he might have caused it to begin with but the cops shouldn't have CONTINUED to taser him after he was already cuffed and kept saying "I'm not resisting!"

11/17/2006 12:42:24 AM

The best part is that there are no threads at http://www.partybruins.com about this yet....

11/17/2006 1:31:48 AM

^it's funny because there are tww people posting over there all over the place.

11/17/2006 1:39:24 AM

do you guys have any empirical evidence that shows all people can move after a few seconds of being tased? i have no experience with this, but the fact that i've read conflicting reports on this makes me think that there is still at least a possibility that he was unable to voluntarily remove himself after the first shock.

11/17/2006 1:39:43 AM

From the Taser website:

Quote :

"TASER weapons use a more powerful 18 to 26 watt electrical signal to completely override the central nervous system and directly control the skeletal muscles. This effect causes an uncontrollable contraction of the muscle tissue, allowing the M-Series to physically debilitate a target regardless of pain tolerance or mental focus. The ADVANCED TASER® M-Series are weapons specifically designed to stop even the most elite, aggressive, focused combatants. Rather than simply interfering with communication between the brain and muscles, the ADVANCED TASER® systems directly tell the muscles what to do: contract until the target is in the fetal position on the ground. The ADVANCED TASER® provides for maximum safety for both the officer and the subject by bringing dangerous situations quickly under control before force escalates to lethal.."

However a journal review reads:

Quote :

"Those three seconds lasted longer than any three seconds of my life, as every muscle on my right side seized up, trembling and spasming as the current flowed through me. I shuddered but couldn’t move. The two men propped me up, allowing me at least some dignity so I didn’t flop to the floor and writhe. And then, the three seconds were up. I bent over to catch my breath, my head spinning for a second. Then I straightened up. The muscles relaxed, the pain was gone, and I was all right. Those three seconds were the worst pain I’ve ever experienced, worse than the times I have been shocked while working with my electrician father. There was no lingering pain, no muscle cramps, just the two sad red marks left to remind me of what I experienced."

And from the following site:

http://www.espionageinfo.com/Sp-Te/Taser.html

Quote :

"Once the electrical swamping of the nerve impulses has abated—within a few seconds to a minute—recovery is complete with no adverse effects."

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 2:10 AM. Reason : ]

11/17/2006 2:05:42 AM

Oh and do a google search on Andrew Washington from Vallejo. From reading news reports, he "fled from police after a minor accident in which he struck a parked car."

http://www.aclu.org/police/abuse/19977prs20051006.html

Quote :

"Even more disturbing is the finding that only four departments restrict the number of times an officer may fire a Taser at a suspect. Several of the California victims were stunned with Tasers repeatedly before they died, including Andrew Washington of Vallejo, who was Tased 17 times in three minutes."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/03/01/BAG0GBI7MC1.DTL

Quote :

"Andrew Washington Sr. died Sept. 16 after fleeing police following a minor accident in which he struck a parked car. Officers chasing him on foot fired a Taser at Washington as he climbed a fence, causing him to collapse into a shallow canal. Police then zapped him about five more times "because when the Taser was not on, Washington appeared to be trying to crawl away,'' according to a coroner's report. Officers noticed the man was having trouble breathing and called an ambulance, but he was later pronounced dead at a hospital. "

I guess he "deserved" it too, right?

11/17/2006 2:15:07 AM

no sympathy...shouldn't have made a stupid decision...dumbfuck...

ya got what was coming, should've been smarter

11/17/2006 2:24:10 AM

Y'all have it wrong.

Quote :

"Mostafa Tabatabainejad"

They guy was from IRAN.

This is obviously the beginning of Bush's policy of pre-emption against Iran.

How could you be so dumb and not see that??? I mean, he is practically Ahmedinejad's cousin or nephew or something!

11/17/2006 6:54:51 AM

Quote :

"I guess he "deserved" it too, right?"

Um, no. You are now acting like all tasing incidents are exactly the same. What is your point with this, really?

Quote :

"he might have caused it to begin with but the cops shouldn't have CONTINUED to taser him after he was already cuffed and kept saying "I'm not resisting!""

Because you could clearly see that he actually wasn't resisting in that video, right? Just cuz he was saying that doesnt mean anything. Have you ever watched cops? I've watched people say stuff like that as they're reaching for a cops gun. It means nothing.

11/17/2006 7:08:13 AM

Quote :

"The two cops couldn't drag him from his shoulders as they are seen doing at points in the video?"

Sure, and when they dragged him down a flight of stairs and across some concrete and dislocated his shoulder and busted up his knees no one would think that was brutality right?

