How do you sprain an MCL doing distance running in controlled conditions?

3/3/2007 5:21:36 AM

you cant run because you are flat footed...my nephew used to play baseball, only way he could score is if they hit in way out in the field. You could eat a pizza before he got to first base.

Poe, your full of shit....you should have had not difficulty increasing to that...you must not warm up or something or be way out of shape. I increased like that and had no problem, i actually do about 4 miles 5 days a week and have been for almost 10 years.....worse injury I had was a tripped and hit my knee, took a couple weeks to recover(ran through it) now it is fine.

There is no way you can say you WILL GET INJURIED, just because you did....

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 6:25 AM. Reason : w]

3/3/2007 6:22:15 AM

Quote :

"I am neither. I'm in the Navy, headed to BUD/S in January. I actually do a variation of this where I jog a mile to warm up, sprint a 1/4 mile, jog a 1/4 mile, etc until I've covered 3-4 miles. The key is training your body to recover from the sprints while jogging, not walking. I don't do this exclusively, just once a week or so and it works wonders for my endurance and ability to sustain a faster pace for longer during my regular runs."

This is doing wind sprints while jogging. I do these too.

3/3/2007 9:57:36 AM

^that's still HIIT training.

Quote :

"the only people I've witnessed undergoing HIIT are actual track athletes and people with muscle masses so strong that they can't survive a long run. which are you? "

and I'm sure you're trying to imply that track athletes and bodybuilders are the epitome of fat slobs who know nothing about cardiovascular fitness.

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 11:29 AM. Reason : HIIT]

3/3/2007 11:29:11 AM

Fat slobs? no. They are definitely not in need of jumpstarting cardiovascular health though.

3/3/2007 11:54:57 AM

It's fine to run 5-6 days a week. If you have good form and good shoes, you will not get hurt.

Also, you guys are looking at this the wrong way. it's not about how FAR you go, it's about how long you can keep going.

Starting out, most people will probably be running a 11-12 minute mile. You should aim for at least 20 minutes at a time, without stopping. So for a super beginner, that's under two miles. You will probably speed up pretty quickly over the first week or two, but until you are running an 8 minute mile or less, it's better to run for time than distance (in my opinion anyway).

Just start your watch, run in your zone, and after 20-30 minutes, stop and stretch and walk back. Spend a good 5-10 minutes stretching after you run. Like, TIME yourself to make sure you stretch for 5 minutes. You stretch after, not before a run.

For the HRM, you dont need anything fancy, and once you get a feel for what the "zone" is, you don't really need it anymore.

3/3/2007 1:27:28 PM

^ 5-6 days may be a bit much, but otherwise good advice.

Also:

For what it's worth, I'm a pretty regular jogger and I absolutely hate the first twenty minutes I'm out there. However, after that I feel like I can groove for a good amount of time. I think it's simply a matter of getting your body to understand that you've entered exercise mode.

3/3/2007 1:33:04 PM

^I'm the same way. I ALWAYS get a shoulder or side cramp about two miles in (12-15 minute mark), but once I pass 20minutes, I can run for hours.

3/3/2007 1:47:16 PM

just wondering...a couple of people have said don't run with music...i'm guessing this was for beginners so they know their body and concentrate more, but what's the reason? i'm the type where i can play full court basketball for hours, but can't run worth a crap because of the mental aspect and music helps me for that. can someone elaborate on the music thing?

3/3/2007 1:58:31 PM

it changes your cadence, which affects your gate/stride and artificially raises your heart rate.

I didn't like it for the first couple of weeks without music, but now, especially on long runs, it's soo much better. I just kind of zone out and daydream/meditate. It's really pretty awesome.

3/3/2007 2:30:55 PM

Agree with Noen. I find myself wandering in and out of thoughts on long runs... sometimes I'll collect myself and find that I just ran the last ten minutes while daydreaming. Truly awesome and powerful stuff.

3/3/2007 3:09:36 PM

I occasionally run with music and I've never noticed any difference in how I run. Personally, I recommend against music because it makes one less aware of your surroundings when outside.

3/3/2007 5:39:10 PM

I only get off pace when i hear sirens and gunshots in my gangster rap tracks.

3/3/2007 6:49:12 PM

someone mentioned this on page 1 but no one really addressed it...

Quote :

"but when I run I usually get intense side pains/cramps that force me to stop. I've been told to make sure I'm only breathing through my nose and to put pressure on the area and run through it. Usually it will subside for a while, but return a few minutes later and be so painful I simply cannot run anymore. Any suggestions??"

i get these too and it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks, they're so painful!!!! someone told me bananas (potassium) can help, yes? any other advice besides just pushing on the spot, which doesn't help me at all...

3/3/2007 7:11:23 PM

^
It's called being out of shape. Practice makes perfect.

