Here's a video by Dr. Michael Klaper that most everyone should watch. It's about the only thing I really got out of health class:

http://www.bestjuicers.com/ADietForAllReasons.html

Eating meat is not as healthy as you probably think. In fact, most of us would be a lot healthier if we eat less meat. Klaper also directly addresses the omnivore argument. Our bodies are actually not that well adapted to eat as much meat as we do and it's leading to major health problems (your arteries don't get clogged from eating too much peanut better).

The simply fact of it is that we could get by pretty well without eating meat. The only things we get from meat that we can't get easily from other sources is protein. But there are alternatives, even if they are not as tastey.

And that's really the sum of it. Being a vegitarian is not fun. So people don't do it. People kill animals because it's fun and it's easier than going veg.

Pure and simple. So get off your high horse. This golfer is no more morally guilty than you.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ``]

3/7/2008 3:01:38 PM

^ bullshit.

i don't kill animals for glee. i don't kill animals and not eat them.

3/7/2008 3:09:15 PM

But you just got finished saying you eat meat for pleasure. This guy killed a bird for pleasure. You BOTH kill for pleasure. If anything this just makes you a morally challenged pussy. You don't mind killing animals, so long as you don't have to see the blood.

pfft. What an argument.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ``]

3/7/2008 3:12:17 PM

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3/7/2008 3:13:04 PM

this thread is making me hungry for some bojangles

3/7/2008 3:13:29 PM

Threads like these almost always evolve exactly as this one did.

At first, folks want to torture or kill the human. Then somebody comes along and tells them they worse than ey is for this desire, because human life matters more. Vegetarianism invariably comes up.

You've all performed by the book.

3/7/2008 3:41:38 PM

and you, true to style, have managed to be different and have blazed your own trail!

it's awesome how everyone else is so predictable!

3/7/2008 3:42:59 PM

I've actually just disproved free well.

We might as well be Skinner's rats!

3/7/2008 3:45:52 PM

[unsubscribe]

3/7/2008 4:01:31 PM

i really hope Socks and HockeyRoman aren't being serious in this thread..

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 4:09 PM. Reason : agentlion won this thread on Page 1]

3/7/2008 4:09:10 PM

Quote :

"This guy killed a bird for pleasure."

Actually he killed it out of displeasure - with the noise it was making.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM. Reason : -]

3/7/2008 4:33:44 PM

anybody else notice this thread was created today, yet he hit the bird on December 12?

also

Quote :

"Isenhour said he is an animal lover and his family has adopted three cats from a local shelter."

he saved THREE cats!

3/7/2008 4:34:30 PM

Quote :

"Furthermore, did he or anyone think he actually had a chance of hitting this bird in the head with a golf ball from 75yds with only 7 or 8 shots? "

Do you understand what the game of golf is? have you not ever seen how it is played? that's really not that impressive of a shot for a pro golfer.

3/7/2008 4:35:44 PM

i'd beg to differ

hitting something the size of a....hawk at 75 yards is pretty damn impressive

its not like he was 75 yards away, took the first shot and ended up 10 yards away, then took his 2nd shot from 10 yards away and came within 2 feet of the bird, and then took the last shot from 2 feet and hit the bird which would be more in line with how golf is played

3/7/2008 4:37:42 PM

I bet I could hit a hawk sized object at 75 yds, and i've only been to a driving range once, after a couple of tries.

3/7/2008 4:44:17 PM

well you'd be a much better golfer than me

i bet i can hit a hawk with a gun at 75 yards though

3/7/2008 4:47:37 PM

^^ i would love to see that.
video camera + driving range + youtube, please

3/7/2008 4:51:12 PM

^, ^^ think of how different golf would be if golfers had "do overs." It'd probably make the scores better across the board.

3/7/2008 4:53:10 PM

yeah they call those 'mulligans' but obviously they're mainly reserved for amateur/recreational stuff, not PGA pros

3/7/2008 4:56:00 PM

jesus, dude.
1) this really isn't the point
2) you are seriously deluded if you think you can go out on a football field, look 3/4 of the way down, then it an object 1 foot tall and 4-6" wide with a ball 1" around by hitting it with a 4' stick

3/7/2008 4:58:46 PM

Quote :

"I bet I could hit a hawk sized object at 75 yds, and i've only been to a driving range once, after a couple of tries."

I bet you're full of shit.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 5:04 PM. Reason : 2]

3/7/2008 5:03:28 PM

Once at the driving range after a few missed shots I hit the guy driving the ball collector cart.

