Quote :

"so why should i vote for mccain over obama again? other than the whole staying in iraq forever thing?"

When someone asks you to explain your stance it generally makes you look like an idiot when you respond with questions.

3/15/2008 1:50:36 PM

rofl

3/15/2008 2:06:01 PM

Quote :

"haha yeah really....the repubs act like john mccain would be so much better than barack obama...its like give me a fucking break....anyone with half a brain knows it would be so much better with him than mccain"

its like rofl

3/15/2008 2:15:31 PM

Quote :

"Without weighing in on whether or not the content of Reverend Jeremiah Wright's sermons should be denounced by Barack Obama, I do find one aspect of this story quite troubling. We have now seen more sermons from Barack Obama's minister in 48 hours than we ever did of Mike Huckabee ---- and Mike Huckabee was a presidential candidate for 14 long months. Why is it acceptable to scour every last sermon given by Wright, but only weeks ago we weren't allowed to see or read Mike Huckabee's sermons? In fact, not only was it totally ignored by the traditional media, but the few times the question of Huckabee's sermons was raised, it was brushed aside as inappropriate. Why the hypocrisy? After all, Mike Huckabee was an evangelical Southern Baptist minister who's entire campaign was based on the fact that he was the Christian candidate. Are we to believe that he didn't rail against the US government over abortion in previous sermons? Or homosexuality? We know what he had to say about AIDS victims. I don't imagine one gets to be the be president of the Arkansas Baptist Convention without passionate fire and brimstone sermons as part of his repertoire. So, I find it curious that the traditional media now has its white hot focus on Barack Obama's religion and a few select words by Reverend Jeremiah Wright. After all, Huckabee made his career as an actual preacher. Why the change of heart in the last few weeks? Why does Obama have to be held responsible for every word spoken during Wright's passionate sermons - while Huckabee is allowed a free ride and never questioned about his own words? From his own mouth? Well, it's fair game now. If Huckabee reappears as a VP contender or decides to get in the race in 2012, I think we can safely point to this as justification for wanting to see Huckabee's past - in his own words. Update: As several commenters have pointed out, whenever the subject of Mitt Romney's religion came up - it was portrayed as essentially un-American to even whisper about Romney's Mormonism. I agree that it has no place in politics, but let's make sure this is going both ways."

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/15/114311/053/117/476858

3/15/2008 2:30:12 PM

3/15/2008 2:36:57 PM

^^maybe cause huckabee is white?

3/15/2008 3:05:42 PM

^^i don't get the the quote seems reasonable. please explain how you disagree.

3/15/2008 3:31:02 PM

Quote :

"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies"

That's a pretty weak repsonse in my book. "the subject of this controversy" avoids the actual meat of those horrible statements. How about saying..

"God damn America? Well God damn this preacher..for ignoring the great progress that has been made between the races. ...for instilling race and class hatred in the souls of the very people he is supposed to shepherd. I have to admit that I was alseep during his evil sermons..for if I had actually heard this vile tripe, I would've stood up and challenged him."

Quote :

"Has Obama repeated any of that tripe though? That is the question"

For your answer, just read Obama's tax policy. Rev. Wright blames the woes of his people on rich white people. Obama has translated that hatred into a tax policy that serves nothing but to punish this group.

3/15/2008 3:38:41 PM

there is so much stupid in this thread its ridiculous

3/15/2008 4:25:28 PM

The were completely warranted. If Mike Huckabee ran around preaching damnation of the black people, that America created AIDS, that we lied about Peal Harbor, it would be relevant.

3/15/2008 4:32:03 PM

Quote :

"Sounds like to me that you're the racist, Stan. I have news for you and you may find this shocking, but not every black person is a thug or from the ghetto or collects welfare."

For the record, you're the one suggesting Obama's upbringing in Hawaii means he can't relate to the pastor's sermons. As I imagine you know, racism affects blacks who aren't thugs, from the ghetto, or on welfare.

3/15/2008 5:38:30 PM

Quote :

"^^maybe cause huckabee is white? "

I bet if huckabee got this far in the race, some sermons would have gotten out.

^^ how do you know he didn't?

[Edited on March 15, 2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason : ]

3/15/2008 10:44:17 PM

Quote :

" You wanna brand me as a racist? Prove it mother fucker. Is it because I questioned your candidate's so called "blackness?" I'm willing to bet that your pasty ass lives by the glow of your computer monitor, so how the fuck can you either A) relate to the way black people live or B) dare think that Obama talks about being black that it'll freak white people out. Sounds like to me that you're the racist, Stan. I have news for you and you may find this shocking, but not every black person is a thug or from the ghetto or collects welfare. "

You idolize Jesse Helms, and you hate muslims (which is not really a race but close enough). And as evidenced by this thread, you have a gross misperceptions about the black community in America.

