[new]

7/8/2007 4:39:12 PM

please do not compare me to hooksaw.

7/8/2007 10:11:28 PM

Someone compared you to Hooknuts? Man, that's a low blow.

7/8/2007 10:53:56 PM

^ Aw, isn't it cute when they find a new toy to play with? HockeyRomance is really proud of his new mock username for me. GG!

London: Reports of youth bus crime soars
Reported youth crime on buses has shot up by 55% since the introduction of free bus travel for under 16-year-olds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/05/30/bus_crime_video.shtml

7/8/2007 11:41:30 PM

the issue of "free bus service" is not new. its currently being debated where i live. in fact, out of seven places in the country that offer free bus service, two are in Washington State, and two are in North Carolina (Chapel Hill and Boone)

theres a whole lot of variables here, including loss of fare revenue, but also cutting the significant expense (and time) of having to manage the fare collection at all levels.

the working consensus seems to be that fare-free bus service works for small systems, but not for large systems:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/322858_freebus07.html

Austin Texas tried to do this but gave up after a year. crime/vandalism by school-skipping teens were the major problem.

so... what exactly is your point here? that children need to be reigned in by their parents? thats not really an original thought, or really even TSB-worth.

or are you trying to make some larger connection between evil criminals and public transportation? is mass transit doomed?

should we all just drive our individual SUV's? or should the government perhaps invest in personal flying machines and/or teleportation devices?

work with me here. what are you trying to tell us?



[Edited on July 8, 2007 at 11:59 PM. Reason : ]

7/8/2007 11:49:02 PM

^ Did you ever see Singles?

7/9/2007 12:38:44 AM

could you be any more fucking roundabout?

7/9/2007 12:44:22 AM

^ Just answer the question.

7/9/2007 1:10:35 AM

was that the movie with the dude from pearl jam in it? i was 10 when that movie came out. . . and yes, i think i saw TEN YEARS AGO. What is your point?

7/9/2007 1:18:06 AM

yeah i saw the movie Singles. like 15 years ago when it came out. i dont remember hardly anything about it, other than it was a bunch of douchebaggery from start to finish.

again, im asking you, what is your point of your thread? I'm trying hard to work with you here.

7/9/2007 1:21:17 AM

^^ and ^ NOW we're getting somewhere! Do you remember the guy, Steve Dunne, who was so pumped up about the train and he was making his pitch about it to the mayor of Seattle--and his job depended on it?



This guy--but a little younger.

PS: Thanks SO much for working with me, joe_shithead. STFU about that, okay?

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 1:28 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 1:26:19 AM

jesus christ. no we don't remember the plot details of some shitty grunge-era movie from 15 years ago. what's your point?

7/9/2007 1:29:38 AM

^^ what he said (^). i've got no idea who Steve Dunne is. should I?

and yeah, i'm working with you. even though you insist on using ad hominem attacks in place of reasonable arguments. even though everything about this thread literally screams "stupidest attempt at a serious TSB thread ever". i'm working with you, anyhow, because .... just maybe, you'll actually come out with something meaningful and/or of interest. I'd like for you to succeed here. I still have hope, you know.



[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 1:51 AM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 1:47:47 AM

Okay, I'll cut to the chase--and the movie itself is irrelevant. But director Cameron Crowe was smart enough to realize something even in 1992--PEOPLE LIKE TO DRIVE THEIR FUCKING CARS!!!

In the movie, the mayor delivered a line very similar to the one I have above--he ultimately said, "No" (in slow-motion, no less). Steve Dunne lost his job and his left-wing pipe dream of mass transit went down the tubes.

Fast forward to the present--and switch to reality--and you have to look no further than The Triangle to see the fictional scene played out with striking similarities. The breathless "progressives" are convinced that if the neocons would just stop brainwashing the helpless proletariat with "evil" oil money, we could all enjoy the panacea of mass transit on dirty, crime-ridden buses and trains.

But, guess what? PEOPLE LIKE TO DRIVE THEIR FUCKING CARS!!! (And public transportation is riddled with crime--and it stinks.)

Regional Rail Could Be Switched Off TTA's Track
Posted: Nov. 28, 2006

Quote :

"'The only way to get the buy-in that we need from the public on rail is to engage all of the public -- not just those people who are cheerleaders for transit,' said [County Commissioner Joe] Bryan, who chairs Wake County's metropolitan planning organization, a group of elected officials who make transportation funding requests. 'Get everybody at the table, and let's come up with a plan that works for our region.'"