Quote :

"You must be watching a different video. Because I see an (most likely) adrenaline jacked up (most definitely) ego tripping cop walking back in with an "i just fucked someone up and looking for more" look on his face and found the first kid that confronted him and told him he was going to get tasered, too."

Yeah, you're definately watching a different video. The kid that was told he was going to be tased too was in the cops faces since they moved out into the hall.

Quote :

"They were trying to control a crowd? Why didn't they get the fuck out of the building once they took their boy out if they were concerned about their safety? Gimme a break, are you really this clueless?"

Because that still doesn't solve the issue of controling the crowd.

Quote :

"Bull shit. If cops tasered every person who didn't have an ID (much less, a STUDENT ID) on them, you'd see like 50 people tasered each day at a University. 99% of the time the person without an ID in the library is either a student just being a bitch or some bum who wandered in there, and you'd have to be fucking retarded to not know the difference. "

But they didn't taser him because he didn't have ID. They tasered him because he refused to show ID, and then refused to leave when asked, thus he was trespassing, and then resisted officers attempts to peacefully remove him from the premises. Do you not see the difference between not having your ID and trespassing and resisting lawful orders?

And personaly the way he was railing on, I'm not sure I'd want to try and man handle him until I knew he was incapacited, he sounds like he's fucked up in the head as is. And given how the whole situation happened, I'm sure he would have cooperated just nicely to being handcuffed and dragged out and wouldn't have fought at all would he? Not like the 4 chances he had before they tasered him the 5th time and he finaly learned to quit being a dick.

Quote :

"Replace the taser with them using mace on the kid 3 times, would that have been okay? Replace the mace with them beating the kid with batons, would that have been okay? Replace the batons with them shooting the kid, would that have been okay?"

The reason they used the taser is because a taser sucks a whole lot less than being maced, beat with a baton or being shot. Before tasers he would have gotten one of the above. The whole purpose of the taser is to apply compliance force without having to beat the crap out of the kid or make his life a living hell for the next half hour to an hour or until they can get him to a sink.

Quote :

"Cuffed him after he went limp, carried him out. -If tasering was necessary, taser him once. He wasn't resisting afterwards (going LIMP does not equal resisting, it poses no risk to the officer whatsoever and is just an invoncenience). the kid even said, "I'm not resisting, I'm not resisting" and they continued to taser him. "

Going limp IS resistingand makes you a danger to yourself and the officers. By going limp you are requiring the officers to apply more force than should be neccesary to remove you from the building, which could lead to broken bones, dislocated joints, falling and even worse entaglements. If you are capable of moving under your own power, doing anything to prevent the officers from removing you is resisting. Furthermore, just because you're limp now doesn't mean you won't decide to start kicking and fighting half way down the flight of stairs, and when the officers let go and you go head over heals down a flight of stairs I'm sure you won't complain or sue at all.

Quote :

"I mean, if a suspect goes unconscious, does that mean they get to taser them for resisting arrest?"

No, he's unconscious, not resisting. Please to understand english before continuing with your inane arguments.

Quote :

"So, what if they didn't have tasers and they punched him into submission, would that have been okay?"

The point is, moron, that the taser is designed to be better than beating him into submission. IOW taser != beating into submission.

Quote :

"He only needed to be tased once. I mean if you listen to it the kid was crying after the first taser. He wasn't going to do anything to harm them, he was no danger to them at all, and they knew it. The fact they tased him two more times (maybe more I dont know) is just ridiculous and is excessive force."

The kid was railing on and still actively resisting. All the while the officers are trying to help him off the floor, telling him to stand up and he's telling them to fuck off. They gave him at least 30 seconds between each tase to stop being a bitch and be cooperative and each time he resisted. Amazing to me that after 5 times and screaming how he can't get up he magages to leave with officer assistance after the 5th. Maybe that 5th jolt finaly got his legs working? Or maybe he was being a bitch and trying to see how far he could get and then realized after 5 tasings that "oh shit, I'm actualy in trouble now".

Quote :

"Because you could clearly see that he actually wasn't resisting in that video, right? Just cuz he was saying that doesnt mean anything. Have you ever watched cops? I've watched people say stuff like that as they're reaching for a cops gun. It means nothing."

Yeah, people yelling "I'm not resisting" usualy has as much truth to it as the child molester saying "everything is OK"

11/17/2006 8:40:50 AM

Quote :

"going LIMP does not equal resisting"

Yeah it is. Any 4 year old knows this; your mom wants you to go somewhere, you don't, so you fall limp and refuse to move. I think that is resisting.

11/17/2006 9:28:43 AM

I agree. Going Limp is resisting.

