Quote :

"but if he had been in the house and made a threatening gesture, motion (here is your defense in this instance) he could have been blasted, otherwise you can't do anything but hide and call 911 and warn him that you are armed "

According to Johnston County D.A. Tom Lock:

Quote :

"A homeowner may use deadly force to repel someone who is trying to break into their home"

I assume the D.A. would know the law, and that doesn't sound like you need to hide and call 911.

9/20/2006 3:27:09 PM

^ Actualy, it's an interesting part of the law that I've never seen realy clarified. If they are breaking into your home, then from everything I've read (and the DA's statements) you can use deadly force. But once they are in your home, they have to actualy threaten you in order for deadly force to be authorized. Welcome to the fucked up world of deadly force laws.

9/20/2006 4:06:01 PM

that may be the johnston DA, I'm just repeating standard training that I've learned and helped teach with NC CCW classes

trying to, and already being in are two different things

you can legally in NC, blast someone through the door if you feel threatened by them breaking in

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 4:08 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2006 4:07:23 PM

If someone who is unknown to me is in my house or has been in my house and I see him.. I'm shooting first and will figure out the law later.. If he's not directly threatening me I'll just aim for an arm or leg.. But he will be shot.. period..

9/20/2006 4:25:22 PM

Quote :

"If he's not directly threatening me I'll just aim for an arm or leg.. But he will be shot.. period.."

Bullshit...Do you know how scared and pumped full of adrenaline you're going to be when someone breaks in your house? You'll be lucky if your eyes are still open when you pull the trigger.

If you're threatened, shoot for the area of most mass (body.) Otherwise, don't pull the trigger.

9/20/2006 4:45:04 PM

"shoot first, ask questions later" is only applicable if you live in the old west or new york.

9/20/2006 4:52:49 PM

The crime of robbery, or breaking and entering is not punishable

1) by an ordinary citizen
2) by death

This is assuming the old man was not in any danger and the perp was actually running away or leaving. Any intimidation or otherwise threats would prove the man used acceptable lethal force.

Problem in this situation is that the kid is dead, and my guess is that the old man wins if it goes to court. Easy to make up (if that is the case) a story about being threatened if the other party is dead.

9/20/2006 6:56:25 PM

jury nullification bitches

9/20/2006 9:18:55 PM

^^did the guy die?

Quote :

"If he's not directly threatening me I'll just aim for an arm or leg.. But he will be shot.. period.."

really dumb idea, both from a tactical and legal standpoint.

hitting someone in the arm of leg is a tougher shot than aiming center of mass. plus, there's no guarantee that you'll stop him--and if you don't, he is going to be PISSED.

in the eyes of the law (and pretty much common sense, too), if you are in a dire enough situation to need to shoot someone, you're in a dire enough situation that you need to put 2 in his chest. If you can get away with shooting him in the arm, you probably had no business shooting him at all. therefore, you are actually more likely to get in trouble for kneecapping someone than for wasting him.

(especially in light of the fact that dead men tell no lies. you only want one story told in court).

9/20/2006 9:27:50 PM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail."

I dated a girl my freshman year whose sister's boyfriend shot a guy in the back after he had been robbed. He went to jail. So should this old man.

9/20/2006 10:41:59 PM

Quote :

"^^did the guy die? "

I don't think he did. From the story I heard last night he took a bullet in the arm.

9/20/2006 10:44:33 PM

I don't care if the fucker's running away ... who says he doesn't have a gun hidden? someone tries to come into my house, imma make sure they don't try that shit again, but that said aim to injure not to kill unless the person's tryna kill you

9/20/2006 10:45:28 PM

Shoot to kill. Dead men tell no tales.

9/20/2006 11:02:28 PM

^^

[sigh]

look 3 posts above yours.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 11:17 PM. Reason : if you're going to shoot him, aim to kill him and don't stop until you do]

9/20/2006 11:16:59 PM

Quote :

"I don't care if the fucker's running away ... who says he doesn't have a gun hidden?"

I highly doubt a burglar would have the motive or skill to shoot you while running away.

9/21/2006 12:16:07 AM

if your life is being threatened, then cap the motherfucker. if he's running away, call the police. this is not brain science.