Quote :

"'Basically, these are non-elected people that have been sitting there scratching their heads, trying to figure this thing out for over 15 years,' said [Sen. Neal] Hunt. 'That's why we need some outside influence. We need some new blood.'"

http://wral.com/news/local/story/1074363/

Hey, maybe Steve Dunne went to work for TTA.

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 1:56 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 1:50:05 AM

as urban areas become increasingly denser, the "single commuter, single car" method is increasingly unrealistic and unsustainable. mass transit options are the only alternative. this can include carpooling, buses, light rail, elevated rail, subways, whatever... but the fact is that metropolitan area traffic is approaching critical mass. you just cant keep adding lanes and think you're solving the problem.

nobody wants to tackle this issue, because it involves expenditures of lot of money with little immediate return. so politicians keep passing the buck. but its only going to get worse. continually balking on the issue only delays the point at which it will *have* to be addressed, then it will be much more expensive and painful to try and retrofit mass transit into growth areas that did not plan for transit right-of-way during their design phase.



[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 1:58 AM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 1:55:41 AM

i mean i agree, people like to drive their cars. and that may very well be a legitimate reason why a regional rail line might not work here. but what does that have to do with crime in public transportation.

i've had the opportunity to ride on the subway/metro systems of a number of cities. some are certainly better than others. but there's one thing that was pretty much pervasive: lots of people used them. trying to pretend that no one wants mass transit anywhere is silly. is it right for the triangle to have a mass transit system right now? maybe not (especially if it doesn't even go to the fucking airport like some of the plans i've seen). but that doesn't mean that crime is in any way the reason.

7/9/2007 1:56:43 AM

^^ Didn't you see Demolition Man? People still drive cars in the future--they just don't have any rights! Thanks to the utopian schemes concocted by socialists.

^ Crime is a part of the distaste for public transportation.

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:01 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 1:59:18 AM

Public transportation smells like malt liquor

7/9/2007 2:00:04 AM

^^ok?

and crime varies from city to city. it's not like crime is inherent to public transportation systems like you are trying to imply.

7/9/2007 2:04:05 AM

^ O'rly?

Japan Tries Women-Only Train Cars to Stop Groping
Tokyo Subway Experiment Attempts to Slow Epidemic of Subway Fondling

Quote :

"Whether above the crowded streets or below ground, Tokyo's trains are renowned for their efficiency and cleanliness. But according to a survey conducted in Tokyo last year, nearly 64 percent of Japanese women in their 20s and 30s said they've been groped on trains, subways or at transit stations in the city."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/International/story?id=803965

Moving Violations

Quote :

"Recently, the New York City police arrested 13 men, saying they had groped or flashed women on the subway."

Quote :

"Around the same time, I spent eight months doing research in Athens, so I decided to record Greek women recounting narratives I could compare to the New Yorkers'. Since most of the subway stories were actually molesting stories, I asked Greek women if they'd ever been molested. The experiences the Greek women described were similar to those I'd heard from Americans."

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~menzel/tannen.pdf

By Deborah Tannen who is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown University and an author.

Would these women have been groped or flashed in their personal automobiles? The answer is self-evident.

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:17 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 2:09:44 AM

i could post some stories about people getting killed by drunk drivers. YOU DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING ON SUBWAYS DO YOU?!?!?

7/9/2007 2:12:18 AM

hooksaw: the sarcasm in your "breathless progressives [vs] evil neocons" imagery is not lost on me. nice job trying to reduce complex issues into black and white absolutes.

RDU/Triangle-area is a small market. and the population is widely dispersed. at this time, mass transit is a difficult sell. a lot of money up front, for little immediate gain.

but 20 years from now, the area is going to need mass transit. you're either going to have the infrastructure in place to accomodate it, or youre not. if you dont, youre going to have a hell of a time.

seattle has some of the worst traffic congestion in the nation. a few years ago, seattle was ranked #1 worst traffic in the country. at peak times, it can take me sometimes up to 1 1/2 hours to travel 10 miles from seattle to the eastside suburbs where I work. it often takes an hour. this is a drive that normally takes 15 minutes. I-5 through the city is generally referred to as a "parking lot" (steps have been taken to relieve the mess somewhat, now we're lower in the top ten. )

this is widely understood to be the problem of poor planning for mass transit in the past. and we still have poor planning for the future. its a big issue here, and one that is costing a lot of money and a lot of problems. RDU has a choice to deal with these issues now, when its cheap and easy, or later when its going to be miserable for everyone.

