Quote :

"China has huge divisions and strife, the Communists just keep a tight cap on it. They crack down hard (ie kill) dissidents and no one ever hears about half the crap that goes on."

I'm not trying to gloss over China's internal issues: they do have significant hurdles, both with class divisions and ethnic unrest on the western frontier. However, even if they're going about it in a brutal way, the Chinese do have control over their problems.

India is making a lot of progress, but their government machinery was notorious. Once they get momentum built up, they'll be a powerful juggernaut, but they've still got a lot of catching up to do compared to the Chinese.

5/16/2007 9:43:35 AM

my next question comes from a garage thread and is about communism kinda

Quote :

" You're just hearing more publicity about conservation, doesnt mean all of the hundreds of millions of people in the US just gave up their trucks, poor air conditioning, and incandescent bulbs, etc. "

why cant the government make everyone use energy efficient light bulbs...like those ones that last 6000 hours and only use 12 watts but put out like 60 watts of light?

seems like one of those things that would make a country better if they made everyone use those kind of bulbs

5/16/2007 12:36:35 PM

Not necessarily. Compact florescent bulbs consume quite a bit more energy to manufacture, package, and transport than incandescent bulbs. They do consume a lot less energy to use, 1/3rd; but the savings only happens over a few thousand hours of use.

Now, not all light sockets are used at the same rate. Replacing the bulbs in your living room and bedroom will pay for themselves within six months, everything after that is profit. But replacing the bulbs in your closet or pantry? They are only used for a few minutes a day. What about the spare bedroom that is used for a few days a month? These bulbs may never pay back what they cost, either to the owners or to society at large.

Not to mention, the new bulbs contain mercury as well as other poisonous chemicals, a child left alone could accidentally poison themselves if they ate broken pieces (other risks, such as burning or electric shock are the same for both types of bulbs and are less likely to be fatal).

So, the solution is not to ban incandescent bulbs; just educate your friends in their use, such that they utilize them wherever sensible such as living room, bedrooms, kitchen, and any outdoor or hall lights that are left on.

5/16/2007 12:57:09 PM

dammit!

everytime i try to think of a way i'd like to use communism its always like proven wrong, or maybe not wrong but shown how it wouldnt work in certain situations(in this case the pantry, spare room examples)

5/16/2007 12:59:45 PM

What about LEDs?

5/16/2007 6:27:37 PM

Quote :

"China is sustaining a 10% economic growth for some years now. Their oil consumption (and need) continues to rise exponentially, doubling and doubling again. China’s military spending growth has been in the double-digits for almost two decades, and that isn’t including large portions that we know they are hiding [emphasis added]."

Quote :

"Human Rights: China continues to repress certain religious groups, including Christians. They have brutally cracked down on any organized groups that they view as a threat to Party rule."

Quote :

"Proliferation: China is a proven violator of non-proliferation treaties that keep such countries from access to delivery system technology. In 2003 the CIA reported to Congress, that 'firms in China provided dual-use missile-related items, raw materials, and/or assistance to … countries of proliferation concern such as Iran …and North Korea.' Look at the countries we are having problems with today: Iran is developing nuclear capabilities, and North Korea continues to develop its long-range missile program. We know China uses proliferation as a tool to gain influence."

Quote :

"China has continued to support Iran: China gets 13% of its energy resources from Iran. Naturally, China has dragged its feet to allow the U.N. Security Council to holding Iran economically accountable for its nuclear program. Two days ago, China has signed a 2.7 billion dollar oil refinery upgrade deal with Iran."

Senator James M. Inhofe, US-China Commission testimony, August 3-4, 2006

http://www.uscc.gov/hearings/2006hearings/written_testimonies/06_08_3_4wrts/06_08_3_4_inhofr_senator_statement.php



[Edited on May 16, 2007 at 11:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2007 11:17:01 PM

Quote :

"China has said it would attack Taiwan if the self-ruled island, which Beijing views as a renegade province, formally declares independence."

quick question...if taiwan is self-ruled, why would china care if they "formally" declared their independence...seems like they pretty much already independent

5/24/2007 10:13:02 PM

Its a matter of national pride. While Taiwan is fully independent politically, they consider themselves still a part of China (technically, they consider themselves as the official government for the entire Republic of China). If they declare independence, they're severing that link with the mainland which would be politically unacceptable.

Don't discount the power of nationalism, especially for such an ancient country with a massive chip on its shoulder. As a motivating force, it is on par with religion and radical political ideology.

