I moved into an old 2 story (plus cellar) townhouse over the winter. Based on my winter experiences this place seems pretty drafty. I'm dreading the summer AC power bills

I personally like to keep the temperature around 70-72 but anything up to 75 is fine with me. I hardly spend any time in my bedroom so I'll only be turning that AC window unit on shortly before bed.

5/5/2008 10:41:29 AM

wow

we've had the air on a total of 2 late afternoons for a couple of hours

i cant wait for the cheapy bill this month

5/5/2008 10:44:11 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "I've considered when screening roommates to tell them that i pay a maximum for each utility that I know is a good average for 3 people, and if it goes higher than that, then I won't pay. Like electric, I'd just say I don't pay more than $60, whatever is left over you have to take care of. Usually our bill is around 180, so that's a proper third. If the bill goes to 200 or better, than they pick up the extra 20. If the bill is 150, then I just pay $50. I've never actually tried this, but have considered it. " So how would you go about proving that they used the electricity that caused the bill to go up. I would never agree to something like that. It basically gives you a free pass to use extra electricity on someone else's tab. I'm not saying you would deliberately do that, but that payment system sets it up to happen. "

I never did it or really thought about it too in depth, just throwing ideas out there.

I lived in an apartment complex a couple years that covered electricity bills up to $75 for the apartment. It was convenient, and whenever we went over $75, they just handed us a bill.


I guess if I were to actually do it (won't do this cause i'm moving) I'd probably just show them the average electric bills before they moved in, and say I won't pay more than the average.

but let's be real here, they are wanting to live with me, so it's my rules. I don't really have to prove anything.

5/5/2008 11:03:55 AM

digital programmable thermostats FTW

5/5/2008 11:12:45 AM

Where can I find a good cheap one?

5/5/2008 11:14:19 AM

good ones cost around $150...I had mine installed when I replaced the furnace in house.

saving me a ton of money, and yet I keep the cozy temps when I am home.

[Edited on May 5, 2008 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

5/5/2008 11:15:38 AM

Quote :

"digital programmable thermostats FTW "

oooo

$129.99
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2126060&cp=2568443.2568453.2627949.1260927

5/5/2008 11:20:21 AM

Thanks. I decided to go ahead and create a thread.

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=525151

5/5/2008 11:22:57 AM

see, I dont turn on the heat in the winter. so therefore I think I break even with you all because I run the ac like a bitch in the summer

5/7/2008 2:07:51 AM

If you have a $400 electric bill you either live in a 4000 sq. ft. home or an uninsulated barn.

Granted, I have a job, but I don't pay much attention to the thermostat so a 20% fluctuation isn't that big a deal. I pretty much keep it off unless I'm really hot. Cold can be dealt with via the simple solution of a sweater or a blanket. If it gets really hot the AC comes on, but really... $400? I'd talk to your landlord re: insulation, etc. and then tell your roommates that they need to curb that shit. If it gets really bad tell them that you're only willing to pay for an avg. bill from the fall or spring and you don't want the AC. Be prepared for some bitching though.

5/7/2008 2:21:49 AM

^ ive seen houses (my parents) that size still be in the two hundred range or less for bills, granted everything is new and they keep it at 72 (summer) and 67 (winter).


It sounds like the thread creature has a place with 4 people who don't give a damn about power at all (tons of electronics, old stove, washer, dryer, dishwasher, poor insulation, normal bulbs, etc). They're probably keeping the older A/C at 65 (meaning your a/c run's 24 hours a day all summer).

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 6:33 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2008 6:33:04 AM

I never had air conditioning until college, so I can go without it pretty much.

As for the thread topic, I definitely recommend moving out (like some other people already said).

5/7/2008 3:48:06 PM

Quote :

"the fan is fine to keep on, it won't use up much energy"

our power bill runs ~$30 higher when the fan stays on all the time

5/7/2008 3:49:42 PM

my fan stays on pretty frequently and my bills arent much more than $30 total fall/spring

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 4:08 PM. Reason : ]

5/7/2008 4:08:25 PM

70-75 depending on how bad it is outside during the summer (keeps it 74-79 inside) and generally cooler 65-70 in the winter

i hate having to change clothes at home in the winter... (summer i have to as for work i need pants but after that im in shorts)

5/7/2008 4:21:16 PM

I've had 400 dollar utility bills. I made a thread about it but everyone in the house is too apathetic read -lazy to do anything about it. If we stay here another year I'm going to take action and figure out what is going on.

We would not run the HVAC for entire billing cycles and still pull 300 dollar bills. with 2100 kWh usage. I'm thinking water heater.

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 9:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/7/2008 9:17:37 PM

that doesnt even make sense, you leaving the fridge door open with the temperature maxed out?

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 9:23 PM. Reason : ]

5/7/2008 9:22:39 PM

well one of my douchenozzle roommates has a desklamp that's literally on 20/7. Fridge rarely gets opened because everyone is too cheap to buy food.

