y0 nigga, too many words and i didnt understand your dental school remark, maybe because i didnt read all of it. i would goto dental school no matter what it would cost. its a goal i set and i will try my hardest to achieve. with my family, it doesnt come down to money. if i can manage to get into a dental school, not only am i happy, but i am making my family happy and they are willing to help with money or whatever i need.

anyways... there are different automotive sports out there.

some nigs like drag strip, some like to ride go karts.

of course everything you do costs money. but the whole idea of HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) is just that. its like an advanced drivers ed class for people who want to avoid as much as they can on the public streets/highways.

10/12/2006 11:59:05 PM

...nigga understands that and still thinks $500 is too much for few hours of ANY fun.

/out

[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 12:29 AM. Reason : and about]

10/13/2006 12:27:36 AM

Quote :

"i dont think you understand what im discussing. im not talking about the fun factor or learning experience, im talking about the expense associated with this fun. $279+1.5 tank gas ($50)+food ($15)+hotel ($60) +brake pads($50)+brake fluid($20) flush+tire wear($50 or more)=$524 it is financially dumb to spend this kind of money if you are of financial caliber to afford an average $15k car (which is probably 80% of the people in garage) and you make less than $65k/year. if you can afford $40k car, have mommy and daddy support you then, yes, it is worth it. you can equate this to people who spend $5000 on chrome 26" rims on a car with 10" rotors. it is worth that much to them, but to 100% of people around them it is the dumbest thing one can do. to them style is as important as tracking is to you, but if they work in a fuckin walmart for $9.50/hour, then it is dumb even though they can strech out and spend that much. im not denying it is subjective, but im just saying in grand view of things, it is not the smartest thing to do unless all of you that track make some killer money. you see my point?"

80% of the people here probably spend more than that a month on beer and eating out....

10/13/2006 3:50:44 AM

its also financially dumb to have any fun what so ever...

in my best financial interests it would be beneficial for me to spend every waking hour @ work since i get paid hourly but where is the fun in that?

10/13/2006 7:00:35 AM

we could all drive geo metros to work and back and eat peanut butter sandwiches while we stare at a blank wall...

but we dont

10/13/2006 8:47:44 AM

just bought a set of V710s, chaching!

10/13/2006 9:47:33 AM

^^touche, but i think you know what im trying to say.

10/13/2006 9:49:30 AM

Wow what a big wall of text. Honestly, your finances are your problem but I fucking gaurantee you have some expense you could take out of your life to afford at least one track event if you really wanted to do. And if, by some weird chance, you absolutely can't spare any money to spend on someting you really want to do then maybe you should have a once over of your priority list.

The savings tidbit you dropped is fantastic, almost as good as baonests "learning experience" comment but in all honesty you can modestly save, afford a house, live well, and track a little bit throughout the year. Staying within ones means isn't as hard as you make it.

I also want to point out that no part of I440 or I540 approaches anything similar to a track experience. Onramps and offramps are fun for the two seconds they last but if you make a mistake anywhere going any decent amount of speed then you will have effectively payed two years worth of track events in insurance an attorney fees.

Autosport is insanely expensive. Ahmet likened it to cocaine, which isn't far of the mark.

10/13/2006 10:51:47 AM

you didn’t understand the context. the point is not about price per se. the point IS, track events are overpriced. i dont give a shit about the amount of learning experience you acquire. it is OVERPRICED for the amount of time you spend there. my comment on using I-440 should have included [/sarcasm] at the end.


[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 11:56 AM. Reason : f]

10/13/2006 11:46:23 AM

i think youre exactly backwards.

track events ARE fairly priced, but that doesnt not mean that they are affordable. The fact that every event around fills up and overflows onto waitinglists proves it.

10/13/2006 11:48:37 AM

that makes no sense whatsoever. just because something is visited or sold out implies it is affordable? im sure you will find plenty of BUSY restaurants in NYC that have $100+ entrees that are marginally better than texas steakhouse.

10/13/2006 11:55:19 AM

do you realize the liability they have because you're driving on their track?

its really not that bad of a price....

10/13/2006 12:16:18 PM

dont you sign a waiver?

10/13/2006 12:32:34 PM

you can still damage their equipment + all the medical staff etc.

