Quote :

"As much as I dislike McCain. The fact that you call this man, after all he has been through, spineless is fucking absurd. "

he's politically spineless. Going from the straight-talk express days to the Bush Jr. he is today is nothing but spinelessness.

4/28/2008 4:02:10 PM

bush jr. wut? lol

he's like 1/3 of hillary 1/3 of obama and 1/3 of bush honestly. perfect mix of all 3 of these candidates

4/28/2008 4:03:36 PM

Really, his position on most foreign affairs issues (particuarlly the Iraq war, relations with N. Korea, etc) have not changed very much with time.

One could argue that he has had a less consistant record on some domestic policy issues like the 2001 Bush tax cuts, and I think those are fair criticisms. However, I am not very worried about this particuarly shift in position since the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate essentially make the issue of extending the 2001 Bush Tax Cuts a non-starter.

So really, all this "Bush Jr" stuff is image over substance. He makes nice with right-wing preachers on TV. Big woop.

Though it is not suprising Obama supporters would put so much weight on image. I mean, why else would they be supporting Obama to begin with?

4/28/2008 4:15:11 PM

lol @ that image part. so true.

4/28/2008 4:16:09 PM

Quote :

"So really, all this "Bush Jr" stuff is image over substance. He makes nice with right-wing preachers on TV. Big woop. "

delicious double standards.

Yum yum

4/28/2008 4:45:48 PM

^Have you seen socks' ' making a big deal about Obama's association with Rev. Wright? If not, then it's not a double standard when he says "big woop".

Conversely, you've been bitching for days about the unfair media treatment of Obama and Wright. Only a hypocrite or a partisan hack would bitch about that and then bring up McCain's ties to Hagee and Falwell.

[Edited on April 28, 2008 at 6:24 PM. Reason : 2]

4/28/2008 6:23:57 PM

^ Where have I been bitching about hagee and falwell? Not to mention, considering their MUCH bigger venues, the things they say have a bigger effect than anything Wright could dream of.

My concern is that people like eyedrb and treetwista ignore hagee and falwell to jump on Obama.

secondly, you're delusional if you think the coverage of hagee/falwell and McCain has been anywhere near the level of Obama/wright. it's clear certain elements of the media have an agenda to push on that issue. And now McCain is jumping in the band wagon too.

4/28/2008 8:23:19 PM

bitching about media bias and agendas just shows that you are way out in left field. Whiny liberals do it, hard-core conservatives do it, and crazy-ass conspiracy theorists do it. It's pretty obvious where you fit in.

4/28/2008 8:27:04 PM

Are you alleging media bias doesn't exist?

4/28/2008 8:31:34 PM

no he pretty much acknowledged it plainly

4/28/2008 8:32:50 PM

The mainstream media is pretty moderate. Just the fact that fringe groups on opposite ends of the spectrum are constantly complaining about perceived bias shows that it is in the middle.

Hell, for the longest time Clinton backers were complaining about how Obama is a media darling. They even made a SNL skit about it. The fact is that Jeremiah Wright is a big story right now, and the fact that he can't keep his mouth shut makes it a bigger story.

4/28/2008 8:38:27 PM

I've never claimed the media has a constant bias, the bias clearly shifts. BUt for the past few 2-3 months, they've been in hardcore anti-Obama mode. Before that, they were unusually gentle with him. McCain hasn't had his turn yet.

Before 9/11 they were against bush, after 9/11 they were pro bush, for a long time, up until about half-way through the Iraq war, then they became anti-bush (which is what caused his approval rating to plummet from high 30s to low 30s).

SO I do bitch about media bias, but I don't see it as immutable, and i never have.

Jon Stewart calls it their narrative, and this term becomes increasingly apt, as I see it, as time goes on.

