^
Well I'm afraid you're going have to explain...what's wrong with making a profit?

Very few of the products and services you now enjoy would be available if people weren't doing it for personal gain. Do you think the guy putting seats into cadillacs cares if YOU have something soft to sit on while you're driving? I think he's doing it for his family.

In your thinking, gov't should provide everything so that there is no hint that anyone is making a profit from it. Keep in mind that politicians profit every time gov't gains more power.

[Edited on February 4, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

2/4/2008 10:58:31 AM

Quote :

"Yea, they can get some shit car insurance like Geico indemnity and pay premiums bordering on 1000% more then regular making a civic cost 3000$ per six months to insure. "

Increased risk = increased cost. What a novel concept.

Quote :

"Apply for health insurance and tell them you've had cancer. See if you get approved."

If they could offer you an insurance plan that didn't cover cancer treatments you could. Or similarly, given enough freedoms in the market, you could conceivably buy insurance to only cover the cancer treatments, agreeing to cover smaller costs out of pocket. The more people who can't afford / qualify for cradle to grave coverage the more choices you will see for folks to get the coverage they most need. Furthermore the more people actively paying their own costs and seeking private insurance the more prices will reflect what the people can afford rather than what the corporations can afford.

2/4/2008 11:08:11 AM

Quote :

"Furthermore the more people actively paying their own costs and seeking private insurance the more prices will reflect what the people can afford rather than what the corporations can afford. "

health insurance provided by one's employer will always be optimal. Not only for the "buying in bulk" discount but also if left to do it individually a lot of people would take that extra $xxx ( that compaines would pay out in wages instead of insurance premiums) and spend it in an irresponsible manner. Then when shit fucks up i end up paying for their medical expenses as a part of my premium because of the uninsured patient expense that every hospital pools among all other patients. Next time you visit the ER be sure to check your bill and see how much the "uninsured patient fee".

[Edited on February 4, 2008 at 11:23 AM. Reason : a]

2/4/2008 11:22:29 AM

Quote :

"What i wonder is how women like that reproduce. Some guy is that desperate that they resorted to fucking schamoo "

i was wondering even with a mate how the hell they can physically reproduce lol

2/4/2008 2:04:02 PM

if you want to compare auto insurance to health insurance then auto insurance will also have to cover regular maintenance, check ups, tires and any other wear and tear maintenance.

2/4/2008 2:04:57 PM

lol, maybe the guy puts on one of those sleeping masks so he doesn't throw up as he mounts his behemoth of a woman.

^ Health Insurance does this b.c it lowers their inherent costs in the long term. You really do not think BCBS gives out free flu shots in the sake of charity and compassion towards those getting the flu do you??

[Edited on February 4, 2008 at 2:07 PM. Reason : a]

2/4/2008 2:05:31 PM

flu shot? whats that?

2/4/2008 2:07:43 PM

1337 b4k4 is actually making me laugh.


"hay ya well if Health Insurance wasn't as shitty as it is right now then I'd totally be right"

-summary if your point.

2/4/2008 9:51:35 PM

Quote :

"I don't ever remember having a soda machine avaliable until i was in high school. At that point 16 yr olds can just as easily stash a coke in their backpack. Might as well make 50 cents off the transaction"

You can't stop being a dickwad even when people are agreeing with you can you?

2/4/2008 9:53:49 PM

2/5/2008 2:59:49 AM

Quote :

""hay ya well if Health Insurance wasn't as shitty as it is right now then I'd totally be right""

Of course that's the point. Change how we do health care and health care gets better. Else, why would you change healthcare if not to improve it?

2/5/2008 9:26:17 AM

That's fine but I thought the tack record was:

condition before government gets invovled > condition after government gets involved

Dame una hamburguesa

Learn it now.

2/5/2008 9:52:29 AM

funny thing is, the guy who sponsored the bill is like 5'11" 240.

