Quote :

"A Tanzarian: I'm waiting for BridgetSPK to show up."

?

I don't get why you would say this.

Am I supposed to have some hard and fast opinion here that I defend extra passionately?

I tend to shy away from this particular topic. And when I haven't shied away, I've ended up coming out on both sides at one time or another.

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 7:48 PM. Reason : Maybe you're just retarded?]

3/28/2007 7:44:33 PM

Quote :

"yea, but youre bridget the woman amazon warrior who's here to defend drunken reckless girls everywhere "

3/28/2007 7:50:37 PM

I saw "women cant cry" in the message boards page, i was going to post a picture of Tom hanks with "there's no crying in baseball!"

but then i saw that this was the lounge

but yeah, i agree with the original post

3/28/2007 7:56:23 PM

^ of course you agree... that's probably how you got her:

http://www.brentroad.com/photos/00305240.jpg

pregnant.

IN DUBAI.

3/28/2007 7:57:46 PM

sorry, i prefer safer countries

like Iraq

3/28/2007 8:02:16 PM

Quote :

"OneNighter86: yea, but youre bridget the woman amazon warrior who's here to defend drunken reckless girls everywhere"

But I tend to shy away from that particular topic. And when I haven't shied away, I've ended up coming out on both sides at one time or another.

3/28/2007 8:05:41 PM

It seems fairly well accepted that if women refrained from drinking heavily while there are men around, they would prevent being raped. A similar statement can be made for men. If men would refrain from having sex with drunk women, they would prevent themselves from commiting rape. I've thought from middle school health class on that it was obviously a bad idea to initiate sex with someone while she was intoxicated if there was a chance she might not consent otherwise (i.e. ONLY ok in a monogamous, sexually active relationship). This seems to be a rare opinion.

You could even flip the common "women shouldn't get drunk 'cause they know they can be raped" argument around: men shouldn't get drunk if they'll be capable of raping when they do.

Point: if you're going to accept either of those common arguments, throw some responsibility towards the man as well. I still get the impression that most people who posted on page 1 believe that if a woman drinks, everything that happens is her fault; I stongly disagree.

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:16 PM. Reason : point]

3/28/2007 8:13:14 PM

i like how your post completely ignores the fact that drunk men could possibly regret having sex with a sober skank ass bitch

those men should be considered "raped" just as much as your avg. sorostitute considers herself "raped"

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:21 PM. Reason : s]

3/28/2007 8:20:26 PM

I agree that men can be raped, and I think it would be nice if that were law. We weren't discussing whether or not men can be raped though, we were discussing whether or not alcohol is a factor in deciding if a woman was raped. The consensus prior to my first post was "women shouldn't be alowed to say they were drunk and abused, lets all go to london where we can have sex with people who don't want to and not go to jail."

Cases of sex you regret are not necessarily rape.

"Oops, I didn't mean to have sex with you" is not the same thing as "what's going on? why is there a penis inside me?"

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:31 PM. Reason : grossly misread your post]

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:34 PM. Reason : added]

3/28/2007 8:30:56 PM

Before anyone bitches about it, I'd like to point out that I'm not arguing that rape may be charged where it shouldn't apply. It's quite likely that there are cases where someone feels bad and abuses the law.

I DO NOT think that should be solved by ignoring the effects of alcohol, however.

There are cases where people truely are sexually abused, and there must be laws in place to prevent that.

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:43 PM. Reason : last sentence]

3/28/2007 8:40:19 PM

Quote :

"It seems fairly well accepted that if women refrained from drinking heavily while there are men around, they would prevent being raped. A similar statement can be made for men. If men would refrain from having sex with drunk women, they would prevent themselves from commiting rape. I've thought from middle school health class on that it was obviously a bad idea to initiate sex with someone while she was intoxicated if there was a chance she might not consent otherwise (i.e. ONLY ok in a monogamous, sexually active relationship). This seems to be a rare opinion. You could even flip the common "women shouldn't get drunk 'cause they know they can be raped" argument around: men shouldn't get drunk if they'll be capable of raping when they do. "

The problem is, you're still defining the failure of good judgement as rape, and I'm saying it isn't. Sleeping with someone you wouldn't normaly sleep with because you were too drunk to actually think about what you were doing and who you were doing it with is not rape. If the woman resists at all, then yes by all means it's rape, but that's always been clear cut. The only tough one here is if she's so drunk that she is incapable of consenting or resisting and I don't think thats very common and would have to be approached on a case by case basis. Clearly if you have voluntarily intoxicated yourself to that point, you share some responsibility in what has happend to you. That isn't to say that the other actor's punishment or criticism is lowered, but that you accept some responsibility for what you've done to yourself. But bad judgement on your part and failure to remember everything leading up to where you are now is not rape.