4/28/2008 8:42:44 PM

An exchange between host Howard Kurtz and Colonel Ken Allard (ret.), military analyst, on CNN's Reliable Sources - April 27, 2008:

Quote :

"KURTZ: ... Cowan told me he recalled it quite vividly. Colonel Allard, I've got a few seconds left. Last year you quit NBC and MSNBC... ALLARD: That's right. KURTZ: ... after a 10-year relationship. You indicated you thought they were moving to the left. ALLARD: I thought they really had moved very surely to the left. And I also thought that when they had the chance to clarify the fact that they were not moving to the left, they didn't do so. KURTZ: How did that affect your role as an analyst? ALLARD: Well, number one, I was not getting on. And again, that had been a longstanding trend. And I simply saw the handwriting on the wall and said, you know what? They're going one way, I'm going the other. Guys, thank you very much. God bless you. I wish you well. KURTZ: All right."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/27/rs.01.html

4/29/2008 6:08:33 AM

Quote :

"And the Obama campaign responded to John McCain's rejections of the Wright ad...by saying he that McCain is unfit to lead [a clean campaign]. Real classy Obama."

You don't get it. This is a classic ploy.

1. Create an ad about a certain topic that has died down a bit.
2. Tell everybody what the ad is about and reject the ad.

Voila! The topic stays in the news, and you get to look like a good guy.

Quote :

"If Obama doesn't want a clean campaign (and he doesn't, because he is the master of being able to shit on everyone without getting his own clothes dirty), then I say let all hell break loose. Obama may think his shit don't stink now, but we'll see how he well he fares when he isn't preaching to the choir come November."

I think Obama's already been put through the ringer. How can things get any harder on him?

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 6:53 AM. Reason : ?]

4/29/2008 6:51:30 AM

Excellent defense. "McCain is lying anyways! I just know it!!!"

Anyways...

Moron, the media has been anti-Obama for the past 2-3 MONTHS? You're certainly the first to say that. Mind you that it was 3 months ago when SNL began its series of sketches on the media being so soft on Obama.

McCain during that same time period has been accused of having an affair and having inappropriate connections with lobbyists by the NYT, been accused of being a flip-flopper by The New Republic, been (unfairly) accused of not knowing the difference of Sunni and Shiite by the Washington Post....and you think the media is giving him a free ride????

Really, aside from the Wright thing, what has the media pelted Obama with? And how much should the Wright scandal even count? When Obama gave his "race speech" major newspapers and pundits couldn't help but compare him to Lincoln. Is that the anti-Obama bias you're talking about>

4/29/2008 7:59:37 AM

McCain has moved across the politically spectrum not once, but twice.

4/29/2008 8:08:32 AM

News flash:

Obama has just legitimized the discussion of Rev. Wright as an issue in the presidential campaign for the White house for 2008.

Quote :

" I think that people were legitimately offended by some of the comments that he had made in the past. The fact he's my former pastor I think makes it a legitimate political issue."

/thread

4/29/2008 10:31:52 AM

Quote :

"Really, aside from the Wright thing, what has the media pelted Obama with?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAAH. Wait a sec *taking a breath* HAHAHAHAHAHA.

You have to be shitting me. You can't fucking turn on a mainstream media station, nor radio, or print media and hear about Rev. Wright over and over again, OMG Clinton Comeback kid!, Flag Lapel Pin, Farrakhan, Racial Divides, his inability to get Reagan democrats, William Ayers and Weather Underground, Bittergate, et al. ad nausea. And even if it falls out of the news cycle, some pundit, a debate, GOP ad in any of the given primaries downballot, will bring it right back up to remind you (JUST IN CASE YOU FORGOT) that Obama is a divisive, angry, snobby, arrogant, extremist who hates his country.

The media is literally squeezing the life out of him as a candidate so this notion that he's not receiving scrutiny is completely and utterly absurd.

4/29/2008 11:07:49 AM

well let's not get so hasty. i mean hillary lied about sniper fire too. and of course that was the bigger issue wasn't it?

4/29/2008 11:17:30 AM

^ NOW Obama is getting scrutiny, but that's only been in the past few weeks. To say that the media has been anti-Obama for the past 3 MONTHS is fucking retarded. Especially when you compare his treatment with Hillary's or McCain's. For example, you mention the Farrakhan thing. Well, McCain has recieved his own fair share of questions about wacky religious leaders that endorse him. Obama, however, has not been accused of having an affair (rather the apperance of having an affair) on the front page of the New York Times. Sorry, none of what you said is in the same fucking ball park.

Here's a good way to think about the point I'm trying to make. Two weeks ago, Obama was grilled on trivial gaffes by George Stumpalumpakus in the NC Debates. Two months ago, Anderson Cooper literally asked Obama if he could eat his shit for lunch. That is NOT an exaggeration. Cooper literally ate Obama’s turd to feel closer to the candidate…on NATIONAL TELEVISION. YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS SHIT UP!!!