Also, as an FYI, my name is not Stan, and I am not white.

3/15/2008 11:23:48 PM

I like how no one gives a shit about what Pat Robertson says, even though he is endorsing the Republican candidates:

"He agreed with Falwell when Falwell stated that the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks were caused by "pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays, lesbians, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People For the American Way."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson_controversies

I guess that's racism for you.

A White person who speaks to MILLIONS each week on TELEVISION, makes NUMEROUS controversial statements, and says something that reprehensible, yet the Republican candidates who he endorses get no flack.

A Black pastor who speaks to only hundreds of people gets a video leaked on youtube, and now it's some giant controversy.




Oh, and for those wondering why some Black people think that AIDS is a government project, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Study_of_Untreated_Syphilis_in_the_Negro_Male

[Edited on March 15, 2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason : ]

3/15/2008 11:29:39 PM

Completely missing the point. If McCain was a member of Pat Robertson's church for 20 years, married he and his wife, baptized his daughters, etc... then you'd have a point. You're attempting a straw man.

3/15/2008 11:33:36 PM

The point is that who the fuck cares what his pastor thinks? His pastor is not running for President. The whole entire controversy is a big straw man.

Obama has never shown in one remark that he, in any way, embodies any of the opinions or characteristics that his Pastor does.

Contrast that to, say, Mike Huckabee, who says we should rewrite the constitution for the word of God.

Why would you feel that Obama would be any less secular than what he says?

[Edited on March 15, 2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason : ]

3/15/2008 11:36:14 PM

not in the eyes of many people that will probably vote mccain

3/15/2008 11:37:41 PM

For the record, Wlfpk4Life, I'm white as hell.

If you want to demean a pasty liberal, I'm your dude.

3/15/2008 11:38:27 PM

Quote :

"^^i don't get the the quote seems reasonable. please explain how you disagree."

AxlBonBach never explains anything. he just latched on to the hooksaw rolly insult method, but unlike hooksaw, he never bothers to put forth a semi-coherent defense of any position.

the only basic position as we can glean from his use of rollys, must be that "libiruls = bad"

3/15/2008 11:41:47 PM

he goes to that religious college in VA

3/15/2008 11:42:46 PM

Quote :

"Completely missing the point. If McCain was a member of Pat Robertson's church for 20 years, married he and his wife, baptized his daughters, etc... then you'd have a point. You're attempting a straw man. "

Actually those are pretty trivial things for a pastor to do. A lot of pastors would be screwed if conducting a wedding or baptizing someone signified a special relationship between the 2. But, I did read somewhere that he is the godfather of Obama's kids, which could be a bit damning for Obama, but considering all the BS allegations people have made against Obama, I wouldn't accept this without some solid evidence.

3/15/2008 11:52:05 PM

he definetly was an inspirational figure for obama as he writes in his book, and why are folks just assuming racism, I would never vote for huckabee because hes a religious nut either but this still casts some doubt on obama for me

plus if someone can't understand the difference between an endorsment and an association don't bother

3/16/2008 12:21:15 AM

Quote :

"but this still casts some doubt on obama for me"

i hate to admit it... but it is somewhat troubling.

3/16/2008 12:42:03 AM

^ he could be like a sleeper Ron Paul... very intelligent and well spoken on the outside, but deep down inside he's a crazy nutjob.

3/16/2008 12:52:54 AM

Guilt by association anyone?
Can any of you recite every sermon given at your church for the last 20yrs?... Do you know every single topic ever discussed in your church? ...Do you agree with everything you have heard in church?..... Probably not, so why would this man be expected to.

And why is it so hard to believe that someone who spends most of his time in D.C. ---- 1,000 miles from his home in Chicago ---- only attends church a couple times a yr. when most of us live down the road from our church and rarely go? ... How often do you go to church other than at Easter/Christmas?

Obama is as calculating as any other good politician and I doubt he wouldnt have been 20yrs ago when he decided to join the church... Probably went like this:

Quote :

"ya know, if i want to get elected from this mostly black neighborhood to actually change some things.... maybe i should join this mostly black church since it has a strangle-hold on the black community."

And how many of those evangelical whigs in D.C. actually get back to that little ultra-conservative church in Middle-of-Nowhere, Oklahoma that they represent?--- Not many, not often. How many actually care, or believe most of what is said in that church?

Don't you get tired of always being grouped?... This guy is delusional and speaks for himself. Every "black community" isn't like this, every black church isn't like this, and every black kid didn't grow up being called a nigger every day of their life. And every black guy that runs for office doesnt have some pent up anger at America. Just as every white conservative doesn't believe 9/11 and Katrina was God's punishment for America's gay culture, neither does every black church-goer believe AIDS was created to kill off blacks or that America should be damned just because some guy with a pulpit says so.

