ahahaha

Moopheus.

i can entertain myself for hours like that.

3/19/2007 8:24:51 PM

you dont know cows man, theyre very complex, plus they eat way too much



and thankis alot for leading us away from explaining the matrix to talking about cows

[Edited on March 19, 2007 at 8:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/19/2007 8:25:17 PM

can anyone back up the viewing of somebody eating a cow in revolutions?

i don't remember and i still want to be right.

3/19/2007 9:50:42 PM

i just hate to think of the idea of young peoples lives being wasted because they're imprisoned in some crazy computer generated community.

oh wait...

3/19/2007 9:59:18 PM

not in revolutions.

in the first one they ate steak in the matrix, not in the real world iirc

3/19/2007 10:04:50 PM

are we talking about eating cows in the non-matrix, as in zion and the nebudchunezzer(sp) and shit?

3/19/2007 10:06:12 PM

there were never any cows in the real world, only in the matrix, there was a steak in part 1, which is why baldy sold everyone out for, not thirly shillings, a piece of steak

3/19/2007 10:36:18 PM

"my brain's telling me this steak is delicious............."

or something to that effect, no?

3/19/2007 10:39:18 PM

Quote :

"are we talking about eating cows in the non-matrix, as in zion and the nebudchunezzer(sp) and shit?"

yep

i remembered joey pants eating that steak in the matrix, not in the real world.

i'm pretty sure it would be impossible for the humans to raise livestock in the real world.

[Edited on March 19, 2007 at 10:46 PM. Reason : ]

3/19/2007 10:44:27 PM

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK

3/19/2007 10:58:36 PM

well, if cows aren't feasible, they could always just make sure that all of the humans have downs syndrome or something

3/19/2007 11:08:00 PM

all i can do is show you the door but you have to walk though it

if you want to see the real world press this button http://thewolfweb.com/user_logout.aspx

if you want to stay press this http://thewolfweb.com/messagetopic.aspx?topic=467121

3/19/2007 11:09:49 PM

First, the philosophy in this movie is not really Christian despite the references. I think back to the third episode where the kid ask Neo if he'll save him and I think Neo tell the kid that only he has the power to save himself. It's a message of self-actualization, finding the power within. In contrast Christianity is about the total depravity of man, the fact that man must go outside himself for salvation.

When you listen to the actors in the film talk about how it touched them, you'll not hear them start about how it has deepened their walk with God, but rather how they have embraced some sort of fuzzy spiritualism which seeks the power within...

If you want to understand this film in the context of other sci-fi lore maybe read some of the Dune books, they also focus on this idea of cyclical messiahs. Although they lack the supercool Dragon Ball Z smack down at the end. I don't care what the critics said, that was awsome.

[Edited on March 20, 2007 at 1:51 AM. Reason : oh well no second point, its late.]

3/20/2007 1:51:05 AM

If people were careful to spend their time on more intellectually gratifying media, we wouldn't be discussing why the wizard of OZ hides behind a shower curtain. Every time you spend money on something shitty, you tempt some asshole sell something shitty instead of doing something useful.

[Edited on March 20, 2007 at 2:40 AM. Reason : tempt vs make]

3/20/2007 2:38:59 AM

^This is why I keep telling my friend to stop seeing movies like Catwoman, Ghost Rider, etc. He'll watch anything. Meanwhile I haven't found a reason to go to theaters over the past 3 years.

3/20/2007 6:45:42 AM

Quote :

"^My point exactly. So I ask again, why did they bother with the humans at all? Why didn't they just draw power from their fusion plants directly?"

There is a lot of single-celled organisms that can survive without sunlight. It is just that sunlight is the most plentiful source of energy, but it is not the only source.

For example, bacteria can survive by eating minerals found around volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean. Now, if the robots genetically engineered bacteria which consumed plentiful minerals and heat either from the center of the earth or their fusion reactors to produce carbohydrates and proteins, then that would produce food. This food is worthless to machines that need electricity but could easily keep a human alive, presumably allowing the robots to live off the electrical energy produced by the human body. But this is where the justifications end: an electric eel would consume far less food yet produce far more electricity, since its body is organized for the purpose. Most of a human's energy output goes to heat production, which is what the robots started with. In fact, I have vague memories of someone building an electric eel battery, although I cannot remember where.

This is, of course, assuming there is not something special about the electrical output of an active living brain compared to muscle agitation that makes it cost effective for the machines.

3/20/2007 8:04:34 AM

Quote :

"My point exactly. So I ask again, why did they bother with the humans at all? Why didn't they just draw power from their fusion plants directly?"

