Quote :

"Nothing. But just know that this is a ban that currently exists in every school in the nation, so I'm not sure where you are even trying to go with this."

i already brought this up, and he acted like a douchnozzle and dismissed it, then tried to imply i didn't know what the word BARING meant, so good luck getting an answer

[Edited on December 17, 2007 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ,]

12/17/2007 4:55:19 PM

My point is, you questioned the worth of a parent that would send their child to school with a steak knife. Since I'm questioning the intelligence of the ban on knives in general, I was asking you what was so bad about sending your child to school with a steak knife, hoping that you might give some justification as to why this ban would be worth our time and effort and worth making our kids into criminals for.

12/17/2007 9:53:37 PM

so you don't think it's prudent to bar children from bringing weapons to school?

12/17/2007 11:31:42 PM

Is a steak knife a weapon? What about a pocket knife? Do you often fear that the 10 year olds around you are seeking to stab you?

12/17/2007 11:37:47 PM

^^ I think it is prudent that principals should exhibit some fucking common sense. Imagine if the judicial system worked the same way.

Like at my school there was a zero-tolerance for fighting. automatic 10days and arrest. It did not give the principal any leeway to decide punishments on a case by case. If big earl doesn't like me and is going to start a fight I may not be able to successfully flee the situation. Once attacked my only option is to just get beat up and hope security quickly grabs him b.c if I throw a punch in self defense then I am "involved" in fighting and face teh same punishment.

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM. Reason : l]

12/18/2007 12:58:30 AM

Policies like this are ridiculous.
I'll bet if you tried hard enough you could stab someone with a plastic utensil.

I really disagree with the concept of having today's schools set up as if they're prisons rather than educational institutions.

12/18/2007 1:06:12 AM

i should stab the teacher with my cock and see how many days i get

12/18/2007 1:17:11 AM

Quote :

"Imagine if the judicial system worked the same way."

In many cases, it does work the same way. So do lots of workplaces.

And that's why it's unfair to single out the school system, as if it's not a reflection of the rest of society.

12/18/2007 1:33:39 AM

Quote :

"Once attacked my only option is to just get beat up and hope security quickly grabs him b.c if I throw a punch in self defense then I am "involved" in fighting and face teh same punishment."

IIRC, if one student punched another, they BOTH got in trouble at my HS. Really dumb.

12/18/2007 9:40:12 AM

^^ no not really i may get harassed by the cops but i can get a lawyer to deal with the courts. In public schools the principal is pretty much a totalitarian leader.

12/18/2007 11:42:40 AM

Quote :

"I'll bet if you tried hard enough you could stab someone with a plastic utensil."

Or a pencil. A friend of mine stabbed me with one back when I was a child. My hand still bears the mark.

12/18/2007 1:52:41 PM

Quote :

"Is a steak knife a weapon? What about a pocket knife? Do you often fear that the 10 year olds around you are seeking to stab you?"

yes, knives are weapons. punishing kids who bring them to school is warranted. if they're 10 years old, arresting them is obviously over the top/

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 5:22 PM. Reason : ,]

12/18/2007 5:18:45 PM

And the little plastic knife they hand out in the cafeteria? Or to put it more accurately, what makes it a weapon and makes it so that it's ok for the school to hand out plastic knives, but a kid can't bring a steak knife to cut their food?

12/18/2007 5:31:03 PM

common sense and discretion

12/18/2007 5:35:17 PM

Unlike guns, knives are both tools and weapons.

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 6:13 PM. Reason : speak English!]

12/18/2007 6:13:24 PM

^^ And what part of common sense and discretion says that all metal knives are weapons and all plastic ones are not?

12/18/2007 7:41:22 PM

the part you don't have i guess

these plastic knives aren't fucking melted, shaped, and hardened prison shanks dude



[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 9:33 PM. Reason : .]

12/18/2007 9:21:05 PM

Except these are 10 year old kids in school, not murderers in prison. I thought we're supposed to be using common sense and discretion here.

12/18/2007 9:39:51 PM

Not worth it.

[Edited on December 18, 2007 at 10:02 PM. Reason : -]

12/18/2007 10:01:01 PM

because everyone in prison is a murderer and every 10 year old is an angel

no where in this thread did i say arresting the 10 year old was the correct thing to do

HOWEVER, the kid should most definitely be punished by the school. perhaps a day of ISS. you cannot bring knives to school, period. Lesson learned.