[Edited on March 28, 2007 at 8:48 PM. Reason : clarification]

3/28/2007 8:43:52 PM

You're right. It does still nullify the argument that women should be held responsible for everything that happens when they're drunk, though, which still seems to be a suprisingly common viewpoint to me. I agree that a case by case decision is appropriate, and I still think that the effects of alcohol cannot be ignored when determining whether or not someone was in a position where they can consent.

3/28/2007 8:55:50 PM

But still unfortunately the law in the US (as far as I know) pretty much reads 'if a man and woman have sex and the woman was drunk then she was raped'. Regardless of his condition.

Which is some bullshit...

I met this girl, she came over. Also managed to go beer for beer with me until we'd finished the second six-pack.Then she just kinda passed out. I took her upstairs and threw her on my bed, and I just kinda sat in my room dickin' around on my computer (no fapping) drinkin' a couple more beers but keeping an eye on her... Didn't want some drunk chick I barely knew throwing up all over my room because she didn't know where she was and couldn't find a bathroom or anything...

Anywho, later that night she kinda woke up but was still drunk and she started rolling around on the bed. I tried sitting in my chair with the back facing the bed so she couldn't roll off and hurt herself ("hey, where'd these bruises come from?") but she kept trying to go around it. By this point she was trying to crawl out of my room and go downstairs looking for more beer.

So I laid on the bed next to her to keep her from rolling off. We're both fully clothed still, and the bed is made. So what does she do? Climbs right on top of me, pulls her shirt off, and starts sucking on my neck while she tries to pull my belt off. Thanks to my stupid morals and fear of being locked away for rape, I never let her get any farther than unbuckling my belt - eventually she passed out again. Nothing happened. She woke up with a splitting headache and didn't remember ANYTHING past sitting downstairs drinking beer.

I think I made the right decision... I made the safe decision I suppose. But what do you guys think? Morally? Legally? She OBVIOUSLY wanted some dick - no clearer way to say that then pull your shirt off, straddle a guy, get to work on his belt buckle, and start sucking on his neck. How unfortunate is it that the next day she coulda said I raped and I probably woulda been sent to jail?!?!?!

3/29/2007 2:26:36 AM

Wait, how in the hell is a woman not fully responsible when she gets completely drunk and willingly fucks a guy?

If I get drunk and start breaking shit in a store, guess who's responsible? My judgment was impaired? NO SHIT. Doesn't change responsibility one bit. You shouldn't be able to use the government to ruin someone's life for your own bad judgment.


[Edited on March 29, 2007 at 3:00 AM. Reason : dfs]

3/29/2007 2:53:40 AM

"Oh my God, I was so drunk! I don't remember ANYTHING... I'd never have sex with HIM though, I think he raped me! "

3/29/2007 2:58:15 AM

You can only be raped by ugly and/or poor people.



"On the other hand, the guy was hot as fuck."

3/29/2007 11:39:52 AM

Quote :

"Wait, how in the hell is a woman not fully responsible when she gets completely drunk and willingly fucks a guy?"

It's called "the law."

3/29/2007 12:01:25 PM

^There are a lot of things wrong with the law


^^^^^ I had a simliar thing happen to me once. A girl got plastered and I was just lying there next to her when she rolled over and started trying to make out with me. Funny how since the woman makes the move on the guy, the guy can be put in jail for 5 years.

Does this mean if a drunk guy makes a move on a sober girl and she has sex with him, that is rape? It's only fair, right?

3/29/2007 12:06:07 PM

Quote :

"There are a lot of things wrong with the law"

You can say that again.

Quote :

"Does this mean if a drunk guy makes a move on a sober girl and she has sex with him, that is rape? It's only fair, right?"

