Quote :

"nope, b/c if i thought i could get away with it, i wouldn't pay either. Most people are this way....he just thought he could get away with it."

And I bet a hell of a lot of people would rob a motherfucker, too, if they thought it very likely that they could get away with it.

Quote :

"I bet people associated with MLK were packing, whether he knew/condoned or not."

And so the fuck what? The point is that the nonviolent protests of MLK and Ghandi didn't involve the display, use, or threat of use of weapons, whereas these dingbats thoroughly violent protest does.

Quote :

"His decision to excercise his first ammendment rights in conjunction with criminal behavior makes this sooo much worse"

Yes, yes it does, and for a variety of reasons.

Look up any beyond the most superficial definition of "terrorism," and you will see that the main thing that separates a terrorist act from one of mere homicide is that a terrorist has a political agenda for his actions.

My point isn't that these guys are terrorists, it's that when you inject a political bent into a crime it takes on a whole new dimension and becomes something very different. If some random criminal holes up with a gun and somehow gets away with it, it shows that the police fucked up. Big deal. If these guys manage to get away with what they're doing, it shows that the only thing that decides right is guns and the will to brandish them.

1/22/2007 7:02:21 PM

Quote :

"If these guys manage to get away with what they're doing, it shows that the only thing that decides right is guns and the will to brandish them."

I wonder if that's the same thing the British were thinking during our revolution?

Is there any situation when armed insurrection against the State is warranted?

It seems to me that the goal of government should be the collective protection of individual rights. How is the gov't protecting Ed Brown's right to his own property?

1/22/2007 8:21:34 PM

Quote :

"^ BATF is department of the Treasury if I'm not mistaken, so they're just pulling from their other assets."

no you stupid cunt. BATF is under the auspice of the Justice Department and the Secret Service is under the auspice of the Treasury (now under the control of the Department of homeland security).

[Edited on January 22, 2007 at 8:38 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2007 8:36:30 PM

Quote :

"In the wake of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, President George W. Bush signed into law the Homeland Security Act of 2002. In addition to creating of the Department of Homeland Security, the law shifted ATF and its investigative and regulatory inspection functions from the Treasury Department over to the Justice Department."

Mmmm hmmm, I was just too lazy to look it up, so it changed in 2002. Thanks though, always good to see differences of opinions being elevated to the level of a high school parking lot by the use of references to human genitals

Quote :

"If these guys manage to get away with what they're doing, it shows that the only thing that decides right is guns and the will to brandish them."

I'm glad you're not equating these guys with terrorists, because that would be a tenuous link, at best. I'll leave it at that. I'm not saying this guy should get away with it, not at all, so we agree on that. I'm just saying that going in with guns blazing is an option of last resort here. Aside from the obvious danger to the agents executing the raid, it would only raise the paranoia of his ilk.

1/22/2007 9:48:29 PM

they are terrorists.

1/22/2007 10:01:43 PM

*shrug* sure, ok

1/22/2007 10:41:26 PM

Quote :

"I'm just saying that going in with guns blazing is an option of last resort here."

you should probably let them know, i bet their plan is to attack and kill everyone inside the first chance they get.

1/22/2007 10:44:19 PM