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so if you were raised as a muslim, jew, buddhist, etc.....you think you would still be that way?


i swear most of the Christians i know are that way because that's how they were raised


i personally am looking for a reason to go one way or another....not just because, " i was raised that way"

1/31/2007 7:31:15 PM

Quote :

"xvang: And again, this goes to prove my point. Some of you people are like the wind. Blown one way or the other. Reworded: If I was a Muslim, I'd be down with the five daily prayers, zakat, pilgrimage to Mecca, etc... parts, but I'd see the fasting-during-Ramadan part as the opinion of one of the anorexic authors of the Quran. You see, it just doesn't work that way. You CAN pick and choose, but you SHOULD NOT label yourself Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/etc... If you do, you are merely decieving yourself and your faith/beliefs are in vain. All or nothing."

Why all or nothing?

Why would have I to believe in every word of the Bible to be considered a Christian? Why would doing otherwise make my faiths/beliefs in vain? It's my faith, isn't it?

What would I label myself? Christianish?

(I'm agnostic. I will never officially label myself anything besides that, by the way.)

1/31/2007 7:40:56 PM

I agree with xvang. What if I don't believe in god but believe you should honor thy father and mother. Is it still ok for me to call myself Chrisitan, because I don't see any difference between doing that and what you are proposing.

1/31/2007 7:44:58 PM

I think I saw that first here:

http://ncst.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204609276
This group has 5,182 members.

1/31/2007 8:35:17 PM

Quote :

"David0603: I agree with xvang. What if I don't believe in god but believe you should honor thy father and mother. Is it still ok for me to call myself Chrisitan, because I don't see any difference between doing that and what you are proposing."

You don't see any difference? None at all?

1/31/2007 8:42:37 PM

Well, obviously my example is a little more extreme. You can't just arbitrarily draw a line and say if you believe in 66.66667% of the Christian teachings then that makes you a Christian.

1/31/2007 8:51:32 PM

What if I say, "I recognize this as a contradiction of that so I opt to ignore this"?

1/31/2007 9:12:22 PM

where did the word "Christian" come from, anyway?

1/31/2007 11:14:39 PM

Quote :

"Christ is the English translation of the Greek word ???st?? (Christós), which literally means The Anointed One. The word was originally used to translate the Hebrew word ???????? (Mašía?), that is Messiah. The word is often misunderstood to be the surname of Jesus due to the numerous mentions of Jesus Christ in the Christian Bible. The word is in fact a title, hence its common reciprocal use Christ Jesus, meaning The Anointed One, Jesus. Followers of Jesus became known as Christians because they believed that Jesus was the Christ, or Messiah, prophesied in the Tanakh (which Christians term the Old Testament). The majority of Jews reject this claim and are still waiting for the Christ to come (see Jewish Messiah). Most Christians now wait for the Second Coming of Christ when it is thought he will fulfill the rest of the Messianic prophecies. The area of Christian theology focusing on the identity, life, teachings and works of Jesus, is known as Christology. "

Quote :

"Distinctions between "Jesus", "Christ", and "God" The term "Christ" is often used synonymously with "Jesus". A difference in usage is sometimes for variety of speech, and sometimes a subtlety intended to emphasize the totality of His person and function in Salvation. For example, Ott refers to "Jesus" when emphasizing an event in the New Testament, while he refers to "Christ" in discussing the nature of God. "

Quote :

"The use of "X", derived from Chi, the Greek alphabet initial, as an abbreviation for Christ (most commonly in the abbreviation "Xmas") is often misinterpreted as a modern secularization of the term. In fact, the use of "X" to represent the full word goes back to the earliest days of Greek Christianity."

Quote :

"Some critics have maintained that Christianity isn't even founded on an historical figure, but rather on a mythical creation. These critics argue that there are less than seven known non-biblical witnesses to the existence of Jesus, and some are regarded as dubious, if not downright fraudulent by the majority of academics. This view proposes that the idea of Jesus was the Jewish manifestation of a pan-hellenic cult, known as Osiris-Dionysus, which acknowledged the non-historic nature of the figure, using it instead as a teaching device."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible

Quote :

"The term Osiris-Dionysus is used by some historians of religion to refer to a group of deities worshipped around the Mediterranean in the centuries prior to the birth of Jesus. It has been argued that these deities were closely related and shared many characteristics, most notably being male, partly-human, born of virgins, life-death-rebirth deities and other similar characteristics."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris-Dionysus

[Edited on January 31, 2007 at 11:26 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2007 11:24:20 PM

Quote :

"What if I say, "I recognize this as a contradiction of that so I opt to ignore this"?"

