Maybe you are confused because I am using the 19th century version of the word "Liberal." You see, early in the 20th century the word liberal was morphed to include fascist ideals, best displayed by FDR's National Recovery Agency in the 1930's which attempted to re-organize the U.S. economy along Fascist economic principles.

9/5/2006 3:27:56 PM

9/5/2006 3:32:03 PM

9/5/2006 4:47:32 PM

leave it to lonesnark to be a complete dumbass

9/5/2006 4:54:22 PM

I think what you've just said does not compute.

In fact, I know it doesn't.

Nutlicker, not LoneShark

[Edited on September 5, 2006 at 4:56 PM. Reason : clarity]

9/5/2006 4:56:21 PM

^^ I was a bit harsh, the events of the 1930s need to be in context. While FDR was trying to impliment some fascist ideals he had no patience for others. He wanted to impliment fascist economic policy without implimenting fascist political policy. He was not evil, just mis-informed. He thought the liberal economic order was dead and he needed to replace it, I can understand believing that at the time. Ultimately his fascist economic order was ruled unconstitutional, so the harm done was not irreversible.

9/5/2006 10:11:40 PM

many people believe that fdr and his socialist policies saved our country. NOT TRUE. they were unconsitutional (as stated) and resulted in further mediocrity, and they were finally purged from our system by Reagan. Thanks to him, we avoided becoming a European-style socialist state, and hopefully if we can win the current war of ideas and defeat the ideas of socialized healthcare, education, and welfare, we can finally flush this "liberalism" out of society for good and create an america fully ready for conservative values on all fronts.

9/5/2006 11:11:53 PM

Not to defend FDR, but he simply continued the policies exposed by Hoover before him, only more-so, or economic nationalism. Fascism was just very popular in the U.S. back in the 1920's and 30's and they didn't realize until too late how evil such a state-centered society would become.

9/5/2006 11:36:53 PM

Quote :

"many people believe that fdr and his socialist policies saved our country. NOT TRUE. they were unconsitutional (as stated) and resulted in further mediocrity, and they were finally purged from our system by Reagan. Thanks to him, we avoided becoming a European-style socialist state, and hopefully if we can win the current war of ideas and defeat the ideas of socialized healthcare, education, and welfare, we can finally flush this "liberalism" out of society for good and create an america fully ready for conservative values on all fronts."

The 20th century was among the best of times for the US. It's the century we really rose to be the military and economic power of the world. If you haven't noticed, that power is currently waning somewhat.

9/6/2006 12:21:04 AM

Quote :

"The 20th century was among the best of times for the US."

Not true. The U.S. surpassed Great Britain economically in the 19th century. On a per-capita basis we were always ahead, all we lacked was population.

Besides, what is your point, moron? Our power is not wanning, it is simply that everyone else is no longer making themselves poor. The U.S. is richer and more powerful than ever, it is just that everyone else is too.

9/6/2006 8:32:56 AM

do you even think about what you write before you write it?

9/6/2006 8:57:43 AM

Did I say something in particular you disagree with, or are you just wondering whether I am drunk yet still managing to be profound?

If he meant relative might he should have said that.

Besides, the closest "Power" to America is Europe which is falling further and further behind both economically and militarily (and eventually reproductively). Therefore, I must profess, America in comparison to its closest potential rivals is getting stronger, not weaker. This will change around 2015 or so when China's economy finally becomes larger than Europe's. But until then America's financial markets could probably buy out the whole of China.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 9:50 AM. Reason : .,.]

9/6/2006 9:48:42 AM

you just completely ignore what people say an go off on weird tangents.

9/6/2006 9:56:28 AM

^you mean like when you turned this thread into an argument about whether i held "communist leanings" because of a stupid logo? you ruined this thread, idiot.


compassionate liberals? yeah right.

9/6/2006 8:24:57 PM

Compassionate Conservatives?

I think not.

9/6/2006 8:30:01 PM

^how long ago was that? how many kkk members exist in the US today?

and if i remember correctly, the DEMOCRATS were the party of segregation and the south.

now tell me, how many anti-war liberals are there in the US today? my picture is from the past couple years.

9/6/2006 8:35:06 PM

Quote :

"As of 2005, there were an estimated 3,000 Klan members, divided between estimates of 100[68] and 158 chapters of a variety of splinter organizations, about two-thirds of which were in former Confederate states. The other third are primarily in the Midwest. [69][70][71]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#The_Ku_Klux_Klan_today

Now add to that the racists who aren't in this specific organization.