3/3/2007 7:23:10 PM

you are probably over-exerting. If you are out of shape and trying to run an 8 minute mile, its going to get you. Run to your heartrate, not a clock

3/3/2007 7:24:28 PM

practice is difficult when it hurts - i don't mind the muscle/breathing/whatever hurt, but these suckers HURT

^hm ok, i'll try that

[Edited on March 3, 2007 at 7:31 PM. Reason : dasd]

3/3/2007 7:24:54 PM

potassium does help your muscles from getting sore and recovery iirc but it won't be the endall to paints... stretching does much more

3/3/2007 7:29:15 PM

In regards to heart rate monitors...if you are going to be a casual runner, just interested in getting in shape, and not sure how hard to push yourself, the best thing to do is run at a pace where you could have a normal conversation with someone while you run. It's cheaper than buying a heart rate monitor, and it's a good rule of thumb for base building type running.

I don't have one yet, but I know if I go try to run a 5k at a pace where I am breathing generally too hard, I'll be more sore from the run than if I go at a pace where my breathing never gets very elevated.

Having said all that, I am probably gonna purchase this guy this weekend

http://tinyurl.com/26bhw4

in an attempt to get ready for a 1.5/40/10 triathlon in June and perhaps a half iron in Sept.

3/3/2007 7:36:07 PM

Quote :

"but when I run I usually get intense side pains/cramps that force me to stop. I've been told to make sure I'm only breathing through my nose and to put pressure on the area and run through it. Usually it will subside for a while, but return a few minutes later and be so painful I simply cannot run anymore. Any suggestions??""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_stitch

A number of suggestions for preventing and curing side stitches on that link... I used to get those all the time when I ran cross country in high school. It's not necessarily a fitness or over-exertion thing. The solution I would stress is trying to strengthen your core muscles and diaphragm, and developing a good breathing rhythm.

3/3/2007 8:49:22 PM

breathe through your mouth, people. jesus.

3/3/2007 10:18:24 PM

Quote :

"Starting out, most people will probably be running a 11-12 minute mile"

you think Joe Average is really THAT slow? i guess maybe if he's holding it to a 165 bpm pace...

I know I went for a few years without ever running ONCE, and had bulked up with weights pretty substantially. when i started back to running, i could still run an 8:00 mile, and prob maintiain an 8:30 or so for several miles. i'm sure i was above that heart rate threshold, though.

3/3/2007 11:51:18 PM

I run with a friend. It helps in two ways:

First, talking to her while we run helps the miles go by faster.

Second, talking to her while we run keeps us from running too fast to burn out at the very beginning (because we have to run slower to keep from running out of breath).

Other things that have helped me start a running program:

1. Signing up for a race. It's easy to slack off on a running program when you have no goal in mind. Start with a 3 or 5K, and give yourself a few weeks or months to train for it.

2. Develop a game plan. I used the Smart Coach tool at http://www.runnersworld.com to get a good outline for how much I should be running per week. I tweaked it to suit my goals.

3. Rest. Your body needs time to recover after a run. I usually run 3x/ week, with a day in between. If I run two or three days in a row, the last run is usually pretty crappy.

4. Enjoy the journey. I think running is miserable when I just view it as exercise. Instead of counting down the distance when I run, I try to think of positive things, like envisioning running a race, or just enjoying the feeling of moving, or great weather, or whatever.

3/4/2007 10:19:33 AM

Quote :

"breathe through your mouth, people. jesus."

In through the nose, out through the mouth. Prevents side cramps.

And stretching is overrated unless your doing sprints. Just have a nice jog/warmup.

3/4/2007 1:01:31 PM

Cross train. Run, bike, stair climb, take cardio classes(step, etc). You'll get there in no time.

3/4/2007 1:03:44 PM

^^stretching before a run is not good for your muscles. stretch afterward.

And theDuke: yea if you stick to your zone, most people will be running 10+ minute miles the first time out. I'll bet if you had on a HRM you probably would have been over 9 minutes, it's pretty suprising, but then you haven't ever really been out of shape since I've known ya

3/4/2007 1:08:52 PM

whenever I try and run I put too much pressure on my feet....I fractured my leg a long time ago but when I run..it pains like crazy

3/4/2007 1:12:07 PM

You are probably bouncing too much. That can kill your knees and ankles.

3/4/2007 1:14:27 PM

my knee's and ankle's don't hurt...it's my tibia...thats what I fractured

3/4/2007 1:16:24 PM

Quote :

"^^stretching before a run is not good for your muscles."

great advice. most people don't realize how bad it is to stretch a cold muscle, but you're actually doing more damage and increasing your chances of pulling something.

3/4/2007 1:22:47 PM

Seriously, watch your bounce. Try to keep your head level.

