Yeah, this will be on the back of my house, and only visible from the backyard.

I talked to the realtor I used when buying my house; she said that the only datapoint she had for me was a recent case where a homeowner spent $20k on super-efficient windows, only to sell the house not too much later and find from 2 different appraisers that they didn't assign ANY appraisal value to that upgrade.

Now, on the other hand, that's appraisal value versus the real world. There are things that appraise that I wouldn't pay shit for, and things that don't appraise for shit that would have value in my mind. Also, super shit-hot windows aren't exactly the same thing as a PV system. Even aside from comparing energy dollars saved, there's certain amount of difference in how tangible they are, I think. I think many people would be more inclined to ante up for solar panels, because they can see them and even look online at the real-time power output data. Windows, on the other hand, look like windows, and every house has windows.


...so on paper, and therefore according to your realtor and bank appraiser, they might not add anything. I find it awfully hard to believe that they don't add resale value in the real world, though, assuming deference to aesthetic considerations when you install them (i.e., I'll take few percent reduction in power output for the sake of putting them largely out of sight and in a spot where I can make a nice, symmetric array instead of haphazardly scattered around irregular parts of my roof).

9/10/2013 6:55:30 PM

When I get older and buy a home for raising kids/retirement. I will def be doing some green/solar investing.

prob go with some roof panels, ground source heat pump, high efficiency everything.

9/13/2013 10:18:14 AM

You have to be a real asshole to complain about someone adding solar panels to their roof.

9/13/2013 11:47:12 AM

Ehh, some installs look OK, or occasionally even good, but some of them don't. It depends on the architecture, where the panels are mounted, and how they're arrayed.

I talked to another quote using Canadian Solar panels and a single inverter (instead of a microinverter for each panel) that will only be $2000 out of pocket after all the incentives and credits!

[Edited on September 14, 2013 at 4:28 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2013 4:27:22 PM

Solar panels are a great green option and can help supply some form of power during an emergency, but if you're in nc, it won't save you that much if there's a nuclear supply.

9/15/2013 2:18:40 PM

^that statement is all sorts of WTF.

Duke's not in NC, but NC is a great place to be for solar. Once Duke makes a play to join PJM and starts selling RECs to Maryland and New Jersey, they will command a premium.

9/15/2013 3:42:01 PM

I actually just googled PJM. Looks like they don't deal with FL, but I bet that there is a similar group down here. I looked on Gulf Power's website; I couldn't find anything about them retaining ownership of any renewable energy credits, but then again, I couldn't find anything about that subject at all. I have to wonder if that's part of why they offer such an incentive, anyway (although part of it, I'm guessing, is to dampen demand spikes to the grid during temperature extremes and allow them to more efficiently size their power plant outputs...and for that matter, at $2/watt, it's probably a cost effective way for them to produce electricity, with the taxpayers footing 30% of the total bill, and the consumer paying another 20-25%.




At any rate, that $5200 net out of pocket figure for a 5 kW system (and then a ~4.5 year break even point) was for a microinverter system. A central inverter system is more like $2000-3000 and with only a 2-3 year break even point! Ignoring lifespan variances of the respective components (which there isn't really data on, and I doubt would tip the balance significantly), the microinverter system comes out on top over the life cycle of the system due to maybe 20% better output (probably an extra $200/year in production, offsetting a $2000 price premium up front).

I'm looking into a sort of best-of-both-worlds/split the difference solution by a company called SolarEdge. It uses one large central inverter for the system, but with control modules (as opposed to microinverters) on each panel. It's priced about halfway between the other two systems, but it sounds like it's pretty comparable to microinverters in terms of increased output.

9/15/2013 11:19:11 PM

Quote :

"Solar panels are a great green option and can help supply some form of power during an emergency, but if you're in nc, it won't save you that much if there's a nuclear supply."

Unless you are going to unnecessarily pay extra for a bunch of battery backups, any grid tied panels WILL NOT power your home during a power outage or blackout. It's a safety thing. They design systems that way so if the utility needs to repair a downed power line, they ensure that it is not live.


