How am I hiding anymore than you're hiding? StateFag509c is an alias too.

4/24/2007 7:01:58 PM

many people here know who State409c is IRL.

he could be contacted.

you, OTOH, are an anonymous troll.

unless you want to come off with some identifying info as to who you are.

hell, how do we even know you went to State?

4/24/2007 7:19:11 PM

^^ in fact, mister 950 posts in 50 days, hit-the-ground running, obviously SOMEONE'S alias....

ii'm interested to find out who is actually hiding behind this rather interesting screenname.

i've got a theory.

Do you know Dave & Juliette?

4/24/2007 8:28:06 PM

I mean, should either of yall be calling anyone out for using an alias?

4/24/2007 8:36:58 PM

I have yet to use an alias in TSB. Claiming TypeA as an alias is stupid for multiple reasons.

#1 I changed the password to State409c and couldn't get it back because of a dead ncsu email
I had fun with TypeA for awhile, and never fully intended to stay anonymous,

#2 I have never trolled TSB with it

Funny thing, in all these battles where TrollTwista claims so much innocence and blah blah blah, I went back to his TSB post history as far back as it would go, and noticed that even in 2005, people hated him. I didn't start becoming a TSB regular until almost a year later.

4/24/2007 8:49:45 PM

Quote :

"The optimized outcome for an individual without collusion is to always run. One should always choose to run and hope that some poor sap is stupid enough to try to fight to give you a better chance of making it out of there."

You missed the point of the quote you were replying to. In the case of a lot of the VT victims, flight was not an option. Their only way out was blocked by the man with a gun. The question is, why then instead of fighting did people allow themselves to die?

4/24/2007 8:55:31 PM

hey fool,

we're talking about State409c and Ouevre, here.

take your "on topic" discussion somewhere else.

4/24/2007 11:26:05 PM

^on that subject, Ouevre strikes me as an aaronburro alias, I take that from the one post of his I read.

Quote :

"You missed the point of the quote you were replying to. In the case of a lot of the VT victims, flight was not an option. "

Flight was still an option, plenty of people escaped through windows and the like, but for a more fun explanation, I've got an experiment for you. Back a dog into a corner with a vacuum cleaner, then note whether he A)attacks the vacuum cleaner or B)continues to try to run away.

4/24/2007 11:42:22 PM

my dog simultaneously attacks the vacuum cleaner and runs away.

whats that prove, other than ?

4/25/2007 12:15:51 AM

Perhaps your dog has been abused, the normal response is for the dog to run and hide.

4/25/2007 2:10:08 AM

pffft.

my dog will abuse you

the vacuum cleaner is her mortal enemy. (well that, and squirrels)

she does this really cool manuever: attack, then withdraw. attack, then withdraw. run to the other side of the room, hide for a bit. run back, attack, then withdraw.

the vacuum cleaner has huge gouges all over the front of it where she bites it. shes pulled it out of my hand and tipped it on a couple occasions.

4/25/2007 2:32:33 AM

Quote :

"interesting take, parallels something i heard about freeing up gun laws more.... personally, if i had a piece and that shit was happening near me i'd attempt to hunt the bastard down and preferably shoot his arms or knee's.... if not just chest (again entirely situational with regards to aiming/ability)"

Thats just what the cops needed.... civilians running around with guns trying to hunt down the killer. That wouldn't have caused confusion with the cops.

4/25/2007 9:26:55 AM

Quote :

"On the whole, though, I do think we're too inclined to submit. Too inclined to expect protection. I seriously doubt Cho would have done as well in, say, 16th-century England."

For some reason, I pictured:

4/25/2007 11:47:52 AM

Quote :

"Thats just what the cops needed.... civilians running around with guns trying to hunt down the killer. That wouldn't have caused confusion with the cops."

Have you ever actually asked cops what they think about gun control or law-abiding citizens carrying concealed?