Why else did he do it the first time (before any tasing) It was because he was resisting his removal.

11/17/2006 9:56:09 AM

There are no innocent parties in this ordeal. It's going to come down to who is more culpable. Excessive police brutality is a pretty hot topic. Should be interesting to see what develops.

11/17/2006 9:58:51 AM

Quote :

"Sure, and when they dragged him down a flight of stairs and across some concrete and dislocated his shoulder and busted up his knees no one would think that was brutality right?"

No one ever died from being carried out by the shoulders. And I guess maybe that building didn't have elevators. And besides, your most extreme example of "possible" problems doesn't really stand on it's on two legs. This kid looked about a buck o' five. I don't think two beastly cops would have to much trouble carting him out.

Quote :

"Yeah, you're definately watching a different video. The kid that was told he was going to be tased too was in the cops faces since they moved out into the hall."

That kid was in the little asian cops face the whole time, then the white ego cop came in trying to cock out with everyone.

Quote :

"Because that still doesn't solve the issue of controling the crowd."

Didn't look like a crowd needed controlling to me. Just some concerned kids standing around talking in raised voices as the civil rights of another American were being violated.

Quote :

"The reason they used the taser is because a taser sucks a whole lot less than being maced, beat with a baton or being shot."

Really, being tased 5 times is better than being pinned down by a couple of cops (baton to the back of the neck) and cuffed? Sounds like you are the delusional one.

Quote :

"Going limp IS resistingand makes you a danger to yourself and the officers. By going limp you are requiring the officers to apply more force than should be necessary to remove you from the building, which could lead to broken bones, dislocated joints, falling and even worse entanglements."

Here you are making stuff up to prove a point. Are you really this hell bent on making the point that you are saying going limp and not resisting is in fact resisting? I suppose an irate Terri Schiavo is indeed a danger to herself and everyone around her.

Quote :

"Furthermore, just because you're limp now doesn't mean you won't decide to start kicking and fighting half way down the flight of stairs, and when the officers let go and you go head over heals down a flight of stairs I'm sure you won't complain or sue at all"

I think a court case where an individual goes nuts while traversing a flight of stairs and the cops can't keep him from tumbling head over heels has less merits than the one where they tased him multiple times while not resisting. Again, stop making up bs.

Quote :

"The point is, moron, that the taser is designed to be better than beating him into submission. IOW taser != beating into submission."

Yea, it is designed to do that, but not when used irresponsibly, as was done in this case.

11/17/2006 9:59:04 AM

Quote :

"an irate Terri Schiavo is indeed a danger to herself and everyone around her"

11/17/2006 10:11:40 AM

Quote :

"This kid looked about a buck o' five. I don't think two beastly cops would have to much trouble carting him out."

Bruce Lee says your argument holds no water.

11/17/2006 10:16:19 AM

Quote :

"Amazing to me that after 5 times and screaming how he can't get up he magages to leave with officer assistance after the 5th."

actually if you saw the video carefully after the 5th taser he left with an officer on either side of him carrying him because he couldn't move his legs

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 10:17 AM. Reason : s]

11/17/2006 10:17:44 AM

Or wouldn't move his legs.

11/17/2006 10:19:04 AM

Quote :

"Bruce Lee says your argument holds no water."

Computer nerds everywhere (like this guy) says it does. Have some common sense. Not everything reduces to nice little roberts rules arguments.

11/17/2006 10:30:20 AM

the entire argument on either side depends on how far incapacitated the student was after the tasings... if he physically couldn't move, then the police are fucked... if he could move, then the student is SOL. the fact that he's saying "i'm not resisiting" is evidence to show that he wasn't resisting, but going limp and not obeying commands is also evidence to show that he was resisting. so it really boils down to if a jury would believe that you wouldn't be able to move after being tased a couple times. and if i were uc regents, i'm not going to gamble a couple million dollars on 12 average americans...

11/17/2006 10:30:26 AM

Quote :

"Computer nerds everywhere (like this guy) says it does. Have some common sense. Not everything reduces to nice little roberts rules arguments."

Wait, you're trolling me for using Robert's Rules in the Lounge Poker thread?

And BTW, I wouldn't always stake my life on being able to beat up a nerd. Even if you get by with it almost every time, one day you'll be beaten down by the nerd with martial arts training.

11/17/2006 10:47:52 AM

Quote :

"And BTW, I wouldn't always stake my life on being able to beat up a nerd. Even if you get by with it almost every time, one day you'll be beaten down by the nerd with martial arts training."