That's like asking why a hydroelectricity plant uses water to power itself when it could just use it's generators.

The humans are the source of the power. Without the humans as batteries, there is no fusion from the towers.

3/20/2007 7:39:56 PM

what i want to know is, how come the thing they stick into their head to plug them into the matrix didnt pierce through their face? That shit was long yo!

3/20/2007 9:04:34 PM

Quote :

"That's like asking why a hydroelectricity plant uses water to power itself when it could just use it's generators. The humans are the source of the power. Without the humans as batteries, there is no fusion from the towers."

Maybe where I'm getting confused is that I'm assuming that the machines are taking the energy from a fusion reaction and then using that energy to synthesize food for the humans, who in turn make electricity for the robots. In that sense, it seems useless to have the humans in the equation; just use the heat from the fusion to generate steam, which in turn will power the generators. You seem to be saying that it's actually the other way around, that the energy from the humans somehow sustains the fusion reactions.

3/20/2007 9:13:59 PM

Too much time should not be exhausted in movie logic.

3/21/2007 5:19:46 PM

those rolly eyes do not make sense

3/21/2007 5:35:33 PM

Here is the Matrix explained:

ITS A FUCKING MOVIE, AND A DUMB ONE AT THAT

3/21/2007 6:36:30 PM

The Matrix was a ripoff from an old Doctor Who episode.

3/21/2007 6:57:23 PM

^^Allow me to echo the utterances of matrix fanboys of yore:

You just aren't intelligent enough to understand.

3/22/2007 7:18:54 AM

The original script for the 3rd movie was right on until the end of the movie. They left out SO much.

The chinese guy defending the kid defeats the smiths to get away and kills the ghost brothers. The child's importance is negated. Neo was never the one, the kid was. Neo was the usher of her coming. He was a false prophet... aka NOT jesus. Jesus was black, so was the kid (my own input there)

The smith fight with neo was not explained well at all.

How the entire city became smiths! (It's obvious that he could do it but why)
How neo was able to infect Smith with whatever the computer world had.

etc. There was so much expectations for the final movie and they just let it fall to shit. It's like they got to a point and gave up so some hack came in and finished it.

3/22/2007 7:43:27 AM

^You can add - what about Neo's ability to shock the squid things at the end of the 2nd to the list.

Pretty much every fan fiction or story from people purporting to know someone that knew someone that had read the script prior to the release of the 3rd film was better than what it actually turned out being.

I entertained the idea that the robots were really in a matrix because they became advanced, went skylab on everyone, were pwned by humans, and were placed in a matrix to satisfy their urges for human conquest. I wanted the end to be the MCP (or whatever the robot president of the matrix is called) to wake up and realize that it was a vacuum cleaner.

3/22/2007 8:04:16 AM

The mechano fighter rigs in the 3rd movie really bugged me because they left the operators completely vulnerable in the worst possible place; right on the front top

3/22/2007 8:41:35 AM

that explains teh whole ppl vs fusion problem. stupid ppl make stupid robots.

3/22/2007 8:56:21 AM

Quote :

"How the entire city became smiths! (It's obvious that he could do it but why)"

Smith was basically a virus. Viruses reproduce.

Quote :

"How neo was able to infect Smith with whatever the computer world had."

I've heard differing opinions on this. The movie gives the impression that the machines did something to Neo shortly after he was infected by Smith, and that it spread to the others. So perhaps all the Smiths were connected in some way.

I've also heard an explanation that the machines didn't do anything, and the reaction was simply because Neo and Smith were opposites. Like the Oracle says earlier in #3, "He is your opposite, your negative. The result of the equation trying to balance itself out." So when Neo got infected, it caused the reaction that eventually cancels out and/or kills Smith.

Quote :

"so what the F#@#$ was the matrix all about????"

Despite whatever imagery you might see, I don't think the Matrix had a Christian theme. You can't really say that Neo is Jesus because he honestly never acts like a Messiah. He questions what he's doing, he doesn't understand things, and for most of the first movie he fights against the possibility of being a savior.

Choice is something that's brought up several times throughout the trilogy, and while I don't know if it's really present till the third movie, there's a strong theme of fate vs choice. Especially near the end, where Smith is doing what he wants because he believes it's his destiny and his purpose, while Neo is fighting simply because he chooses to, even though there's no certainty he'll win or even live.

Quote :

"from what i gathered colonel sanders created the matrix over and over until he got it perfect, and there were a bunch of neo's who tried to make it work but failed everytime."