What?

2/1/2007 12:05:53 AM

Quote :

"Followers of Jesus became known as Christians because they believed that Jesus was the Christ, or Messiah, prophesied in the Tanakh (which Christians term the Old Testament)."

oh, okay....so it sounds like you have to believe in this Jesus the Christ guy to be a Christian, right?

2/1/2007 7:42:07 AM

I'm going to be Christian and not believe in him.

2/1/2007 8:13:53 AM

This is the point that I'm trying make (As you've noticed, I'm not so good at making points):

I always run into people claiming to be Christian (or whatever religion). But, then when I question or challenge them about their Christian beliefs (or whatever religious beliefs) , they disagree viciously and point out that I am the one who is wrong. Even though they know their beliefs obviously contradict what the Bible (or religious scripture) says. Especially on the hot topics like homosexuality, premarital sex, abortion, heaven/hell, etc...

If the standards for your faith/beliefs say, "A + B = C"... that means you need to do A and B for C to occur. You can't just believe in A and ignore B. You're basically creating your own religious formula. And if you truly care about your soul/salvation/after-life, then that's a big risk to take. If that's the case, you just need to turn agnostic and forget about religion and faith. It's not going to do you any good to believe in things half heartedly. In my opinion, when it comes to your soul/salvation, almost doesn't count.

In conclusion,
A + B = C. Don't claim yourself to be C if you don't belive in A and B. Although, you're welcome to claim yourself D.

[Edited on February 1, 2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason : conclusion]

2/1/2007 11:10:44 AM

^^^^What don't you understand? It's pretty clear.

You say I can't pick and choose. So what if I see one part of a faith as a contradiciton of another part of the same faith...then can I pick and choose what I want to believe?

2/1/2007 3:04:44 PM

You never answered my question.

Quote :

"What if I don't believe in god but believe you should honor thy father and mother. Is it still ok for me to call myself Chrisitan, because I don't see any difference between doing that and what you are proposing.""

2/1/2007 3:13:19 PM

^I already responded to it by pointing out that your example is very extreme compared to what I was discussing.

Anyway, you say I can't pick and choose. So what if I see one part of a faith as a contradiciton of another part of the same faith...then can I pick and choose what I want to believe?

Maybe I have to recognize the contradiction as evidence that the whole faith isn't worthy?

2/1/2007 4:14:13 PM

I never said you can't pick and choose.

2/1/2007 4:16:04 PM

^Yes, you did.

Quote :

"David0603: I agree with xvang."

Quote :

"xvang: You CAN pick and choose, but you SHOULD NOT label yourself Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/etc..."

[Edited on February 1, 2007 at 4:19 PM. Reason : sss]

2/1/2007 4:18:18 PM

Xvang said you can pick and choose. I said I agree with xvang. What don't you get?

2/1/2007 4:32:17 PM

^You know what I'm asking, but since you're being difficult...

He said I can pick and choose, but if I do pick and choose, I can't call myself a Christian/Muslim/Jew/whatever...

And I'm asking, if I recognize one part of a faith that contradicts another part of the same faith, can I pick which of the two parts I choose to believe...and still call myself a Christian/Muslim/Jew...?

2/1/2007 5:08:26 PM

I'd be less difficult if you just gave a more specific example.

2/1/2007 5:09:39 PM

I've asked the same question 4 times, and your responses so far are...

1. You saying "What?" like I'm speaking gibberish when we both know you understand me.
2. You telling me I never answered some old question of yours when your question in question (LOL) was clearly rhetorical and didn't even end with an interrogation point.
3. You telling me you never said I couldn't pick and choose, ignoring the whole "but you can't call yourself a Christian..." part.
4. You reiterating #3.
5. You telling me to be more specific.

