could clinton fit in any more cliches and buzzwords into her responses?

4/26/2007 7:32:59 PM

Be careful in your enthusiasm...

Sen. Gravel strongly supports the FairTax.

4/26/2007 7:40:15 PM

I don't deny that the Fair Tax sells well.

Just that it's a bad idea.

That's for another thread (and a totally different mood on my behalf).

---

PS Clinton Inaccuracy FTL

Seung-Hui Cho was not declared a danger to himself and others. Only himself.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:42 PM. Reason : ...]

4/26/2007 7:41:24 PM

^^ I doubt the people that like Gravel support your or my views on libertarian policies.

I do appreciate politicians that don't hold back and just say what they're thinking. What other Democratic candidate would say that to Hillary and Obama?

He also supports direct democracy.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:42 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:42:12 PM

Was Clinton the only one that did not have a gun in the house?

4/26/2007 7:43:41 PM

No. Neither did Edwards or Obama.

I rewound it on DVR and checked.

4/26/2007 7:45:38 PM

^
She didn't....but Vince Foster did.

4/26/2007 7:46:16 PM

^^ Thanks.

Wouldn't have figured that for Edwards.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:46 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:46:38 PM

Tell me truly, EarthDogg. Would Badnarik deregulate the aluminum industry?

4/26/2007 7:49:22 PM

4/26/2007 7:54:46 PM

Richardson doesn't strike me as being comfortable.

4/26/2007 7:56:38 PM

http://www.zod2008.com/

4/26/2007 7:57:51 PM

Come one, come all, to the Bush bashing circle jerk extravaganza of the century!

4/26/2007 8:02:00 PM

^ Well, duh. Did you expect anything different?

4/26/2007 8:08:00 PM

Hold them responsible.....Potentially take a stance to dismantle that organization??

I feel safer already.

4/26/2007 8:13:38 PM

I thought the tree thing was pretty good
-Obama

4/26/2007 8:24:38 PM

Obama and Kucinich are scrappin

4/26/2007 8:25:30 PM

edwards is fuckin up

4/26/2007 8:27:20 PM

WHO THE HELL ARE WE GONNA NUKE???

4/26/2007 8:27:23 PM

WTF HERB IS THERE

4/26/2007 8:35:32 PM

Wow..these two MSNBC commentors love Hillary et al Who would've thought?

4/26/2007 8:38:27 PM

I actually hate I missed it. Informing or just long political commercial? I was working late, trying to provide more taxable income for them to give away.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 8:42 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 8:41:27 PM

One man's opinion:

Helped themselves from position before-

Biden (made his points clear, at least he's an idea guy)
Gravel (from nothing to a person that made himself stand out)
Obama (did okay and he did not hurt himself, which some were expecting)

Hurt themselves from position before-

Richardson (that Hispanic comment with Gonzales...my God that sounded bad)
Edwards (just didn't seem there, and he missed an easy pitch with his moral leader)

Same position as before-

H. Clinton
Dodd
Kucinich (I think his thunder got stolen by Gravel)





List of questions. Did my best, might be a bit wrong.

Questions/Follow-up/Audience Questions

Clinton 8/2/2
Biden 8/0/3
Obama 7/2/3
Richardson 7/1/3
Edwards 7/1/2
Dodd 6/0/2
Gravel 5/2/1
Kucinich 5/1/2

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 8:49 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 8:48:29 PM

^^^^^Edwards on one of the last questions where he was asked to pick a moral leader and he choose God first, then moved on to a few other people he respects and why... that seemed like he was a little taken aback. But I think he spoke intelligently on alot of other issues. And he seemed to have more specific numbers than any others especially on environment & oil issues.

4/26/2007 8:48:31 PM

^did he give the numbers on the amount of fuel his private jet used? since he is so concerned for the environment?

4/26/2007 8:58:43 PM

Gravel is a character

4/26/2007 9:06:57 PM

my picks

winners: gravel, obama, kucinich (in that order)

clinton did as good as i expected out of her, mediocre

edwards did poorly, but he also had some shitty questions

i never even heard of gravel until today, and i was really surprised because he is probably the fist politician who matches my personality, which is weird to see. he was pretty awesome.

4/26/2007 9:08:48 PM

he cursed multiple times and yelled the most...thats my kind of president

4/26/2007 9:10:00 PM

^ That's representative of most people that have a passing interest in politics in this country.

4/26/2007 9:13:02 PM

^^^^^Because he’s the only person in politics to fly like that.

It’s unrealistic to think you can campaign for president effectively without flying. But I think its one of those carbon neutral things where they plant a tree for everyone they kill with emission or whatever bs that is.