You're also not one of what, 5-8 cops, wielding guns, batons, and a taser, and have already subdued the guy once. He was clearly not a threat and could have been carted out like the bitch he was. Like I said, mindlessly following "procedure" that is essentially still rooted in not clear cut decisions that have to be made is how civil liberties get violated.

11/17/2006 10:55:38 AM

Say hello to my little friend.

11/17/2006 11:11:48 AM

Quote :

"No one ever died from being carried out by the shoulders."

I bet you I could find a case. In the mean time, they have certainly suffered broken bones, dislocated joints and severe injuries.

Quote :

"And I guess maybe that building didn't have elevators. And besides, your most extreme example of "possible" problems doesn't really stand on it's on two legs. This kid looked about a buck o' five. I don't think two beastly cops would have to much trouble carting him out."

What makes the example most extreme? Being physically hauled out of somewhere by your arms can easily dislocate a shoulder and if he wasn't walking, most certainly his knees would get beat up pretty bad from being dragged.

And your assertation about the cops having no trouble indicates youve never actualy tried to restrain someone who didn't want to be restrained.

Quote :

"Didn't look like a crowd needed controlling to me. Just some concerned kids standing around talking in raised voices as the civil rights of another American were being violated."

A bunch of angry students crowding the officers is a crowd that needs controlling. You have no more right to violate a cops personal space than you do anyone elses. When someone tells you to back off, you back off or you are comitting assault.

Quote :

"Really, being tased 5 times is better than being pinned down by a couple of cops (baton to the back of the neck) and cuffed? Sounds like you are the delusional one."

See the other recent video from LA to find out how much fun being pinned down by a couple of cops is (hint, I'd take being tased any day. Or even better, I wouldn't take either because I wouldn't be a stupid idiot). And you're a moron if you think this kid was going to lay down peacefully while cops cuffed him.

Quote :

"Here you are making stuff up to prove a point. Are you really this hell bent on making the point that you are saying going limp and not resisting is in fact resisting? "

Quote :

"re·sist (r-zst) Pronunciation Key v. re·sist·ed, re·sist·ing, re·sists v. tr. To strive to fend off or offset the actions, effects, or force of. To remain firm against the actions, effects, or force of; withstand: a bacterium that resisted the antibiotic. To keep from giving in to or enjoying."

And yes, actively doing things to prevent an officer from carrying out their duty is resisting. And going limp is an active action when you are capable of moving under your own power.

Quote :

"Yea, it is designed to do that, but not when used irresponsibly, as was done in this case."

I don't know, all the reports say he's walking around just fine. Sounds like the taser was indeed better than beating him into submission.

Quote :

"actually if you saw the video carefully after the 5th taser he left with an officer on either side of him carrying him because he couldn't move his legs "

I'm going to go with wouldn't move his legs. He sure as hell could move them when he kicked them into the air earlier.

11/17/2006 11:14:01 AM

Quote :

"I bet you I could find a case. In the mean time, they have certainly suffered broken bones, dislocated joints and severe injuries."

Quote :

"What makes the example most extreme? Being physically hauled out of somewhere by your arms can easily dislocate a shoulder and if he wasn't walking, most certainly his knees would get beat up pretty bad from being dragged"

Here, let me restate it in clearly terms since you are so hell bent on taking the extremes to prove a point. No one that was lying limp on the floor and not violently and confrontational-ly resisting arrest died from being cuffed and carried out. I've rafted, I know that trying to yank someone in a boat can dislocate shoulders. Carrying this kid out under each armpit was most likely not going to break his shoulders. Furthermore, had they just pinned him, and cuffed him, there is a good chance that he would have eventually calmed down enough and walked out on his own. We don't know for sure, because the situation got escalated too quickly.

Quote :

"And your assertation about the cops having no trouble indicates youve never actualy tried to restrain someone who didn't want to be restrained"

I've been in plenty of fights where a few of us restrained some folks pretty easily (from those getting the shit kicked out of them to those doing the kicking). One pussy nerd that is sitting there being a little bitch isn't much of a match for five cops trained in the art of submission tactics.

Are you trolling?

Quote :

"A bunch of angry students crowding the officers is a crowd that needs controlling. You have no more right to violate a cops personal space than you do anyone elses. When someone tells you to back off, you back off or you are comitting assault"

3-4 angry kids of 50 is not a bunch. And I didn't once see the Asian cop tell anyone to back off, he seemed to be handling the situation quite well. Did you watch the same video? How many more times are you going to completely fabricate shit to prove a point?

Quote :

"See the other recent video from LA to find out how much fun being pinned down by a couple of cops is (hint, I'd take being tased any day. Or even better, I wouldn't take either because I wouldn't be a stupid idiot). And you're a moron if you think this kid was going to lay down peacefully while cops cuffed him."