Sorta. The Architect tried to make a perfect matrix, but humanity kept rejecting it because they were being forced to accept it. So it was adjusted so that a person had to choose whether or not to accept the fake reality. Those that didn't ended up becoming members of Zion. Also, since this version of the Matrix wasn't perfect, mathematically it had a remainder, which within the Matrix created the One.

What would eventually happen is that after the One appears, the number of people who rejected the Matrix would exponentially start to grow, which would cause instability within the Matrix itself. And eventually the One would have to sacrifice themselves to re-balance the equation of the Matrix. Zion would be completely wiped out, the Matrix would be re-booted, and the whole thing would start over again. This was done several times, and it finally stopped with Neo because his relationship with Trinity caused him to choose her over the rest of humanity. This stopped the cycle and would have caused the death of all humans had he not gotten the machines to accept peace.

Don't know if that's a perfect explanation but hope it helps.

3/22/2007 8:57:01 AM

^They could go to all that trouble, or just add a reset button/power cycle the matrix server.

3/22/2007 9:29:31 AM

^^ good explanation.


what i dont get is why the one has to sacrifice himself to balance the equation, why not just reboot.

[Edited on March 22, 2007 at 9:34 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2007 9:33:46 AM

aha, movie analyzing....

3/22/2007 9:49:39 AM

Quote :

"You can't really say that Neo is Jesus because he honestly never acts like a Messiah. He questions what he's doing, he doesn't understand things, and for most of the first movie he fights against the possibility of being a savior."

FYI... Not that I am saying there is a Christian theme but those thoughts/attitudes still coincide with Jesus. Here is a small example of Christ expressing a similar sentiment:

Quote :

" 36 Then Jesus went with them to the olive grove called Gethsemane, and he said, “Sit here while I go over there to pray.” 37 He took Peter and Zebedee’s two sons, James and John, and he became anguished and distressed. 38 He told them, “My soul is crushed with grief to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” 39 He went on a little farther and bowed with his face to the ground, praying, “My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.”"

Jesus also continuously fought against his disciples notion of the Messiah, that he would strike down the empire and reign as King on earth.

3/22/2007 9:55:10 AM

its obvios they wrote neo with jesus in mind but really i wouldnt take the comparisons too far

3/22/2007 10:01:02 AM

Quote :

"FYI... Not that I am saying there is a Christian theme but those thoughts/attitudes still coincide with Jesus. Here is a small example of Christ expressing a similar sentiment:"

Hm, well I stand corrected then. Just goes to show how worthless those few years of sunday school that I had actually were...

Quote :

"what i dont get is why the one has to sacrifice himself to balance the equation, why not just reboot."

I got nothing for that, unfortunately.

(EDIT: Well on second thought, I sorta do. My only thought is that the Matrix couldn't be rebooted without the balance. Otherwise it would crash and all the humans would die anyway.)

Honestly you can take it even further and ask, "why even bother having the matrix at all". The Architect himself states that they could survive without humans, so why not just do so? It was obviously reasonably easy for them to obliterate Zion, and they could kill all the other humans simply by pulling the plug. I can't see how any benefits from using humans as energy sources outweighs the resources wasted by fighting a repeating, meaningless "war" with the multiple Zions.

But oh well. At that point I'm willing to just accept what the movie presents.

[Edited on March 22, 2007 at 2:32 PM. Reason : on second thought]

3/22/2007 2:29:15 PM

satisfy that periodic robotic bloodlust

3/22/2007 2:37:35 PM

In watching this series this is the Matrix as I understand it:


Post-War: The humans have blocked out the sun, eliminating the machines' best source of power. They can survive, but not like they were previously. Then they realized they could make a new power source out of humans by utilizing their heat. The problem was containing them and keeping them under control.

According to the scenes in the Animatrix movie, the machines experimented with humans and how to control their minds. That's where the Architect comes in and creates the original Matrix - a world to preoccupy the human mind while the machines harvested their energy to survive and thrive. The original version of course was an ideal world, and it failed spectacularly because the human mind refused to accept it. No one believed it was real. So the machines went back to the drawing board, trying to create a matrix people would accept. That's how the Matrix from the movie was formed, by revising it over and over again to maximize human acceptance of it.

As the Architect stated, however, is that to create a system people accepted, you have to allow humans to retain free will. The problem with free will is that the system could still be rejected, allowing a select few to be "unplugged." Furthermore, the system had the potential to produce a person that could not only reject the system, but control it. The Architect specifically talks about his efforts to eliminate this "problem" in Reloaded, and his failure to do so.


