Quote :

"So is the idea that we, as people, know who is going to hell."

Technically, the church would say that only God can know the contents of peoples' hearts and minds. But in most cases, yes. It's a fundamental Christian belief that you have to accept Jesus while you're alive to go to Heaven.

1/3/2007 3:24:49 PM

Let me fix that for you.

It's a Fundamentalist Christian belief that you have to accept Jesus while you're alive to go to Heaven.


There, now we can agree!

1/3/2007 3:46:24 PM

Can the religious debate go somewhere else??? I'm looking for suggestions/stories about how to have a relationship *without* the debate.

1/3/2007 6:56:57 PM

...do not work.

Unless one of you is more fluid about his/her belief system, you're asking for trouble. You think it won't be an issue and then wham, some unexpected conversation leads to a big fall out.

Quote :

"Sometimes dating someone of another religion will give you an opportunity to explore what is out there and may even end up changing your mind about what you believe (what occurred with my husband)."

If this ever happens to me, someone please slap me for not having any sense of conviction. Religion, if you believe in it, shouldn't be so interchangable that you can easily jump from one to another.

1/3/2007 7:06:13 PM

Agreed

Before that she stated

Quote :

"As far as I know now, he believes in God now, but we don't really talk about it much."

so he could still be an Atheist.

1/3/2007 7:10:39 PM

Hey buddy.

1/3/2007 7:42:50 PM

It can work, depending on how laissez-faire both parties are. My boyfriend is a theist, although he doesn't fit into any specific category like Christian, Muslim, etc. I am an agnostic atheist.

It's not a problem now nor would it be if we got married or had kids. Both of us think that religion or lack thereof is to be decided by the individual, so the individual should be exposed to different viewpoints to best mold his own.

Quote :

"Because a man can accept he who believes differently, does not mean that he lacks conviction; rather, he has enough conviction in his own beliefs to know that no one else can change them."

1/3/2007 7:59:51 PM

Hey buddy?

What is an agnostic atheist?

1/3/2007 8:07:07 PM

1) I don't think that the existence of gods is a matter of belief; hence, I cannot believe in them and am an atheist.
2) I think that gods do exist, but due to my thoughts on their nature, I think their role in my life is minimal/nonexistent and am an agnostic.

Agnostic atheism encompasses both agnosticism and atheism.

1/3/2007 8:14:39 PM

I believe your #2 definition is off.

1/3/2007 8:28:03 PM

How is it off?

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 8:31 PM. Reason : read your post wrong initially]

1/3/2007 8:29:03 PM

Well, I'm agnostic, and I don't belive in god, so if your #2 definition is correct, then I'm in the wrong religion...

1/3/2007 8:31:47 PM

I thought an agnostic was one who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists, which contradicts your statement.

1/3/2007 8:33:40 PM

Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief in gods. It can mean:

1) You do not think there is substantial proof for or against the existence of gods.
2) Certainty about the existence of gods is beyond human capacity.
3) You may think that one can be certain about the existence of gods and may think that gods exist, but you think that their role in human life is minimal.

1/3/2007 8:34:55 PM

What's your source for #3? My agologies to the op for the topic deviation.

1/3/2007 8:36:22 PM

I'll try to find one for you.

But think about what I said before that. "You do not think there is substantial proof for or against the existence of gods." The third definition I listed falls under that because it is based on personal thought. I listed it seperately because I've heard several people express it. Just because you do not think there is substantial, undeniable, clear proof for something does not prevent you from thinking it. If it did, physics wouldn't exist.

1/3/2007 8:49:46 PM

Yes, the third definition you listed does fall under that, but your belief "I think that gods do exist" clearly contradict the first and second definitions.

1/3/2007 8:52:15 PM

Please debate semantics elsewhere...you're going to get this thread moved to the soap box if you keep it up

1/3/2007 8:55:26 PM

Yeah, I agree- your #3 isn't accurate at all. I'm fully agnostic and 1 and 2 and perfect. But since you can't know if God exists, you cannot say "He exists but he doesn't do anything important."

I've never ever heard an agnostic say that. If that's the case for you, you're more of a doubting theist or a believer in a clockwork God than anything else.

Quote :

"Agnostic atheism encompasses both agnosticism and atheism."

Not possible. If you truly believe people can't know if God exists or not and then also categorically believe that he DOES NOT exist, you're contradicting yourself.

