Our local Hillary Clinton is now Mrs. Survival Woman

12/11/2007 10:20:36 AM

Quote :

"Especially given that there is no down side to getting a flu shot (except a slightly sore arm for a day), it's kind of silly not to."

I've never had the flu and I've only gotten the shot once and now do not get the shot. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

12/11/2007 1:53:00 PM

Quote :

"Especially given that there is no down side to getting a flu shot (except a slightly sore arm for a day), it's kind of silly not to."

Cuz it's entirely reasonable to accept everything the CDC says as absolute truth.... except for when they only list a few key groups of people who "should get a flu shot every year"

I'm gonna side with TKE-Teg on this one...

[Edited on December 11, 2007 at 2:02 PM. Reason : .]

12/11/2007 2:01:41 PM

Quote :

"I've never had the flu and I've only gotten the shot once and now do not get the shot. If it ain't broke don't fix it."

that is faulty logic. As GrumpyGOP mentioned on the last page, there is no genetic pre-disposition to not getting the flu. If you haven't had it yet, congratulations - you're lucky. It's not because you're a chosen one. That has nothing to do with your chances of getting it in the future.
It's also worth noting that "the flu" is a term entirely overused by the general public and all to often improperly self-diagnosed. Many people who claim to have had the flu, or say they get it every couple years or whatever, don't actually get it that often, and maybe not ever. They just have a cold or food poisoning or another virus or something. Getting the flu shot is just like free or very cheap insurance - the only cost is the time it takes to get it and $10 or whatever, or free if your work provides it. If you don't get exposed to the flu, well, you've lost nothing except $10. If you do get exposed and the vaccine prevents you from getting it, then that's $10 well spent.

having said all that (and everything i said on page 1), i'll have "full disclosure" and say that I didn't get a flu shot this year, and have only had maybe 2-3 in my life. I don't have any reason against getting one, though, except i just haven't gone out of my way to do it, but I don't think that i'm immune or special in any way, but I will agree that for normal, healthy, young people, i'm just not too worried about it. I believe in statistics more than I believe in hype, so i'm not scared of it.

Quote :

"Cuz it's entirely reasonable to accept everything the CDC says as absolute truth.... except for when they only list a few key groups of people who "should get a flu shot every year""

i honestly don't know what you mean by this or what you're implying.....
furthermore, I don't understand what people think the CDC has to gain by suggesting people get shots or vaccines if they are ultimately useless.

12/11/2007 2:13:40 PM

I've never had the flu or a flu shot, either. Main reason I don't get the shot is because I'm young and otherwise healthy, and there's a limited number of shots -- go ahead and take mine and give it to someone for whom the bug poses more of a threat.

And, again, when the next flu pandemic comes, in all likelihood it will be because the guys who develop it every year guessed wrong, which means the initial round of flu shots will be useless anyway.

12/11/2007 2:25:47 PM

^^ My point isn't that they're ultimately useless... though I did catch that tone from some others.

My point is:
1. I don't know of (offhand) a Government agency that has a spotless record when it comes to overstating foreign threats and understating internal threats. (side effects of the vaccine here being labeled an 'internal threat' and the virus itself being the 'foreign threat')
2. It's kind of two sided to completely disregard the CDC's recommendations for who needs a flu shot, and then turn around and assume they're giving 100% disclosure on risks & the frequency of those side effects.

The greater evil in all this discussion is the scaremongering by Govt agencies... and we don't even need to get into the massive profits to be made by the drug companies manufacturing the vaccine.

12/11/2007 2:27:55 PM

Quote :

"My point isn't that they're ultimately useless..."

ultimately, if it prevents you from getting the flu one year, they're not useless. Against a pandemic from a mutated string that is not vaccinated against, fine - they're useless. But if you want to lower your individual chances of getting the flu in a particular year, then they're useful. If you decide that your chances of getting the flu are already slim enough that it's not worth your trouble in getting a shot, then that's your decision (that's the decision I made, personally). But that doesn't devalue the whole process into "uselessness". If you do get a flu shot, and you don't get the flu that year, then you'll probably never know if the reason you didn't get it was just luck or if the vaccine actually stopped it at some point. the bottom line is, if you have a flu shot, you're less likely to get sick with that strain of flu than someone who didn't have the shot. It's not a magic bullet that stops all flu, and nobody said it was, but that doesn't mean it's useless.

