off, and where fairness and what is right are supposed to trump who your daddy is. If you want to keep Mexicans out because they're "stealing the jobs", I submit to you that THEY are what America is about, and YOU are no different from the aristocracies that were fled to put this country on the map to begin with.

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 12:12 AM. Reason : asdf]

4/16/2006 12:11:52 AM

Quote :

"i simply said that it would benefit me."

in other words, you are happy to sap them for their money, asshole.

Quote :

"HOW HAS IT PROVEN UNTENABLE!"

Quote :

"75% benefits"

Quote :

"To say nothing of the fact, once again, that the people of this country agree that any job should have a certain minimum wage, regardless of whether or not the person performing it is a Mexican."

which is why we are paying these millions of Mexicans less than minimum wage to do those jobs, right?

Quote :

"Ah, I see, just like I have absolutely no respect for someone who rabidly defends unjust laws and attacks those with the courage to violate them."

the only thing "unjust" about the law is that it makes it illegal for you to make a killing on your widgets by exploiting Mexicans.

Quote :

"Or how about the part where I think it's just wrong to arbitrarily hand out rights based on what plot of dirt you hit when you fell out of your mom's vagina?"

you'll have to forgive me Grumpy, but I'm not as pie in the sky naive as you are. It sounds great to say "ooooooooooh woooooooooooooooooe is me! those poor people who were born on the wrong side of the border. oooooooooooooh the calamity!!!!" if this were 1920, I might agree. But since we now give fucking handouts to people left and right and we have programs in place that are designed for CITIZENS, I start to draw the line a little harder in the sand.

And like I said, at some point you have to draw the line between legal and illegal. And that will always have something to do with which plot of dirt you fell on. Its a fact that can't be escaped. But hey, keep making your millions on your widgets.

Quote :

"oh wait, no, I don't remember any of those things, because they haven't happened at all."

oooh, but it will. if you keep allowing these people to cross the border illegally and fraudulently obtain benefits from this country, then we will end up like that shithole across the border, where laws mean nothing. thats the whole fucking point. Mexico is a shithole because its politicians and people put up with asswipes that don't follow the law. By doing the same thing here, the US will turn into the same shithole.

Quote :

"a place where hard work is supposed to pay off"

hard work isn't whats "paying off" for Mexicans. rather, exploitation is what is "paying off."

4/16/2006 8:19:17 AM

Quote :

"hard work isn't whats "paying off" for Mexicans. rather, exploitation is what is "paying off.""

Tell that to the guy who left his family, made a dangerous border crossing, got a job doing manual labor for $5/hour, lives in a trailer with eleventeen other guys who did the same thing...it's certainly hard work, and they must not feel TOO exploited, or we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?


now all of that said, if we do what I argue for, it won't be exploitation when they're legal residents/citizens.

4/16/2006 11:23:45 AM

can we just delete all of stalker00's posts and get back to a real conversation?

4/16/2006 3:56:11 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12346205/

4/17/2006 12:40:58 AM

wow @ this thread. just...wow.

 

4/17/2006 1:04:02 AM

haha, which side or what specifically are you struck speechless by?

4/17/2006 1:12:17 AM

pretty much everything posted by stalker00...but also a bit of the responses from GrumpyGOP and RevoltNow

i'm just speechless across the board... 

4/17/2006 1:14:38 AM

Quote :

"I'd jump into this thread, but GrumpyGOP pretty much pwns everyone on the issue...and since I agree with him anyway, I'll just get my popcorn ready and watch..."

-TGD

4/17/2006 1:57:04 AM

Quote :

"which is why we are paying these millions of Mexicans less than minimum wage to do those jobs, right? "

"We," the people of this country, do no such thing, and in fact generally disapprove.

Soulless coporations and individual pricks =/= "the people"

Quote :

"the only thing "unjust" about the law is that it makes it illegal for you to make a killing on your widgets by exploiting Mexicans."

This actually makes negative sense.

Let's assume for the moment that I had anything to gain from paying people less than minimum wage, or that I had anything in common with people that do. (We have to assume it, because I don't). If that were the case, I would want immigration laws to stay on the books so that there would still be plenty of undocumented labor that could be paid under the table. If all the illegals were made citizens, I would have to pay more for.

Since it's in my best interest for immigrants to stay illegal, why do I want so badly to make them legal?

Oh, that's right, I stand to receive no personal gain from the changes I propose.

Quote :

"if this were 1920, I might agree. But since we now give fucking handouts to people left and right"

Then go complain to someone about the handouts, which have nothing to do with immigration.

Quote :

"And like I said, at some point you have to draw the line between legal and illegal."

And like I've said, that line is clear: if you are a habitual criminal, felon, or suspected terrorist, you would be "illegal." If you're just someone who is trying to find greater safety, stability, and prosperity, then you would be "legal."

Quote :

"if you keep allowing these people to cross the border illegally and fraudulently obtain benefits from this country, then we will end up like that shithole across the border, where laws mean nothing."

1) I don't want to keep letting illegals do anything. I want to make the illegals into legals.
2) Every country on Earth has laws that it occasionally ignores. Were we about to turn into a shithole when blowjobs were illegal but people were getting them anyway? Oh, that's right, it has nothing to do with what laws mean, it has to do with them being Mexican, or you'd just say we should change the laws and let them in.

4/17/2006 10:54:53 AM

Not hearing about this stuff in the news any more… maybe the easter break diffused the situation some… didn’t hear about it on NPR when it was all that was on last week & didn’t see any front page articles on CNN about it any more.

4/17/2006 10:59:05 AM

this is pretty much how I feel about it.

Quote :

"Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt 1907 "

All the concessions we pay for them is utter bullshit.

4/17/2006 1:52:05 PM

^So how would you define an "American" then? What is this "American" that you want immigrants have to assimilate in to? Is it just speaking English, or what?

4/17/2006 2:07:32 PM