2/5/2008 10:13:39 AM

Alright then, to all you who support this, a few questions -

A. what do you do about the people who actually do have documented, verified, medical problems that lead to weight problems? (not the other way around). Hypothyroidism and certain horomonal disorders not all of which are even adequately treatable. more of which aren't treated untill the person is already large. Do you tell them - tough shit go join the ranks of folks who eat fast food every day and 3x the regular meal portion? We'll punish him for his actions, and you for something out of your control entirely?

Nobody *makes* you speed in a car, nothing *forces* people to drive like asshats.
Nothing forces you to eat mcdonalds.
But I guarantee you - the people who actually have these problems- you aint gonna see chowin down very often on the McDeath or whatever else you'd like to associate with fat people.

And yes, I support that most cancer patients should also be insurable. (Most, because there are a few lack-wits out there who invite their own demise - by doing known to be stupid things all the time).

B. Do you think fat people don't work or something? No really. What sparks the concept that none of them pay for their own health insurance, or work 40-80 hours a week just like EVERYBODY else?

And if you really want the government to help this situation-
1. Ban High Fructose Corn Syrup. it's terrible for you, and in EVERYTHING - even things that you wouldnt think it would be. For instance-
Light Yogurt, A lot of "juice drinks" or even things labeled as if juice with careful wording, Jelly, Jam, soda, some crackers, even products labeled as whole fruit doesnt mean they didn't add HFCS to it. It's not as satisfying as regular sugar (quote studies not personal opinion, i try to avoid the crap and truly couldn't give you a comparison) - doesnt metabolize right, and packs in TONS of extra calories to like 50% of what's in a grocery store. No duh people, no duh.
2. Community funded gyms. No, really. Think of it like an indoor park. The gym buisness is corrupt to the core, and expensive usually for those not fortunate enough to have it at work or get discounts somehow.
3. Well Designed Cities- that encourage walking. Not just walkways sprawling all over, but actual fore-thought - this wont help a lot of existing towns/cities but it would help those that are small and growing.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2008 11:12:05 PM

My question is how would this be put into practice? Does anyone who looks borderline have to carry some kind of card saying whether they're obese? Or do you have to get on a scale when you walk through the door?

It's not in a restaurant's best interest to deny people service, especially the people who are presumably their best customers, so unless denial of service is based on something concrete, I don't seem them denying too many people.

And even if they do, how hard would it be for an obese person to get a buddy to go order them a triple cheeseburger? Refusing alcohol to anyone <21 doesn't stop too many people from drinking, after all, and this wouldn't stop many fat people from eating crap.

2/21/2008 10:31:59 AM

If this bill refers to the obese people that sit at home and collect disability then I'm all for this.

2/21/2008 11:09:34 AM

how exactly is the gym business corrupt????
are you insinuating they should have discount memberships for the poor?
You do not need a gym membership to exercise or workout. Buy a few dumbells or strap on your running shoes. Fact is people are just lazy and ignorant regarding nutrition and thus end up being fat.

Quote :

" Do you think fat people don't work or something? No really. What sparks the concept that none of them pay for their own health insurance, or work 40-80 hours a week just like EVERYBODY else? "

well they may health insurance but everyone who lives a healthy lifestyle subsidizes the health problems that obesity causes. Whereas cancer and other malicious diseases are often unavoidable; people choose to live a gluttonous sedentary lifestyle. Exactly like people choose to smoke cigarettes and a lot of health insurance companies make these people pay a premium.

2/21/2008 11:41:21 AM

^ have you not sat up and read most of the news about what most gym owners at least in this part of the country do and sometimes get convicted for?

The *actual* buisness of running a gym - is in and of itself not corrupt. Neither is used car sales.

But there's good reason to be wary of both.
I'm insinuating that tax dollars would be better spent on a public (for everybody, not just fat people and not just poor people) gym, than any kind of bullshit law enforcement.

Most overweight folks do already pay a premium to their health insurance for it. Just like smokers.
Employee pools are generally the exception, but then almost noone in the company will pay higher premiums than someone else.

