^ Bush isn't a conservative. He's a Republican.

6/5/2007 9:55:01 AM

fair enough

6/5/2007 9:56:24 AM

And fucking Lindsey Graham can be tossed under the bus too.

6/5/2007 10:04:01 AM

Quote :

"by the way, alcohol related traffic stops make up 7.5% of all stops involving latinos, more than twice the average for black and white motorists."

I was wondering when someone was actually gonna put some stats in here, rather than just conjecture.

6/5/2007 10:18:55 AM

^ that stat is just NC, not nationwide. But still, valid statistics.

6/5/2007 10:20:24 AM

Quote :

"they are simply here to earn money, and do whatever they hell they want. they have no desire to partake in "the american dream"."

Without even reading past this, I'm laughing my ass off.

I'm pretty sure they've got the idea of the American Dream on lockdown. You just don't like what they're choosing to do with the money they're making.

Quote :

"amnesty bill proposes: - Illegal aliens not required to pay back taxes"

This is going to have to be in any bill on immigration. Can you imagine trying to calculate, then collect said tax money? Christ, we can't even get our OWN citizens to responsibly pay their taxes, and we know where most of them live.

6/5/2007 11:05:22 AM

^ so we shouldn't try?


Collecting taxes on you Mexicans is impossible, so... nevermind! Yo homes to Bel Air!

6/5/2007 11:06:49 AM

Quote :

"you'll find that the people most fired up about illegal immigration are legal immigrants who went through enormous cost and, in a lot of cases, years of waiting to emigrate to the U.S."

This comment reflects most of my family and relatives currently living in the US. Emigrated from Laos after the Vietnam war. Took them years and years to finally get over here. And hundreds (sometimes thousands) of dollars. Take into consideration that 1 dollar ~ 30 baht in Laos.

I'm not sure what we are trying to accomplish with this new "amnesty" bill. It will not solve our Social Security issues or any financial issue you can think of. It will not solve the border issue. The only thing I see it doing is ... nothing?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 11:08 AM. Reason : shrugs]

6/5/2007 11:07:30 AM

look at this broad's major

all this angst has its roots in the 'tuk er jerbs' dilema

6/5/2007 11:13:58 AM

Quote :

"so we shouldn't try?"

Nope. Why? To what purpose? Do you think these people have all that back-owed tax money just sitting around their house? You have no reliable way to know how long an immigrant has been in country, no reliable way of gauging their income over the period. If you start seizing money and property from all these immigrants, you're going to create a huge number of now even poorer, worse-off people. Yay! Let's create even MORE poor, lowest-class individuals who don't speak English and let them loose in our country! This will certainly lower crime, and provide a positive impact for our society.

We either need to annex Mexico, or figure out a way to make it worth staying in w/o annexation. Both suck immensely, and aren't short-term solutions. But until we fix the source of the problem, we're going to see the border continually hopped.

6/5/2007 11:18:50 AM

Quote :

"You have no reliable way to know how long an immigrant has been in country, no reliable way of gauging their income over the period. If you start seizing money and property from all these immigrants, you're going to create a huge number of now even poorer, worse-off people."

That's the problem. WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE! It's also not my job to make them rich. It is their job to pay their motherfucking taxes if they want to be here.

There's plenty of broke ass people in the US who ARE citizens and who DO pay taxes.

Why does the Mexican get the better end of the deal?

6/5/2007 11:25:07 AM

Quote :

"We either need to annex Mexico, or figure out a way to make it worth staying in w/o annexation. "

I'm all for this. Lets try to make MExico a better place to be as opposed to it being so shitty they're desperate to get here. Free trade is good, it will take some time though.

6/5/2007 11:26:07 AM

Quote :

"^ so we shouldn't try?"

What method do you propose to collect back taxes on income that was never reported, of which a record was never kept, going back an indeterminate amount of time? Let's say you manage to do this. How will you get the matching funds for those items that employers match?

6/5/2007 11:26:32 AM

^^haven't we learned yet not to fuck with other countries, period?

6/5/2007 11:31:58 AM

LOL, I don't see the problem with promoting capitalistic institutions in Mexico through fiduciary assistance. Especially when they are practically begging for any type of foreign investment and development.

6/5/2007 11:41:16 AM

Quote :

"Why does the Mexican get the better end of the deal?"

Because the same people that gripe about them not paying taxes are the same people that don't want to provide better paths for them to arrive and work here legally? I mean, they are going to be here either way.

6/5/2007 11:44:02 AM

Can our country learn anything from history?