4/25/2007 11:50:45 AM

We really need to ship Mark Steyn and John "Let's Rush a Guy with two Handguns" Derbyshire off to Iraq or some other shithole so they can show us what an alpha male they are.

Also, I may be wrong, but wasn't the Appalachian State shooter subdued by two off-duty police officers after he used all of his ammunition?

4/25/2007 12:11:00 PM

Lets be honest, a bunch of unorganized college students anybodies running around with guns, hunting the killer, in the heat of the moment would have killed more each other than they would have saved. Likewise the police, who are trained for self-defense, not active pursuit, would have faired little better, though their uniforms might have aided in identification. In the heat of the moment, the only thing most people are capable of (if that) is immediate self defense of themselves and those surrounding them.

Comparing this to other events is hard largely because the shooter held all of the momentum throughout the entire shooting. He was skilled, on the offensive, took advantage of his ability to segment his targets and pick them off in small groups, and had planned out his attack. His victims had to respond to a man with overwhelming firepower and the ability to sustain that firepower over long periods of time. One guy charging him, getting shot in the face and laying on the floor in a bloody pulp is a huge psychological deterrent for those around him. The only reason the opposite response of flight is elicited in a military organization is the camaraderie that has been deliberately built up by training.

/words

4/25/2007 12:57:15 PM

oeuvre is abonorio i'm pretty sure.

4/25/2007 4:13:17 PM

Well, that explains the faggotry.

4/25/2007 4:49:22 PM

Quote :

"One guy charging him, getting shot in the face and laying on the floor in a bloody pulp is a huge psychological deterrent for those around him."

Did that actually happen?

4/25/2007 4:57:49 PM

I'da charged his ass. But then again:

1. I'm crazy stupid.
2. I don't value my life.
3. Most of the time, I genuinely believe I'm invincible.

Makings of a hero right here, folks.

4/25/2007 5:36:52 PM

Quote :

"The only reason the opposite response of flight is elicited in a military organization is the camaraderie that has been deliberately built up by training. "

nail. head. hit it.

4/25/2007 6:20:47 PM

It's not just military thing. It's matter of pride for some people.

For example, one man, after being stabbed in the heart, walked a block or two to find a broken bottle, then walked back to confront the guy who'd stab him. (He passed out at this point.)

I've read 14th-century accounts of stabbing victims drawing weapons of their own and running after their attackers.

As for modern times, here's what could have happened:

Quote :

"When Xiang stopped shooting and moved to switch weapons, Lee Gordon-Brown, the injured lecturer, grabbed Xiang's hands as he reached into his jacket. Gordon-Brown and a student in the room, Alastair Boast, a trained kung fu practitioner, tackled him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_University_shooting

And another:

Quote :

"Several beat the attacker with a chair and bottles and pushed him outside where he was shot by police."

Quote :

""When I saw the Arab I ran toward him with a chair," said the truck driver. "I threw the chair at him." He said he hit the attacker in the face with the chair while other people threw bottles at him."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,635449,00.html

Dude even had an assault rifle.

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 8:28 PM. Reason : d]

4/25/2007 8:16:02 PM

its real easy for us to say in the safety of our homes with benefit of hindsight how we'd have behaved more heroically in a similar circumstance.

all of us like to think that we'd rally our fellow students, choose a few beefy guys to help lead the charge, while barking orders to the meek and weak to take cover and/or escape.

and yeah, lets pull out similar but unrelated stories of how targets defended themselves against their attackers in completely different circumstances.

but since none of us were there, none of us can claim to know what the circumstances were /really/ like or how we would have responded.

i like to imagine myself doing my best 10-yard sprint ever as I tackled the sonofabitch, put him in a full nelson, then beat his head on the floor til he went unconscious waiting for cops to show up.

but you know, i can realistically see myself pissing my pants a bit as a shooter pops in and unloads multiple rounds into kids near the door, looks at me halfway across the room, and the best i can do is hit the deck and try and get under a desk or table.

so fuck anyone who says the students should have done more.





