And therefore most illegal immigrants are Mexicans, thus to refer to them at-large as Mexicans is no more of a travesty than referring to Iranians as Muslims or Britons as English

2/14/2007 8:08:05 PM

Okay, so ill just refer to ALL illegals as mexicans.

even tho some of these "spanish speakers" have totaly different cultures. But, me and you can be more politicaly correct and just call them mexicans.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 8:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 8:14:02 PM

Quote :

"Picking tomatoes on a farm in 100 degree + weather, for barely nothing.... The epitome of slavery."

hyperbole much?

Like I said, a lot of illegals make a very good living over here. Trying to compare them to slaves when they willingly risk their lives for an opportunity to work in this country is ludicrous.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 9:32 PM. Reason : 2]

2/14/2007 9:30:35 PM

i like illegal immigrants. Its the market doing its thing.

2/14/2007 9:53:14 PM

^^ No no. In their own country, they were dirt poor. In this country, they're dirt poor. USA dirt poor does not equal mexico dirt poor. We take advantage of that situation. It is wrong. Plain and simple.

Quote :

"i like illegal immigrants. Its the market doing its thing. "

Its the market creating border problems etc.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 11:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 11:06:53 PM

libertarians en espanol

2/15/2007 1:47:14 AM

^^^^Way to miss the most important part of the quote...

Quote :

"^^^Picking tomatoes on a farm in 100 degree + weather, for barely nothing.... The epitome of slavery. If these people would have the chance to experience life on the other side of the fence, they'd tell those farm owners to kiss their asses."

2/15/2007 1:52:07 AM

I ignored it because it's bullshit.

2/15/2007 3:27:47 AM

^Yeah?

2/15/2007 4:31:23 AM

It must be bullshit, otherwise why have you not driven to California to tell them about "life on the other side of the fence"? Bring pictures. If you really believe all these workers need to improve their lives is "more information" then what kind of monster are you when you continue to withhold it from them?

2/15/2007 9:14:18 AM

Jesus christ, Not life on the OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE LITERALLY. Life on the other side of the fence metaphorically speaking. Meaning the good life. Not the slave life of picking tomatoes. A decent life in which they are paid a decent income and not slave wages for doing demanding work.

If they got the opportunity to work better jobs like most americans (earning 25-30k per year) they would then tell those farm owners to kiss their asses. Could you imagine an american who makes that much (or somewhere ballpark) picking tomatoes?? The immigrant workers make about 12-18k per year picking tomatoes (etc). That's a crying shame.

The average american knows better. It's not that "we're too lazy" and "we're not hardworkers". It's ridiculous to work like that. Plain and simple. People make millions of dollars off of slaving these poor people. If those jobs paid more , I guarantee you that more americans would be out there working on them.

They get screwed in their own country. And then come over here to get screwed more.



[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 10:34 AM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 10:29:08 AM

Quote :

"You all realize, of course, it isn't the work itself that is beneath us, but rather the market price for that work."

/thread

2/15/2007 10:34:34 AM

^^ go out and try to hire laborers to do a job


then try and tell me that white people and black people aren't lazy as hell

immigrants do the work because they want a better life, and shitty here, is a hell of a lot better than shitty in mexico, who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad for someone from a different culture?

they are good people for the most part, and I respect the hell out of them...

2/15/2007 10:42:00 AM

You obviously did not read the thread! I said my father owns a construction company and I have worked on it all my life. So I know all about hiring labor.

Quote :

"who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad for someone from a different culture? "

It has noting to do with culture. It is a humane issue. And I never said they were bad people, what are you talking about? I'm defending them and standing up for them being ran over and treated like crap.

*Being worked to death and givin no benefits, no decent pay (in most cases) is terrible.

Why don't any of you get out there and pick tomatoes like them? Why don't you "work hard" like them? Tell me what is holding you back? What prevents you from having a good work ethic?

Don't be hypocrites and fall victim to your own logic.

[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 10:59:18 AM

you couldn't find a laborer last summer/fall (tobacco priming season) that would work for less than 10-11 an hour


most have teamed up with groups that give them work and pay their checks and you go through these people to find the labor


what you feel is humane is different than what they see as humane


many of these dudes are ecstatic that they can work, in this country and provide good money for their families.... and they work their asses off

my friend francesco used to work 60-70 hours a week at one job, then he'd work another 20 or so per week at a place next door.... and he loved it, he still went out at night and partied too

2/15/2007 11:11:11 AM

Would you prime tobacco (in the summer time) for 10 bucs an hour?