Do you see how idiotic your argument is?

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 8:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2006 8:37:45 PM

there were 10x more than that at the most recent "peace" rallies in DC.

9/6/2006 8:38:44 PM

Randy you have no idea whats going on

9/6/2006 8:59:11 PM

ive been around, ive seen more than you. ive seen their masses gather to protest liberation. ive seen them gather to promote the destruction of the constitution.

you have no idea.

9/6/2006 9:04:59 PM

you have been the one slamming people for protesting against the erosion of constitutional liberties

9/6/2006 9:19:03 PM

^thats a horrible argument. i support our constitution as it was written, but i realize that this is a war we are in, a war against islamic facists. if we must "erode" what you refer to as "civil liberties", which arent explicitly stated in the constitution to begin with, to catch and prosecute those who look to kill us, then so be it.

why do you protest wars of liberation? by this logic, liberals are spitting in the face of other similar wars of liberation, such as the ones in europe, the pacific, and (gasp!) vietnam.

9/6/2006 9:22:33 PM

Well, if you insist on erroding the long standing purpose of our basis of government, then the terrorists have won. They have suceeded into driving us into making knee jerk policy decisions based on fear, and everyday drive us to subverting our Western values and ideals in the name of security. We don't need terrorists anymore, we terrorize our own people with unrestricted surveillance and false imprisonment.

We CAN have security and liberties. You can wiretap, you just have to a judge with a security clearance to issue a warrant.

You can imprision combatants and terrorists. You just have to charge them with something.

The whole issue is oversight. Can we trust the government to do whats right if theres no way to check up on them? It seems they are shady and corrupt now, what sort of country would we live in if we allowed our country to regress to the point where we could no longer hold our leaders accountable?

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither" - Benjamin Franklin

9/6/2006 9:44:12 PM

PS

Quote :

"and if i remember correctly, the DEMOCRATS were the party of segregation and the south"

Republicans in the south were nonexistant untill the 1960's when millions of blacks became mobilized, enfranchised and registered Democrat.... and all of a sudden there was a white flight and Republicans became the party of the white Southerner. So by telling half the truth, you were half right.

9/6/2006 10:02:04 PM

Quote :

"ive been around, ive seen more than you. ive seen their masses gather to protest liberation. ive seen them gather to promote the destruction of the constitution. you have no idea."

ahaha

you haven't seen the shit, maaaan. I have!

There were signs! And pot smoke!

You have no idea!

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 10:20 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2006 10:19:47 PM

they didnt shower and smelled like grass. And they wore clothes that must have been made the day before from rope.

IT WAS HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!

9/6/2006 10:55:46 PM

hahaha, nice try.

you didnt even watch any of the videos of the actual people did you?

this is not to say that the protests themselves will change anything. thankfully, these fools are too radical for most americans. but as the anti-war, pro-welfare state mobs begin to draw in more and more people, it frankly annoys me and makes me weary of a shift towards the left in our government.

as government controlled education fails, they demand that we throw more tax dollars at it.

as terrorists continue to plot, they demand that we give them rights and not fight them overseas before they strike us here.

as certain industries falter, they wish to unionize, raise corporate taxes, and put more and more restrictions or production and profits.


It saddens me to see so much of our nation's citizenry, especially its youth led down this path of destruction. that is why i care, and that is why i hope to arm others with knowledge to fight this encroachment of oppression. if you want to help us, thank you. if not, continue on your path to destruction. you, like every leftists government, will fail.

9/7/2006 12:49:43 AM

Some partisan video of a protest is just smoke and mirrors. Sure there are people in the American Communist Party who come out at some demonstrations. Just like the Westboro Baptist Church and supremacist crowd come out at Conservative rallies. They are such tiny fringe groups that have no influence on the policies of this country, they are laughed off. It would be political suicide for any politician to be seen with them, let alone espouse their policies.

its interesting that most of your views deal with strictly economic arguements

what place do human and environmental interests factor into your political model?

and quit saying "nice try"

You make no counterpoints. Its like the Mac commercial where the PC guy keeps on saying touche'. You can't say touche' untill you make a counterpoint.