I felt like the fucking man!

3/7/2008 6:38:23 PM

I hit a squirrel playing frisbee golf once. It didn't die though. Just stunned it a little. Of course, if it died, I would have cooked it and ate it. Thus, eliminating all traces of guilt or responsibility.

3/7/2008 6:47:07 PM

Quote :

"agentlion:jesus christ, get some perspective dude."

That is my perspective. This clown intentionally sought to injure an innocent creature merely for existing.

Quote :

"agentlion:as far as it being protected, you have to look at the intent. Did he know it was protected? Would he have acted the same if he knew it was?"

So he can use ignorance of the law as an excuse for breaking it? As for intent, he intended to track down a bird that he deemed a nuisance and hit it with a high velocity projectile for his own twisted amusement.

Quote :

"robster:Its not like he took his club to it and teed off on his beak or something."

But according to "you people" it's just a dumb animal anyways so why should that matter?

Quote :

"TreeTwista10:A. HockeyRoman is coming off as some kind of fucking psychopath...put somebody in pound me in the ass prison because they killed a bird? Get your fucking head out of your ass and get your priorities straight"

I am sorry that you are ignorant as to what a psychopath is as I fail to meet the criteria of "A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse."http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychopath On the contrary I have great empathy for the creature that was brutally slain for some creep's personal enjoyment. In this regard my priorities are perfectly aligned knowing that at least there are laws in place to punish such deplorable behavior.

Quote :

"TKE-Teg: you seriously prayed for a bird?"

Does my devotion to nature and its creatures bother or offend you in some way?

Quote :

"TreeTwista10:Randy Johnson should be in prison for life and Fabio's face should also be locked up in pound-me-in-the-ass prison"

I don't know the Randy Johnson reference thus I can not comment and as for Fabio he was on a roller coaster and it was completely accidental. It is VERY different than malicious intent and you know it.

Quote :

"TreeTwista10: OH NO HE ACCIDENTALLY KILLED A BIRD"

He didn't "accidentally" kill anything. He intentionally sought to maim and/or kill a hawk simply for existing too close to him and interfering with his little ego-centric video. As a result he should face the full extent of the law. Sadly, we all know this will likely not happen.

Quote :

"TreeTwista10:i will NEVER EVER be able to take anything hockeyroman says seriously again"

Your words pain me sir. Okay, not really. I guess genuine feelings of concern and sadness are lost on you. You have my pity.

Quote :

"Fry:i really hope Socks and HockeyRoman aren't being serious in this thread.."

While I can not vouch for Socks I can guarantee you that my feelings and thoughts are sincere. I would not have prompted this thread had I felt otherwise. But the amount of apathy generated by most of you speaks volumes as to the way most view wanton acts of animal cruelty. That is what I find the most sickening and saddening aspect of all.

Quote :

"TreeTwista10:some of you people care more about birds and puppies than people"

And? To clarify I do sympathize to the taking of innocent human life but I have no objection to admitting that I am personally more distraught over vengeful acts committed against nature and the environment.

[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

3/7/2008 7:14:42 PM

Go cry about your poor bird somewhere else, hockeywoman. Nobody gives a shit.

3/7/2008 7:26:06 PM

Quote :

"Prawn Star:Go cry about your poor bird somewhere else, hockeywoman. Nobody gives a shit."

O rly?

Quote :

"The 1500 in fines is nothing to him. They guy is a giant douche though trying to kill a bird because it made him do another take."

Quote :

"Let the head of PETA get a five or six televised whacks at him with the golf club. That'd be justice."

Quote :

"A selfish, unabated murdering instinct born out of a disregard for life. Like I said. Club the fucker."

Quote :

"$1500 isn't shit to him, but a couple years in prison would do the trick. The guy's a son of a bitch. Throw the book at him. Throw more than the book at him, to be frank."

Quote :

"whats illegal is killing an endangered and protected raptor. whats immoral is doing it for "fun" the guy should be punished to the extent of the law."

So, as usual, you have no clue what you are talking about. But thanks for playing.

3/7/2008 7:38:27 PM

Quote :

"high velocity projectile"

3/7/2008 8:02:29 PM

(from another post, more relevant here...)



i shot a juvenile robin out of a tree with a BB gun once when i was a kid. i really didnt think i would hit it, much less kill it.

i went and looked where it fell and saw that i'd hit it in the throat. its beak was opening and closing and its eyes rolling around, while blood came out of its mouth.

i had to reload the bb gun, aim it point blank to the bird's head, turn my eyes and pull the trigger. little pink bird brains splattered all over the leaf.

it was absolutely horrible. ive never shot another animal since.