Quote :

"what you feel is humane is different than what they see as humane "

gee...I wonder why?


AHAHAHAHAHA

You mean to tell me that Big Tobacco can only afford to pay it's primary workers 10-11 bucks per hour? what a joke. I guess you couldn't find anyone to do that shit last summer/fall. It comes to no supprise.

Okay, heres the deal. I'm not discussing this issue anymore until those of you who oppose my views tell me why you lack work ethic? Tell me why you refuse to work the same as these Illegals?
Why don't any of you get out there and pick tomatoes like them? Why don't you "work hard" like them? Tell me what is holding you back? What prevents you from having a good work ethic?

If you can't answer ANY of these question. You're a hypocrite. Or you agree with me but you're just in denial. Or you're just a lazy american.

[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 11:33 AM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 11:14:48 AM

I own a farm myself, all of my family owns farms

now I do wildlife management work in addition to real estate...I walked row after row, 100 acres of pine last summer when it was 95+ degrees, with a machete in one hand and 5 gallons of chemical sprayer on my back doing a crop tree release on a company farm with one other guy from my company

I've bailed hay, primed tobacco, picked up sweet potatoes, planted tobacco and sweet potatoes... all alongside laborers

so until you know who the hell you're talking to stfu with some generalizations

for the most part blacks and whites are lazy as fuck and won't do the work that a laborer will, and if they do the work, it's slow and usually done wrong... this generation of playstation suburban kids and lazy ass welfare recipients is a whole lot more about mouth than they are about work...

2/15/2007 11:49:48 AM

Quote :

"I own a farm myself, all of my family owns farms"

Quote :

"you couldn't find a laborer last summer/fall (tobacco priming season) that would work for less than 10-11 an hour"

/thread

2/15/2007 12:46:23 PM

Quote :

"Why don't any of you get out there and pick tomatoes like them? Why don't you "work hard" like them? Tell me what is holding you back? What prevents you from having a good work ethic?"

Because I can get $30 an hour where I currently work, why should I take the pay-cut, lose AC, and lose the internet?

And if I was not all educated and shit, I'd take $8 an hour in Wal-Mart before I'd even consider $16 an hour in the field, much less $11.

2/15/2007 5:05:20 PM

another reason people immigrate to the US illegally is to murder people

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/16706447.htm

2/15/2007 5:13:23 PM

Quote :

"Why don't any of you get out there and pick tomatoes like them? Why don't you "work hard" like them? Tell me what is holding you back? What prevents you from having a good work ethic?"

umm....
because my marketable skills are not suitable for picking tomatoes?
because when i look at the benefits (in an economic perspective) of all of the jobs that i have held in my life (high school to present) Total Benefit = Salary + Not having to work in a field picking tomatoes?

WayneGro - i have to say, i really fail to see your point throughout this entire thread...like what exactly are you mad about? and futher more, what exactly is your solution?

2/15/2007 5:36:57 PM

^^^^ ok... and?


yeah,but I thought they were getting "shit pay"... most high school grads that are citizens here would be happy with that $10-$11 per hour (esp down east where this was)

2/15/2007 6:37:01 PM

For picking/priming tobacco? I've stated my point multiple times throughout this thread.

LoneSnark: That's exactly my point. You have the privilege to be selective. And you know better. It's not because you're lazy at all.

Same thing applies to you Nrallen. But instead people call us "lazy americans" simply because we choose not to do this type of work?!!? My solution is that they can be payed more money for what they do. Business owners profit heavily off this illegal and cheap labor. It brings wages down to a level that people can't compete with.

And 10-11$ an hour is not shitty pay. Unless you are priming tobacco in a field that feels like the sahara desert constantly bending over. People who do that here in the state of NC should at least get 14-16$ per hour with benefits. But pwrstrkdf250 I understand why you are all in for cheap labor. The cheaper you pay them, the more for you...right?