It's a common misconception people seem to assume, but any solar panels you have that are tied to the grid will be cut off automatically in a power outage, unless you have a battery backup system (almost everyone doesn't).

[Edited on September 15, 2013 at 11:31 PM. Reason : asdfk]

9/15/2013 11:30:23 PM

^yep, anti-islanding is a major requirement of any home generator connection. Solar panels can't make current if they don't have a source voltage to sync up to.

^^Florida apparently doesn't have any renewable energy requirements at the state level, which is why they don't track RECs. even still, solar in Florida just makes sense because the panels work as load reduction in a state that summer peaks. Lower peak demands mean lower generation capacity requirements, which means savings to the utility by not building more peaking plants.

I'd highly recommend a single inverter unit over multiple inverter unit. I've seen some studies showing 15% failure rates of inverters within the first year, and it's a lot harder to tell if one inverter failed on a system where each panel gets its own inverter. On a single inverter system, the inverters tend to be more robust and it's easy to tell if it's working or not by just looking at your bill.

Is your utility installing a second meter just for the solar panels?

9/16/2013 12:31:26 AM

well, with microinverters, you can monitor each panel's output in real-time via online account. it would be obvious if anything was amiss. in fact, possibly even more obvious than with a single inverter setup (although obviously if your one inverter died, you'd figure that out).


I finally found in black and white that I will own the RECs. Gulf Power's contract for this states that REC ownership is IAW Rule 25-6.065(9), which states that they are owned by the customer, but that the customer will bear the cost of any metering equipment needed to quantify renewable energy unless otherwise agreed to.

Speaking of metering, I can't find that as a firm answer, but it sounds like they just swap out your regular meter for a different, single meter, based on a couple of things in this Q&A document:
http://www.gulfpower.com/pricing/renewable_faqs.asp

9/16/2013 1:03:50 AM

you'll need a second meter to measure RECs, which means another $4/month charge typically from the utility.

9/16/2013 7:42:16 PM

You could also go solar thermal route

9/17/2013 12:13:03 PM

tldr. if you can afford it, install those fuckers. it's like being one of the first ppl to fly on a commercial airline. You don't need to be a dyke like amelia eairhart to help bring forth the new era, be your own dyle!

10/3/2013 2:43:50 PM

^^^ hmm, I guess I'll look into that down the road if it becomes a factor.

^^ Yeah, but as a single dude with a kid who lives with me half the time, I don't use enough hot water to justify it. I installed a hybrid water heater a little while back; there's no way thermal solar hot water would be cost effective for me.

^ I actually found out the first company was overpriced. The major solar company in the area quoted me a price thousands of dollars cheaper for the exact same setup. I have to front $17,xxx, but after all the credits and rebates, it'll only cost me ~$2300 now! That should put the break-even point (just in cashflow, not any equity I might gain) at about 2 years.

10/3/2013 9:47:32 PM

seventeen

porn

dollars

10/4/2013 7:43:11 AM

Well, I ended up going with another company who was actually significantly less expensive. Prices have really plummeted in the last few years.

I'm doing 5 kW of Canadian Solar panels (20 x 250 W), with Enphase microinverters. Gross cost is $17,600 installed. I secured the $10,000 Gulf Power rebate (which funding ran out for in about 8-10 minutes from the applications being opened!), so between that and the IRS credit, the net cost to me after subsidies/tax credits is only about $2300! The break-even point should be 2 years, give or take a few months, in terms of cash flow.

The other cool thing is that real estate appraisal guidelines have finally been generated, so this should give me about $15,000 in added home equity.

If anyone else is interested, this is a pretty sweet deal. The federal tax credits and many of the local/regional subsidies were set when the costs were double (or more) what they are now. It's kind of a perfect storm for the consumer to get in on this at no-brainer net cost.

10/26/2013 6:34:59 PM