[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 9:44 PM. Reason : ]

4/25/2007 9:29:21 PM

Quote :

"and yeah, lets pull out similar but unrelated stories of how targets defended themselves against their attackers in completely different circumstances."

Similar, not completely different. You got it right the first time.

4/25/2007 10:03:08 PM

I do support a discussion into general ideas about this kind of thing.

Specific conversations about scenarios and classroom sizes and techniques and what could have been done are just silly though.

On the topic of general ideas, the "Let's Roll" moment is an outlier for human behavior. Look back on history and tell me that ain't the truth. I'm sure you can find me dozens of moments where it's gone down, leaving millions of moments where it hasn't. We can analyze those moments together, but information will be difficult to glean, and if gleaned, difficult to apply to anything real.

I personally think the general "Let's Roll" moments are built up so big that they hinder society...and have for centuries. We record the "rollers." We become fascinated and obsessed with them until they are barely human, until they are unlike us, and we are unlike them. Next thing you know, kids think George Washington was the pivotal figure in the revolution and not the thousands of men who fought, suffered, and died for this nation. The way we record events disempowers us as a people. As long as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is beatified, the people will be debased.

4/25/2007 10:59:02 PM

^ I don't really agree. I'm partial to the cultural argument, even though it makes me sound like a conservative. Back in the day, men were men. In 16th-century England, for example, almost everyone trained with weapons. When the majority of people knows how to fight and value personal honor, they're more inclined to resist.

4/25/2007 11:04:20 PM

Quote :

"In 16th-century England, for example, almost everyone trained with weapons. "

yeah thats right. bring back the monarchs, and aristocratic duels.


hey wait a minute....

youre one of those SCA roleplaying dudes ain'tcha?








[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/25/2007 11:11:24 PM

^^Weren't there tons of slaves and serfs in the 16th century?

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 11:11 PM. Reason : ?]

4/25/2007 11:11:32 PM

Quote :

"yeah thats right. bring back the monarchs, and aristocratic duels."

As you suggest, there certainly are problems associated with a more martial culture.

Quote :

"youre one of those SCA roleplaying dudes ain'tcha?"

Not exactly, but close.

Quote :

"Weren't there tons of slaves and serfs in the 16th century?"

In England? Not so much. Serfdom as a personal status was mostly gone by the start of the 16th century.

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 11:21 PM. Reason : d]

4/25/2007 11:20:25 PM

hey

lets dress up like knights and go joust.

4/25/2007 11:30:14 PM

^^I didn't realize we were basing everything on England. I find it hard to believe that everybody was "rolling" there anyway.

And maybe I'm underestimating the past and the present. Maybe there are plenty of folks in the past who "rolled," and plenty of folks in the present who I consider criminals who are, in fact, "rollers."

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 11:42 PM. Reason : sss]

4/25/2007 11:41:51 PM

Quote :

"I didn't realize we were basing everything on England. I find it hard to believe that everybody was "rolling" there anyway."

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. I'm saying that a more martial culture makes people more likely to fight back. That doesn't mean they were all heroes or anything like that. Modern warriors are the same way. Note that the hero in the Virginia Tech shooting, that Jewish prof, had experience with violence.

As far as criminals go, I do think today's violent criminals would be more prone to resist a shooter.

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 11:56 PM. Reason : d]

4/25/2007 11:50:31 PM

^Warrior, warrior...we need to address the definition of "rolling."

Are we talking about military or general folks doing what they have to do to pay rent and other bills?

I'm sure you've already discussed it in this thread...but rediscuss it with me...should we all be military trained?

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 12:01 AM. Reason : sss]

4/26/2007 12:00:14 AM

Quote :

"should we all be military trained?"

I'm not saying we should be, but I do think that'd make us more likely to resist shooters such as Cho.

Really, though, it's very unlikely any of us will encounter such a threat in our lives.

4/26/2007 12:08:35 AM

Okay, joking.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 12:19 AM. Reason : ...]

4/26/2007 12:17:08 AM

okay...