9/21/2006 6:19:49 AM

I'm not sure if it is legal or not, but it should be.

I'm one of those people that believes that while you are trying to commit a crime (or escaping from getting caught committing a crime) that can easily turn into violence and murder, your right to life has been suspended pending the judgement of the person with the gun. This man had no idea if this 19 year old intended to come back and kill him later, and I surely wouldn't take that kind of a chance with my family.

Once you pop the lock to enter my home, you are only getting away because I miss. Hopefully I'll hit you in the head and end your miserable life of crime. This criminal deserved to get shot and I hope he gets raped in jail.

9/21/2006 7:35:39 AM

Quote :

"he did the right thing. bleeding-heart commie democrats will cry [attempted?] murder, though.... "

That's my "general" view..

But it's not legal from what I've heard (or maybe I just understood wrong all these years). But if you could just shoot someone for entering your house, how much room for corruption is there? I mean, so if you want to off someone, just invite them over and make it looked like they broke in?

But yeah, if a strange guy forces his way into my house uninvited at night, I would take it as an attack on my person and react accordingly

[Edited on September 21, 2006 at 8:28 AM. Reason : .]

9/21/2006 8:27:46 AM

Quote :

"Once you pop the lock to enter my home, you are only getting away because I miss. Hopefully I'll hit you in the head and end your miserable life of crime. This criminal deserved to get shot and I hope he gets raped in jail."

im sorry but theft, unlike violent crimes, is committed by a large variety of people. you dont know whether you are shooting a coke addict or some kid who is stealing some beer for his friends. are they right to break into your house? of course not, but that doesnt mean every petty theif should be sentenced to death by vigilante justice.

9/21/2006 9:00:02 AM

It'll teach them to stop breaking into houses.

9/21/2006 9:08:13 AM

good thing the world is so black and white.

9/21/2006 9:20:31 AM

Here's the thing, if little johny wants to score some beer for his friends and doesn't want to get shot, maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't BREAK INTO MY HOUSE.

It's not vigilante justice it's defence of life, property and wellbeing. You are breaking into my home. I don't know you, I don't know anything about you and I don't know your intent. What I do know is that you have no regard for the law (hence you are breaking into my house) and thus have a higher chance of having no regard for my life. Therefore I will be shooting to kill because you are a threat to me.

Why do we have a world were we have sympathy for criminals breaking into our homes. I don't care if you're a crack head or a stupid punk looking to get some kicks, it's my home, you are not welcome and the lock on the door was a pretty clear indication of that fact. Don't break into my home, and I won't shoot you, it's a very simple equation.

9/21/2006 9:39:20 AM

It comes down to this decision do you want to be carried out on your back by 8 people or do you want 12 people deciding your fate. I say that if they come into your house then you should call the cops and then go deal with the introuder. Everyone who said that they wouldn't shoot a kid driving away from the crime i have a question for you. If someone broke in and stole some stuff and your child got hurt by the individual would you still just let them leave and wait for the cops to show up?

9/21/2006 9:58:42 AM

i like how you throw "and hurt your child" to make it that much grayer.

im not saying that these kids dont deserve to go to jail or anything (or get attacked if they actually did attack you or your family), but come the fuck on. you arent defending your life when you run out and shoot someone who is running/driving away. call the cops, take a defensive position to protect your loved ones (or stuff if it matters that much, if you are so worried about your life though i dont see why you are running to save the stereo), and deal with the intruder if they come for you. i dont think the best defense is a good offense in this case.

best thing he could have done in this situation was to get a description and license plate number, not fire off 4 rounds.


i also find it odd how can pro-gun people argue that guns PREVENT or DETER criminals from mugging people, buglary, etc and then say that they need to kill that person so they don't run away and get a gun? they know you have a gun and arent afraid to use it, so besides really wanting that plasma, why would they come after you again?

9/21/2006 10:16:58 AM

9/21/2006 10:24:05 AM

9/21/2006 10:32:02 AM

Legally he was in a gray area..more towards the wrong side. He should only receive a slap on the wrist if anything....



