2.2 million people at least

[Edited on May 11, 2017 at 8:15 PM. Reason : Give or take ]

5/11/2017 8:15:11 PM

Exactly.

I meant among car enthusiasts.

5/11/2017 9:12:09 PM

Their superiority isn't as clearly defined as it once was, but they're still a great option.

5/11/2017 9:20:31 PM

I just don't think they're special enough to command their price premiums anymore.

Hell, if nothing else, I'd just buy an older BMW and have something better for vastly less money.

5/11/2017 9:53:18 PM

Well, people like us don't really buy new luxury cars to begin with

[Edited on May 11, 2017 at 11:00 PM. Reason : Who is consistently beating them for far less money?]

5/11/2017 10:59:45 PM

BMW design these days is shit and now their quality is shit too

5/12/2017 9:04:56 AM

Quote :

"I just don't think they're special enough to command their price premiums anymore."

That's a completely illogical way to think duke.

BMW doesn't go "our cars don't stir emotions in our enthusiasts like they used to, so let's charge less for them as the years go by, or at least freeze our prices."

Premise 1: Car prices have been going up across brands and across time
Premise 2: BMW is still a German luxury manufacturer at the same automotive stratum as it always has been

Deduction: Whatever they charge now is fair

I don't see where the "premium" is. They still charge whatever they have always charged, relative to other manufacturers (somewhere between Audi and MB).


For you people:

https://www.motor1.com/news/145314/classic-ads-bmw-e30/

A 4-minute E30 ad, plus some hi-res pics of assorted E30 models

5/12/2017 7:53:34 PM

^^^ I could pretty reasonably go buy a new 335i or whatever if I wanted to. I don't really want to, and I've never spent that much money on a car, and I'm too frugal to buy a new vehicle of any kind, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I mean, I could go buy a new whatever I wanted, I guess, but I'd really feel unreasonable if I bought a new M5 or something...and I don't want to have to give up anything else. Boating, sailing, SCUBA, skiing, flying, travel, motorcycles, guitars, whatever. I'd rather be able to do all that shit than just have a totally badass car.

I don't think anyone is consistently beating them for far less money. I think other makes are beating them fairly routinely now, which didn't used to happen, but not for meaningfully less money, and that's not my point anyway. I'm saying that as they soften up and go mass-market, there's less reason to buy BMW instead of Honda. I'm not saying that BMW doesn't build a better driver's car than Honda; I'm just saying that I don't think they are building something that would have me pay premium prices to purchase and operate it, or forsake Honda's impeccable reliability and longevity in favor of a more "special" car. Is it more special? Sure. Is it special enough to justify it? Not anymore, at least in my book.

If nothing else, BMW isn't beating their own previous products. What would you rather have? A 2012 model F30 335i or a 2011 E90 335i?

^ right, of course, all of that is true, and I get why they've gone that way from a business perspective. There are more mass-market drivers than enthusiasts; that's why it's "mass" market. Also, we're headed towards automation, and they're starting to change their focus towards technology instead of being the Ultimate Driving Machine for an age without drivers.

I'm just saying that they are nothing like what they used to be. There are good reasons, but they are no longer a maker of cars that I, or many other enthusiasts, really covet like we used to. I mean, sure, I'd rather someone give me a 335i than a Camry, but there is a 0% chance of me buying a new 335i. A few years back, I gave some very serious thought towards buying a CPO 135i or 335i.

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 9:45 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 9:51 PM. Reason : ]

5/12/2017 9:43:59 PM

Well OK I agree with that if that's what you meant!

5/12/2017 11:15:01 PM

Also for you people:

https://www.motor1.com/news/145226/remembering-the-bmw-8-series/

Brief walk down the memory lane with info about the E31, plus large hi-res pics of the E31 as well as of a meeting of E31 owners in Russia, at least a few dozen in one place!

BTW, I remember it clearly from my childhood. I was in love it. It looked and looks great. But as the article above says, reliability was terrible, and so was performance. So why does it have a cult following?

Oh, and the article says you can get one now for <= $10K!

5/13/2017 3:39:25 AM

Quote :

"I could pretty reasonably go buy a new 335i or whatever if I wanted to. I don't really want to, and I've never spent that much money on a car, and I'm too frugal to buy a new vehicle of any kind, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal."

Yeah I didn't say that we can't afford to buy new luxury cars, just that we don't. Let someone else eat that depreciation.

Quote :

"there is a 0% chance of me buying a new 335i"

See above. Also if you you were to buy new, what would you buy?

Quote :

"I'm just saying that they are nothing like what they used to be."

Have you driven some of the latest models, or are you going off of specs and internet posts?

I'm wondering if they've truly regressed, of if it's just that some of the competition finally caught up with them mixed with a bit of everyone hating current cars because they're too heavy with too many safety feature and too high fenders yada yada yada.

5/13/2017 9:24:29 AM

if i was buying new and had to have a luxury sport sedan, i'd probably go for a cts-v or ats-v over the bmw 9 out 10 times.

5/14/2017 11:10:45 AM

only 9 out of 10?