and you know, Seattle has generally clean, quiet, respectable, graffiti-free, and crime-free public transportation. the buses are generally pleasant to ride, and typically filled professionals commuting to work. there are bicycle racks on the front of each that carry 3 bicycles and they are often being used during the day, especially for routes that have to cross the lake. I take the bus to work several times a week.

7/9/2007 2:13:28 AM

Quote :

" Newsflash Japan has bizarre issues with sexism and misogyny. New York City has flashers and gropers "

oh dear. stop the presses.

(and you wonder why people automatically go when they read your threads)

7/9/2007 2:19:41 AM

^^

Quote :

"the sarcasm in your 'breathless progressives [vs] evil neocons' imagery is not lost on me. nice job trying to reduce complex issues into black and white absolutes."

Give me a fucking break! I held back from using your "neo-nazicon" ad hom--did you find Jesus over the Fourth or what?

Read this:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/crosstown/index.php?title=title_89&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

^ My post was in response to this:

Quote :

"it's not like crime is inherent to public transportation systems like you are trying to imply."

sarijoul

Crime sure as hell appears to be "inherent to public transportation systems"--around the world, as I've shown. And I'm not implying anything--I'm saying it outright: "Public transportation is riddled with crime" (hooksaw).

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:33 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 2:27:38 AM

Quote :

"did you find Jesus over the Fourth or what?"

LOL

yeah, he was under the couch the whole time.





[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:30 AM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 2:29:03 AM

^ Hmm. Of all the places he could have been. . . .

7/9/2007 2:34:36 AM

Quote :

"Read this: blogs.newsobserver.com..."

okay... so what? the Charlotte mayor wants to expand the current bus system instead building light rail. hes choosing Public Transportation (A) over Public Transportation (B)... based on "the numbers".

now, i dont know your regional details, and i dont care to study them. but one might argue that his vision is short ranged, and doesnt account for the benefit that will be realized as the eastside population increases over the next few decades -- as it is *bound* to do. Matthews is an extremely fast growing suburb of CLT, for instance.

buses are only viable for so long. youre gonna have to have a light rail option eventually. are you gonna buy and develop the right-of-way now, when its cheap, or 20 years from now when its ridiculously expensive, and involves displacing large numbers of residents and businesses who dont currently exist there at this time?

regardless, the point is moot. arguing over the cost efficacy of Bus vs. Light Rail, does nothing to support the premise of your thread.

Quote :

"public transportation is riddled with crime"

no, it's not.

youve given a few randomly selected and discontinuous examples. providing out of context statistics as a broad and sweeping indictment on the whole concept of public transportation is ridiculous.

four instances, that i have personal experience with: Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver BC, and Washington DC.

the transportation is clean, virtually crime free, and pleasant to ride.




[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:48 AM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 2:41:25 AM

^ Keep telling yourself that.

Woman Is Shot at D.C. Bus Stop In Front of Elementary Students
By Robert E. Pierre
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 2, 2007; Page B01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/01/AR2007060100833.html

San Francisco public transit warns about iPod theft
By Jacqui Cheng | Published: March 07, 2007 - 02:18PM CT

Quote :

"One of the latest robbery targets is your Apple iPod. Robberies on BART aren't common, averaging about 15 per month systemwide, but iPod thefts amount to 11% of those robberies. iPod theft is not unique to BART; it is a crime of opportunity occurring when an individual is seen wearing the familiar white iPod ear buds."

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/03/07/san-francisco-public-transit-warns-about-ipod-theft

Quote :

"Be very aware when waiting for and/or exiting a bus. Many of the attacks have occurred as a person was waiting at a bus shelter or soon after he/she exited a bus."

--Seattle Police

http://seattle.gov/council/della/SPDRobberyAwareness.pdf

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 3:30 AM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 3:09:13 AM

from your DC bus stop shooting link:

Quote :

"Authorities said the woman was waiting for a bus at the stop, near a busy intersection, when a man came up and opened fire. "

OMFG!!!1 busy intersections are riddled with ... crime.