In my opinion he did nothing wrong. If someone tries to break into your house they have signed a contract for whatever force you deem appropriate. I don't care if it is weeks later.

9/21/2006 10:38:40 AM

old man james?

9/21/2006 1:45:20 PM

^ agree

9/21/2006 2:15:26 PM

Quote :

"im sorry but theft, unlike violent crimes, is committed by a large variety of people. you dont know whether you are shooting a coke addict or some kid who is stealing some beer for his friends. are they right to break into your house? of course not, but that doesnt mean every petty theif should be sentenced to death by vigilante justice."

Wow, you didn't even pick someone who deserved to live in your examples?

I mean, I might have budged a bit if you were like "breaking in to steal bread for his starving children after he lost his job at the textile mill" but you pick some piece of shit coke addict and some kid who breaks into your house late at night to try to take beer?

I'd say both of those people deserve to be shot not necessarily for the crime of petty theft, but for being so fucking stupid as to put themselves in that kind of a situation for drug money or beer.

I don't care whether or not it is illegal, a 19 year old (shit, a 12 year old) that breaks into my home in the middle of the night poses a threat to my family. Just because he got scared and ran away when he saw me with a gun doesn't mean he won't come back for his own revenge. I'll shoot and shoot to kill.

If I do time for it, at least I will know I am right.

9/21/2006 2:16:11 PM

murder gets the "jesus-loves-you" thumbs-up seal of approval.

9/21/2006 2:36:57 PM

does anyone remember the case where the guy thought he was breaking into his own house, but got shot?

whoops! it's okay though, he deserved it!

9/21/2006 2:40:43 PM

His intentions were to come into the place and intrude whether he got the chance or not, who's to say he wouldn't come back later when they were asleep? The man was in the win!

9/21/2006 3:22:29 PM

Quote :

"Wow, you didn't even pick someone who deserved to live in your examples?"

yeah some 14 year old making a stupid mistake deserves to die. they cant legally consent to most contracts, consent to sex in many states, buy cigarettes, vote, be tried as an adult, etc but they deserve to die cuz they broke into your house.

i used that particular example because i remembered a time that some local kids had broken into some garage type areas and stolen beer. they got caught when they were stupid enough to do it to a cop (unknowingly). but nah, they deserved to get shot in the face cuz they potentially threatened your life. might as well kill them if they come on your property to get their ball despite a no trespassing sign. thats alright though, you warned them.

9/21/2006 3:22:47 PM

Maybe it will make other intruders/robbers think twice before doing stupid shit like that.

9/21/2006 3:23:56 PM

People who speed might run into me and kill. i'll just shoot them so that people won't speed.

there is such a thing as using judgement and pursuing a reasonable course of action based on the risk at hand. shooting a guy who is running away is unnecessary. if the man was so scared, he could have taken his wife with him to the police station and talked to them about the whole thing. the guy should have been writing down a license plate number, not shooting.

9/21/2006 3:26:46 PM

i hope nobody in this thread who keeps parroting this "Maybe it will make other intruders/robbers think twice before doing stupid shit like that" bs is in favor of decriminalization of drugs.

sure toss a guy in cali in jail for life cuz he got his 3rd strike, no matter how harmless or minor the offense was. he shoulda known better eh?

9/21/2006 3:44:28 PM

^^Yeah get that license plate old man. Cause old people have the best vision usually and at night time its so easy to see. I say it was not right to shoot him riding away but come on think of a better argument than a old gentleman trying to read a plate as its driving away. Also guns don't kill people, People kill people. Its a person's choice to pull the trigger. If you want to take away guns then you better take away a knifes. Whatever is a weapon that will scare people criminals will use. If you are properly trained and know how to shoot then i would argue that you are less of a target.

9/21/2006 3:48:04 PM

so if you cant read a license plate you should bump up to shooting someone? thats quite the leap.

9/21/2006 3:49:33 PM

^^who's saying to take people's guns away? and what ^he said

9/21/2006 3:51:38 PM

Well, the kid probably won't be doing any more robbery/breaking entering /whatever

9/21/2006 3:56:05 PM

^^ okay it wasn't right to shoot the kid riding away i would have tried to shoot out a tire myself. Also if he lives in the country its going to take a few minutes for cops to even get to his house. Leave the old man alone. He did what most any person would do. No one can say what they would do until it happens to you.