Ah, whatever

3/16/2008 8:25:49 AM

^ dude, he went there for 20 years... and this pastor is a complete nut... in 20 years he MUST'VE heard something there that was hatred towards America and other insane nutjob things. Especially if they are such good friends, as obama has stated.

3/16/2008 10:18:52 AM

That could be true, it could also be true that the pastor doesn't know how to handle his newfound limelight after one of his friends became a national hit and it went straight to his head.

3/16/2008 11:55:11 AM

i think clinton/obama could beat john mccain

3/16/2008 12:56:24 PM

And here's McCain defending Obama on the matter:

3/16/2008 1:07:54 PM

idk...i think he is lying

/rightwing loon

3/16/2008 1:12:55 PM

I mostly agree with wolfiepakmus

3/16/2008 1:24:54 PM

The point many of you libs seem to miss out on is the fact that obama is basically running his whole campaign on his "judgement" since he doesnt really have a track record. This is far different from just getting an endorsement by some nutjob spouting racist remarks. Obama or McCain cant really control who endorses them or what that person says. Where this differs is bc Obama basically endorses Rev. Wright. And as we have come to see, if your "judgement" tells you to be associated with this type of person, then people have every right to question said judgement.

There is no way Obama had never heard this talk or the opinions of his good friend and preacher over the past 20 yrs. This IS a big deal.

3/16/2008 4:02:38 PM

No I got all that.

3/16/2008 4:07:33 PM

I don't really think Wright is any worse for Obama than John Hagee is for McCain. They've both faced charges of antisemitism, Hagee has said that Katrina was God punishing New Orleans, etc. I don't think either of them have as much sway over either candidate as people like to believe, and it should and probably will be a moot point in a couple of weeks. Does every candidate have to give a JFK "I don't answer to the Pope" speech?

Most major religious leaders in this day and age come with some craziness, partially because they're from a different generation with different values and attitudes than most people today. I'm not religious myself, but I see no reason why someone couldn't agree with a religious leader on purely spiritual matters but not social ones. Given Obama's openness in the past, until I see or hear something from him that indicates he actually espouses Wright's social values, I'm willing to take him at his word.

3/16/2008 6:44:37 PM

actionpants, did you really just compare the two?

Until McCain praises hagee, attends his church for 20 yrs, calls him his "sounding board" and spirtual advisor and Hagee accuses clinton of doing us like monica, inventing HIV to kill blacks, says GD america, blames the US for 9/11..THEN you might have a relative comparison.

Basically, Hagee endorsed McCain. Obama endorses Wright. No reasonable person can hear that man speak and think, "yeah, this is a great man. This is the church for me." Esp when you are running on your superior "judgement".

obama said he never heard that, I call BS. If facts come out that proves he was at one of those on tape, obama is done.

3/16/2008 6:52:20 PM

Well, McCain and Hagee have appeared on stage together and McCain said that he's proud to have Hagee's support. I'll grant you that it's not the same as having attended his church, but it's not like he did a lot to distance himself either. Like I said, I think both cases are pretty much bullshit.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/mega-church-pastor-in-texas-backs-mccain/#more-4374

However, I find it hard to believe that Obama would outright lie on national television about a church that distributes audio and video transcripts of all its sermons. Here's the "Audacity of Hope" sermon that Obama named his book after: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFZROa0rlMU

I'm sure there are countless reporters right now trying to prove that Obama was there for one of Wright's sermons like the clips that are getting played all over the news. The media and the other campaigns have looked through a lot of Wright's videos and they only found a few offensive statements. Obama has said that he hadn't heard these statements before and he rejects them as divisive. The other campaigns are trying to paint this as something this guy always says, and yet, we've only seen the same few videos over and over so most likely he went on a stupid rant. If you can prove that this was a regular thing for Wright, or that Obama agrees with his divisive comments implicitly, then please do.

[Edited on March 16, 2008 at 7:16 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2008 7:14:23 PM

http://tinyurl.com/266t8s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFbDpTPd0ac (obama addressing the wright issue)

3/16/2008 7:36:34 PM

Quote :

"When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr. Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton. Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

3/16/2008 9:13:57 PM

Just What Did Obama Know About Wright's Past Sermons?

Quote :

"In his Friday night cable mea culpas on the incendiary comments made by his spiritual adviser Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., repeatedly said, 'I wasn't in church during the time that these statement were made. I did not hear such incendiary language myself, personally. Either in conversations with him or when I was in the pew, he always preached the social gospel. ... If I had heard them repeated, I would have quit. ... If I thought that was the repeated tenor of the church, then I wouldn’t feel comfortable there.' Obama told CNN that he 'didn't know about all these statements. I knew about one or two of these statements that had been made. One or two statements would not lead me to distance myself from either my church or my pastor. ... If I had thought that was the tenor or tone on an ongoing basis, then yes, I don't think it would have been reflective of my values [emphasis added]."