2/21/2008 8:01:31 PM

Quote :

"Even if our nanny state rulers stopped restaurants from serving fat people, they would still be able to make poor choices in the privacy of their own homes. The only way to prevent private individuals from making bad personal decisions that affect only their own bodies would be to remove all privacy from eating. This would entail removing all possibilities for a person to exercise his free will when it comes to eating. The state would force grocery stores to sell only low-calorie health food in restricted quantities, prohibit private gardens, dictate the number of calories each person may purchase each week via a rationing system, force each American to regularly report his weight and diet to a national database, and even make illegal the sharing of one's food (just like prescription drugs). And then our overlords would still require nutrition police to randomly search refrigerators and burst in on dinnertime in order to catch offenders. I know that scenario sounds ridiculous. But then so is the idea that a restaurant is responsible for the health problems of fat people who choose to eat too much. "

2/21/2008 9:00:25 PM

I have a feeling that the people that are already fat b.c they are too lazy to exercise wouldn't go to the gym even if it was free and public. Think about it if they were not lazy they'd likely have gotten a better job and thus a $10/month fee to planet fitness would be no biggie

2/21/2008 9:50:00 PM

If we had this law maybe Costner would still be worth a damn...

2/21/2008 10:22:33 PM

Quote :

"I say that we just put much narrower doors everywhere to discourage excessive girth. The only real downside is that it would inconvenience people in wheelchairs."

why should the cripples get a free pass? They are a strain on the medical industry just like fat people!

I say no cripples either!

Or retards!

2/22/2008 12:21:57 PM

As we learn more about genetics, I'll be able to come back to this thread and call all you fuckers out for being fucking racists.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 1:32 PM. Reason : Fat is a race. Get used to it, btiches.]

2/22/2008 1:32:03 PM

^ That's like saying white people who go to tanning beds all the time are a separate race.

Yes, some fat people have genetic ties to their obesity and will be fat despite their best efforts, but not the guy who's shoveling down 3 burgers, a gallon of Coke and a full-size bag of chips at every meal, all while sitting on the couch watching TV.

You can't say that all fat people are completely out of control over their weight.

2/22/2008 1:57:15 PM

Guess what kind of fat person Bridget is.

2/22/2008 2:01:19 PM

Quote :

" Apply for health insurance and tell them you've had cancer. See if you get approved."

This is one of the many reasons why states, such as North Carolina, have created high risk pools. I know if I didn't get health insurance through my employer I wouldn't be able to afford it due to a cancer scare, which ended up not being cancer. When I was pricing out self pay health insurance for myself, the costs over the year would have been half of my earnings for that year. It is unconscionable that people are either unable to afford health insurance or are denied health insurance because of higher risk that is not even their fault.

2/22/2008 2:08:21 PM

I have no problem with fat people crossing the border for a burger...








...as long as they walk across the border.

2/22/2008 4:05:22 PM

yea

have all of the burger joints be in arkansas and louisiana - on the other side of the River.

2/22/2008 4:16:19 PM

Quote :

"Skwinkle: ^ That's like saying white people who go to tanning beds all the time are a separate race. Yes, some fat people have genetic ties to their obesity and will be fat despite their best efforts, but not the guy who's shoveling down 3 burgers, a gallon of Coke and a full-size bag of chips at every meal, all while sitting on the couch watching TV. You can't say that all fat people are completely out of control over their weight."

I think most everybody has some control over their weight.

I think it's unfair for those folks who come from thinner backgrounds, have higher metabolisms, etc...to judge fat folks.

Furthermore, the people who are "shoveling down three burgers, a gallon of coke, and full-size bag of chips at every meal" suffer from a clinical eating disorder. I find it hard to look at that with anything but sympathy. I mean, when I mention genetics, I'm not just talking about fat genes. I'm talking about genes related to impulse control, depression/anxiety, sleep disorders, addiction, etc... There's a lot that plays into our relationships with food, and we haven't even mentioned environment...

2/22/2008 4:18:31 PM

cases of people that have a real gland/neurological issue causing them to be fat are only a small fraction of the overall cases...fatties just tend to latch on to that as justification for over-eating.

that being said, i don't think the gov should start telling people what to eat....but, at the same time, everyone shouldn't have to pay for their poor health choices either.

