Quote :

"well, definitely dont refer to them as "less educated""

I thought the same thing when I read the title

5/2/2008 4:19:01 PM

Quote :

"As someone who has been on the other end of this, be careful. More often than not, the 'Chiefs are the backbone of the Navy' and 'boots on the deckplates' spiels come across as condescension. JCASHFAN and FeebleMinded have the best points, IMHO. Everybody knows you're the new guy and nobody expects you to be perfect. They do expect you to be an officer and a leader. It's a tough spot, especially for a JO. As FeebleMinded said, you have to find that spot between being everyone's friend and being completely detached."

hey man, just remember, I'm not commissioned yet, so all this advice hasn't been tested.

5/2/2008 4:31:22 PM

it's just so hard to talk to those people!

5/2/2008 4:46:05 PM

this isn't the military and if you treat your employees like they are soldiers you are going to create brand new problems. seriously, good for all of you who are in the armed services but I think joe is talking about the private sector

also,

Quote :

"Remember the phrase "No one cares about your education except your mama" Funny as it sounds, I'm serious. Education alone will earn you very little.... "

this is retarded advice. education is VERY HARD for some people, and a lot of people are very proud of their achievements. I would NOT espouse an attitude that nobody cares about education.

[Edited on May 3, 2008 at 10:18 AM. Reason : d]

5/3/2008 10:13:18 AM

first thing, I agree that the fact you made this thread already makes you "that guy" but It'll be honest it's almost impossible to avoid.

I face this same situation all the time. i'm not sure how to avoid it completely. I think time and a willingness to defer when I appropriate helps. But there will always be a separation, and it will be within them. At least if your situation is like the ones I've been in.

I also agree that bullshitting amount things that "people" all deal with or have interest in. Education is such a small factor in life. Sports, Significant others, the weather,news, not politics, traffic and assorted bullshit will make for easy conversation that places everyone on common ground

5/3/2008 12:54:52 PM

have you ever had a "real" job? during summers or high school? like for me I've primed tobacco and worked on farms, and done construction. you know something blue-collar like. try to talk about your blue collar work experiences and identify with them. I don't have any real college education, and ive always held blue collar jobs. I've found I get along better with the college types if they have something in common with me or at least sort of understand where im coming from. dig?

5/4/2008 6:52:40 AM

Quote :

"intelligent is not synonymous with educated."

simonn

This is an important distinction.

5/4/2008 8:22:34 AM

education is a very broad word. learn what you can from these people who have a lot of experience both doing whatever you're doing at work, and also in life in general.

5/4/2008 9:59:46 PM

Quote :

"have you ever had a "real" job? during summers or high school? like for me I've primed tobacco and worked on farms, and done construction. you know something blue-collar like. try to talk about your blue collar work experiences and identify with them. I don't have any real college education, and ive always held blue collar jobs. I've found I get along better with the college types if they have something in common with me or at least sort of understand where im coming from. dig? "

well said. Working out in the field in my past has helped me bridge the gap between the "carpet" and the "floor" workers (as it was said at my place of internship the past two summers :beatup.

5/5/2008 8:26:53 AM

Quote :

"you're either trolling or retarded because he doesn't have to act a certain way when around people that dont have the same degree he does. Speak english and don't be condescending. its not that difficult to figure out."

i dont see it that way. first of all there is a difference between educated an intelligent.

but the whole point of his post was that THEY already have this attitude towards him and the situation regardless of how he has acted. its not as cut and dry as youre making it out to be, and ive seen similar situations like this several times. Usually involving people I would definitely never say were pretentious, but the people they are working with are treating them as if they were.

[Edited on May 5, 2008 at 8:40 AM. Reason : ]

5/5/2008 8:40:17 AM

Quote :

"I also agree that bullshitting amount things that "people" all deal with or have interest in. Education is such a small factor in life. Sports, Significant others, the weather,news, not politics, traffic and assorted bullshit will make for easy conversation that places everyone on common ground"

Say what you will, but...

I FUCKING HATE TALKING ABOUT SPORTS.

It's not some leveler. People get way too wrapped up in it and talk above everyone else's head anyway. Also, the people who care form too many opinions that don't matter worth shit. In fact, the entire realm of information that is sports is useless except for the purpose of discussing it with other people who have learned about it in a similar manner to yourself. I still try to keep up with it, for said reason. But I fucking hate it.

5/5/2008 7:43:02 PM

I got it at my old job. She knew I was in graduate school and saw that my stats were higher than anyone else in our center. i was getting the most positive feedback, the most literature mailed out but yet she would ALWAYS monitor me and always "teach" me where the other 2 hired with me (who are in their 40's) were never even spoken to. Needless to say she called me one day and was like we have too many in our call center. AKA she was scared I was going to take her job. She was lazy and uneducated BUT had 10 years experience as a call center super. BS in my opinion because she kept on those who were JUST like her.

5/6/2008 12:36:41 AM

I get this a little now and then from my job. I'm an estimator/project manager for an electrical contracting company. I seem to get the stink eye more from people in my age range (20-30) who are just basic field hands and electricians than from the foreman and superintendents.