10/13/2006 12:37:03 PM

Quote :

"just because something is visited or sold out implies it is affordable? "

read it again. i said it is fairly priced. i also said that that does NOT mean its affordable.

ie, the market dictates a fair price. affordability is a personal thing.

10/13/2006 1:08:26 PM

Actually no, its not that bad of a price. You're learning performance driving on a real racetrack and you're having a lot of fun doing it. Riding in an instructor's car alone for the first few times blows away any amusement park in the world and those cost anywhere from 20$ - 100$ to get in for a single day.

Look, if you don't like driving that much then fine. There's no point to this argument. If you like driving in the traditional sense of cruising around listening to your tunes or hitting up some back roads for a bit then fine, there's no point to this argument. However, if you really like driving hard then track events are the way to go. No, its not cheap, but nothing related to motorsport is.

10/13/2006 1:31:35 PM

i mean hell, owning a car is 'overpriced'. Gas + Car cost + Maintenance + Insurance (biggest scam of our lifetime). We should all just move to china and buy bicycles.

10/13/2006 2:40:15 PM

Bikes require machine oil DURRRRRR $$$$$$$$$$

RIDE THE BUS OK.

10/13/2006 2:46:14 PM

yeah but in china, the government pays for everything.

long live communism

10/13/2006 2:47:30 PM

^^^are you 12?

10/13/2006 3:00:17 PM

yes.

[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 3:01 PM. Reason : lets be 12 together]

10/13/2006 3:00:47 PM

I mean seriously man I understand your point and its an entirely valid one from your perspective but just judging by the cars in this crowd (BMW E30 , BMW E36 M3, Evo IX, Porsche 996, Integra R) you'd be crazy not to make the logical conclusion that indulging in our automotive habit does not seem crazy to us at all.

[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 3:35 PM. Reason : ^^]

10/13/2006 3:35:30 PM

i agree with you, but to put into perspective what im trying to say in this thread, ill give you an example. back in college, i was big into online MP gaming and all associated costs, such as buying $400 video cards, spending money on most expensive RAM, cooling solutions etc.

now, in retrospect, i realize how stupid it was to spend that much money (despite learning a lot about computer hardware and tech tidbits) on something that i now consider silly. i regret not investing that money into roth ira or spending on travel. i thought these tech things were overpriced then and i think they are overpriced now ($600 for top of the line graphic cards is absurd). in similar matter, i want to go to the track, but i stand behind my opinion that it is overpriced for what it offers. maybe it is far fetched, but to realize that for the price of full VIR weekend you can fly to Europe, tends to put things into perspective for me. that is not to say i dont like it or that im not dying to try it out, but sometimes you have limits, especially if money is coming out of my pocket. i hope that clarifies my stance.

anyhow, this thread is a roll call, so lets keep it that way. i've soap boxed it. sorry.

10/13/2006 4:35:33 PM

Quote :

"full VIR weekend you can fly to Europe"

ok, in the off season you can fly to say Germany for $400. However, the flying isn't the fun part. now that you've spent your VIR fund. what are you going to do in Europe for free and where are you going to stay?

10/13/2006 4:37:30 PM

you are missing the point. i can go ahead and split hairs now and tell you that it is $425+gas+2 nights in hotel + food+cost of tires, brakes, oil, and all other parts/fluids that you will consume. so it will be more.

but ok, lets scrape VIR for a second. take for example, skip barber 3-day school which will run you in the vinicity of $4k and above. for 4 grand you can do A LOT in europe. i personally have at least 4 different places in europe where i can stay for free. point is, it is overpriced, but that we already established from my side. i think it's time to end this.


[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 4:49 PM. Reason : f]

10/13/2006 4:47:57 PM

1in10^9 you are arguing the subjective worth of $$ to people - it's an unwinnable argument

10/13/2006 4:50:25 PM

no, im arguing it is overpriced. ive bought things that i wanted badly even though they were overpriced. now the argument went off topic...

10/13/2006 4:55:05 PM

the point is...its not overpriced...you may be thinking its out of your reach at the moment, which doesn't mean its overpriced.

10/13/2006 4:56:22 PM

Well, we aren't going to a skip barber school and we aren't paying $4k . I've already got an IRA, as well as two seperate market accounts seperate from 401k that automatically deduct from my pay. I could live far more frugally then I live now, and save everything else and retire ten years earlier then I might currently.