2/22/2008 4:26:24 PM

Quote :

"I think most everybody has some control over their weight."

Quote :

"the people who are "shoveling down three burgers, a gallon of coke, and full-size bag of chips at every meal" suffer from a clinical eating disorder."

Don't you think you kind of contradicted yourself there?

2/22/2008 4:34:07 PM

so who gets to make the determination of whether or not a patron is obese? the server? the manager? are they going to start putting people's BMI on their driver's license now?

I'd love to get kicked out of a Subway in Mississippi because the guy behind the counter thought I was too big.

2/22/2008 6:00:12 PM

^^^True. That's why I listed all those other factors involved.

^^No, I don't.

most, some...

2/22/2008 8:59:55 PM

Quote :

"I think it's unfair for those folks who come from thinner backgrounds, have higher metabolisms, etc...to judge fat folks. Furthermore, the people who are "shoveling down three burgers, a gallon of coke, and full-size bag of chips at every meal" suffer from a clinical eating disorder. I find it hard to look at that with anything but sympathy. I mean, when I mention genetics, I'm not just talking about fat genes. I'm talking about genes related to impulse control, depression/anxiety, sleep disorders, addiction, etc... There's a lot that plays into our relationships with food, and we haven't even mentioned environment... "

Dead on.

/thread

2/24/2008 11:08:35 PM

I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the fat people here are just somehow losing control of their eating habits. Either they parents aren't stopping them from eating, or teaching them not to eat, or something about our society compels people to eat too much.

I can understand a small amount of people actually having an eating disorder, but the vast majority of fat people are just disgusting lumps of blubber, as this chart, I think, shows. Americans are probably the most genetically diverse of those countries, but we're the fattest by a wide margin. So I don't think most people can use the excuse that it's not really their fault.

2/24/2008 11:39:12 PM

that graph is fucking embarrassing. it's so true, too. i was on the ski chairlift a few weeks ago with a dude from Germany, and I don't remember how the subject came up, but he said the #1 stereotype of Americans in Germany is simply "FAT."

Quote :

"I say that we just put much narrower doors everywhere to discourage excessive girth. "

haha, my roommate in college and I built lofts in our room, serviced by a narrow ladder in between them. this ladder was specifically designed as a last ditch safeguard to make absolutely sure that no fat chicks would every find their way into our beds.

Quote :

"I think most everybody has some control over their weight. I think it's unfair for those folks who come from thinner backgrounds, have higher metabolisms, etc...to judge fat folks. "

Fine, I'll bite. I don't come from a thinner background, nor do I naturally have a high metabolism or stay at a trim weight without making an effort.

Not being fat is pretty simple--intake, on average, no more calories than you expend.

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=397882&page=31

browse through that thread. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a fatbody who makes an effort to stay in shape comparable to what I've posted in there. If so, he must have one helluva appetite for Twinkies...like, call the Guinness Book people, because you've found a dude who eats Twinkies like that little Japanese dude eats hot dogs.


All these factors supposedly beyond people's control are a cop out. For one thing, they nearly without exception just make it more difficult. Oh well, too bad. Physiological, environmental, depression/psychological issues, etc...it's not like people in the rest of the world aren't subject to these factors. No, the answer is much more obvious--most Americans eat a metric shit-ton of shitty food, and many are also lazy. Also, since it's gotten to the point that MOST of us are overweight now, we've developed a skewed perception of what constitutes "fat"--and we've lost a lot of the social pressure to stay in decent shape.

2/25/2008 12:39:42 AM

Quote :

"Also, since it's gotten to the point that MOST of us are overweight now, we've developed a skewed perception of what constitutes "fat"--and we've lost a lot of the social pressure to stay in decent shape."

I have to agree with you there. I do feel for people who are overweight despite eating well an exercising. But I think there's a trend toward people who just use "fat genes" as an excuse to not exercise much and eat whatever they want. Just last night I was watching a show about a woman who was >300 pounds because she refused to exercise or monitor what she ate, and she said she always assumed people who were thin had a really high metabolism.

2/25/2008 11:10:48 AM