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 8:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2007 8:55:48 PM

you're going to get this thread moved to the soap box if you keep it up

1/3/2007 8:58:20 PM

Neither of you are completely reading my responses.

1/3/2007 9:02:19 PM

Quote :

"But since you can't know if God exists, you cannot say "He exists but he doesn't do anything important." "

I never said I know "he" exists. I said I think gods exist. I never claimed to know that any exist.

As you can be an agnostic theist, you can be an agnostic atheist. Knowledge and thought can be seperate from belief.

From your responses, I honestly don't think you've studied atheism or agnosticism very deeply.

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:06 PM. Reason : ]

1/3/2007 9:04:44 PM

take it here /message_search.aspx?section=4

search for agnostic

profit!

now back to what the post was originally about...

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:05 PM. Reason : ]

1/3/2007 9:04:59 PM

Sorry, Wolfpacker06.

My initial response was on topic.

1/3/2007 9:07:35 PM

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with an anyfaith relationship.

1/3/2007 9:08:06 PM

^^^^ You did!

Quote :

"2) I think that gods do exist, but due to my thoughts on their nature, I think their role in my life is minimal/nonexistent and am an agnostic."

If you THINK they exist and also THINK they don't exist, that doesn't make you an agnostic by default, and that's your big issue.

Quote :

"As you can be an agnostic theist, you can be an agnostic atheist. Knowledge and thought can be seperate from belief. From your responses, I honestly don't think you've studied atheism or agnosticism very deeply."

Thought isn't different from belief here since there's no way to prove that God does or does not exist. So what you "think" about religion is what you must believe. I agree that knowledge is different from thinking, but there's no way to confirm knowledge in such a metaphysical argument, so the two things are made more similar here.

And no, by the very definition of those things, you cannot be both at the same time.

You're wrong about that last statement. But thanks for being judgemental.

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2007 9:10:11 PM

^Would you get the hell out of my thread, please???? Make a new one!!!!!!!

1/3/2007 9:11:22 PM

An atheist is someone with a lack of a faith in any religion, not someone with faith that god doesn't exist. You don't have to categorically believe ghosts not to exist to not have faith in ghosts. Where as an agnostic is defined as someone whose head would explode if they thought too hard in the fashion as an artificially intelligent robot who encounters a logical paradox.

But more on the point of the thread… I think interfaith can work, because enough people don’t know enough about their religions to realize how contradictory they are if all spelled out/people lack the courage of their convictions and all that jazz.

http://ncst.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204609276
Group Info Name: Atheist, Agnostic, and Non-Religious
Type: Organizations - Community Organizations
This group has 4,515 members.See All


[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:15 PM. Reason : maybe you could ask them to define their terms]

1/3/2007 9:11:32 PM

^^^ Well put. I wanted to say that but couldn't figure out how to word it.

1/3/2007 9:12:39 PM

^^^ ABSOLUTELY

but these are great examples why dating people of different religions is a bad idea

especially those who don't understand their idea of their own beliefs

Quote :

"Group Info Name: Atheist, Agnostic, and Non-Religious Type: Organizations - Community Organizations This group has 4,515 members.See All"

Funny, I was actually part of the core group of that originally.

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2007 9:12:40 PM

Below this line, no one is to discuss distinctions between different viewpoints on Christianity, or what an atheist is, or what an agnostic is:

(and may only discuss the topic of this thread)

-------------------------------------

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:14 PM. Reason : jk]

1/3/2007 9:12:47 PM

Ok chartreuse. Here is my advice for interfaith dating. If you are dating a person of a different faith just convert to combine the two faiths together. E.g. If a Muslin dated a Jew they could both become Muslim Jewish.

1/3/2007 9:16:05 PM

and for atheist-other?

^I admit, it's good theory...my best friend is Jewish-Catholic

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 9:17 PM. Reason : j]

1/3/2007 9:16:51 PM

Sometimes I feel like I want to give up on it, but then I realize it's soooo stupid to be fighting over something I myself can't totally be sure of. Maybe he's more correct- maybe I'm not sure... so I guess it'll come down to if or when we have kids. I think we may end up just raising them jewish/borderline normal. I think that would make his mom happy, and I love the family values involved in his heritage. I'm sure the only stumbling block would be with my parents if we raise our family jewish, baptisms are very important to them- but hell would freeze over before Ben would have them baptized. To me it's just water. And then there's the whole santa claus thing and christmas.... he never wants a xmas tree in the house, which is sorta ok for me but I know my parents will want to do xmas stuff, which I think will be fine. I know I dont want to lie to my kids about santa claus-- I think it's a terribly creepy concept. But I guess we'll sorta see what happens in the future. It wasn't a problem until the holidays rolled around and then the only problem we had was because I took him to Mass with me--- I found out how adverse he is to organized religion (he's an atheist, raised jewish) and probably just catholicism itself.

