who cares about the south? It should be a popular vote anyway, right?

1/4/2008 5:18:01 PM

should be and is are two different things.

a democrat has to carry some of the south to win. they can't ignore it if they plan to win the presidency.

1/4/2008 5:19:30 PM

Obama is carrying the youth right now, that alone could help him pull the South. Except for Florida, thats were we send folks to die.

1/4/2008 5:20:46 PM

here are some combinations that would be immediately struck down by the cowardly republican smear machine under the guise of some third-party interest group. you know, "Crackers for Truth" or some such...

Obama/Bloomberg nigger/jew 08
Obama/Richardson nigger/spic 08
Obama/Clinton nigger/bitchcakes 08
Obama/Edwards two incompetent inexperienced first-term senators 08

here's one i just thought of...

Obama/Clark

... hmm ...

somebody poke a hole in that one.

1/4/2008 6:41:32 PM

That's actually not half bad of an idea...

1/4/2008 6:45:28 PM

you heard it here first

1/4/2008 6:56:05 PM

this was being suggested in this forum months ago and pundits over the course of the past six months. so no, i didn't.

but to my 2 cents in: i'd like to see biden in obama cabinet in some form. but i don't know having two senators on a ticket might be a bad idea.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 7:12 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2008 7:11:42 PM

damn... so much for my e-fame.



but hey, doesn't it count if i thought it up all on my own, as long as i wasn't paying attention when someone else said it?

1/4/2008 7:15:54 PM

i think it's a pretty decent idea. i wouldn't hate for him to choose clark

1/4/2008 7:16:44 PM

and here come the flood of FW'd emails

Quote :

"Who is Barack Obama? Something that should be considered when you make your choice. If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all your contacts...it is very scary to think of what could lie ahead for us here in our own United States...better heed t his and pray about it and share it. We checked this out on " snopes.com". It is factual. Check for yourself. Who is Barack Obama? U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white Athiest from Wichita , Kansas. Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii . When Obama was two years old, his par ents divorced. His father returned to Kenya His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia . When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two years in a Catholic school. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical. Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was t emporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta . Wahabism is the RADICAL ISLAMIC teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States , Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran. Barack Hussein Oba ma will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States , one of their own!!!! Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading our country?...... NOT ME!!! Maybe all the things you read from emails are not true, but this one goes along with the pic that I send out a few months ago with Obama not putting his had over his heart for the pledge. Hey but Opra backs Obama so he must be O.K right...?"

1/4/2008 7:20:15 PM

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 7:56 PM. Reason : biting tongue]

1/4/2008 7:37:11 PM

Quote :

"sarijoul : having two senators on a ticket might be a bad idea"

two senators on one presidential ticket, i think, is an exceedingly bad idea.

when there is an incumbent President running for re-election, or a sitting Vice President running
for election (think George H.W. Bush in 1988), a Senator essentially has no chance to win.

In fact, there have only been two (2) times since the Civil War that a Senator has beat an
incumbent Prez or sitting Vice Prez for the presidency in general election:

1960: Sen. John F Kennedy beat sitting Vice-President Richard Nixon
by the slimmest margin ever for a US Presidential election. it was an unusual event due to it
being the first time debates were televised (and Nixon looking really haggard)

1888: Senator Benjamin Harrison beat incumbent President Grover Cleveland.
in the most notoriously fraudlent election with evidenced ballot-stuffing by the Republican party
that directly changed the election outcome in at least two states, giving Harrison the victory.

also note that in both cases, the winning Senator was a military officer and decorated war hero.

...

Basically, a Senator can only win a Presidential election if it's an open contest with no incumbents.
This is such an election.

But it's obviously such a serious detriment when facing an opponent with any executive experience,
that Obama can't afford another Senator on his ticket.







[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 8:06 PM. Reason : ]

1/4/2008 7:38:55 PM

Obama/Osama 2008

Don't blame me, it was that boose-hound in the senate's idea.

1/4/2008 7:39:51 PM

No way. Senator Kennedy would never say such a thing.

1/4/2008 8:10:21 PM

Quote :

"who cares about the south? "

Gore, maybe, in 2000, when he lost both Tennessee and Florida. I mean, if he'd carried his own state he would have won.

Quote :

"Obama can't afford another Senator on his ticket"

Can he afford a governor though? Does he really want someone with more executive experience running as his #2?

Quote :

"Obama/Clark"

Something about this strikes me as disconcerting, namely that Clark, while an experienced military officer, doesn't always have his marbles together and has a number of enemies among former General Officers in the military. I think that a former military officer beats having another Senator (though Biden is a possibility) and definitely beats a governor. Obama isn't weak on domestic policy, he's weak on foreign policy, so this could work out well . . . well, for him at least.

and WTF is up with all the Bloomberg mentions This guy is barely different from Clinton or Giuliani, he brings nothing to the ticket whatsoever. Sorry, but the people who keep mentioning Bloomberg's name are about as out of touch with politics as those who actually think that Obama would lose votes due to his race.

1/4/2008 8:41:35 PM

Quote :

" and slouches. "

that's it, i can't vote for a man with bad posture

1/4/2008 8:48:11 PM

Quote :

"He's really quite an orator."