12/11/2007 2:57:50 PM

^ I'm still confused as to why you think I think it's useless. I don't fit the parameters to being high risk, I'm in reasonably good health, and the last time I was diagnosed with the flu it was bearable. That's why I don't do it personally.

I don't have a problem with it being offered, I have a problem with it being pushed & the scare tactics.

12/11/2007 3:01:05 PM

oh, whoops. I read and responded to your quote as:

Quote :

""My point isn't that they're ultimately useless...""

so... in that case, i think we're in agreement

and yes, i'm also in full agreement about the scare tactics used. i cringe every time I hear whatever tagline for the 11:00 news -
one day it will be "if you don't get the flu vaccine, you're putting yourself and your family IN DANGER"
then the next day it will be "Will the flu vaccine KILL YOU!?"

12/11/2007 3:06:33 PM

wait, maybe I missed something with the whole flu shot thing

if the flu shot is either a based off the previous year's strain or a shot in the dark prediction, isn't it still going to be useless in preventing a pandemic?

i guess what I'm getting at, is wouldn't a pandemic require the mutation of a viral strain into something way more contagious and/or deadly than what has been seen before? A flu vaccine based off an older strain wouldn't do anything, would it? All it would do is keep you from getting the old version of the virus.

12/11/2007 5:45:45 PM

a vaccine for pandemic flu cannot be formulated until 4-6 months AFTER the pandemic has begun.


Aventis is working on an H5N1 vaccine currently.


It may or may not work, and certainly the virus is mutating faster than scientists can tweak the "old" vaccine.

if pandemic flu is made up of mostly avian influenza, we will have no natural immunity to its receptors.

Part of the reason H5N1 isnt easily transmissible from person to person is its receptor site. Apparently it needs to get deep into lung tissue to "take hold" if it mutates and adapts it could then attach itself higher up in our respiratory tracts. If that happens then casual encounters can expose you to the virus.


most people that get H5N1 first get it from being in very close proximity to infected birds, if they pass it to another person- its usually to a family member

12/11/2007 10:16:56 PM

i'm thinking it might not be a bad idea to invest in a nice respirator and a shit-ton of freeze-dried food and bottled water.

12/11/2007 10:34:03 PM

good thing I built that bunker

12/11/2007 11:51:43 PM

MRE's to the rescue!

12/11/2007 11:51:55 PM

I'm not skerd. I think i'm more likely to die in the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust with Iran thanks to George W's diplomacy skills then of avain bird flu

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 12:25 AM. Reason : l]

12/12/2007 12:24:21 AM

^Well, you're not.

12/12/2007 12:32:24 AM

Quote :

"We are too soft, too complacent and too reliant on technology"

exactly

while we may not have a genetic pre-disposition to not getting the flu

certain factors will make a difference in who lives

one factor is age, and yes it sucks that kids will tend to die

another factor is poverty, and yes it sucks that the rich won't tend to die

but the "soft and complacent folks too reliant on technology" will die in greater numbers than responsible survivalists

and that is good

Quote :

"If you haven't had it yet, congratulations - you're lucky"

well, let's be honest

it's part luck, part responsibility

if it were just luck, then why bother with handwashing, strengthening one's immune system, and such?

Quote :

"as a society, we continually fuck ourselves with all this antibacterial nonsense it is unnecessary"

couldn't agree more

I am AMAZED at how incredibly brainwashed people are about this completely unnecessary crap

it seems that every month or so, when someone learns that I never (willingly) use or buy antibacterial soap

they're like

"OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS? YOU DON'T USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP?!?!? EVEN AFTER HANDLING RAW CHICKEN?!?!? "

Quote :

"With school and business closings widespread there will be plenty of people with little to do but sit in their room, either terrified, bored, or both"

as long as we have TWW, everything will be ok

Quote :

"access to self-defense materials"

why bridget, do you mean privately owned guns?