However, I choose not to live that way because I thoroughly enjoy my lifestyle now. You're basically trying to argue that what we're doing is worth the money, but really it isn't worth the money to you. We're perfectly happy spending what we do on this and in that case it really isn't overpriced. Three hundred dollars to drive on America's tracks with good instruction? That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

While on the topic of overpriced, I've been all of Europe, and the US and I regularly go to Turkey every year. I already know that every service in America is 'overpriced' when compared with the same service in Turkey (delivered, actually, by far more qualified people) but those services are completely irrelevent to me because I really have no access to them. My only reference point is whats available here and from that pool, the prices we pay are fair. Again, you may not think driving instruction and ~three hours of track time are worth 300$, but thats just relative opinion that most definitely does not stand in the context of this thread.

10/13/2006 4:58:46 PM

Quote :

" retire ten years earlier then I might currently"

plus you aren't garunteed to live that long anyway...so you may never get to spend the money you work for

10/13/2006 5:01:13 PM

Don't jinx me lol.

10/13/2006 5:52:48 PM

winning the hpde championship is worth every cent that i'll ever make

10/13/2006 7:21:25 PM

we racin b0'

you nigs argue all you want. ill be at lowes motor speedway tomorrow for some NASCAR b0'

oh and if you fags ever get a chance to drive on the speedway, DO IT. its nothing like a road course.

[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 8:14 PM. Reason : ]

10/13/2006 8:12:33 PM

I was going to argue on how it is "worth it", not to mention you don't endanger other people on public roads, but it looks like Engin and Mark have done that quite well. Brings a tear to my eyes.

I don't know that I'll be doing THSCC. Apparently NASA doesn't have instructor clinic opennings till March I will be in touch with you. I might go with THSCC as well as NASA, I'll wait till next weekend to decide (to see how I like Rockingham this year, and if oil bounces back). I know quite a few people that will be going with Tarheel though, and if you guys haven't run an event with them, I'd have to recommend it. They are usually quite well run, if not a bit conservative.
Ahmet

PS: I'm far from the first person to liken motorsports to hard drugs.

[Edited on October 13, 2006 at 8:34 PM. Reason : .]

10/13/2006 8:31:59 PM

^the best is when you mix hard drugs and motorsports.

10/13/2006 8:34:58 PM

Javol

10/13/2006 8:45:24 PM

Bratwurst, ja? Naturlich, Herr Direktor.
Ahmet

10/13/2006 9:48:26 PM

thats whats up! aight!

10/13/2006 9:49:15 PM

I'm gonna have to talk to your dad about this...
Ahmet

10/13/2006 9:50:40 PM

thanks, mr bank robber.

10/13/2006 9:51:18 PM

Hell yea, you're just tryin' to get paid.
Ahmet

10/13/2006 9:52:57 PM

i heard that

10/13/2006 10:23:33 PM

like my man fiddy says....

10/13/2006 10:30:49 PM

Quote :

"My only reference point is whats available here and from that pool, the prices we pay are fair."

you dont have a reference point if you only have one pool to choose from. you reference point is your only option, so it is hard to judge whether price is fair. they have exclusivity, so they slap your wallet at whatever price they feel like. they know it, and thats why they do it.
this is my last post here, for real...this has been beaten to death

10/13/2006 11:10:34 PM

Actually, there is a pool to choose from... I've done events with clubs, with a wide variety of prices. There's also "other" auto sports to pick from, rally x, auto x, time trials, club racing, hpdes, etc. IMO, the best "value" is HPDEs/time trials, but all are fun and worth trying if you can afford it. I don't think a pair of $150 sneakers are worth it, but $500 for a track weekend's a no brainer.
Ahmet

10/14/2006 4:34:52 PM

Quote :

"I don't think a pair of $150 sneakers are worth it"

yeah and you are still debating about the pair for $59

10/14/2006 4:47:10 PM

$150 for some sneakers... i nearly bought some for $39.99, but decided they were too much.

10/15/2006 9:36:12 PM

payless shoes?

10/15/2006 11:52:37 PM

nah, foot action clearance.

10/16/2006 12:08:01 AM

bump for an awesome day at rockingham.

can't wait to see pics

10/21/2006 8:58:05 PM