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 9:28 PM. Reason : ,]

5/7/2008 9:28:14 PM

Is this an apartment or a home. I would suggest getting a time of use with demand energy rate if you use a lot of energy. Do you have a gas or electric water heater?

I use a lot of energy in my house. My peak can be around 3800 kWh's in the summer. This energy rate saves me over $600 a year (have saved over $3000 in the 5 years). The only way to really improve my situation is to get a much better A/C unit. You probably dont have that option.

I created a very detailed explanation of TOU-D here :
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158
[this post was aimed towards explaining TOU-D with plug in hybrids. This is still applicable to regular energy users]
THIS IS VERY LONG AND DETAILED. IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT TIME OF USE RATES, AND ARE UNAWARE OF TIME OF USE WITH DEMAND, YOU NEED TO READ THIS.

A lot has been spoken about going to a time of use rate when it comes to plug in hybrids to save money. The basic idea is to change your service so that electric rates are cheaper in the evening when you would charge your car (reducing the cost to charge).

I have actually been on a Time of Use with Demand rider for the last 6 years. I know most of the Ups and Downs. It saves me over $600 a year, and I though I would post my experiences so people can go ahead and investigate the rates for themselves in their own area armed with more knowledge. In my 6 years with the service, I have NEVER gotten a bill where I failed to save money over the standard rate. NEVER. My total savings exceed $3000 dollars. As I will explain later, the only difference to my life style is drying clothes during non peak hours (after 9PM or on weekends). Basically I just do my laundry in the evening or weekends. You don’t have to do this, but if you can dry during non-peak, it adds a lot to your savings. A few things of note... It is VERY important you do your own research on electric rates in your area. The availability of these plans, and the effectiveness of their rates varies WILDLY from one power company to another. Also, in our area, the customer support centers for the electric utility will do their best to steer you away from these plans. I have convinced at least 4 co-workers to go to this plan, and everyone has saved a lot of money.

Terms Defined:
On-peak Hours: These are hours that your electric company has designated as peak hours for high energy demand. For many locations, this would start around 9AM and continue to the early evening (8-9PM) and include Monday through Friday (excluding holidays).

Off-peak Hours: These are hours that your electric company has designated as off peak hours for low energy demand. For many locations, this would start around 8-9PM at night and continue through 9AM the next morning. Off peak hours also normally include all hours during the weekend and holiday.

On-peak kWh: The energy used during on-peak hours

Off-peak kWh: The energy used during off-peak hours

Demand Factor: Differs depending on the area... The demand factor is a rate (usually a summer and winter rate) multiplied by the most On-peak kWh you used during a given period of time for the month (for my location, this is 15 minutes, I have seen more for others). This can be difficult to understand, and I'll explain that later.

Let me define a few types of rates out there when it comes to Time of Use:

Time of Use (or All Energy Time of Use):
General rate equation:

* Service Charge + (On-peak rate) x (total on-peak kWh) + (Off-peak rate) x (total off-peak kWh)

This means that after each month, they will add up all peak and off peak energy used, and multiply those numbers times their respective rate.

* What’s the catch? It’s the on-peak rate. It is often near double what you pay for your standard rate. The off peak rate is about half your normal rate. So during a given month, if you generally use about the same amount of energy on peak as off peak, you'll come out about even (and save no money).

* What’s the advantage? If you can structure your energy costs to the evening (don’t run much A/C or heat during the day, wash dry clothes at night) then you can save significantly.

Time of Use with Demand
General rate equation:
* Service Charge + (On-peak rate) x (total on-peak kWh) + (Off-peak rate) x (total off-peak kWh) + Demand Factor

* What’s the advantage? Your on and off peak rates are generally around half as expensive as the standard rate.

* What’s the catch? The demand factor.

The demand factor defined:
"The largest number of kWhs used during a 15 minute period during all on-peak hours multiplied by a seasonal adjuster."

You take the 15 minute period of energy used during peak hours (in my case, it averages around 7.5 kWh) and multiply is by a seasonal number. For my location, you multiply 7.5 x ($5.02) in the summer or ($3.50) in the winter. This gets added to the bill.

Actual number comparisons from my own bills for the different service:

PEAK MONTH USED (8/24/07 Bill Date):
3,360 kWh total used
1249 On Peak energy used
2111 Off Peak energy used
9.05 Demand Factor

If I paid for this using Residential Service:
$6.75 (service fee) + 3360 x .09678 cents = $325.18

If I paid for this using Time of Use Service All-Energy:
$9.85 (service fee) + 1249 x .16179 (on-peak charge) + 2111 x .04528 (off peak charge) = 9.85+202.08+95.59=$307.52
[17.66 savings over regular plan]

If I paid for this service using Time of Use with Demand (I currently have this rate):
$9.85 (service fee) + 1249 x .05902 (on-peak charge) + 2111 x .04528 (off-peak charge) + $5.02 x 9.05 (demand factor) = $9.85+$73.72 + $95.59 + $45.43 = $224.59
[$100.60 savings over regular plan]

As you can see, the savings with Time of Use with Demand can be very dramatic. The biggest X component is the Demand Factor. Most people are scared to subscribe to this service because their demand factor energy used it unknown.