Two complete different scenarios, thanks for trying though.

Quote :

"I don't know, all the reports say he's walking around just fine. Sounds like the taser was indeed better than beating him into submission."

No one is claiming he needed to be beaten into submission. Way to go guy, take the extreme again. You look like a clown.

Quote :

"I'm going to go with wouldn't move his legs. He sure as hell could move them when he kicked them into the air earlier."

Wait, so if they were going to carry him out like this anyway, why did he need to be tased 4 more times?

11/17/2006 11:26:31 AM

Quote :

"When someone tells you to back off, you back off or you are comitting assault."

not true...

Quote :

" I'm going to go with wouldn't move his legs. He sure as hell could move them when he kicked them into the air earlier."

or it could be the electrical current from the taser causing him to move his muscles involuntarily....



but i do agree, going limp is actively resisting arrest...

11/17/2006 11:58:17 AM

Ahh authority . . . I have a primal aversion to it, but an intellectual appreciation for its necissity. The exact reason that we do live in the democratic republic that we do is the fact that we are a nation of laws. If this guy failed to obey them, then he should expect to face some sort of consequences.

Police procedure is, well . . . procedure, because it covers the widest range of possibilites that an officer will face. Procedure allows a cop to execute the law within a agreed upon set of parameters close to instictively in a potentially high stress environment. That does not dismiss the requirement of the cops to assess each situation differently.

All that being said, "peaceful crowds" can turn nasty very quicky, and though the police are better armed / trained, the mob has chaos on its side. Each of those officers is responsible for his personal weapon as well as the safety of other bystanders so I have no objection to him threatening to tase students who are interfering with him doing his job. Furthermore, the cops HAVE to maintain control of this situation, that is their job. Being outnumbered, like it or not, their trump card is the application of force.

Should old boy here have been tased once? Maybe. As many times as he was? Probably not. "Officer Safety" is a hard argument here. If they already have him on the ground, then cuff him and tote him out. Firearms are hard to access when you're handcuffed. If its a bomb they fear, well then I need not mention the danger of applying an electrical implulse near an explosive device.

Lets be honest, you can't see a whole lot in this crappy cell phone video. Dude decided to make a scene, something was going to go down and somebody was going to whine about it. This is not a cut and dried event.

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2006 11:59:57 AM

is it standard procedure to hit someone with the taser and then immediately command them to stand up or be tased again?

11/17/2006 12:30:44 PM

yes, bonus points if you tell them before they hit the floor.

11/17/2006 12:32:39 PM

I think I'm going to reiterate my point here, which is this:

In my personal opinion, the reason that a police officer would need to use continued extreme force (e.g. tasering) on a subject is only if the subject was putting up a violent assault OR was a threat to the officer (like if he was holding a weapon).

In this situation, after the kid was hit once, he was down. It was clear he was down. It's an officer's responsibility to attempt to difuse a situation and not to escalate it. Was the kid struggling a bit? Sure. But he was no threat to the officers. He was already handcuffed and the officers had a man and weight advantage over him. Looking at the video, the kid doesn't seem over 130lbs. If he was a 250+ lb. bouncer? Maybe I'd be talking differently about this situation, but he wasn't. By choosing to taser the kid multiple times, especially while in front of a crowd of fellow students, they were simply asking for trouble. This COULD have gotten a lot worse, and there were enough students there to where if they wanted to riot and attack the officers, they could have. If the officer's say, "Oh well I thought our lives were in danger" they are lying. There was no real danger, especially AFTER the kid was cuffed and on the ground writhing in pain after the first 50000 volts went through his body. They could have sat there with a knee on the kid's back for 5 minutes until he calmed down and agreed to walk out. What harm would have come in that?

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 12:38 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2006 12:34:32 PM

Yeah the initial tasing was not necessarily a big deal IMO (Depending upon what happened), but the repeated tasing of a cuffed non-combative individual is unnecessary.

While he *may* have resisted arrest by not moving (And nobody in here can be certain of that), he also did not seem to fight back in any real way. I don't think repeated applications of force are necessary at that point.

One question I did have is:

Are police officers required to give their name and/or badge numbers to people who are "peacefully" requesting them (After they have the suspect locked in their vehicle or whatever)?

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2006 12:42:36 PM

You want my badge number?

HERE, Here's my freakin' badge number!

*smacks you with badge*

11/17/2006 12:47:35 PM

why do they keep shocking him and then telling him to stand up? Its like breaking a guy's nose and then telling him to quit bleeding, or you'll keep punching him.