Under NC law, it'd be considered sexual assault instead of rape, but yeah I think it's possible.

3/29/2007 2:50:06 PM

But aren't you all assuming it's always the drunken girl who comes on to you?

Quote :

"Wait, how in the hell is a woman not fully responsible when she gets completely drunk and willingly fucks a guy?"

The problem here is guys who take advantage of a drunk girl. That doesn't absolve guys of any responsibility in these situations. That's the same as the "oh, well she was asking for it by wearing such a slutty top!" It's not that the girl fucks you and you were just an innocent bystander- it takes two to tango. Of course all the guys in this thread feel victimized by this law, despite that if they kept it in their pants in such a situation, they wouldn't ever have to worry about it. Until the law changes here, I'm afraid you can't do much about it except complain.

Of course women shouldn't lie about a dude raping them, but you seriously can't say that every drunken unexpected sexual experience hasn't been rape, either. It only takes a few real rapes to make it unfair for all you guys- and sorry, but rape statistics still show men raping women in far greater numbers than women raping men.

[Edited on March 29, 2007 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .1]

3/29/2007 3:46:19 PM

girls who are sluts and have sex while drunk only cry rape so they don't feel so bad about being a shameless whore

3/29/2007 4:03:30 PM

or maybe it's to get money or screw over some guy's life...

I mean, let's not be narrow minded here.

3/29/2007 4:08:02 PM

drunk drivers? not their fault.

3/29/2007 4:10:01 PM

Is there a large number of girls out there accusing men of rape like this?

You guys act like it's an epidemic.

3/29/2007 4:45:49 PM

well, you say you don't go out much

3/29/2007 5:20:36 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "Sir Igor Judge" what a kickass name for a Chief Justice "

holla

3/29/2007 5:55:21 PM

Quote :

"but rape statistics still show men raping women in far greater numbers than women raping men."

well no shit. guys generally don't complain about getting laid...drunken or not.

3/29/2007 6:57:16 PM

if two girls get drunk at a party and have sex
which one is the rapist and which is the victim?

3/30/2007 12:54:08 PM

Quote :

"The problem here is guys who take advantage of a drunk girl."

No shit. I don't think anyone here is going to argue that those who willingly take advantage of others should get a free pass because the victim was drunk. The problem is two fold:

(1) A drunk woman may or may not have an accurate recollection of what happened and what her own actions were. Did she initiate the sex during a black out? Was she 'sending out' the wrong message (I'm not talking about wearing provacative clothing or what have you...I'm talking about being overly flirtatious, sending verbal/nonverbal sexual signals to someone there are talking to)?

(2) A man can be charged with rape with little more than verbal accusations from someone who was under the influence of alcohol and drugs at the time. These charges will stay in the man's record for life, regardless of whether he was found innocent or if the charges were dropped.

I honestly don't see how some of you can disagree with the judge's statement:

Quote :

"However, where the complainant has voluntarily consumed even substantial quantities of alcohol, but nevertheless remains capable of choosing whether or not to have intercourse, and in drink agrees to do so, this would not be rape."

If you get drunk and consent to sex, you cannot later retract your consent and claim rape.

[Edited on March 30, 2007 at 6:00 PM. Reason : ^ Who cares? If you get to watch, then you win.]

3/30/2007 5:58:09 PM

you see the key here fellas is;

after you two had sex>>> Did she enjoy it?

NO = RAPE

yes = consent

b/c everyone likes hot sweaty drunken sex, unless its raoe

3/30/2007 7:25:12 PM

HIIIII WRAL!!

IM SURE YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD!

3/30/2007 7:29:16 PM

3/30/2007 7:41:03 PM

this is all about being responsible for yourself. you can go out and have a great time, and a safe time, without getting slobbering-shitfaced-where's-the-toilet drunk. the only time a scenario like this can rightfully be labeled "rape" is if there is physical violent harm to the individual crying 'rape'.

i must admit, i am a little tipsy right now, and i am fully aware that my husband will be taking advantage of me tonight. in fact, he kept filling up my wine glass, and i continued to drink it. my choice. i got myself into this predicament, i will deal with the outcome.

3/30/2007 8:36:50 PM