But seriously his stances on the environment would do a lot more good for it, than his campaign does harm.

Quote :

" "Our generation must be the one that says, 'we must halt global warming.' Our generation must be the one that says 'yes' to renewable fuels and ends forever our dependence on foreign oil. And our generation must be the one that builds the new energy economy. It won't be easy, but it is time to ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war." – John Edwards Our generation must be the one that ends our nation's dependence on oil and ushers in a new energy economy. We need energy independence from unstable and hostile areas of the world, from global warming pollution, and from the old ways of doing business. If we harness American ingenuity to reach for transformative change, we can emerge from the crisis of global warming with a new energy economy that stimulates innovation, brings the family farm back to life, and creates more than 1 million jobs in America's farms and industries. Today, John Edwards called for America to embrace three great goals for this generation: • Halt global warming by capping and reducing greenhouse gas pollution and leading the world to a new global climate change treaty. • Create a new energy economy and 1 million new jobs by investing in clean, renewable energy, sparking innovation, a new era in American industry, and life in family farms. • Meet the demand for new electricity through efficiency for the next decade, instead of producing more power. As a result of the Edwards plan, by 2025 America will import 7.5 million fewer barrels of oil a day, produce 65 billion gallons of ethanol and other biofuels a year, generate 25 percent of our electricity from renewable sources, and produce more than 2 billion fewer tons of carbon dioxide emissions a year. Within a generation, America's cars and trucks will be virtually petroleum-free. Halting Global Warming by Capping Carbon Emissions The planet has gotten nearly 1 degree Fahrenheit hotter over the past 30 years and will get another degree hotter due to greenhouse gas pollution already in the atmosphere. The ten hottest years on record have all occurred since 1990. If we don't change course soon, we will see dramatic climate changes and a different planet. The last time the Earth was 4 or 5 degrees warmer -- 3 million years ago -- there was no ice in the Arctic and sea levels were 80 feet higher. [Hansen, 2/26/2007; NRDC, 2007] • Earlier this year, the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change -- an international network of over 2,000 climate scientists -- concluded that evidence of global warming is "unequivocal" and human activity is "very likely" the cause. [NYT, 2/3/2007] • Next month, the panel is expected to report that, without changes, within decades climate change could cause hundreds of millions of people to suffer water shortages and tens of millions to be flooded out of their homes annually. By 2080, hundreds of millions could starve. [AP, 3/11/2007] The Edwards Plan: • Cap and Reduce Global Warming Pollution: Edwards will set an economy-wide limit on the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. He will build on the precedent of the Clean Air Act of 1990 -- which limited pollution causing acid rain through a sulfur dioxide cap-and-trade system -- to reduce pollution in a cost-effective and flexible manner. o Use Science to Set the Caps: Edwards will cap greenhouse gases at levels that the latest climate science has determined to be necessary to avoid the worst impacts of global warming. He will cap greenhouse pollution starting in 2010, reduce it by 15 percent by 2020, and reduce it by 80 percent by 2050, consistent with the most aggressive plans under consideration in Washington. o Make Polluters Pay: Edwards will auction off a portion of the pollution permits to raise $10 billion a year for a New Energy Economy Fund to jumpstart clean, renewable, and efficient energy technologies and create 1 million jobs. Other permits will be sold or given away. • Lead the World toward a New Global Climate Change Treaty: Climate change is an international problem and the U.S. can never solve it alone. China is building the equivalent of one large coal-fired power plant a week and is expected to pass the U.S. as the world's largest polluter of carbon dioxide in 2009. [NYT, 3/17/2007; WSJ, 3/3/2007] To lead the world toward a new, effective climate change treaty, Edwards will: o Make Our Own Commitments to Restore Our Moral Leadership: The U.S. has 4 percent of the world's population but produces a quarter of its carbon dioxide emissions. It is one of only three developed nations that has refused to limit its greenhouse gas pollution. By adopting caps, Edwards will help the U.S. regain credibility in the world without sacrificing American competitiveness. [Irish Times, 2/14/2007; Greenwire, 10/31/2006] o Involve Developing Economies: Any climate change treaty must include developing countries, which emit significant amounts of carbon and could otherwise serve as a haven for polluters. However, these nations are poorer than the U.S. and emit far less carbon per capita. To bring them to the table, Edwards will share America's clean energy technology in exchange for binding greenhouse reduction commitments. If necessary, he will insist that strong labor and environmental standards in our trade deals include commitments on climate change. This new deal will require global participation, promote shared responsibility, and let American workers and businesses compete on a level playing field. Creating the New Energy Economy and 1 Million Jobs In the past, America squandered opportunities to lead the world in energy technology. Bell Labs invented the solar cell in New Jersey in 1954, but today 90 percent of solar panels are manufactured overseas. GM made the first modern electric car, but today Toyota and Honda lead the world in hybrid cars. Oil companies are slow to sell alternative fuels at their gas stations, while Brazil increased the share of new cars that run on ethanol from 4 percent to 70 percent in only three years. [Economist, 3/10/2007; HybridCars.com, 2007; GM, 2007; Edmunds.com, 2007; Khosla, 2006] John Edwards believes that American entrepreneurs, farmers and manufacturers can lead the world in technology to generate clean, reliable energy and use it more efficiently. "Clean tech" is the hottest new area of venture capital funding. California-based Tesla Motors sells an electric roadster that gets 135 miles a gallon and can go from 0-to-60 in four seconds. In rural America, hundreds of small renewable energy companies are generating new jobs in ethanol and other biofuels, wind, and solar. The increased demand for the machinery of renewable energy -- such as wind turbines, solar panels and biomass engines -- is an opportunity to create "green collar" jobs and reenergize America's manufacturing sector. [Newsweek, 6/21/2006; Iowa Renewable Fuels Association, 2006; Makower, Pernick, and Wilder, 2006; Apollo Alliance, 2006] "