Quote :

"The suspect in the Georgia Avenue shooting was wearing a T-shirt, blue jeans and a white baseball cap with the letters "NY" on it."

OMFG!!!1 white T-shirt and baseball cap-wearing dudes are riddled with .... crime

Quote :

" He was seen riding away on a black bicycle. "

OMFG!!!1 bicycle riders are riddled with .... crime

Quote :

"Police said that the shooting did not appear to be a robbery and that they were unsure whether the gunman knew the victim."

OMFG!!!1 a possibly gang-related hitman who may or may not have been staging a revenge hit is allegedly riddled with .... crime

Quote :

"A fourth-grade boy and three third-grade girls witnessed the attack and spoke soon after with grief counselors and police. "They're traumatized," she said. "But we're providing for them as best we can. They were playing and drawing.""

OMFG!!!1 playing and drawing in 3rd and 4th grade is riddled with .... crime

Quote :

"The attack was one of two rush-hour shootings yesterday in the District. Just before 8 a.m., a man walked into the 7th District police station at 2455 Alabama Ave. SE with a gunshot wound to his hand. He told police that he was robbed and shot at 24th Street and Wagner Avenue, after he left his house."

OMFG!!!1 Leaving your house is riddled with .... crime.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
regarding the IPOD thefts on San Fran's buses...

according to Bay Area Regional Transportation, (http://www.bart.gov/about/reports/customer.asp),
they have 300,000+ exits per day, or around 8 million per month.

with 15 robberies per month, makes the odds of getting robbed on San Fran's BART, about 1 in 540,000.
and if 11% of all robberies is of IPods... well, thats about 1.65 IPods stolen per month while riding the bus.

so ... less than two (2) Ipods are stolen on the bus per month, out of 8,000,000 unique rides per month.

youre more likely to be robbed at work.

glad they put out a news release for this.

and I'm glad you have a sense of scale as well as a solid understanding of statistics.

--------------------------------------------------------
regarding your posting of a generic "how to be safe" brochure from Seattle PD.

Christ already. you might as well put up some Deputy Dog or Smokey The Bear PSA's while you're at it.

Seattle is well-known for being one of the safest large cities in the nation with regards to a very low
incidence of violent crime (rape, robbery, etc)... but it's not so great for property crime. which
unfortunately, is due mostly to a high rate of Automobile Theft

of course, we know its the evil green seattle dope smoking faggot liberals stealing all the cars so
people will have to bike and bus... those bastards






[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 4:43 AM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 4:26:02 AM

walking is the most commie pinko thing you can do.

7/9/2007 7:42:44 AM

i just love how this guy is 40

7/9/2007 8:13:45 AM

My anecdotal evidence proves that public transportation is......... I'm a dumbass

7/9/2007 9:32:10 AM

I almost wonder if this is for real.

If it isn't, I think the biggest insult the Soap Box could have ever directed towards hooksaw is all of us thinking he was dumb enough to be serious about this. If it had been nearly any other user we wouldn't have thought for a second that this thread was serious.

If it is for real... hahaha, dumbass.

7/9/2007 9:49:50 AM

Quote :

"I almost wonder if this is for real."

yeah, sometimes i think that hooksaw is one of the most crafty and sublime trolls on TDub.

i almost hope i am being trolled here, because otherwise it's really depressing to think my beloved CHASS has graduate TA's who are so blindingly stupid.



[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 12:18 PM. Reason : ]

7/9/2007 12:17:48 PM

^ You're getting smarter. I knew this thread would draw out all the foaming moonbats from the woodwork. GG!

And nowhere did I post that there should not be public transportation or that public transportation should not be part of the national infrastructure, did I? But that's all your ideological lenses allowed you to see.

You are the dumbasses. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

PS: "TAs" not "TA's" (sic).

7/9/2007 5:21:48 PM

^ Okay, so if you're not arguing against public transportation than
a) What was the point of all your ranting and raving earlier about how people like to drive their own cars and about that movie from 15 years ago where a guy tries to build a light rail system in Seattle are whatever?
b) What is the point of this thread?

7/9/2007 5:39:04 PM

the point of this thread?

that hooksaw just got pwnt hardcore on the stupidest of all serious threads, and is now trying to save face by taking the "haha i trolled joo" way out.

CHASS must have become a pretty sad place since I was last there in '03.