[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 1:05 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 12:58:52 AM

theres no need to say again whats been said. i favor AS FEW government interventions in economic affairs as humanly possible. i am a reagan conservative. lower taxes and reduce spending, and it will fall in place from there.

and while true commies might be on the fringe, the wacko lefty anti-war, pro-welfare state machine is alive and well, and looking to take back the government this year.

you keep telling me i dont respond. i respond to what i can decipher from the personalized hate thrown at me. do i get mad? yes. do i single out individuals as despicable on here? no, i am just here to fight the left in the war of words that they continue to purpotrate.

9/7/2006 1:22:35 AM

Quote :

" i am a reagan conservative. lower taxes and reduce spending, and it will fall in place from there."

Someone is still deluding himself.

Quote :

"and while true commies might be on the fringe, the wacko lefty anti-war, pro-welfare state machine is alive and well, and looking to take back the government this year [because after having control of all 3 branches for nearly 8 years, most Americans were not convinced by the conservative message or track record]. "

The "anti-war, pro-welfare state machine" is actually just the American people who have changed their mind. You are again deluding yourself.

Your caricatures of the left and the right are fantasies you have to lean on because that's the only way your views can make sense. Those of us who live in the real, grown up world know better.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 1:50 AM. Reason : zfsdf]

9/7/2006 1:37:09 AM

Quote :

"i favor AS FEW government interventions in economic affairs as humanly possible."

Business has done everything to slight the American worker over the last 30 years. Exporting our well paying manufacturing jobs overseas. The construction and agriculture industries consist of a majority of illegal immigrant labor. Pensions have been eliminated,retirement benefits eliminated, health care benefits eliminated, vacation time is cut and still jobs continue to be lost. 1/4 of Americans take no vacation off at all. Wages have stagnated and decreased and are not keeping up with inflation/

Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with a job not having health care coverage? Why should a worker pay its own wages to ensure that he is healthy enough for work? People already pay for transportation costs, is the whole point of working just to stay alive so that someone can continue to exploit you for profit?

What is happening is all out class welfare on the middle and lower classes. If the rich are engaging in class welfare to economically oppress the majority of Americans, why shouldn't we be suprised when the electorate vote for policies and politicians who are looking out for their best interests?

9/7/2006 1:43:59 AM

I really dislike this Randy...

Do you have original thoughts? Can you say something if it's not a Republican talking point or in “Rush Limbaugh’s Stack of Stuff?” You sound like a fucking moron.


^ I disagree with a lot of what you just said.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 2:27 AM. Reason : ]

9/7/2006 2:24:01 AM

^^ Argh, so many lies, so little time...
Just the most fundamental:
Wages are not set by the generosity of business men, they pay what they must just like the rest of us.
The U.S. manufacturing sector is producing around 20% more goods today than in 1998. So, we cannot be exporting manufacturing jobs, otherwise production would have fallen, not risen. What is happening is that we are producing so much more with far fewer workers, this is your run-of-the-mill productivity gains from technology, not China.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/G17/Current/ipg2.gif

And what is the difference between my employer paying for my health care on one hand, and my employer paying me extra wages so I can buy my own health care? It is not as if you derive no benefits from health care, so deal with it and pay for it. A healthy you can sell your labor for a higher wage so health care is better described as an investment in YOU, it is only fair that YOU pay for it, because you could quit tomorrow and your employer would have received none of the benefits from your good health.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 8:40 AM. Reason : link]

9/7/2006 8:40:00 AM

9/7/2006 8:52:10 AM

Quote :

"Business Unions and socialist policies have done everything to slight the American worker over the last 30 years. Exporting our well paying manufacturing jobs overseas. The construction and agriculture industries consist of a majority of illegal immigrant labor. Pensions have been eliminated,retirement benefits eliminated, health care benefits eliminated, vacation time is cut and still jobs continue to be lost. 1/4 of Americans take no vacation off at all. Wages have stagnated and decreased and are not keeping up with inflation/"

You think that more intervention will fix this? Take a look at Europe and their attitude of "legislate everything". They've fallen behind now thanks to unions driving up the cost of business (much as they did to industry here) and the high tax rates.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 12:33:38 PM

hahaha thats why socialist europe has like 100000000 times more vacation days and work less.

9/7/2006 12:34:47 PM

glad we actually still value and reward hard work and dont legislate slothfulness like they do. you HAVE to take those vacation days.

9/7/2006 12:36:41 PM

so are you saying what you just pasted up their is bullshit?