4/26/2007 9:16:45 PM

Quote :

"The Edwards Plan: Create the New Energy Economy Fund: To jumpstart our investment in the future, Edwards will create the $13 billion-a-year New Energy Economy Fund. The fund will be financed by greenhouse gas polluters through the sale of emission permits and by ending taxpayer giveaways for big oil companies, including special tax subsidies and sweetheart terms in offshore drilling leases. The resources will double the Department of Energy's budget for efficiency and renewable energy, accelerate new energy technologies to market and help new businesses get started, encourage consumers to buy efficient products, and provide transition assistance to workers in carbon-intensive industries. Invest in Renewable Sources of Electricity: Renewable energy has been seen as socially desirable but costly. However, wind is already competitive with conventional sources in many markets. Solar could be competitive within three to eight years. [RAND, 2006; Economist, 3/10/2007] Make 25 Percent of Our Energy Renewable: Edwards will require power companies to generate 25 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2025. A large expansion of renewable energy can reduce costs under current trends, according to a 2006 RAND study. In Texas, a similar requirement achieved its goals quickly with negligible costs through the accelerated development of wind power. [RAND, 2006] Dedicate Resources to Renewable Energy: Edwards will double the Department of Energy research budget, allowing it to reduce the cost and accelerate the marketability of current technologies to put clean solar, wind, and biomass into more communities. He will also encourage private investment by making permanent tax credits for the production of renewable energy; they currently expire at the end of 2008. Maximize the Potential of Cleaner, Safer Coal: Coal will be an important source of U.S. and global electricity for decades, but it is responsible for more than 30 percent of America's carbon dioxide emissions. Edwards will invest $1 billion a year to research ways to burn coal cleanly and recycle its carbon underground permanently. He will also strengthen mine safety laws to ensure it is mined safely. Two large power companies, TXU and American Electric Power, recently announced plans to build experimental plants to capture carbon. [NYT, 3/15/2007 and 3/17/2007; McFarland, Herzog, and Jacoby, 2007] Transform the Auto Industry to Lead the World in Cars of the Future: Edwards believes that everyone should be able to drive the car, truck or SUV of their choice and still enjoy high fuel economy. American automakers have the ingenuity to lead the world in building the clean, safe, economical cars of the future. Reduce Oil Imports by 7.5 Million Barrels a Day by 2025: America's need for imported oil forces it to rely on unstable and even hostile countries. Edwards called for a national goal to reduce oil imports by 7.5 million barrels a day by 2025 – nearly a third of the oil projected to be used in 2025 -- and get us on the path toward energy independence. [DOE, 2007] Help U.S. Automakers Modernize: Edwards will provide $1 billion a year to help U.S. automakers advance and apply the latest technology, including biofuels, hybrid and electric cars, hydrogen fuel cells, ultra-light materials, and drive train improvements. These resources will be financed from the New Energy Economy Fund and also help manufacturers meet higher fuel economy requirements. With a strong ethanol industry that includes cellulosic ethanol and hybrid and electric technology, American cars and trucks can be virtually petroleum-free within a generation. Produce 65 Billion Gallons of Ethanol a Year by 2025: However, although millions of ethanol-ready cars are on the roads, only about 600 of the 169,000 gas stations have pumps for E85, a blend of ethanol and gasoline. Edwards will require oil companies to install ethanol pumps at 25 percent of their gas stations and require all new cars sold after 2010 to be "flex fuel" cars running on either gasoline or biofuel. The New Economy Energy Fund will develop new methods of producing and using ethanol, including cellulosic ethanol, and offer loan guarantees to new refineries. [RAND, 2006; DOE, 2005; USDA, 2005] Raise Fuel Economy Standards: American cars and trucks are less efficient than they were two decades ago, despite the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards. Standards in China, Japan, and the European Union are between 40 and 100 percent higher. Edwards will raise standards to 40 miles per gallon by 2016, a step that could single-handedly reduce oil demand by 4 million barrels per day. [Pew Center on Global Climate Change, 2004; Reicher, 2007] Open the Electricity Grids to Distributed and Renewable Generation: Traditionally, electricity has been produced at large, central power plants and transmitted through miles of power lines. Distributed generation of electricity promises reliable, clean, cost-effective production that is less vulnerable to natural disasters and attacks. Farms, factories, schools, and communities ought to be able to establish their own power sources and compete with traditional plants to sell wholesale capacity, as New England has pioneered. [DOE, 2000; New England ISO, 2006] To open up the grid to innovation, Edwards will: Create Millions of Local Sources of Renewable Energy: Edwards will provide up to a $5,000 tax credit for homes and small businesses that invest in onsite generation of renewable energy like solar, wind, and geothermal power. He will also encourage local generation of renewable energy through "net metering," which allows families to sell extra power back to utilities for credits against their electricity bills. Encourage Distributed Generation: Edwards will cut the red tape that hinders new energy producers from selling their power to the grid. He will require utilities to consider distributed generation as a means of lowering costs compared to new investments in centralized production and transmission. Research the Next Generation of Small Scale Renewable Energy: Edwards will invest in researching more profitable sources of renewable energy generation. For example, biomass engines producing both heat and power that can be three times more efficient than traditional distribution. [Hill, 2001] "