...when you know exactly what I'm asking and have known since I first asked it.

Answer the fucking question.

2/1/2007 5:24:11 PM

Quote :

"if I recognize one part of a faith that contradicts another part of the same faith"

I still can't make any sense of this statement. Why is it so hard for you to give a real world example?

2/1/2007 5:50:46 PM

I'm still trying to find the perfect example that you cannot refute. There have been hundreds of books written about the contradictions in, say, the Bible, and tons of books written by Christians who have discussed their personal relationship with Jesus and the choices they've made in navigating the contradictions present in the Bible (you say you do not consider these people Christians, and that's what I wanna get at here).

Anyway, every time I think I've got a good example, I find some website with some loon explaining it all away. I don't wanna use those examples if you're just gonna parrot the loon and continue dodging the issue.

If anybody thinks they have a really good example of a contradiction in the Bible, help a playa out. I want to avoid a debate on scripture here.

2/2/2007 5:07:59 PM

Quote :

"There have been hundreds of books written about the contradictions in, say, the Bible"

You're ok as long as you believe in everything in it. Especially the stuff that contradicts other stuff.

2/2/2007 5:09:56 PM

You've lost me.

2/2/2007 5:11:18 PM

I was being facetious.

2/2/2007 5:14:05 PM

Let's start from a new place so I won't waste any more time with this...

Do you believe the Bible has contradictions in it? I'm not talking Old Testament v. New Testament...that's a given. But within the New Testament, do you believe there are contradictions?

If not, do you believe the Bible could have contradictions in it, or are you dead-set on the idea that it is a perfect book and any seeming contradiction can be explained?

2/2/2007 5:19:29 PM

It has contradictions. That is one of many reasons why I do not believe in it.

2/2/2007 5:20:55 PM

i think the fact that the new testament has contradictions actually lends christianity a little credibility. BUT i still don't believe in it.

2/2/2007 5:23:35 PM

^^SON OF A BITCH!

I FUCKING SAID THAT, AND YOU REFUSED TO ANSWER ME.

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: Maybe I have to recognize the contradiction as evidence that the whole faith isn't worthy?"

I'm becoming a Christian just so I can tell you to rot in Hell and really mean it.

(I'm mostly joking, but seriously, dude...)

[Edited on February 2, 2007 at 5:25 PM. Reason : Really, really fucking annoying.]

2/2/2007 5:24:44 PM

"I FUCKING SAID THAT, AND YOU REFUSED TO ANSWER ME."

Uhhhhh, ok.

2/2/2007 6:09:59 PM

Yeah, I said it--pretty much handed it to you as an answer--and you refused to answer my question. Here's the full quote:

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: ^I already responded to it by pointing out that your example is very extreme compared to what I was discussing. Anyway, you say I can't pick and choose. So what if I see one part of a faith as a contradiciton of another part of the same faith...then can I pick and choose what I want to believe? Maybe I have to recognize the contradiction as evidence that the whole faith isn't worthy?"

You're the slowest mother fucker I've ever communicated with. I've talked with people who have mental retardation who pick up on things quicker than you.

Are you on drugs?

Seriously.

2/2/2007 6:31:41 PM

Soooooooooooooooo, what's your point?

2/2/2007 6:35:17 PM

I wanna know what the fuck is wrong with you, why you've been such a difficult prick.

If we were speaking in person, I woulda thrown something at you by now.

And I'd still feel more mature than you.

I'm waiting for you to start mimicking me or busting out with "I know you are, but what am I?" That's how ridiculously difficult you're being.

[Edited on February 2, 2007 at 6:43 PM. Reason : sss]

2/2/2007 6:42:54 PM

I guess you have no point?

2/2/2007 7:15:19 PM

Point is I fucked your mother, fuckface.

2/2/2007 7:17:16 PM

I take that as a yes?

2/2/2007 7:34:46 PM

bridget, you just got trolled in probably THE most efficient trolling in recent memory

on this topic, i don't give a shit, i'm agnostic too

2/2/2007 9:23:38 PM

I always get trolled. He started out serious.

2/2/2007 10:24:23 PM