5/24/2007 10:31:12 PM

It's a pride thing.

BTW, I predict the next "World War" to start between China and Russia, fighting over Siberian resources. India, Japan, the Koreas, and probably America will get involved.

5/24/2007 10:32:19 PM

^^thanks...although it seems like if china is worried about taiwan, that taiwan is not completely wanting to "consider themselves still a part of China"...idk i probably should wiki some stuff to get a better understanding

^interesting theory...never really thought of it like that...what do you mean by siberian resources?(like all the oil in russia or something?)

5/24/2007 11:22:25 PM

yeah, Oil in the ME and South America will probably run out long before the vast oil reserves in Siberia (which are so hard to get to that it's as cheap to buy it as to drill it right now, although that will change when the ME runs low). When that happens, Russia will have a near monopoly on possibly the most important resource in the world.

[Edited on May 24, 2007 at 11:32 PM. Reason : ]

5/24/2007 11:30:31 PM

all chinese citizens will, upon hearing the Doomsday Alarm ring, begin jumping up and down in unison.

the resulting shockwave will travel through the earth, focused by underground chinese buffers, to direct upon the West Coast fault line sending California into the ocean.

5/25/2007 4:28:22 AM

When judging China as a potential military threat to the US, you have to take a number of factors into account.

Capabilities:
-Economic Power and Interests
-Industrial Ability
-Available Natural Resources
-Relative Level of Technology
-Military Complex and Doctrine

Intent:
-Short Term Political Goals
-Long Tern Political Goals

Economically, a lot has already been said in this thread about China. They're kinda a big deal and they are getting bigger. Key things to note that have been brought up: eventually (next 10-15 years) they will have a recession. This will be a bigger deal in rural areas rather than urban, because the Chinese govt is sorta using distribution of wealth to the poorer classes as a way to decrease dissent. Still, the economy is growing nicely.

The industry would need a serious retooling to switch over to wartime production. This takes time and $$. We've already said they'll have the money because of their booming economy, so its just a question of how long. Year or two tops is my guess, most likely less.

Resources is tricky, because you're never exactly sure of what you are gonna need and when. Yes, there is the basics: basic metals, cloth, food, etc. The government will likely institute rationing to allocate resources to wartime production, but the Chinese people are probably already used to this from living in a communist country. I think only recently has China started to net export steel, so we know that industry is healthy.

Technologically China isn't doing badly. Make no mistake, they are not at the level of technology militarily that we are. I'll admit, I haven't checked in a while, but I would be surprised if the US wasn't still on top of the military tech scale. This remains huge when it comes to naval and air power.

As for the military, remember these simple things. The army is huge. They have nuclear weapons. That's about it. From a naval standpoint, they aren't even a concern. Their air force isn't bad. I confess I know precious little about Chinese military doctrine, but I'd tend to believe they'd worry first about their immediate neighbors and secondly about us.

As for their intentions, short term it would seem they'd be focusing on their continuing economic progress. When things are going well, you want to keep them going well. That usually doesn't involve fighting a war. Although war has been proven to help countries out of recessions... hmmm. Long term is anyones guess, and I'm too small a person to even floor an educated guess. Shot in the dark theory is that they'll beef with a neighbor, someone they can go over land to. That way they could continue focusing military spending on just two areas of the military, instead of also having to worry about building a navy.

5/25/2007 10:45:41 AM

My take:

Political Goals
China wants to reestablish itself as the premimenant political, economic, and military power in Eastern Asia. It served that role for nearly three millenia, and in their minds, there's no reason why it shouldn't reestablish itself as thus.

In the short term, they need to stabilize their economy, become more self-sufficient particularly on the high-skilled side, and raise the standard of living for the nation as a whole. China still has a very large economic disparity between the prosperous eastern coastal regions and the poor central and western provinces. Its a large, ticking social time bomb. The Chinese government realizes this and is trying to build up its economy and prosperity quickly before the resentment flows into social upheaval. That's why they're trying to establish so many economic ties throughout the world. They know that their expanding economy is their biggest advantage and they're playing it for what its worth.

In establishing itself again as the regional powerhouse, they need to also secure their territories. This is where Taiwan falls into the equation. Having what they consider a traditional Chinese territory break off into an independent nation would be unacceptable. This is where their military modernization falls in as well; modernization became a real issue when they got smacked around bad by the Vietnamese during the Sino-Vietnamese War in the late 70s.

5/25/2007 2:14:55 PM