11/17/2006 5:21:34 PM

I can't tell from the video I've seen how I feel about this incident, but I am forced to wonder...

How many arrests/detentions/etc. would look equally bad from an outside perspective? Could it be, just maybe, that people are averse to seeing physical exertion against a suspect?

It's just a thought, not necessarily my position. Obviously there are cases where the police abuse their power. But I would be interested to see a study where you showed people a bunch of videos of arrests, some which don't meet the legal definition of brutality, and see what they think it is.

11/17/2006 8:59:38 PM

Quote :

"why do they keep shocking him and then telling him to stand up? "

Because when the taser stops, your muscles come back under your comtrol, and they were helping him up so it's not like he needed all his strength. Do a search on youtube for taser videos or ask anyone you know in law enforcement who carries a taser (they've all taken a ride), the effects are only as long as the taser is on.

11/17/2006 9:21:31 PM

I hope someone bombs the houses of the cops.

11/17/2006 10:26:35 PM

I hope you get herpes...

11/17/2006 10:31:38 PM

Quote :

"How many arrests/detentions/etc. would look equally bad from an outside perspective? Could it be, just maybe, that people are averse to seeing physical exertion against a suspect?"

You can tune in to Cops daily and see them rough handling folks that have ran from them. Those guys get roughed up pretty good with knees right to the back of the neck, arms yanked around, etc. And those guys most definitely did deserve it and I don't cringe one bit when I see it. But this kid, probably coddled from day 0 by his mommy, and obviously not a threat to anyone but himself, didn't deserve anything after the first shot, if that.

It's not that he got tased. It is that he got tased at least 4 times unnecessarily.

11/17/2006 10:35:41 PM

More articles:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ucla17nov17,1,1813095.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061117/ap_on_re_us/student_stunned

Choice quotes:

Quote :

"Attorney Stephen Yagman said he plans to file a federal civil rights lawsuit accusing the UCLA police of "brutal excessive force," as well as false arrest"

Quote :

"He said that Tabatabainejad, when asked for his ID after 11 p.m. Tuesday, declined because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance. "

Quote :

"The lawyer said Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but when an officer refused the student's request to take his hand off him, the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling. "

No mention of his "medical condition" I guess it wasn't important enough to be part of his legal defense.

11/18/2006 12:05:36 AM

Quote :

"You can tune in to Cops daily and see them rough handling folks that have ran from them. Those guys get roughed up pretty good with knees right to the back of the neck, arms yanked around, etc. And those guys most definitely did deserve it and I don't cringe one bit when I see it. But this kid, probably coddled from day 0 by his mommy, and obviously not a threat to anyone but himself, didn't deserve anything after the first shot, if that. "

Exactly. This is a college campus, and the guy was probably a college-looking kid. There was no reason for them to treat him like they did.

11/18/2006 1:00:05 AM

Quote :

"during a random check at around 11:30 p.m."

wait, this was just 30 minutes past 11, and the shit was "RANDOM". yeah right, as random as his fucking appearance. they singled this motherfucker out, you fucking know it.

i'm just a macaca, so i'm pretty docile - you know cause my people a vegetarian pacificts and all - so when i get singled out by being mistaken for one of them, i always cooperate and i always try to carry two forms of ID.

i knew i had to watch my ass around your typical cave dwellings, but now i've got to deal with this shit in institutions of higher learning too.

you fucking low IQ neanderthals know nothing but violence. no wonder facism comes so naturally to you.

11/20/2006 1:50:03 AM

Or it could actually be a random check that they perform throughout the night as has been stated in multiple articles.

11/20/2006 8:00:02 AM

Yea, a check to make sure none of the middle eastern looking folks are random.

11/20/2006 8:13:43 AM

So, just a question...do you guys think that middle eastern people can EVER be stopped in a random check? I mean, if they said that they had checked 20 IDs before they asked him, would you still be all like "They only checked those 19 white people so they could harass the middle eastern guy!"?

11/20/2006 8:28:08 AM

i'm just all pissy because i hate the fact that they look like me...

11/20/2006 11:39:21 AM

just because he thought he was being singled out due to his race does not give him a defense or justification for not providing his identification. it was a legal request, and the student refused....

11/20/2006 11:37:40 PM

wow there are some realllllllly fucked up comments in this thread
first of all, these cops should be fired, sued and then kicked to the curb.

NC State student senate a few weeks ago passed a bill NOT requiring kids to have ID at all times for situations JUST LIKE THIS.