Quote :

"But according to a New York Times story from a year ago, the Obama campaign dis-invited Wright from delivering a public invocation at Obama's candidacy announcement. 'Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,' Wright told the Times. 'One of his members had talked him into uninviting me.' In a phone call with Wright, Obama cited a Rolling Stone story, 'The Radical Roots of Barack Obama,' (the name of which has curiously been changed on the RS website) and told him, according to Wright, 'You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we've decided is that it's best for you not to be out there in public' [emphasis added]. That story included the following passage: 'The Trinity United Church of Christ, the church that Barack Obama attends in Chicago, is at once vast and unprepossessing, a big structure a couple of blocks from the projects, in the long open sore of a ghetto on the city's far South Side. The church is a leftover vision from the Sixties of what a black nationalist future might look like. There's the testifying fervor of the black church, the Afrocentric Bible readings, even the odd dashiki. And there is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, a sprawling, profane bear of a preacher, a kind of black ministerial institution, with his own radio shows and guest preaching gigs across the country. Wright takes the pulpit here one Sunday and solemnly, sonorously declares that he will recite 10 essential facts about the United States. 'Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college,' he intones. 'Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!' There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. 'We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. ... We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. ... We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. ... We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!' The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: 'And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S***!' This was more than a year ago. So ... what did Obama know then and what did he just all of a sudden learn?"

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/just-what-did-o.html

3/16/2008 11:41:47 PM

The nuttiest thing wright has been quoted as saying that i've read was the white-people-created-AIDS thing, which I didn't really see a context for.

The other stuff about damn America I think people are taking out of context, and holding to a double standard. As spookyjon's post indicates, this type of talk is not uncommon in churches, where people see America has going to hell in a hand basket. And as far as America causing 9/11. Anyone how doesn't see how our past foreign policy isn't responsible for 9/11 is a blind zealot. In this way, you can say that we caused it, and it seems this is the way Wright mentions this as well. Where you guys when Ron Paul and Mike Gravel were saying the same things?

At least though, this should help put the rest the rumors that Obama is secretly a muslim.

3/16/2008 11:58:23 PM

white people created AIDS...america caused 9/11 and had a part in carrying it out...

i hope yall are proud to be voting for the same candidate as salisburyboy

3/17/2008 12:47:22 PM

^ is wright running for pres right now? I didn't see that.

3/17/2008 12:48:21 PM

i guess if mccain or clinton had a long history with (insert name of crazy sociopath) it wouldnt matter...after all, (crazy sociopath) isnt running for president

3/17/2008 1:09:06 PM

tree, remeber when bush was blasted for SPEAKING at bob jones university. SPEAKING.

3/17/2008 1:11:39 PM

^ Yeah, and Romney had to give a speech "explaining" his religious beliefs. Apparently, Obama's going to offer something similar about race:

Obama plans major race speech tomorrow

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_plans_major_race_speech_tomorrow.html

3/17/2008 1:15:17 PM

^^^ The problem with that reasoning is that Wright is not a crazy sociopath. He's your typical religious nutjob with a bend for social issues.

^^ yeah, people were attacking Bush for DOING something in that situation, people are attacking Obama because someone KNOWS him. Do you not see a difference?

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 2:58 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2008 2:57:21 PM

maybe Obama believes in Separation of Church and State?

3/17/2008 3:25:30 PM

Quote :

"people were attacking Bush for DOING something in that situation, people are attacking Obama because someone KNOWS him"

so making a speech at a university one time is much much worse than being indoctrinated with a pastor's sermon for 20 years?

every time i claim theres a double standard...that people think differently about issues depending on if they like or dislike someone...someone tries to argue it but it always ends up supporting MY argument instead

3/17/2008 3:36:25 PM

So Obama has been indoctrinated now? Do you have any proof at all of this? Anything Obama has said or done to make you think this?

For someone who claims to hate the media so much, you seem to be eating up their dogma in this case.

3/17/2008 3:42:11 PM

so if you go to church for 20 years you dont get indoctrinated with anything? was obama intentionally not listening the whole time? i've got just a big a problem with religion as i do the media

Quote :

"Anything Obama has said or done to make you think this?"

are we not at least in agreement that a politician's word isn't worth shit? who gives a damn what obama or clinton or bush or mccain or whoever says...do you actually trust any of them? i sure as fuck dont, and i have no idea why any of you guys would either...BUT THIS CANDIDATE IS DIFFERENT! yeah right

politicians, specifically politicians who reach high enough ranks to have a legitimate shot at becoming President don't get there by being nice and waiting their turn and telling the truth all the time...why would you expect them to be any different? cause they're a woman or a black man? get the fuck out of here

3/17/2008 3:47:05 PM