And I think a lot of that has to do with how these people view their jobs and our company. For the basic field hands this is just their monday-friday 7-4 job. Get in get out and leave it all behind. And here I am, the college graduate with minimal field experience in his fancy office doing nothing.

The foreman and superintendents see it differently. They know that themselves and myself are both integral parts of the team reaching a common end goal. Without me and the office guys our company wouldn't be awarded jobs. Once those jobs are awarded the foreman know it takes their skills and leadership and experience to get that job built correctly and efficiently so that the whole team sees profit in the end. But they also need us office guys to arrange materials, inspections, and every other vital non-labor part of the job to succeed.

I think that has a lot to do with it

5/6/2008 10:26:57 AM

This is all good advice, BUT...

The military advice is great only for the military. Private industry changes FAR faster than the military. Don't continually kowtow to their "wisdom and experience." If you defer to their opinion constantly, they'll feel as though your degree was useless - and by extension, everyone else who comes along with it will have to deal with the same. Presumably you are up to date on the most recent technologies and procedures, and if at any time you know that you've got a better idea, assert yourself. They won't respect you or your degree if they can't see any purpose in your having it.

Basically, they'll respect you if you earn it. You earn it by (1) showing that you're willing to learn from them (respect their knowledge), and (2) showing that you're able to contribute (respect yourself).

5/6/2008 2:27:13 PM

Quote :

"Still, some are bitter towards me, although one guy has started to accept me for who I am and is becoming a pretty good friend."

it takes time. no real way around it

5/6/2008 3:17:48 PM

Unfortunately things haven't gotten much better over the past month. One guy has opened up a little more, but still the older guys are very bitter.

6/10/2008 10:32:02 PM

I got called Doogie Howser one time...I took it as a compliment.

6/11/2008 12:06:58 AM

the old guys are bitter because they're scared.

they know the younger and more educated are eventually going to eat them.

that's just fucking life.



i have to deal with this now, as an engineer... funny thing is i used to be enlisted Navy, then a journeyman electrician for several years before going back to school for EE.

now people out here don't know i used to be a tradesman think i don't know shit... but then inevitably i pull some shit out my ass and surprise the ignorant bastards, and that's when i can slap em back down into their place.

6/11/2008 12:16:52 AM

who gives a shit. let them be bitter, just do your job and don't worry about it

6/11/2008 12:18:34 AM

hey, i just noticed.... Three Joes in a Row

6/11/2008 12:21:44 AM

Quote :

"How can you get rid of that unwanted and awkward air of "superiority" and "pretentiousness" that people think you have based solely off of your educational background and job title"

you're working with lineman, foremen, and superintendents in a specialized construction industry that's been based off of apprenticeship for years. Your educational background is a joke to them.

I'm just waiting to see how fucked up the electrical utility industry gets in the next 5-10 years when over half the workforce hits retirement age and bounces with their pension plan.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 9:34 AM. Reason : they treat their groundsmen and apprentices like shit for years, so you're not alone.]

6/11/2008 9:17:57 AM

I had a somewhat similar experience

I worked in a factory and was the only one in college there
I was also the boss's son

my advice is to work your ass off
volunteer for the shittiest tasks and just try to kick ass at your job
ask questions

sounds like you're doing the right thing

some of those guys might never accept you but if you're polite and generally likeable most of them will come around

6/11/2008 5:26:59 PM

Quote :

"Your educational background is a joke to them."

agreed, and it was never my intentions to try to change how they feel about it.

i did get them to laugh at me today though I was doing some cadwelding and the shit flamed up on my nomex jacket and burned a nice hole in my shoes

Quote :

"they treat their groundsmen and apprentices like shit for years, so you're not alone."

and that's something i dont understand. without them, we'd be without power. and considering the aging workforce like you mentioned, the utility industry is going to be screwed without them.

6/11/2008 6:25:18 PM

I agree with the way they treat their apprentices though. It's a really dangerous job field, and people have to learn quickly that the mistakes they make could cost someone their life or limbs. When you considering how specialized the field is, you have to assume new guys don't know anything about the practicality of the work they're doing. Even with an electrical engineering degree, things like step potential or how much current can flow past a ground switch and grounded out line during a fault aren't things that you would easily figure out on your own.

Has anyone chewed you out for leaning on the side of a truck yet?

6/11/2008 6:53:50 PM

nah not yet

maybe i should lean up next to a truck and see what they do but im guessing in the event that the truck become energized for some reason, and me being the perfect path to ground

6/11/2008 7:00:14 PM

YOU GOT TIME TO LEAN, YOU GOT TIME TO CLEAN

6/11/2008 7:01:36 PM

Quote :

"but im guessing in the event that the truck become energized for some reason, and me being the perfect path to ground"

yeah, I've seen the aftermath of that more times than I would like to, and it's not pretty. The end result is usually a person with their feet burnt off, their kneecaps exploded off their body, and 3rd degree burns on their back and butt. It makes you think twice about what you might be in contact with.

6/11/2008 10:08:28 PM

holy shit ^

I had never really thought about that

6/11/2008 10:18:46 PM

Quote :

"hey, i just noticed.... Three Joes in a Row"

Nice!

6/11/2008 10:47:41 PM