---


that said, i think i'd be more likely to give the guy the benefit of the doubt if he is (as is said) truly remorseful and didnt intend to kill the bird. he can make amends without jail time, i think.






[Edited on March 7, 2008 at 8:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/7/2008 8:24:31 PM

HockeyRoman should create a new username and name it DramaQueen cause thats what he seems to be

btw HockeyRoman, the Randy Johnson reference is this

3/7/2008 9:58:24 PM

if i were there i would have congratulated him on a good shot
seriously, that had to be an amazing shot (75 yards)

3/7/2008 10:08:03 PM

Quote :

" "agentlion:jesus christ, get some perspective dude." HockeyRoman: That is my perspective. This clown intentionally sought to injure an innocent creature merely for existing. "

yeah, and your perspective is fucked up, at least by your indications from TSB of what seems to outrage you. Seriously, of all the things going on in the world and country and state to go ape-shit about, picking a rich asshole killing a non-endangered bird on a 1000 to 1 golf shot indicates a lack of perspective and reality.

3/7/2008 10:24:41 PM

^^^ Ad hom aside the clip of the pitcher is completely incidental much like the case with Fabio. But nice try.

^ I actually do have various national and international concerns pertaining to environmental and natural issues. This one just happened to catch my eye. Had it just been a matter of the hawk being accidentally hit by a stray or even good shot then I would have sympathized with the golfer's remorse. The problem is that this guy intentionally sought to harm this creature for no other reason than it annoyed him. How can you people defend this type of mentality/behavior?

3/7/2008 11:07:15 PM

Quote :

"I'd be happy to see this bastard in a federal "Pound you in the ass" prison"

You implied that you wanted a human to be raped because a puppy was killed.

THAT is sick.

THAT is having fucked up priorities.

3/7/2008 11:29:56 PM

If you have never seen the movie "Office Space" then that is clearly your loss. But continue being foolish if you so desire. In regards to the puppy incident I never once said that he should be sent to prison. I advocated a punishment which was far more appropriate. But as usual you needed your hand held to point out your own ignorance.

3/7/2008 11:36:14 PM

marko needs to ctrl-v the pictures of the starving kids in this thread for some perspective

3/8/2008 12:10:48 AM

Quote :

"How can you people defend this type of mentality/behavior?"

nobody here is defending his "behavior". At least i'm not. I think the golfer sounds like a total dick, but that alone is not enough reason to send somebody through the ringer. Also, i am against cruelty to animals, and don't even advocate hunting. I think hunting animals is fine, if that's what you want to do, but personally I cannot imagine how anyone gets pleasure out of that activity, but that's just my view on it.

so once again, this whole thing comes back to perspective. It. was. a. fucking. bird. One Bird. Birds are slaughtered by the million every day for food. Birds are killed by the thousand running into man-made glass walls, windmills and airplane jets. Birds are shot by the thousand by hunters or just rednecks out in the woods with a shotgun and some bird-shot. What makes this situation unique is that it was one apparently somewhat well known guy (or at least well known than the rest of us) choosing a unique method of killing a bird in a public place. That's it. If Johnny Pickuptruck was on his front porch playing his banjo with his inbred cousin and a red-shouldered hawk was squawking and messing up his timing, and Johnny started chucking rocks at it and managed to get a headshot after a few tries, would it make the news? no, of course not. why? because it's one goddamn bird. (and again, a "protected" bird, not an endangered bird)

3/8/2008 12:23:45 AM

The bird was in the way, he wanted to scare it off by hitting near it/hitting it. He had made loud noises in its direction before he started shooting balls at it.

To suggest that he intended to kill the bird out of some bloodlust or sick amusement/pleasure just shows how out of touch you are with anything even remotely resembling intelligent thought.

[Edited on March 8, 2008 at 12:38 AM. Reason : .]

3/8/2008 12:33:47 AM

Quote :

"that said, i think i'd be more likely to give the guy the benefit of the doubt if he is (as is said) truly remorseful and didnt intend to kill the bird. he can make amends without jail time, i think."

DiamondAce's tip #1 on how to not kill birds- Don't hit fucking golf balls at them.