12/12/2007 8:41:43 AM

Quote :

" Pakistan Has Eight Suspected Human Cases of Bird Flu (Update4) By Jason Gale Dec. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Five members of a family in Pakistan are among eight people who may be the country's first human cases of bird flu, the World Health Organization said. At least one brother died. Pakistan's national laboratory found the lethal H5N1 avian flu strain caused the infections in three brothers and two cousins from the same family, according to information from a Dec. 15 WHO statement and Gregory Hartl, a WHO spokesman in Geneva. Another brother from the U.S., who attended a funeral for one of the victims, and his son tested negative for the virus at a hospital in Nassau County, New York, Hartl said. Medical teams have been sent to Pakistan to assist local authorities in investigating the cases, in which two people had only mild symptoms, Hartl said. Doctors are monitoring for signs avian flu may be adapting to humans by killing fewer people, fostering its spread. ``It's too early to make any definitive conclusions'' about the outbreak, Hartl said in a Dec. 15 telephone interview. ``We are still in the middle of it.'' New York State health officials were informed Dec. 7 that a man from Nassau County who had returned from Pakistan told his doctor he might have been exposed to avian flu, said Claudia Hutton, director of public affairs for the state department of health in a telephone interview."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVTc75sr5yCM&refer=worldwide

12/16/2007 12:18:01 PM

INFLUENZA A (H2N3) VIRUS, SWINE - USA
*************************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

Date: 17-18 Dec 2007
Source: Proc Natl Acad Science USA Early Edition [edited]
<http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0710286104v1?etoc>


[Below is the abstract of a paper in the online edition of the Proceedings
of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS), which describes the
characterization of an influenza virus with potential to become the
precursor of a human pandemic virus.]

Identification of H2N3 influenza A viruses from swine in the United States
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Wenjun Ma, Amy L Vincent, Marie R Gramer, Christy B Brockwell, Kelly M
Lager, Bruce H Janke, et al. At the Department of Veterinary Diagnostic and
Production Animal Medicine, College of Veterinary Medicine, Iowa State
University, Ames, IA 50011; Virus and Prion Diseases of Livestock Research
Unit, National Animal Disease Center, Agricultural Research Service, United
States Department of Agriculture, Ames, IA 50010; Veterinary Diagnostic
Laboratory, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, St.
Paul, MN 55108; St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, Memphis, TN 38018;
and Interdisciplinary Program, University of Tennessee Health Science
Center, Memphis, TN 38163

Abstract
- --------
Although viruses of each of the 16 influenza A HA subtypes are potential
human pathogens, only viruses of the H1, H2, and H3 subtype are known to
have been successfully established in humans. H2 influenza viruses have
been absent from human circulation since 1968, and as such they pose a
substantial human pandemic risk. In this report, we isolate and
characterize genetically similar avian/swine virus reassortant H2N3
influenza A viruses isolated from diseased swine from 2 farms in the United
States. These viruses contained leucine at position 226 of the H2 protein,
which has been associated with increased binding affinity to the mammalian
alpha-2,6Gal-linked sialic acid virus receptor. Correspondingly, the H2N3
viruses were able to cause disease in experimentally infected swine and
mice without prior adaptation. In addition, the swine H2N3 virus was
infectious and highly transmissible in swine and ferrets. Taken together,
these findings suggest that the H2N3 virus has undergone some adaptation to
the mammalian host and that their spread should be very closely monitored.

- --
communicated by:
ProMED-mail <promed@promedmail.org>

[The current concentration of attention on the potential of avian influenza
A/H5N1 virus to evolve into a human pandemic pathogen should not divert
attention from the presence in the environment of other potential
precursors of influenza viruses with equal or perhaps greater potential to
become human pandemic pathogens. - Mod.CP]

12/19/2007 2:45:57 PM

I heard that if you never get a flu shot, then youll be able to take medicine for this thing when it does finally come, and youll be ok ...

Everyone else will die

12/19/2007 9:36:05 PM