So was.... (drum roll) ......HITLER!!!!

Seriously....after two terms of being forced to listen to Bush mangle the language...anyone who can put a decent sentence together is going to seem refreshing.

Problem is...once you get past the slick hip style and terrific speaking skills...you're left with the same old socialist hyping the same old socialist dreck.

1/4/2008 10:29:27 PM

Wow that forwarded email was something

1/4/2008 11:07:11 PM

^^ godwins law



[old]



[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 12:24 AM. Reason : ]

1/5/2008 12:08:24 AM

that forwarded message is also like 6 months old....my hardcore repub friend sent me that shit forever ago...one sec, i'll edit and put what day i got it if i didnt delete it

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 12:18 AM. Reason : bummer...i deleted it sometime before june i think]

1/5/2008 12:11:05 AM

Quote :

"Can he afford a governor though? Does he really want someone with more executive experience running as his #2?"

im missing something here. how would a governor (or large-city mayor) hurt the ticket? and how does a VP in any administration other than Bush #43 have any power? Cheney's power in the office of the VP, i hopetofuckinggod, is just an anomaly. The VP has typically never had any of his own power aside from breaking ties in the Senate.

Quote :

"Something about ["Obama/Clark"] strikes me as disconcerting, namely that Clark, while an experienced military officer, doesn't always have his marbles together and has a number of enemies among former General Officers in the military. I think that a former military officer beats having another Senator (though Biden is a possibility) and definitely beats a governor. Obama isn't weak on domestic policy, he's weak on foreign policy, so this could work out well . . . well, for him at least."

not sure why you think Clark doesn't "have his marbles together"... does anyone in the current administration strike you as particularly lucid? anyhow, who cares if he has enemies among "former" general officers. besides the fact that their "former"... it's the elected civilian President who is the C-in-C that the general officers have to account to. not the other way around.

the whole point of choosing a VP purely to assuage the voting public that the ticket is balanced by a VP who has strengths/experiences where the President might not have so much, because the voting public likes to believe that while the VP will not (should not!) have any direct executive powers, he will be a close adviser and confidante to the President.

Quote :

"and WTF is up with all the Bloomberg mentions :grr: :grr: :grr: This guy is barely different from Clinton or Giuliani, he brings nothing to the ticket whatsoever. Sorry, but the people who keep mentioning Bloomberg's name are about as out of touch with politics as those who actually think that Obama would lose votes due to his race."

look, i know you're from the South, right? you can not seriously tell me that putting a black AND a jew on the same Democratic presidential ticket, is somehow not going to matter??? Certainly you've been paying attention the past few years... Democrats already have an uphill battle in the South for national offices.

1/5/2008 12:22:32 AM

Quote :

"not sure why you think Clark doesn't "have his marbles together"... does anyone in the current administration strike you as particularly lucid? "

No, and that's kind of the point. I'd rather not have another batshit insane VP, thx.

1/5/2008 12:41:52 AM

Quote :

"I'd rather not have another batshit insane VP, thx."

Obama/Kucinich '08!

1/5/2008 1:11:09 AM

okay.. im going to go ahead and show my ignorance here.

i havent really been paying much attention to Wes Clark for the past 3 years.

why do you think hes a nutcase?

1/5/2008 1:58:02 AM

Quote :

"im missing something here. how would a governor (or large-city mayor) hurt the ticket? "

I don't know that it would hurt the ticket, you just wouldn't want your VP overshadowing your Pres, but the more I think about it, that'll be pretty hard with Obama.

Quote :

"not sure why you think Clark doesn't "have his marbles together"... does anyone in the current administration strike you as particularly lucid?"

Touche.

Well, Cheney has his shit together, I'll give him that, just not in the way I'd like.

I'm just saying that Clark is a very controversial figure and this could come out in the campaign, there might be other military officers out there who are better suited, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Quote :

"i know you're from the South, right? you can not seriously tell me that putting a black AND a jew on the same Democratic presidential ticket, is somehow not going to matter???"

I think you mis-understood me, I don't think that Bloomberg is a good choice. I don't think he has a snowballs shot in "h-e-double hockey stick" of pulling any real votes as a third party, I don't think he offers any sort of alternative to candidates already out there, so I get frustrated when he's touted as the left's moderate savior.

What I have said before, is that there aren't many progressive voters sitting around the house discussing how they agree with Obama's policy and admire his oratorical abilities, but won't vote for him because he is black. He might lose some union votes in the rust-belt, but I don't think anyone in the South who was going to vote Democratic in the first place, will be turned off from Obama in the except for a few older folks who've been voting Democratic since Jefferson Davis.

1/5/2008 10:21:15 AM

The only state Obama has a slight chance at winning in the South is Fl.....Hillary has a better chance and it will come down to who wins Florida for the Presidency...I dont see Obama being able to beat the Republican. In fact, he might cause the Dems to loose seats in the House and maybe Senate.

1/5/2008 4:00:29 PM

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 4:01 PM. Reason : n/m]

1/5/2008 4:00:58 PM

Obama's wife will be another Hillary.