12/18/2007 10:11:12 PM

Statisticaly, someone in prison is more likely to stab you than a random 10 year old.

Quote :

"no where in this thread did i say arresting the 10 year old was the correct thing to do "

And no where did I say that some punishment in this situation was no waranted.

However, I am questioning the wisdom of a blanket ban on knives in general. Because as I pointed out before, aside from the blanket ban on knives in school, I see nothing wrong with a 10 year old bringing a steak knife to cut their steak with.

She wasn't waving it around, she didn't have it out at an inappropriate time and she didn't threaten anyone or try to draw attention to herself. So in effect, this ban takes a perfectly legitimate, reasonable and legal action, and turns it into an offence at best and a crime at worst, for no other reason than to make some uptight paranoid parents feel safer.

12/18/2007 11:50:04 PM

By the way, [some] knives are allowed on campus. I sharpened a pencil with my pocket knife during a zoology test. The professor smiled and gave me a fresh pencil.

12/19/2007 11:05:43 AM

^^

yeah our 10 yr olds should be allowed to bring their 9mm to school b.c we don't want to take away their 2nd amendment right. Never know if they had guns Columbine might not have happened


KANT TUKIN ERRR GUNS!!!

12/19/2007 11:16:29 AM

Given that 10 year olds can't own guns in the first place, I fail to see your point.

Do you seriously feel it's rational to ban all knives from school?

12/19/2007 2:29:11 PM

I've never used a gun to prepare food or open packages.

12/19/2007 5:05:07 PM

Well, to be fair to his point of view, the first step to preparing previously live food is killing it. But as a general rule, the steak that a 10 year old would bring to school is probably already dead.

12/19/2007 5:20:54 PM

cut up your precious steak at home instead of whining about being punished for breaking a completely reasonable rule

[Edited on December 19, 2007 at 5:32 PM. Reason : ,]

12/19/2007 5:32:23 PM

I'm asking you what's reasonable about it.

12/19/2007 6:34:53 PM

an all out ban on knives at school is reasonable because giving kids any excuse to bring a knife to school is irresponsible and potentially dangerous

jesus christ man. what kind of school did you go to when you were growing up. when i was in 5th grade i damn sure knew kids who i wouldnt want having an excuse to have knives

12/19/2007 6:39:06 PM

Quote :

"an all out ban on knives at school is reasonable because giving kids any excuse to bring a knife to school is irresponsible and potentially dangerous"

Because the frequency with which 10 year olds leap out and stab people without any warning is greater than the chance of a polar bear mauling school children in flordia?

Quote :

"jesus christ man. what kind of school did you go to when you were growing up. when i was in 5th grade i damn sure knew kids who i wouldnt want having an excuse to have knives"

In a school where I wasn't in fear for my life from 10 year olds. What school did you go to that you were in fear for your life every day?

Perhaps the more prudent and reasonable thing to do is focus on the children whom you fear might stab someone rather than punishing all children for the potential actions of one.

12/19/2007 6:56:19 PM

n/m, i'll ignore the sarcasm and reply ok

Quote :

"Because the frequency with which 10 year olds leap out and stab people without any warning is greater than the chance of a polar bear mauling school children in flordia?"

irrelevant

Quote :

"What school did you go to that you were in fear for your life every day?"

Quote :

"focus on the children whom you fear might stab someone"

what does this even mean?

Quote :

"rather than punishing all children for the potential actions of one."

a ban on knives is not a punishment, sorry

[Edited on December 19, 2007 at 7:24 PM. Reason : ok, so i didn't really ignore it, i just gave it a ]

12/19/2007 7:05:00 PM

Quote :

" irrelevant"

So then tell me why allowing children to bring a knife to school for cutting their food with is irresponsible.

As far as potentialy dangerous goes, everything is potentialy dangerous, but we still don't send our kids to school wrapped in bubble wrap (yet). Explain why it's dangerous enough to warrant an outright ban on all knives.

Quote :

" :rolleyes: "

You're the one thats amazed that I went to school where I wasn't in fear of being stabbed.