9/21/2006 3:59:55 PM

i wasn't saying to just call the cops. if the guy is SO afraid. why not drive away himself to the police station? oh i forgot, it's a lot less trouble to just shoot people.

9/21/2006 4:12:51 PM

^^ Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night to hear someone breaking into your house?? Their is a thing called fear, and sometimes peoples bodies and minds react differently to this shock. I am glad to know when something shocking happens to you that you camly call 911 walk out on your porch get the plate of the car and wait for the cops. Funny thing is most of the time people who need to call 911 often call 411 because they have tunnel vision and cannot remember the basic things.

9/21/2006 4:20:43 PM

if you become so frightened that you cant rationally decide whether deadly force is necessary, i say you dont deserve to own a firearm.

id contend that once you start chasing people and shooting at them as they run, you arent acting solely on fear anymore.

9/21/2006 4:26:09 PM

I contend that once you have tunnel vision and you have made the decision to protect your family you just act on natural responce. Its not that you have no right to be carrying a gun its the fact that once your heart starts racing you forget basic rules. Look at cops sometimes after chases or in the heat of the moment events people can be told to stop or not do something but they are wrapped up with one thing in mind they don't listen. Its like in sports when a basketball player shoots freethrows some block out all the noise and people they only see the ball and goal.

9/21/2006 4:31:33 PM

if someone breaks into my place I'm gonna let him take everything and do what he wants with my family, I'll wait until the cops show up, they'll save me!!!

9/21/2006 4:37:56 PM

Quote :

"sure toss a guy in cali in jail for life cuz he got his 3rd strike, no matter how harmless or minor the offense was. he shoulda known better eh?"

YES HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER

I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK

9/21/2006 4:39:06 PM

How about if TWW compares these two situations

/message_topic.aspx?topic=428650&page=1

9/21/2006 4:48:20 PM

Quote :

"yeah some 14 year old making a stupid mistake deserves to die. they cant legally consent to most contracts, consent to sex in many states, buy cigarettes, vote, be tried as an adult, etc but they deserve to die cuz they broke into your house. "

Breaking into someone's home is not a stupid mistake, it's a wilful act. Whether made because they're too stupid to think about the consequences is irellevant, it's not a mistake.

Quote :

"might as well kill them if they come on your property to get their ball despite a no trespassing sign. thats alright though, you warned them."

Because being on the property, especialy to re-aquire something that belongs to them, and BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE are exactly the same thing.

Quote :

"People who speed might run into me and kill. i'll just shoot them so that people won't speed. "

Again, because speeding and BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE are the same thing.

Quote :

"there is such a thing as using judgement and pursuing a reasonable course of action based on the risk at hand. shooting a guy who is running away is unnecessary. if the man was so scared, he could have taken his wife with him to the police station and talked to them about the whole thing. the guy should have been writing down a license plate number, not shooting."

I agree that once he was driving away he was no longer a threat, but personaly, until you are off my property, running away from me doesn't make you any less of a threat, for all I know you're going to get the gun you left in the car, or you're just seeking some cover to fire back from.

Quote :

"i hope nobody in this thread who keeps parroting this "Maybe it will make other intruders/robbers think twice before doing stupid shit like that" bs is in favor of decriminalization of drugs. sure toss a guy in cali in jail for life cuz he got his 3rd strike, no matter how harmless or minor the offense was. he shoulda known better eh?"

WTF? What does deciminalizing drugs have to do with anything? And yes, go to jail for 3 fuckups, you had TWO other chances to not fuckup AGAIN. It's not an accident when it happens 3 times.

Quote :

"if the guy is SO afraid. why not drive away himself to the police station? oh i forgot, it's a lot less trouble to just shoot people."

And if chicken shit had a friend who wasn't so easily scared, or didn't get to the car in time, what happens when old man wheels his wife out onto the porch to get to the car?

Quote :

"How about if TWW compares these two situations"

Again, being on property and breaking and entering are two VERY different things,

9/21/2006 5:17:40 PM