Quote :

" Immigration Reform and Control Act Nov 1986: The law established a one-year amnesty program for illegal immigrants who had already worked and lived in the U.S. since January 1982. Those eligible could apply for regularization of status and eventually full citizenship. The law also mandated the intensification of Border Patrol activities including the auditing of employer I-9 forms. Over 2.7 million illegal aliens and others not qualifying for visas were legalized under the 1986 IRCA amnesty."

This bill created the I-9 form. Employers are required to keep one on file for each person they hire to prove they are legal to work in the US. This was and is a joke. The Feds obviously are not checking for these I-9 forms as they promised to do in '86. And we can see what happened to the "Intensification" of the Border Patrol...we throw our men in jail for doing their jobs.

Last time it was 2.7 million...this time we will be legalizing over 12 million along with whatever other family members they pull across afterwards.

This bill was a failure in 1986 and it will be an even bigger disaster in 2007.

6/5/2007 11:47:26 AM

Quote :

"It's also not my job to make them rich."

You're not. I think they're working for the money they receive, so technically they are making themselves rich.

Since most immigrants come here to make money, why aren't we cracking down harder on employers who hire illegal immigrants? I don't know what the penalties are now, but obviously they're not strict enough.

If they can't come here to get jobs easily, then maybe they'll stop coming? Sounds too hopeful... bah

6/5/2007 11:55:45 AM

Quote :

"why aren't we cracking down harder on employers who hire illegal immigrants? "

why arent we SECURING THE BORDER

6/5/2007 12:01:54 PM

^ because that's racist

6/5/2007 12:10:34 PM

yep, sovereignty is pretty racist

6/5/2007 12:13:08 PM

why can't we do both

why does it have to be one or the other with YOU PEOPLE

6/5/2007 12:44:58 PM

Quote :

"That's the problem. WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE! It's also not my job to make them rich. It is their job to pay their motherfucking taxes if they want to be here. There's plenty of broke ass people in the US who ARE citizens and who DO pay taxes. Why does the Mexican get the better end of the deal?"

The best way to solve this problem, to know who they are, is to give them some type of legal status so that they can be tracked like everyone else, as far as taxes and stuff go.

6/5/2007 12:46:21 PM

why would they start following laws now? they figure if enough of them break the law to get here...we'll just legalize them!

6/5/2007 12:48:57 PM

^ and they're right.

6/5/2007 12:54:02 PM

^^ Because it's absurd to imply that they're breaking the laws to spite us. They're breaking the law because the legal means of getting her are impractical. I would bet most illegal immigrants at least attempted to get here legally, and were denied (but I don't know for sure).

But, to answer your stupid question, they would start following the law, because it would make things easier for them.

6/5/2007 12:59:11 PM

IRS is a fucking joke anyway, so no, they shouldn't try and collect back taxes. Hell the IRS just tried collecting over $3000 from me a month ago saying i owed it from 2005. Well turns out they owe me over $1000 between 2004 and 2005. If i hadn't had an accountant do all the paper work i'd have been screwed yet again by our government.

6/5/2007 12:59:43 PM

Since so much of it gets here illegally anyways, we should legalize marijuana... Mmm kaaay

6/5/2007 12:59:48 PM

Quote :

"Because it's absurd to imply that they're breaking the laws to spite us. They're breaking the law because the legal means of getting her are impractical"

Quote :

"they would start following the law, because it would make things easier for them. "

ahahah holy shit your screen name is perfect

6/5/2007 1:02:36 PM

You're an idiot.

So you're believe that illegal immigrants come here to poke us Americans in the eye, and dance around with delight in front of us that they're illegal? That they revel in it? Because that's basically what you're saying.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:03:32 PM

WHO CARES THAT THEY'RE BREAKING THE LAWS! HAVE SYMPATHY! THINK WITH YOUR HEART, NOT YOUR BRAIN!

^where in the FUCK did you pull that one from? your ass? talk about putting words in somebody's mouth

you're the moron who doesnt realize THEY'RE ILLEGAL

and spare me your shit about "i'll bet you've exceeded a speed limit recently"

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 1:04:18 PM

no, you're a towel

6/5/2007 1:04:28 PM

^^ I'm asking you to think, period. Things have logical connections, you can't just ignore logic.

6/5/2007 1:05:35 PM

logic would say if enough people break a law...get rid of the law?

you're even dumber than i could've possibly imagined

6/5/2007 1:06:28 PM

^ That's not what i'm saying at all. Oeuvre said the problem was that we didn't know who they are, i'm saying that we should make it that we DO know who they are.