Quote :

"He is responsible for getting cuffed and getting drug out through the front doors and dumped on his ass. Was there anything about that pussies voice that said "I'm a threat and need to be tazed 7 times?""

thats a great point...the kid was cuffed, what do you want him to do
you say well he was resisting arrest...ok thats fine pin him down and cuff him and take him out at what point does TAZING the kid become a good idea unless he has a weapon or is harming another officer

why not just arrest him and take him out

"well he wouldnt stand up when they told him to"
so what, if i was gettin tazed I dont think id want to do much either but much less why couldnt they TOTE him out of the place since he already had cuffs on?

Quote :

"It seems to come down to whether you believe the reports that he was in the process of leaving, or if you believe that he was refusing to leave."

no it doesnt, it comes down to them tazing him while he was handcuffed...what the hell is up with that? and it also comes down to them threatening to taze another student for defending this kid in his state, obviously if he had done something wrong I dont think the other kids would be standing up for him like they were trying to do you??

Quote :

"Sure, and when they dragged him down a flight of stairs and across some concrete and dislocated his shoulder and busted up his knees no one would think that was brutality right?"

uhmm hello pick up his legs, what a dumbass comment that is...there are TONS of ways to get around what they did, wheel chair, stretcher...anything is better than TAZING him to the point he is crying and cant stand.

Quote :

"The reason they used the taser is because a taser sucks a whole lot less than being maced, beat with a baton or being shot. Before tasers he would have gotten one of the above. The whole purpose of the taser is to apply compliance force without having to beat the crap out of the kid or make his life a living hell for the next half hour to an hour or until they can get him to a sink."

why was the tazer even needed though? can you tell me that? what REAL threat did this kid show that he couldnt have been handcuffed and taken out? are you telling me they couldnt get close enough to catch him without injury? ok well you do know that this is a hand held device and they would need to be close enough to grab him anyways to use it. why was it even needed?

Quote :

"Going limp IS resisting and makes you a danger to yourself "

Quote :

"No, he's unconscious, not resisting"

so they probably had the medical authority to be able to tell the difference between someone acting unconscious and going limp and them actually BEING unconscious right?
please

Quote :

"the effects are only as long as the taser is on."

have you ever been hit with one? i doubt it...but i have, many times on my own and it HURTS and its not just the initial electricity its the after sensation that hurts jsut as bad, its like having a cramp all in that muscle it completely contracts...it BURNS for many many minutes afterwards and can even scar your skin...

the other thing, what if this kid had a pacemaker?? it could throw off his life beat.
the tazer was in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEEDED in this scenario now was it? truthfully tell me it was.

as for the racial aspect, it happens alot and we dont know what happened prior to what was on the video...that may come into play a little but the point here is

put yourself in this kids shoes, say u are black or middle eastern and get looked at constantly profiled...now do you REALLY think that TAZING the kid was the best answer here when it looks like they could have simply cuffed him and carried him out, be it on a cart or in their arms if he didnt want to walk. There was absolutely no need for this tazing and the approach that was taken much less the threats that the other officers were handing out. I can tell you if this was me I would sue sue sue and if I was a kid seeing this happen I would NOT think twice about jumping in after they had him cuffed and were still continuing to taze him

people have rights, we arent livestock and farmers with cattle prods. grow up guys and have some respect for civil rights and personal well being.

This was wrong and you know it.

11/21/2006 1:13:12 AM

I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT HOW FUCKING PATHETIC 1337 b4k4 IS.

Seriously, what's the deal? Did b4k4 make his decision against what everyone else was saying just so he could be contrary and badass? Is he a failed cop who was threatened by a dude in a library?

I watched that video, and swear to goodness, I thought it was a play. It was so fucking classic that I thought it had to be scripted. Maybe it was. But...

"Eh, the kid deserved it" counts b4kbitch out of this thread. He needs to shut it.

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 1:39 AM. Reason : ?]

11/21/2006 1:37:38 AM

Quote :

"I watched that video, and swear to goodness, I thought it was a play. It was so fucking classic that I thought it had to be scripted. Maybe it was. But..."

That's my point. The kid is acting the entire time. Sure the pain he felt was real, but he's purposefuly making a scene and purposefuly making things worse on himself and the officers involved. Why is it that you are so quick to jump on a lousy video with no real content and just the audio of the kid screaming like a bitch?

Quote :

"ok thats fine pin him down and cuff him and take him out at what point does TAZING the kid become a good idea unless he has a weapon or is harming another officer"

When the taser is used as they used it. In drive stun according to just about every report on it, a taser delivers localized pain rather than disabling the muscles in the body. IOW it's pain compliance, much like twisting his arm, but less of a chance of causing lasting injury.