Quote :

"what does this even mean? "

Jesus christ you are retarded aren't you? You said:

Quote :

"when i was in 5th grade i damn sure knew kids who i wouldnt want having an excuse to have knives"

to which I said:

Quote :

"Perhaps the more prudent and reasonable thing to do is focus on the children whom you fear might stab someone rather than punishing all children for the potential actions of one."

The question at hand is why you feel that banning knives is the appropriate solution rather than adressing the few individuals whom you, even as a child, could pick out as being dangerous?

Quote :

"a ban on knives is not a punishment, sorry "

When you criminalize an innocent action because of fear of what someone else might do at some other time, it is punishing the innocent for the future crimes of the possibly guilty.

12/19/2007 8:08:49 PM

Quote :

"Jesus christ you are retarded aren't you? "

hey buddy, go fuck yourself.

Quote :

"You're the one thats amazed that I went to school where I wasn't in fear of being stabbed."

i am?

Quote :

"The question at hand is why you feel that banning knives is the appropriate solution rather than adressing the few individuals whom you, even as a child, could pick out as being dangerous?"

to which I asked, "what does this even mean," i.e.) explain to me how you'll be adressing [sic] the individuals who you think may or may not one day do something. are you going to ban knives from kids who look dangerous? how is that any more prudent and fair than an all out ban?

and explain how it fits in with your awesome logic here:

Quote :

"When you criminalize an innocent action because of fear of what someone else might do at some other time, it is punishing the innocent for the future crimes of the possibly guilty."

seriously, re-read what you JUST FUCKING WROTE, i'll quote it again:

Quote :

"Perhaps the more prudent and reasonable thing to do is focus on the children whom you fear might stab someone rather than punishing all children for the potential actions of one."

and

Quote :

"The question at hand is why you feel that banning knives is the appropriate solution rather than adressing the few individuals whom you, even as a child, could pick out as being dangerous?"

so we shouldn't ban knives from school kids just because we fear that someone some day may stab someone....

...but we should preemptively deal with kids who we think some day may stab someone.

does not compute

but hey, if you'd like to send your kids to a school where knives are allowed to be freely carried by anyone, be my guest. i'll be sending mine across town to the school not filled with crazy


[Edited on December 19, 2007 at 9:17 PM. Reason : ,]

12/19/2007 8:54:20 PM

Quote :

"i am? "

Yes, you are. To wit:

Quote :

"jesus christ man. what kind of school did you go to when you were growing up. when i was in 5th grade i damn sure knew kids who i wouldnt want having an excuse to have knives"

Quote :

"to which I asked, "what does this even mean," i.e.) explain to me how you'll be adressing [sic] the individuals who you think may or may not one day do something. are you going to ban knives from kids who look dangerous? how is that any more prudent and fair than an all out ban? "

Those who would stab their classmates at some point in the future usualy act out in other ways before stabbing. Address that, and address the issues that are causing 10 year olds to want to stab someone in the first place. Is it really that difficult of a concept for you?

If you can't accurately and precisely articulate what reason you have to fear that any one particular kid would stab his classmate, then you can't legitimately ban a knife, as you have no reason to. If you can accurately and precisely articulate your reasoning for any one particular kid, then you can also address the problems which are leading to those behaviors. Anything else is emotional feel good responses that do nothing to solve the actual problem. See also bans on liquids aboard airlines.

Quote :

"so we shouldn't ban knives from school kids just because we fear that someone some day may stab someone.... ...but we should preemptively deal with kids who we think some day may stab someone. does not compute"

It makes perfect sense. A blanket and universal ban is at minimum ineffective and at worse counter productive. On the other hand, precise targeted responses to concerns are the most effective method of dealing with the problem. Again, if you can single out the child that concerns you, you can also single out the problems or remove the child.

Quote :

"but hey, if you'd like to send your kids to a school where knives are allowed to be freely carried by anyone, be my guest. i'll be sending mine across town to the school not filled with crazy "

Again, do you often live in fear that you will be stabbed by a 10 year old?

12/19/2007 10:28:10 PM

fuck it, nevermind. i don't feel like debating your shitty logic anymore, or this topic for that matter.

we'll just have to agree to disagree

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 12:43 AM. Reason : .]

12/20/2007 12:25:23 AM