3/8/2008 12:46:09 AM

Quote :

"Do you understand what the game of golf is? have you not ever seen how it is played? that's really not that impressive of a shot for a pro golfer."

hahahaha...dude...

sunday. lets you and me go to the range...everyone is invited. I will bet you my 2007 toyota camry that you could not hit something the size of a hawk from 75 yards away. I will give you 20 balls. It wont happen. You lose and you pay off my camry.

let me know...

[Edited on March 8, 2008 at 6:25 AM. Reason : asdf]

3/8/2008 6:23:35 AM

Quote :

"To suggest that he intended to kill the bird out of some bloodlust or sick amusement/pleasure just shows how out of touch you are with anything even remotely resembling intelligent thought."

If he wasn't trying to kill or injure the bird, he's dumber than it was. He continue trying after a near miss failed to scare it away. I suspect he wanted a hit. Perhaps he figured the bird would survive, but I wouldn't count on that.

3/8/2008 7:18:20 AM

What bird is stupid enough to hold it's ground after 5 or 6 golf balls go whistling by its head? I could see fining the golfer heavily and giving the money to an avian protection group, but any talk of jail time for the guy is simply absurd.

3/8/2008 7:59:03 AM

Quote :

""Isenhour was charged Wednesday with cruelty to animals and killing a migratory bird, misdemeanors that carry a maximum penalty of 14 months in jail and $1,500 in fines.""

Yeah, we're sorry for actually wanting the law upheld. Our bad.

3/8/2008 8:24:33 AM

OK SERIOUSLY

There is a reason this bird was endangered. A dozen or so golf balls come flying by at instant death speeds and it does not fly away. NO FUCKING SHIT THIS BIRD IS ENDANGERED.

I thought it was funny as hell that he nailed it from a distance.

3/8/2008 9:41:39 AM

Hawk was cocky, that's all.

Bird: (Ball whizzes by.) "Is that the best you got, human?"

Human: (Takes another swing.)

Bird: (Stares.) "Come on, man. Give it up. You couldn't hit an elephant from this distance."

Human: (Tries again.)

Bird: (Struck in the head.) "OMFG WTF HAX!!1" (Falls and dies.)

3/8/2008 9:48:43 AM

I kept thinking of Happy Gilmore when I read this article.

3/8/2008 10:01:22 AM

Quote :

""Isenhour was charged Wednesday with cruelty to animals and killing a migratory bird, misdemeanors that carry a maximum penalty of 14 months in jail and $1,500 in fines.""

I've highlighted different words.

Clearly the guy should be raped in prison for the rest of his life for this 14 month maximum misdemeanor.

[Edited on March 8, 2008 at 11:11 AM. Reason : -]

3/8/2008 11:09:21 AM

i wonder if HockeyRoman knows the difference in jail and prison

3/8/2008 11:13:29 AM

I wonder if anyone here know the difference between Protected and Endangered.

3/8/2008 12:18:21 PM

What is the difference?

3/8/2008 12:22:09 PM

Quote :

"Endangered Species - According to section 3 of the Endangered Species Act of 1973, any species which is "in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range.""

http://www.gcdamp.gov/glossary.html

Quote :

"Protected Species - plant and animal species, including all wild birds, protected under the Conservation (Natural Habitats and Conservation) Regulations 1994, the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and subsequent amendments, or other species protected under legislation specific to them."

http://wychavon.whub.org.uk/home/wdc-planning-gen-jargon
http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/sebc/live/localplan/glossary.html


the key point is that Protected Species can be protected for any number of reasons, but not necessarily because they are threatened or endangered. From everything I could find, this particular hawk is "protected as a migratory bird", implying that the reason it is protected is because migratory birds are protected from killing and hunting, not because it's threatened. Here is a list of "BIRDS PROTECTED BY THE MIGRATORY BIRD TREATY ACT"
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/intrnltr/mbta/mbtandx.html
By my estimate there are 850 birds on that list, including 19 types of hawks, and including the red-shoulder hawk in question.
Here is a list comparing the migratory birds on the protected list and a list of Endangered or Threatened birds. The red-shouldered hawk is neither endangered or threatened
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/intrnltr/mbta/compare.pdf


Of course - none of this justifies his actions or gives him an excuse to kill birds willy-nilly. But it does support the notion that there is nothing "special" about this particular bird, just because it has the title of "protected". It also supports the notion that the moral outrage over this incident is because the because the bird sounds unique and nobel because it's protected, and because it's a hawk, which people tend to hold in high regard like eagles. If next week a golfer managed to kill a sparrow or a chicken wandering across the fairway and it makes the headlines and PETA gets involved, i'll eat my words.

3/8/2008 1:11:21 PM