4/26/2007 9:18:35 PM

Quote :

"Meet the Demand for More Electricity through Efficiency Americans can get more power out of the electricity now available, typically at half the cost of producing more supply. Duke Energy CEO James Rogers calls efficiency the "fifth fuel," and energy expert Amory Lovins says that "efficiency is cheaper than fuel." Between 1977 and 1985, the economy grew by 27 percent while oil use fell by 17 percent. Once again, there are large energy savings possible today in energy generation, transmission, and use in homes, factories, and offices. For example, if every home installed five compact fluorescent lightbulbs, it would eliminate the need for 21 power plants. However, in our current system, utilities earn profits by selling power not meeting energy needs more efficiently. Ordinary Americans often lack the tools they need to use energy more efficiently. [ACEEE, 2006; Reicher, 2007; Globe and Mail, 2/24/2007; The New Yorker, 1/22/2007; McKinsey, 2006] The Edwards Plan: Meet New Demand for Electricity through Efficiency for the Next Decade: Electricity demand is projected to increase by 1.5 percent a year between 2008 and 2018, on average. Edwards called for a national goal of meeting this demand by getting more power out of the electricity we use now, instead of producing more electricity. As a result, electricity use would be 15 lower by 2018 and renewable energy would have a better opportunity to gain market share. Increased efficiency includes managing peaks in demand and modernizing the electric grid and is largely achievable with current technology. [DOE, 2007; EPA Energy Star, 2006] Make Efficiency Profitable for Utilities: Most utilities profit from selling electricity, even when it would be cheaper to help their customers use less energy. Edwards will call on states to decouple utilities' energy profits from sales, as California and nine other states have done, so they can focus on serving customer needs. States can also reward utilities for meeting green energy targets. [National Regulatory Research Institute, 2006] Expand Smart Meters and Smart Grids to Use Energy More Wisely: By simultaneously displaying energy use and price, smart meters encourage consumers to use less energy and to use energy when it can be generated less expensively. Utilities can also use information technology to monitor electricity demand, allowing them to plan their production more efficiently. [Nemtzow, 2007; Regulatory Assistance Project, 2006] Invest in Weatherized Homes and More Efficient Buildings and Appliances: Upgrading home furnaces, ducts, windows, and insulation can cut energy bills by 20 to 40 percent, year after year. However, the existing Department of Energy weatherization program reaches only 100,000 homes a year while more than 28 million remain eligible. Similarly, appliance efficiency standards have greatly reduced the energy use of refrigerators and air conditioners, but better use of the Energy Star program could save even more. Edwards will reverse the Bush budget cuts to the weatherization program and instead expand it to $500 million a year. He will call on states to create updated energy building codes. Finally, he will raise federal efficiency standards for appliances and maximize the potential of the Energy Star program by working to get more efficient appliances in stores and educating buyers and builders. [Reicher, 2007; ACEEE 2005] Reduce the U.S. Government's Energy Use by 20 Percent and Make the White House Carbon Neutral. The U.S. government is the nation's single largest energy consumer, with a $15 billion energy bill in 2005. However, its investments in energy efficiency have been cut in half since 2001. Edwards will overhaul federal buildings and vehicles to emphasize efficiency, reducing the use of energy by 20 percent, and expand the government's use of renewable sources. After taking energy efficiency steps at the White House, he will purchase carbon offsets to make it carbon-neutral. [DOE, 2006; Alliance to Save Energy, 2007] Create GreenCorps: Idealistic young Americans can help fight climate change by conducting volunteer energy audits, weatherizing homes, installing home solar panels, and training neighborhood groups to do the same. Edwards will create a GreenCorps within AmeriCorps to create opportunities for them to serve."