Quote :

"no it doesnt, it comes down to them tazing him while he was handcuffed...what the hell is up with that? and it also comes down to them threatening to taze another student for defending this kid in his state, obviously"

Because he was still resisting. Pain compliance again. Like beating him, or using preassure points it's all design to get him to stop what he's doing and do what he's supposed to be doing. As for the other student, he was getting in the officer's face. Standing up for the other student is all well and good, but it needs to be done at an appropriate time, not in the middle of an arrest.

Quote :

" if he had done something wrong I dont think the other kids would be standing up for him like they were trying to do you?? "

Depends, do you think officers would stand up for others even if they had done something wrong? Why are over privalaged kids at UCLA any different? These are college kids, a quick look around this forum alone shows how many college kids think the police are only there to harrass them and fuck them over.

Quote :

"uhmm hello pick up his legs, what a dumbass comment that is...there are TONS of ways to get around what they did, wheel chair, stretcher..."

Or they can zap his ass till he decides to stop being a fucking idiot and stand up, like he does at the end of the video.

Quote :

"why was the tazer even needed though? can you tell me that? "

Becuase it's a safe and effective force that can be applied without risk of serious injury.

Quote :

"are you telling me they couldnt get close enough to catch him without injury? ok well you do know that this is a hand held device and they would need to be close enough to grab him anyways to use it. why was it even needed?"

Because it can be applied without entagling an officer. Getting into a physical fighting match with this kid is more dangerous to his health than a few thousand volts.

Quote :

"so they probably had the medical authority to be able to tell the difference between someone acting unconscious and going limp and them actually BEING unconscious right? please"

Allow me to show you the ammount of medical training neccesary for this instance:

Limp person screaming and whining like a bitch and telling the police to fuck off and actively pulling away from them and grabbing on to surrounding furniture to keep them from taking him away is NOT an unconcious person.

Quote :

"but i have, many times on my own and it HURTS and its not just the initial electricity its the after sensation that hurts jsut as bad, its like having a cramp all in that muscle it completely contracts...it BURNS for many many minutes afterwards and can even scar your skin..."

Odd that you're the only person I know who's said this.

Quote :

"the other thing, what if this kid had a pacemaker?? it could throw off his life beat. the tazer was in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEEDED in this scenario now was it? truthfully tell me it was."

But he didn't so it's irellevant, as I'm sure someone with a pacemaker isn't stupid enough to fight the police.

Quote :

"put yourself in this kids shoes, say u are black or middle eastern and get looked at constantly profiled..."

Then I wouldn't be fighting the police in the middle of a library that I have no right to be at when I've been trespassing for the last 15-20 minutes.

Quote :

"if I was a kid seeing this happen I would NOT think twice about jumping in after they had him cuffed and were still continuing to taze him"

And you would likely wind up arrested, and in jail for assaulting an officer and obstruction of a lawful arrest.

Quote :

"people have rights, we arent livestock and farmers with cattle prods. grow up guys and have some respect for civil rights and personal well being. "

Right. People have rights, that includes cops. The cops have a right to use the ammount of force neccesary based on their force continuum to remove the trespasser from the premises in the way they deem most safe to their own health as well as the kids.


A little more since people won't listen to me, they might listen to the LA press:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-taser18nov18,0,5348791,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Quote :

"UCLA Police Chief Karl Ross said the officers decided to use the Taser to incapacitate Tabatabainejad after he went limp while they were escorting him out and urged other library patrons to join his resistance. Mavrick Goodrich, a chemical engineering major who observed the incident, said Tabatabainejad shouted, "Am I the only martyr?""

Quote :

"But UCLA police are allowed to use Tasers on passive resisters as "a pain compliance technique," Assistant Chief Jeff Young said in an interview Friday. Under UCLA policy, Young said, officers can use the weapons after considering the potential injury to police and to the individual as well as the level of resistance and the need for prompt resolution."

Quote :

""He was 200 pounds and went limp and was very hard to manage. They were trying to get him on his feet," Young said."

Quote :

"The officers used the device in stun mode — which affects only the part of the body being touched — rather than the dart mode, in which tiny electrodes are fired into a person and pass a current through them, disabling the person entirely."

And though most of you probably won't believe it despite the fact that both were interviewed by the BBC for the incident, two eye witnesses here counter a lot of the "peaceful resistance" image being portrayed:

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336&page=1&pp=10

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 9:19 AM. Reason : more]

11/21/2006 9:01:54 AM

Quote :

"Becuase it's a safe and effective force that can be applied without risk of serious injury."

It's safe except for when it kills people.

11/21/2006 9:16:35 AM