[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 7:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 7:06:32 PM

ummm, well there you go again

knowing it all and not knowing shit

me nor anyone in my immediate family do not own any tobacco fields

and guess what, the work I did in the fields with the immigrants in the past, I was doing for free because I was helping friends or family get done with the work

boooo fucking hooo, yeah it's hot in a field, I guess you missed the part about me being in the woods(no wind in case you've been in the woods before) when it was 95-101 degrees last summer working my balls off for my company, and that was before I made the pay I do now...I didn't cry about it, I got out and worked because it needed to be done and I was told to do it

$14-$16 an hour, you're kidding, a high school graduate can't make that kind of pay, hell, most 2 year degree people can't make that

get out of your little dreamworld

and I've never hired immigrants to do work on my property either, nor has my father

and btw, markets determine the pay, if someone doesn't want to work for shit pay, they don't have to

[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 7:20 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 7:18:25 PM

First off, these illegal immigrants will work for damn near anything. Not everyone offers them 10-11$ an hour, so that's a bit of a freakin stretch.

Secondly, the market is a key factor in illegal immigration.(That's why laws are being enforced to crack down on hiring them). It is factual that the cheap labor brings the wages down. When you have people coming from damn near 3rd world countries competing with americans in the labor market it causes problems. I don't know many americans who will do that kind of work for those prices. Starving poor illegals will do it without a doubt. That dosn't make them better workers than anyone.

[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 7:33 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 7:32:27 PM

Quote :

"First off, these illegal immigrants will work for damn near anything"

Kinda like the high school and college kids who used to do those same jobs for the same pay during the summer

2/15/2007 7:54:45 PM

Dude I know one case in which these people painted the exterior of a house for a pack of corona. And ive heard plenty more stories of shit like this happening.

2/15/2007 7:59:03 PM

well thats certainly cheap (and dumb) labor

but a lot of jobs that people claim "Americans dont want" like landscaping and construction used to be good summer jobs for teenagers

you ever watched that show "Dirty Jobs"? those are a shitload less appealing to most people yet I dont see illegals working those

[Edited on February 15, 2007 at 8:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2007 8:03:12 PM

Quote :

"I haven't seen black people or white people that are willing to get out and do the work that mexicans can do nowadays not to mention they are more productive they didn't take my job, I just don't wanna do it... and neither do most white people or black people"

I'll agree w/ you on this sort of, I have a couple of whiteboys that work for me that really put the effort into and they are paid for it. I also have a couple of hispanic guys who stroke it and they are paid for it. I also have a bunch of gentlemen from Vietnam whom I love to death, they are loyal hard worker and are paid for it. They however are mad at their American born montanyard generation because they are learning to live off the welfare system. They don't want to work because frankly they can live a pretty good life off of the welfare system rice is cheap, they're fine living in cramped conditions (like 10/ apartment) and this is how they are taught in the ghettos. Don't work get free healthcare and food. One guy told me he wanted more children because he'd get more $. Very sad, our system is the problem. As my late father-in-law told me (a once illegal immigrant from China) "Americans don't worry they will fail, someone is there to pick you up. I came alone, no one was here to help me, I had to work to live." This great man died too early because of cancer but he was able to save his money and retire at 52. That is how our system is supposed to work. Work your ass off make it happen, be smarter, faster and sleep less, you'll benefit.

2/15/2007 9:00:53 PM

Opportunity + Lax enforcement of the immigration laws = Illegal Immigration. That was an easy one.

^ True what you say about the system. It used to be that people were too proud to take a handout and wanted to get back on their own feet and become financially independent. What happened to that? How did my grandfather manage to own his own home and raise 6 kids (all of which ended up going to college) working as a butcher/delivery man/etc. with only a 8th grade education?

2/20/2007 5:50:34 PM

People that were that way failed to feed their families. Over the decades, therefore, handout seekers became associated with starving children so people avoided the behavior.

Now, thanks to largess, it is the reverse: handout seekers are poor but reliable, it is the rest of us that sometimes fail.

2/20/2007 11:56:52 PM

^ insightful

2/21/2007 12:35:16 AM

Quote :

"If these people would have the chance to experience life on the other side of the fence, they'd tell those farm owners to kiss their @$$es."

I thought they were experiencing life on the other side of the fence... or have they not built that yet?

Anyone could make this statement. Watch...

If I had the chance to break through the glass ceiling of the middle class and be rich I'd tell my boss to kiss my @$$.

Re.: Reason for Illegal Immigration?

Because the jobs illegal immigrants can get here pay much more than the jobs they can get in their respective countries of origin. Because they want for their children what our forbearers wanted for us... a better future.

[Edited on February 21, 2007 at 8:35 AM. Reason : -]

2/21/2007 8:34:46 AM

Quote :

"handout seekers are poor but reliable, it is the rest of us that sometimes fail"

I completely miss whatever you are attempting to say there. Can you rephrase that? (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything)

2/21/2007 2:56:57 PM