What's your idea? Do what we've been doing, but do it harder?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:08:47 PM

^^21st Amendment.

6/5/2007 1:09:45 PM

OR just make the US such a shit hole that Mexico will seem like a paradise. They'll all hop right back over.

6/5/2007 1:10:23 PM

^^^here's my main question, simply put

Why would you expect perpetual lawbreakers to just start following laws?

Do you expect Bush to just withdraw from Iraq and focus all his energy on reducing CO2 emissions since that "will be easier" for him in the sense of pissing off less Democrats?

^^ok we re-legalized alcohol...any other evidence besides that one instance?

Quote :

"What's your idea?"

SECURE THE BORDER

6/5/2007 1:10:33 PM

Quote :

"Why would you expect perpetual lawbreakers to just start following laws? "

Because the new laws would be beneficial for them to follow. Look at gun laws. Up until recently, it was illegal to own/buy certain guns, but people still did it anyway. When it's legal now to get those guns, do you think people are still going to stick to the underground channels? No, because that would be dumb.

^ How? Without minefields, merely "securing the border" WILL NOT WORK. We have to attack the problem from all angles.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:14 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:12:35 PM

Quote :

"When it's legal now to get those guns, do you think people are still going to stick to the underground channels? No, because that would be dumb."

thats why people still DO buy guns illegally...because YOU'RE dumb

i cant argue with someone as completely stupid as you, sorry

6/5/2007 1:14:56 PM

^ They buy those guns to kill people.

Illegal immigrants aren't here to kill people.

If people buying weed/speeding isn't comparable to illegal immigrants, why is people buy guns to committee crimes comparable to illegal immigrants? WHy do you ignore the majority of other people who choose to follow the law, after the law made it better for them to follow?

Do you not realize how dumb you look by picking and choosing specific things to support your stance, while ignoring everything else that makes more sense? You can call me stupid, but it's you who are making yourself look stupid.

6/5/2007 1:18:04 PM

Quote :

"Without minefields"

That's actually a good idea... wow. You're not so dumb after all. Break the law, pay the fine. Now uncle Chavez can truly say, "Yeah man, it cost me an arm and a leg to get to the United States."

6/5/2007 1:18:30 PM

its just amazing that some people are so gung-ho to allow millions of high school dropouts to come to our country ILLEGALLY, live here ILLEGALLY and want to say "well maybe if we make them legal, then they'll finall obey laws, which they didnt follow as they broke them to get here, and continue to break them by living here undocumented, not paying taxes, etc"

6/5/2007 1:20:17 PM

It's amazing to me that people just assume that since some Mexicans are here illegally that they are "perpetual lawbreakers" that will break any and every law even if their legal status in this country was rectified.

6/5/2007 1:27:19 PM

Quote :

" undocumented, not paying taxes, etc""

This is the whole point. They won't be undocumented, which means they can't not pay taxes without us knowing about it, but then they get the benefit of being able to easily get a license or insurance or a job, have legal recourse against unfair employers, be able to prove their residency, etc..

It's amazing to me that you think people who literally already risk starvation, hypothermia, drowning, wild animals, and a host of other things are going to be seriously thwarted by more walls or increased patrols. We'll probably catch more people, but it won't turn the tide. If you want to affect immigration, it's a supply/demand issue, and if immigrants can legally do more things here, it will diminish the demand.

6/5/2007 1:29:02 PM

reinforce the border, and shoot to kill. That should help stop the problem.

6/5/2007 1:43:16 PM

On a side note: Some of these guys are driving pretty nice F-250's and Suburban's. You do have a point about getting them to pay taxes and what not. They may make only $10/hour, but they sure can afford some nice vehicles.

I think the fee should be a little more hefty than $5k... should be more like $5k + reposession of all property. Make 'em start from scratch like any legal immigrant would have to.

6/5/2007 1:43:22 PM

^So legal immigrants just forfeit all their assets at the borders now? No wonder they come over illegally.

6/5/2007 1:50:26 PM

well, we do it with drug dealers who purchased property with drug money. why not treat illegals the same way we treat any other person who is a, you know, criminal

6/5/2007 1:53:40 PM

^^^ How do you know those are the illegal ones? And legal immigrants don't always start from scratch.

And i can't believe you seriously think it would be a good idea to shoot them or lay mines. The international outcry outside, it's completely unethical and immoral to shoot/kill people for non violent crimes. That's like saying we should kill everyone who drives drunk/smokes weed/speeds etc.

^ Except we don't treat all criminals that way

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:56:00 PM