4/29/2008 11:19:59 AM

Your response doesn't really make sense. It has been since early March that the scrutiny began on Obama which is closing on two months.

These McCain scandals you mention are a blip by some editorial or columnist but thats' as far as they go, b/c the Dems Primary is where every single repeatable spotlight is on. Trust me, for every one situation Obama is in, it gets turned over in the media machine 1000 spins to McCain's 1 or 2 spin.

It's not hard to figure out why...it's because this shit SELLS!

Look, I don't know why you can't admit to this - take a step away from your now 'party line' a bit and be intellectually honest here. How could you not think that for the past almost 2 months Obama has been absolutely rocked. He might have been built by the media at some point, but the same media hath taken away. And then some.

4/29/2008 11:24:21 AM

Quote :

"For example, you mention the Farrakhan thing. Well, McCain has recieved his own fair share of questions about wacky religious leaders that endorse him."

Really? I mean, Parsley makes Rev Wright seem like a SAINT, and Hagee is pretty bad too, and McCain aligned himself with Hagee POLITICALLY (Obama did the opposite with Wright) - but were there any television cameras around when McCain received his own fair share of questions about Hagee and Parsley? I haven't seen any of this at all.

4/29/2008 11:25:58 AM

in my not so humble opinion: whenever McCain acts like a political creature, it is completely transparent because its not in his nature. its easy to call him out on it. i still think he means well more often than almost anybody out there.

4/29/2008 11:28:14 AM

^^mccain took a stance and boldy disagreed with any anti-wright material.


even when obama himself said just 2 days ago that it is in fact legit now as a political discussion.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 11:30:24 AM

Kainen,

You do realize that editorial columns don't appear on the front page of the NYT times right? This "story" was not the speculation of some left-wing version of Ann Coulter. This was the New York Times reporting "news" (they heard that some of McCain's aids had thought that his connection to some lobbyist may make it look like he was having an affair...really solid stuff).

And like I said, how much can this Wright "scandal" count as being anti-Obama bias? When Obama gave his "race speech" every pundit and editorial columnist was tripping over himself to compare Obama to Lincoln.

The idea that Obama has been the victim of bias is nothing but sour grapes of Obama supporters that are tired of hearing about Rev. Wright (who is now all but trying to make himself news). They got used to Obama never being called out for anything, so it seems like any criticism at all is the result of "bias"/

4/29/2008 11:33:53 AM

I don't think it's bias socks, I think it's regurgitation and overt zeal from media trying to ride the next 'story', gaffe, or scandal.

I think Obama was right to be scrutinized however fair or unfair. However - what I don't feel is right is the over saturation and repeating horns blaring the same thing over and over again until he is reduced to our media and political equivilancy of 'unelectable'. It is clear they are riding this shit to denounce and otherwise great candidate and campaign.

I guess if there's an opening, don't give an inch and all..but it just suprises me to how big a chorus he has to respond. The Clinton brand, all media outlets sans leftist blogosphere, McCain and all the republicans. It's just really unyielding.

And well, frankly im just fatigued from this primary and tired of not hearing about stuff that matters.

4/29/2008 11:42:02 AM

politics =

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 11:43:14 AM

Quote :

"mccain took a stance and boldy disagreed with any anti-wright material. "

But he never did that with Hagee or Parsley did he?

Nope!

4/29/2008 11:45:29 AM

Ditto. I really cannot wait for the Democratic primaries to be over.

I am hoping that this will be the most issues driven GE in recent memory, because we actually have two candidates with very different policy proposals to discuss.

4/29/2008 11:48:38 AM

^^ what logic is that?

neither did barrack seperate himself from wright. he's a part of his life and always will be, just as obama said. at least mccain isn't even making an issue out of it all. he's just telling the republicans to shut up and let the fires burn out from this.

4/29/2008 11:57:10 AM

Quote :

"I am hoping that this will be the most issues driven GE in recent memory, because we actually have two candidates with very different policy proposals to discuss."

You're going to be sorely disappointed.

There's too much at stake for Democrats and Republicans to leave the campaign to be being solely issues-based.

4/29/2008 6:29:31 PM