4/26/2007 9:21:17 PM

isn't there already a thread for that?

4/26/2007 9:32:08 PM

Matthews is pissed

4/26/2007 9:32:18 PM

did matthews say "dicking around"?

4/26/2007 9:36:14 PM

Quote :

"and it almost did work for Gore...he didnt exactly lose by a lot"

get something straight, Gore won the election, the supreme court placed bush in office.

4/26/2007 11:09:56 PM

4/26/2007 11:15:16 PM

Can you post the map where the counties are adjusted to their electoral weight please? That way counties in Texas with 60 voters don't look large. Thanks.

4/26/2007 11:16:41 PM

the amount of counties you win means nothing when most of those counties contain 1/4 of the numbers of people that the counties Gore carried.

Gore won the popular vote anyway, and had the GOP not bitched about a recount and taken it to the supreme court, he probably would have taken Dade county and won florida.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 11:19 PM. Reason : b]

4/26/2007 11:17:17 PM

I can't find the weighted map for 2000, but here's 2004.

Unweighted


Weighted


Gradient/Weighted

4/26/2007 11:22:54 PM

hey ben94gt, you ought to name yourself ben2000gt since thats the year you're still living in

4/26/2007 11:27:09 PM

thats a great one. Maybe I will, thanks for the suggestion.

you were the one who first brought it up, may I add. I just felt the need to correct you.

4/26/2007 11:35:03 PM

i simply pointed out that the 2000 election was close...i will say that bush barely lost the popular vote and gore barely lost the electoral college...but the point i was making was that being associated with a disliked president just because he's in your party doesnt guarantee that you'll get crushed in an upcoming election...and nobody running for the republicans is as close to bush as gore was close to clinton

4/26/2007 11:37:12 PM

People talk about Clinton like hes a huge piece of shit or something. Honestly, I think he was one of the best presidents of the century. He got some head in the whitehouse and lied about it, yea, Im sure he's not the first. I dont comprehend though how some republican's Ive talked to get so incensed at the mention of Clinton because he got some head in the white house and lied about it, but then dont seem to care at the massive number of people, including americans, have died from blatant lies.

4/26/2007 11:41:08 PM

i'll agree that clinton was one of the 2 best presidents of the 21st century


i personally like Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton and Bush Jr just cause i'll support whoever is in power

but based on the previous claim that the Democratic candidate this year can just say "my opponent is in W's party...nuff said" and win the election and pointing to Gore losing in 2000 as his only evidence is obviously not true

4/26/2007 11:44:51 PM

Quote :

"incensed at the mention of Clinton because he got some head in the white house "

if he wants to bwn out fat chicks on the side thats his business, whatever, that doesn't bother me, whatever floats his boat


it's the fact that he was worried about that more than doing his job

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 11:47 PM. Reason : and I still don't think he's the worst ever, I'd prefer him over the other dems]

4/26/2007 11:46:58 PM

yea, I mean, I dont hate a pres just because they are a republican, Ill admit, Bush Sr wasnt all that bad of a president. Im not a fan of Reagan though. The whole Iran-Contra thing where he got off pretty free. He cut school lunch funding for that whole lame brain SDI thing, I dunno, just seems like his priorities were in the wrong place.

4/27/2007 12:00:49 AM

^x8 Are you sure those are not just Jackson Pollock works?

4/27/2007 1:01:56 AM

when is the republican debate? next thursday?

4/27/2007 1:51:57 AM

^

yep

4/27/2007 9:16:26 AM