9/7/2006 12:37:48 PM

Are you saying it isn't true that American's are able to demand far higher salaries because of all those work hours we put in?

9/7/2006 12:44:22 PM

um....how can you even make a claim like that without evidence

9/7/2006 12:51:15 PM

Sorry, thought you had read my posts before. I direct you to:
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

For starters. After that, using CIA Factbook statistics I compiled this neat little table:


Ok, so, from this table, comparing France and the U.S., the relative per-capita incomes are striking:
The average frenchman has an income only 71% of his American counterpart.
After filtering out the extremes (Delaware and Arkansaw), that is excluding the top and bottom 10%, the frenchman still only earns about 75% as much as his Americans counterpart.

9/7/2006 2:22:10 PM

yet we have one of the lowest "lowest capita" and a "middle capita" that is not much larger than the others "middle capita". And this chart doesnt factor in lifestyle expenses.

that chart helps you........none.

9/7/2006 2:30:11 PM

It doesn't factor in a lot of things:
such as that a sizeable percentage of the American population are recent immigrants with no education and no english, which hammers the lowest capita income.

It also doesn't factor in the fact that American families tend to be larger with more children, particularly among the lowest capita income earners.

It also doesn't factor in the far lower cost of living in most of America.

It also doesn't factor in the far lower tax burden on the poor in most of America (0% to 10% sales tax versus 20% Value added tax).

And like I said in my last post which you ignored, the french middle capita earns 75% as much as Americans. That is a middle capita 33% larger in America compared to France. Meanwhile, the American lowest capita is only 15% lower than their French counterparts. All in all, France has made a terrible trade off if that is what it did, helping the poor only marginally while slashing the incomes of everyone else.

9/7/2006 2:41:38 PM

of course, choosing between living in any of those countries to me is like choosing b/w wendy's and mcdonalds.

9/7/2006 2:57:06 PM

its obvious that many of you cant grasp at what im getting at here. every time you post, you pretty much either get shot down by me or lonesnark in here. im going to keep posting, but every time you bring up one of your little "arguments", im just going to have to go ahead and respond with a little smiley face

9/8/2006 11:02:56 AM

movies about bush getting assassinated...

campaigns sabotaged and families intimidated...

all in a day's work for the compassionate left

9/13/2006 2:02:51 PM

starting wars for no reason ($500 billion and 2,600 dead soldiers)

taking bribes to steer no bid government contracts that waste billions

creating laws that quash freedom and political dissent under the guise of terror

spending huge sums so that our government will eventually default on its loans

the elimination of church and state separation and rule by faith than reason

Turning America in Orwell's 1984. All in a day's work for compassionate conservatives!

9/13/2006 2:22:55 PM

Quote :

"what you refer to as "civil liberties", which arent explicitly stated in the constitution to begin with"

since when?

Quote :

"the wacko lefty anti-war, pro-welfare state machine is alive and well, and looking to take back the government this year."

They already have it, and have for about 10 years now. You just mean that the Democrats are looking to take back Congress. I, for one, barely even care. While they might be socially more liberal than I am on some issues, at least it would provide some much needed balance in our gov't. Maybe a good kick to the teeth would spark the GOP into, well, acting like Republicans (and not riding the Religious Right vote everywhere they go).

Quote :

" Exporting our well paying manufacturing jobs overseas."

i don't have too much of a problem with this, generally speaking.

Quote :

"Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with a job not having health care coverage? "

No. Find a job with health coverage if that's what you want.

Quote :

"Wages are not set by the generosity of business men, they pay what they must just like the rest of us."

Exactly, and the converse is also true.

Quote :

"hahaha thats why socialist europe has like 100000000 times more vacation days and work less."

Well no shit, but there's a price to pay for that.

9/14/2006 8:45:23 AM

Quote :

" there is still a large, vocal contingency of leftists who beleive these ridiculous mantras. "

dont us liberals say the same thing about all you anus reaming right wingers believing the ridiculous mantras that are fed to you by the right and the bush administration?

face it, both sides think the other is wrong, its never going to change, and the only thing you are doing by constantly flaming the soap box is stirring up anger and making people hate you; just do yourself a favor, if you want to talk the right side talk, thats fine, just dont do it in such an inflammatory manner.

9/14/2006 3:22:28 PM

tell me some of these lies that all conservatives believe.

9/14/2006 3:31:16 PM