So far I think it's fine, I love him dearly and whatever happens with children is still sorta "in the air". I dont want to make my children "be" any religion-- they have any option they want whenever they decide-- just like my parents did for me.

1/3/2007 9:20:00 PM

^ Uhhhh, I was just being sarcastic, but if you really want, you can follow mcfluffle's practice and just attatch atheist in front of other religions as well.

Haha, Jewish Catholic. I'm not event going to try to think about that for fear it would cause an aneurysm.

1/3/2007 9:21:08 PM

My favorite fruit is the apple banana.

1/3/2007 9:28:49 PM

You aren’t just hyphenating a last name, you’re helping to shape loved ones futures for infinity years (assuming you buy into religion). Finding some way to reinterpret it after a little soul searching so that its all smiles for everyone, and the kids get to do whatever they want seems pretty risky.

1/3/2007 9:29:45 PM

I though "the kids get to do whatever they want" was the best suggestion in the thread thus far.

1/3/2007 9:47:10 PM

I'm not reading the thread... be understanding of each other and don't push your religion on to the other one and it could work. You'd have to be able to be mature enough about it or there isn't much chance if both of you are pretty active with your religion.

1/3/2007 11:37:52 PM

For me, political agreement is more important. Make sure you know the politics of a potential gf/bf before getting serious. I just cannot date Republicans.

I date a liberal Catholic, Im 'neutral' on religion... so there arent any real issues.

1/4/2007 11:53:50 AM

Quote :

"Make sure you know the politics of a potential gf/bf before getting serious. I just cannot date Republicans. "

This, to me, is one of the stupidest things I read (depressingly often) on TWW. I just can't fathom why some of you people let politics enter that far into your lives.

I'm pretty damn conservative on a lot of issues. I date an extreme liberal. We get along fine. It almost never, ever comes up. My dad is an extreme liberal and my mom is a more extreme conservative than I am. They get along fine. Again, it never comes up.

Now, if someone has certain politics for completely inane reasons, then you might not like them for how stupid they are. But for the beliefs themselves? Pfft.

1/6/2007 2:07:19 AM

^

Nice troll attempt. Nobody could be that naive.

1/6/2007 2:12:42 AM

I don't troll. I do a lot of lame things on the internet to get my jollies, but I don't troll.

Unless you consider it to be very likely that you will one day run for office and that a spouse with diametrically opposed viewpoints might undermine your candidacy, I can't fathom why you would reject the possibility of dating/marrying/whatever someone with opposing viewpoints within the normal range.

1/6/2007 2:18:14 AM

You may be on to something. Opposites attract.

1/6/2007 2:22:14 AM

Can I get a Carville & Matalin ftw?

1/6/2007 2:59:36 AM

Quote :

"Nobody could be that naive."

Come on now, you've been on TWW for how long?

1/6/2007 7:15:05 AM

Quote :

"This, to me, is one of the stupidest things I read (depressingly often) on TWW. I just can't fathom why some of you people let politics enter that far into your lives."

To me this is one of the stupidest things I read on TWW. It's one thing if you disagree on something fairly minor like social security, flat tax, etc., but if one person's views are completely polar to the person they are dating, I can't imagine that relationship working out in the long run. Maybe it could work if you avoided the subject of politics all together, but that wouldn't be much fun. Besides, deep down you'll still know he/she disagrees with almost everything in which you believe related to politics which is pretty damn important if you ask me.

1/6/2007 11:45:42 AM

Quote :

"but if one person's views are completely polar to the person they are dating"

How often do you think someone meets a person who is actually their total polar opposite, or anything close? Fine, I'll grant you that: if you have absolutely no common ground, it won't work. But most people from either party aren't in lock-step with the party line, so saying "I won't date Republicans/Democrats" is still stupid.

1/6/2007 12:37:14 PM

Ok, meeting a person who is your complete polar opposite would be rare, but meeting someone whose views on 1 or 2 topics are completely opposite would not be rare.

1/6/2007 12:46:07 PM

Yes, and I don't think such a situation would present much of a problem.

1/6/2007 1:08:30 PM