I love her as much as anyone... but godamn, if we dont have

BridgetSPK arguing with some RenaissanceFaireDude

about the philosophical and logistical feasability of arming and training our population in a some imaginary 16th Century English Combat System

:rolly-fucking-eyes:

theDuke866 please come here and lock this retarded shit.

Chit Chat is laughing at us.

4/26/2007 12:27:47 AM

Quote :

"about the philosophical and logistical feasability of arming and training our population in a some imaginary 16th Century English Combat System"

What the hell are you talking about? I've never suggested that.

4/26/2007 12:31:13 AM

^^Nobody loves me. I am totally and completely on my own if you haven't noticed. So when somebody claims to enjoy me or my posts, I'm kinda annoyed that nobody has backed me up before.



As far as this particular argument goes, I believe in it. We are not all trained in all sorts of shit, which means we don't all have to be trained in all sorts of shit...unless we want to be "rollers." The several "rolls" we see are, again, outliers.

4/26/2007 1:09:38 AM

These days, yes. They tend to be people who've trained for and/or experienced violence.

4/26/2007 1:13:10 AM

4/26/2007 1:15:10 AM

^^^

just becasue i dont say i love you, doesnt mean i dont love you

Ive often enjoyed your posts. a few have been pretty profound. many are funny and/or dead on target.

...but then other times i think maybe you're just another dumb hillbilly.







(and yeah, my joe_schmoe just got suspended by OmarBadu because I made a parody thread in the Lounge. which normally wouldnt be suspend-worthy, except i had just pwnt him for being a dumbass in /message_topic.aspx?topic=474249&page=1#10290213 )




[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 3:22 AM. Reason : ]

4/26/2007 3:19:24 AM

^ No, it's probably because you're an asshole. Typical.

4/26/2007 3:27:47 AM

^ I'm going to have to go with "the mod was an asshat" on this one.

4/26/2007 9:19:00 PM

OmarBadu is the worst for getting a damn power trip about being a mod. Kid obviously has the smallest dick on the whole fucking site.

4/26/2007 9:39:16 PM

Quote :

"Have you ever actually asked cops what they think about gun control or law-abiding citizens carrying concealed?"

What does that have to do with anything? I was just saying in that moment, having other students running around with guns trying to take matters into their own hands and hunt down the killer on their own would probably lead to the cops mis-identifying them as the shooter and getting themselves shot.


I agree with charging him given the chance. Someone suggested that anyone with handguns of their own go around to "hunt down" the killer.

[Edited on April 27, 2007 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

4/27/2007 11:33:08 AM

I like how the thread was interesting until I read down to where Chance started posting and shit got retarded REAL fast.

Anyway, I like what Duke posted. I think the percentage of the population that has a developed capacity for cold, calculating, rage is small and rightfully so. Society couldn't function if the 'carebear' to 'violent' ratio wasn't extremely stacked one way. I personally, however, don't agree with anyone making opinionated remarks on actions taken during extreme stress. How many of you would react immediately if while having a normal conversation about Burger King, I pulled a gun on you? I'm willing to bet very few.

4/27/2007 12:57:15 PM

^damnit. stop inserting logic. i would beat you down with my ninja skills and then use my patented "rush of hannity numchucks" to kick your ass.

4/27/2007 1:50:02 PM

It's good to see posting actual evidence has had no effect on this thread.

Maybe in the future, guys like Lee Gordon-Brown will realize resistance is unpossible. Pretending to be dead and waiting to get shot is clearly the superior tactic.

4/27/2007 2:01:31 PM

You need to go ahead and read up which 'evidence' actually passes in a debate and which doesn't.

Everyone is not born to be a hero, you included. How someone might handle that situation can only be revealed when they actually are in that situation and people writing hardcore "This is what should have happened" horse shit passing judgement disgusts me.

4/27/2007 2:09:35 PM

Hey, we could stage a similar event here and see if they respond they way they said they would.

4/27/2007 2:10:33 PM