1/5/2008 4:43:32 PM

Quote :

"Problem is...once you get past the slick hip style and terrific speaking skills...you're left with the same old socialist hyping the same old socialist dreck."

i have a feeling Obama will be very Bill Clinton-esque with the economy. he is surrounded by economics guys from the University of Chicago. i think he, like Bill, gets it: Its about teaching men to fish, not simply giving them fish.

1/5/2008 5:26:48 PM

why are repubs so against social stuff like socialized medicine, social security and stuff like that?

1/5/2008 5:31:15 PM

Doesn't being surrounded by guys from chicago mean that he will be corrupt as shit?

1/5/2008 5:38:15 PM

chicago's one black mayor from the 80s was notoriously fair. there was a "this american life" about him a while back. but yeah, before and after that guy there was a LOT of corruption and bribery going on. i wish i could think of his name.

1/5/2008 5:40:04 PM

^^^ because centralized public works on a large scale are often inefficient. they're right for the most part. however, the law of large numbers generally saddles any entity that's excessively large with a degree of inertia. this is true of large corporations as much as it is with governments. the difference is the amount of accountability within each of the entities - even that's arguable. with people representing policy on both sides of the seesaw, our democratic experiment usually finds a way to convert on third down.

^^ nah, they're from The University of ...

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2008 5:43:38 PM

DNL, I'm against that shit on a national level because it is unConstitutional, first and foremost.

moreover, 9 times out of 10, the gov't fucks up everything it touches. The LAST THING I want is the government running something as important as healthcare.

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2008 5:50:24 PM

Quote :

"DNL, I'm against that shit on a national level because it is unConstitutional, first and foremost."

If it's a national-sized problem, shouldn't the national government be expected to help fix it?

1/5/2008 8:21:53 PM

Obama/Paul............. ?

1/5/2008 8:37:18 PM

Quote :

"i have a feeling Obama will be very Bill Clinton-esque with the economy. "

The thing that made the 90s economy successful was the dems losing the congress in '94 after ramming through that huge tax increase. That pretty much stopped the Clinton train.

One thing that would give me hope about Obama is that he is the first Gen-Xer to run for Prez. That generation isn't as excited about hand-outs and taxation as the Boomers.

The tricky part for conservatives is the upcoming Millenial generation. They are very civic-minded, love to vote and think big gov't and central authority isn't always that bad. They are similar to the GI generation..who, flush with a war victory, thought big things could be accomplished through gov't.

1/5/2008 10:46:31 PM

he isnt a Generation Xer

he is a late Baby Boomer(period ending in 1964 and he was born in 1961)

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 11:02 PM. Reason : w]

1/5/2008 10:51:00 PM

Obama - O'Malley '08
















not really

1/5/2008 11:30:43 PM

omalley, the tax-raising faggot in md?

1/5/2008 11:41:33 PM

Quote :

"The tricky part for conservatives is the upcoming Millenial generation"

No, it would be figuring out who the fuck they are. They better start getting back to being the party of fiscal conservatism, or the balance of the ideologies is going to be far more out of sync in the next generation than worrying about "handouts".

Which however concerning taxation is not as crazy in situations as you guys keep whining about fyi.

And back on topic Obama/Warner 2008.

The whole more executive experience thing is moot because look at GWB and Cheney. And America voted for those idiots twice.

[Edited on January 6, 2008 at 12:19 AM. Reason : topic!]

1/6/2008 12:16:32 AM

Quote :

"he isnt a Generation Xer "

I was taking my information from the book "Generations" written by Strauss and Howe. They've studied this subject and have written numerous other books on generational analysis. They are... well experts in the field I guess.

Check out their chart here:
http://www.fourthturning.com/my_html/body_generations_in_history.html

What source are you using for your Gen-xer years?

1/6/2008 12:16:43 AM

Quote :

"omalley, the tax-raising faggot in md?"

Glad to see that coulter-like name calling isn't beneath those in TSB.....

1/6/2008 2:59:31 PM

that's right, bitch

1/6/2008 4:16:35 PM

^^^^are you talking about the warner thats running for senate in 2008?

1/6/2008 4:19:46 PM

If Obama wins on the Dems side, and McCain does on the GOP side, not sure Obama can beat McCain one on one. I just want to have the strongest candidate against the Republican and not a feel good story that will not be able to beat the republican....the GOP party is praying Obama wins.

1/6/2008 8:39:04 PM

^really? I think Obama has more of a chance than hillary.

1/6/2008 8:54:38 PM

shit he is running for Senate isn't he?

well then.

1/6/2008 11:03:59 PM

^^Agreed. Obama talks about unifying dems, reps, and independents in his speeches, and many moderate voters love that. Hilary campaigns for change, and given the relatively tiny amount of progress that a democratic congress has made after talking about that same thing, that strategy's not going over quite as well with the voters (so far). Besides that, she's far more polarizing than Edwards and Obama, and would drive away many moderate voters and nearly all republicans. The was I see it, Hil is the least likely Democratic front-runner to win the general election.

1/6/2008 11:41:54 PM

1/6/2008 11:58:07 PM