So, what can you do? To have a reliable energy source, you need humans. To use human energy, you need the Matrix. To make humans accept the Matrix, you have to allow them reject it. Not to mention the statistical eventuality that someone like Neo will be born with the capacity to control the Matrix. Therefore, you need a way to "reboot" the system, and do this without losing your entire crop of humans. If you allow Zion and Neo to exist long enough, eventually they'll free enough minds to cause a system collapse.

The machines' solution is simple - wait until Neo shows up, and build a giant fucking drill to plow through and destroy Zion. Neo is nothing more than a sign that the system is primed and ready for going completely batshit. The machines don't have the power to destroy Neo themselves, since he can control the Matrix itself. Morpheus says, in Reloaded, that since Neo's coming they have freed more minds in a shorter timespan then ever before.

So, the machines destroy Zion and give Neo a choice - save himself and 23 people, or tell everyone the truth and cause a system-wide collapse in the Matrix. These are the "losses we're prepared to take" that the Architect alludes to in Reloaded. The Architect never indicates that the Neo character must sacrifice himself/herself each time. Recall that Morpheus talks about being freed in the 1st movie. He only says that the previous "Neo" died, which suggests that he stuck around long enough to restart Zion before surcombing to old age. Had the previous Neo sacrificed himself you'd think that Morpheus would have mentioned it. Neo in this movie however decides to stand and fight, in part because he loves Trinity. So now the truth is out, which leads in to the third movie, Revolution.

In addition to Neo sticking around, however, the machines are faced with the "Smith" problem. It's a matter of perspective whether you believe that Neo and Smith both exist to balance themselves out, as the Architect suggests in his equations analogy. Nevertheless, both Neo and Smith are unrestricted in power when inside the Matrix. Inevitably one cannot defeat the other, but Neo figures out that he can instead sacrifice himself to destroy Smith. This sacifice provides Neo the opportunity to negotiate peace with the machines.


All in all, I really liked the storyline, even if the 2nd and third movies were significantly cheasier than the 1st. The biggest gripe I have is that there's no explanation for why Neo can control machines outside the Matrix. Inside the Matrix, Neo can simply look at the code and manipulate it, but outside I'm stumped. Other than that I don't have nearly the beef with the 2nd and 3rd movies that everyone else does...


Hope that clears a few things up...


[Edited on March 23, 2007 at 7:47 PM. Reason : [Edited on March 23, 2007 at 7:46 PM. Reason : gf]]

3/23/2007 7:37:05 PM

whoa, nice explanation, that is an interesting idea, too bad the architect explained it so fast i couldnt understand

3/23/2007 8:10:00 PM

after the 2nd movie where he controlled the machines in the real world I was convinced that we would learn of a 2nd matrix in which the "real world" was contained. That would give a reasonable explaination for his mind over matter stunt at the end of the 2nd movie.

I was disappointed it didn't happen. I suppose the less exciting answer is that neo was still connected to the matrix somehow and the machines were connected to the matrix hence neo could control the machines by some such technological route. I never found this explaination terribly convincing.

But again the awsome DBZ fight at the end won me over.

3/23/2007 9:01:54 PM

Quote :

"The Architect never indicates that the Neo character must sacrifice himself/herself each time. Recall that Morpheus talks about being freed in the 1st movie. He only says that the previous "Neo" died, which suggests that he stuck around long enough to restart Zion before surcombing to old age."

Yea, you're right. I forgot about that. The Architect only mentioned that Neo would have to re-insert the particular code he carries back into the Matrix had he chosen to restart Zion.

Quote :

"after the 2nd movie where he controlled the machines in the real world I was convinced that we would learn of a 2nd matrix in which the "real world" was contained. That would give a reasonable explaination for his mind over matter stunt at the end of the 2nd movie."

Yea, so did I. I've got a pretty good idea of how he does stuff inside the Matrix, but outside the only thing I can think of is that he's a walking, talking wireless router.

3/24/2007 8:49:45 AM

this explains it all really:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq85FXcVz1I

3/24/2007 1:11:42 PM

eat my shorts spookyjon

ok anyone got the word on matrix sequals?

5/10/2007 6:15:31 PM

Anigaytrix?

5/10/2007 6:27:45 PM

NO

5/10/2007 6:43:53 PM

Cows man, that's where it's at.

5/10/2007 10:12:19 PM

Quote :

"I never understood why they didn't just use cows instead of humans."

thats an easy one...because keanu reeves isn't a cow!1

5/10/2007 11:36:37 PM