You may have shin splints perhaps? Walking uphill at a fast pace will strengthen your dorsiflexion.

3/4/2007 1:22:48 PM

I need to get better at running too. I can't go long before I'm out of breath, even though my legs feel fine. Also after hard exercise, I sometimes get tired and have a metallic taste in my mouth. Is this something medical or am I just a regular fatass? Is there some sort of breathing technique I can use?

3/4/2007 6:52:25 PM

^^^all the people that begin their day with yoga must be masochists then...i don't know how you stretch, but I've never had a problem

3/4/2007 7:09:01 PM

continue to be an ignorant fuck then. there are way too many medical studies confirming the dangers of stretching a cold muscle before physical exertion for people like you to still be claiming otherwise.

3/4/2007 8:13:43 PM

i'm not the dumbass injuring myself

3/4/2007 8:24:45 PM

keep thinking that; you're only a sample size of one. just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that the research isn't correct.

3/4/2007 9:07:55 PM

yoga is completely different than stretching before a fucking run.

3/4/2007 10:16:05 PM

lol yeah yoga doesn't start with heavy stretching... most of that comes in the second half of a yoga session... running and yoga are quite different

3/5/2007 11:10:15 AM

When I was in high school CC we ran every day and no one ever got any injuries we fucked some shit up. You might want to do it every other day if you're just doing this casually. But speed work is really good. Just try running fast and then walking on the track sometime. And then repeat it over and over.

3/5/2007 12:10:50 PM

Quote :

"eleusis Vidi Vici Veni 14354 Posts user info edit post block user continue to be an ignorant fuck then. there are way too many medical studies confirming the dangers of stretching a cold muscle before physical exertion for people like you to still be claiming otherwise. "

Just like every other study out there about the human condition, there are shades of grey here.

One thing that is for certain is that the once used adage of stretch until it burns or is uncomfortable is certainly doing more harm than good.

But very lightly stretching to begin the blood flow into your target areas isn't going to cause trouble.

On cold mornings, I don't want to have to spend that 5 minutes at 10+ minute pace (or walking) letting my body come up to temp when it is cold as balls. I'd rather spend 10-15 minutes "waking up" with some light stretching and just generally moving my body around, then hit the road at my target pace so that I'm not shivering.

3/5/2007 12:35:58 PM

^3 and 4 -- no shit there's a difference between running and yoga, the point is that most people don't practice yoga after some other workout

just because there is the potential injure yourself doesn't necessarily anything--correlation does not equal causation. of course you're going to injure yourself if you go at it like you're pulling fucking taffy but it's also possible, and not particularly difficult, to stretch w/o injuring yourself.

jesus, it's like a monkey doing a freakin' math problem

3/5/2007 1:49:38 PM

Quote :

"When I was in high school CC we ran every day and no one ever got any injuries we fucked some shit up. You might want to do it every other day if you're just doing this casually. But speed work is really good. Just try running fast and then walking on the track sometime. And then repeat it over and over."

You were also still at an age where your body is going through massive shifts in hormones and composition. Most high school sports are detrimental to your longterm health unless carefully balanced. Hell a large number of my friends have lifelong injuries from Football, soccer and baseball.

^
Dude, no SERIOUS runner does immobile stretching before a long run or race. They warmup by RUNNING for 10-15 minutes, THEN light stretching if needed. You have to warm up your muscles to get anything out of stretching them.

3/5/2007 4:51:07 PM

Your body temperature definitely has to be elevated before stretching will do you any good.

You have to warm up a minumum of five minutes. That's the only way to turn that stuff into fluid to lube your muscles.

3/5/2007 5:13:17 PM

i never said it was a particularly effective way to improve flexibility or that it should be the first thing you do after you put your shoes on--just that the idea that: stretching before a run, in and of itself, is detrimental; is bullshit

3/5/2007 5:20:23 PM

Stretching cold is generally a bad idea though. Do you agree with that?

3/5/2007 5:38:36 PM

lol...close enough

3/5/2007 5:46:48 PM

Seriously, you are backpeddling like me in tech talk

3/5/2007 7:44:13 PM

Quote :

"You were also still at an age where your body is going through massive shifts in hormones and composition. Most high school sports are detrimental to your longterm health unless carefully balanced. Hell a large number of my friends have lifelong injuries from Football, soccer and baseball."

The CC team from when I was in it seriously pushed people to their physical limits. I think you might be right that it was detrimental to our many of the kid's physicial health, but I still think it was better than the alternitive of the obesity epidemic that's so big right now.

3/5/2007 9:06:54 PM

^^ heh, i've lost the fruition of beating this horse

3/5/2007 10:20:00 PM

^^Yea, it's a shame Americans can't seem to balance anything.

3/5/2007 11:30:59 PM