5/14/2017 2:29:43 PM

^^ you've driven both?

On a related topic what year CTS-V should I get to replace my 07 335i?

5/14/2017 4:00:47 PM

If I were to buy a new car...hmm. Maybe a Mustang GT or GT350?

Quote :

"Have you driven some of the latest models, or are you going off of specs and internet posts?"

I've driven a 650 and a 535. They're very nice cars, but each was kind of a letdown, and the F10 535 was a step substantial backwards from the E60 to me (haven't driven any other 6-series cars).

I haven't driven any of the latest generation 3-series cars, but I can imagine, I think, based on the 5s and what ever reviewer on the planet says.

Quote :

"'m wondering if they've truly regressed, of if it's just that some of the competition finally caught up with them mixed with a bit of everyone hating current cars because they're too heavy with too many safety feature and too high fenders yada yada yada."

I think it's some of all 3.

#1 is disappointing, #2 is promising, #3 is downright distressing.

Quote :

"On a related topic what year CTS-V should I get to replace my 07 335i?"

You shouldn't. You might have the best all-around everyday car ever produced!

5/14/2017 7:39:21 PM

the cts-v is a BIG car but the first year they put in the supercharged v8 is probably what I'd be after. I drove it and felt like a yacht. The ats-v was much smaller on the outside, though it didn't feel as nimble as my m3 despite being much closer in size it felt like I'd just put better wheels/tires/steering on the cts-v.

5/15/2017 12:03:51 AM

I believe the current generation CTS is lighter than the previous gen. And 640hp is pretty sweet but I would imagine they're still pretty expensive.

Quote :

"BMW design these days is shit and now their quality is shit too"

Personally I think their current styling is better than what it was 10 years ago.

5/15/2017 8:37:56 AM

Quote :

"You shouldn't. You might have the best all-around everyday car ever produced!"

I do love it, but I could love a more reliable version of it much more.

Currently considering a 2011-2012 135i...has anyone driven both cars and can compare them?

[Edited on May 22, 2017 at 3:26 PM. Reason : http://jalopnik.com/why-a-used-bmw-135i-is-the-best-bimmer-you-can-get-unde-1790778156]

5/22/2017 3:00:53 PM

I have, but not back to back, not recently, and not really in anger (although probably more angrily than most people ever would).

I liked it, but I think I'd probably rather just have an E90/E92 335i. I don't think the 135i offer meaningfully more from a performance standpoint, and it isn't much cheaper. I'd take the extra space, unless I found a screaming deal on a 1 first.

5/22/2017 6:41:24 PM

To be revealed later today... but leaked!

https://www.motor1.com/news/146570/bmw-8-series-concept-revealed/









Few more pics in link.

5/25/2017 1:02:50 PM

M8 Competition production model leaked!

https://www.motor1.com/news/282600/bmw-m8-competition-leaked

As much as 630 hp in the M8 and 650 hp in the Competition version.

M8 or AMG S63/65 Coupe?

12/4/2018 2:40:26 PM

This isn't a direct competitor to the S Class coupe.

But I'd probably take the forthcoming Lexus LC performance model over this soft BMW.

12/4/2018 3:19:37 PM

I don't think the M8 can be characterized as 'soft'!

I would say the 8-series is the closest thing to a direct competitor to the S-Class Coupe.

12/6/2018 12:07:02 AM

4500 lb and AWD, sounds soft.

This is a direct replacement for the 6 Series, which didn't compete with the S Class.


(Can't believe I said I'd prefer a Lexus to a BMW, wtf)

12/6/2018 9:00:04 AM

Which luxo-performance GT of that size is not that heavy? If weight defines softness, then they are all soft, including the S-Class Coupe AMGs and the upcoming LC F. The M5 is being acclaimed as the best M5 ever in terms of performance, and especially so because of its adjustable AWD system. The M8 is getting all the same mechanical underpinnings, and even more power.

Depends on how you see it. If you see it as a revived 8-series, then yes, it competes with S-Class coupe. Anyway, what car a given car competes with is somewhat subjective. Automakers rarely say whether their car competes with this or that car.

The 850i is about $25K more than the defunct 650i, and the M8 will be comparably more expensive than the M6. It is also way more powerful and luxurious. So yes, it does compete with the S-Class Coupe in price, power, and luxury. You bet nearly every single buyer looking at any one of those will also consider the other.

12/6/2018 11:07:26 PM

Quote :

" then they are all soft, including the S-Class Coupe AMGs"

Haha, I mean yeah. These have always been soft.

12/7/2018 8:53:15 AM

Then why would you take the Lexus LC over the S-Class Coupe or 8-series if they are all soft? What has the Lexus got (other than style, which is subjective) which the other two don't?

12/9/2018 5:27:53 AM

A glorious screaming naturally aspirated V8 engine.

Just talking shit I guess. Gave up on the BMW ultimate synthetic driving experience a few years ago.

[Edited on December 10, 2018 at 9:16 AM. Reason : ]

12/10/2018 9:14:26 AM