7/9/2007 6:49:48 PM

... poor black people.

7/9/2007 6:56:00 PM

if you think the premise for this thread is ridiculous, you're a foaming moonbat...

...

this thread just took a turn from dumb to sad

7/9/2007 8:29:36 PM

Un-fucking-believable. Some of you don't even know the meaning of the word "riddled"--and you certainly don't know my intended meaning. But you think you're so fucking smart.

I knew you some of you would bite hard on this. I mean, look how fucking worked up you have gotten about this--YOU are the dumbasses.

riddled:

Quote :

"to fill or affect with (something undesirable, weakening, etc.): a government riddled with graft."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/riddled

Can any of you prove that public transportation is not affected by crime? The answer is self-evident.

Though I know that public transportation must be an important part of this nation's current and future infrastructure, some of you had better stop floating away on your mass transit pipe dream cloud. YOU had better start realizing that--just like the movie scene from 1992--most people are NOT going to stop or even significantly reduce their driving for a number of reasons. Get used to it--and, more important, plan for it.

That's the point.

7/9/2007 11:49:55 PM

of the week!

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 1:04 AM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 1:03:15 AM

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 1:04 AM. Reason : dble]

7/10/2007 1:03:38 AM

goodlord, this is pathetically lame. even for hooksaw.

yes, we know what "riddled" means. and no, public transport is not "riddled" with crime. dont try and shift the word from "riddled" to "affected", either.

but i mean really -- The Cameron Crowe / Matt Dillon School of Public Policy?



im seriously disappointed in you, man.

you have taken TSB to an entirely new, previously unheard of level of suck.







[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 2:04 AM. Reason : ]

7/10/2007 1:54:57 AM

^ Coming from you, I consider that a compliment.

Quote :

"YOU had better start realizing that--just like the movie scene from 1992--most people are NOT going to stop or even significantly reduce their driving for a number of reasons. Get used to it--and, more important, plan for it. That's the point."

7/10/2007 2:54:15 AM

^ hooksaw, i think you could even make Lee Majors weep.

Quote :

"The Last Chase, 1981 (starring Lee Majors, Burgess Meredith) In a future United States, the only transport available to an individual is public transportation. Predicated on an assertion that "the oil has run out", an increasingly totalitarian central government has ordered all personal vehicles be impounded by law ... forces everyone to recycle, and have oppressed all those poor people who want to drive Ferraris and smoke cigarettes. Hero Lee Majors, an ex-racing car driver, decides to make a statement by pulling out his old race car and driving cross-country at 150 mph (he siphons gas from old gas station pumps). Taking along a young computer hacker, he drives for the Free State of California! Of course, the Powers-That-Be try to eliminate him by hiring Burgess Meredith to shoot him down with a fighter jet ... preventing, as the government agents say, "People going where they want to, when they want to. This could set us back to the 1980s." http://www.impawards.com/1981/posters/last_chase.jpg "

sounds like your kind of movie.

Lee Majors. Remember him? 6 Million Dollar Man ... he's now 68 years old, and married to his 33 year old wife for about 5 years now.

sounds like your kind of guy. and he still has all his hair, too.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000516/






[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 3:27 AM. Reason : ]

7/10/2007 3:21:55 AM

^ I have all my hair, too--unlike you. And I do like Lee Majors--but this is an understandably recurring theme in a variety of media:

"Red Barchetta" by Rush

My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the motor law
And on sundays I elude the eyes and hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits.

Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind,
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me, an old machine --
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red barchetta, from a better, vanished time
I fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime. . .

Wind in my hair --
Shifting and drifting --
Mechanical music --
Adrenalin surge --

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly, ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan

At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside. . .

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 3:51 AM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 3:49:09 AM

"Hmmm... I'm embarrassing myself.

I know how to recover!

I'll reveal my love for Rush!"

7/10/2007 8:10:54 AM

^ Yet another trinket from Boone-tard! GG!

7/10/2007 5:11:19 PM

umm. i wouldn't be criticizing anyone too much after posting rush lyrics in a soapbox thread.

7/10/2007 5:25:58 PM

^^ trinkets? are you kidding me?

you're the one here formulating public policy stances based on Matt Dillon films and Rush lyrics.

do you not realize how ridiculous of a parody you've made yourself?

7/10/2007 7:05:50 PM