How I estimated mine:
I cut everything on in the house that could be on at one point. I had the A/C running, the washing machine running, the dish washer going, the stove top on, the TVs on, then I went outside to look at my electric meter and recorded the number. I waited 15 minutes, then went outside to record the next number. That is your max demand factor estimated.

Biggest factors that will add to your demand factor:
Electric Dryers
Electric Water Heaters
Electric Air and Heat

I have a gas water heater and gas heater. With this rate, I actually wish I had an electric heater (would save me money), but the water heater being on gas does shave off some peak demand. My big rule is NEVER DRY CLOTHES DURING ON PEAK HOURS. Drying clothes can add 2-3 to the demand factor. Anything else goes.

Go to your local utility websites and start researching your rates. I have seen some locations where the actual rates are very bad, and some that are much better than mine. I seem to be in the middle.

Please ask questions and I will try to answer them. I do not mind giving you more information on my precise bills.

ON ADDED NOTE: you savings on time of use are going to be more impressive the more energy you use. During the winter, I use around 900-1700 kWh a month. During the summer, it peaks around 3500 kWh, but then tapers off to around 2500. If people get serious about switching, I can get more detailed.


[Edited on May 9, 2008 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2008 12:41:56 PM

^Very informative. I'm sure it was directed at the OP, but we have declined Greenville Utilities "Beat the Peak" plan over and over because the way it was explained to me was that they shut off your A/C during peak hours. This makes so much more sense and it's motivated me enough to call them up and discuss my options.

The only problem I have is that I'm the only one that will take care of things like this and the utility bill is not in my name. I'm limited as to what information the reps will tell me. Thanks for the post and I might PM you once I gather everything I can.

We have an electric water heater which might be the culprit.

Two computers, two laptops, stereo receiver, cable box, LCD 32", 19" CRT, 19" LCD, 51" rear projection, dishwasher, infocus, washing machine, dryer. These are all of the appliances I can think of off the top of my head.

I want to say 1500sqft, 3 bedroom, 1 bath house with poor insulation, but most windows are new(er). Large bay window and two larger old windows in the den.

[Edited on May 9, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2008 2:01:11 PM

Well, I mentioned the electric water heater, not as necessarily a huge reason for a high water bill, but TOU-D works better with things like the water heater being gas, not electric.

who does greenville use for power? I will see if I cant find some information on their rates, and explain the differences. every utility does peak rates a little different.

In my case, I actually use more energy, but it costs me less.

5/9/2008 2:21:39 PM

I printed the residential rates and I'm going to try and sweet talk the reps into giving me information over the phone. What I would really love is to have every bill from June07 - May08 either printed or in PDF. I think this will require some cooperation with the dick roommate though.

http://www.guc.com/About/ElectricRatesandRegulations.aspx

I know Greenville Utilities is a reseller of the power, but they monopolize the entire area as far as who you can purchase power from. Our bill includes water, waste (sewer/trash), electricity, and gas (not turned on)

The problem though lies with the electricity breakdown so it's not the fact that our bill is "all in one". Their "beat the peak" program http://www.guc.com/Residential/BeatthePeak.aspx does not sound exactly like what you are referring to.

I appreciate your help, any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed.

[Edited on May 9, 2008 at 2:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/9/2008 2:50:07 PM

put pubic hairs in their food and pee in their drinks

5/9/2008 2:54:50 PM

Wow, those tariffs SUCK BALLS. You should call them and flat out ask "do you have any time of use or time of use with demand riders?" If they do, find out what their on peak/off peak times are, the rates of on peak/off peak energy, and the how the demand factor is determined. I dont see them on the site, but I wouldnt be surprised if they are hiding them. Out of all the utility company rates I have looked at over the past year, those are the worst.

[Edited on May 9, 2008 at 3:04 PM. Reason : ,]

5/9/2008 3:03:51 PM

move to a better climate, my electric bill is < $25/month

i don't have ac but when it occasionally gets too hot in my apartment i just go hang out at the beach and let the breeze from the pacific take care of things...

5/9/2008 3:28:21 PM

Its all about insulation. I live in 3 bedroom house thats less then 8 years old and keep it a cool 72 in the summer and 68 in the winter. My bill ranges from 60 bucks up to 150 bucks MAX.

5/9/2008 9:09:57 PM

Insulation means a lot. But in his case, a lot of the problem is probably the efficiency rating of his A/C. I have added a shit ton of insulation to my 10 year old hour (in the attic it is rated at R-40). Havent seen noticeable differences before and after the insulation. I also sealed the windows, and put in the solar reflective coating. My unit just sucks, runs all the time, and has a poor poor efficiency.

5/10/2008 2:42:18 AM

last two months have been 200 and 230 respectively without running the A/C

5/10/2008 8:32:49 AM

Quote :

"We would not run the HVAC for entire billing cycles and still pull 300 dollar bills. with 2100 kWh usage. I'm thinking water heater."

Quote :

"last two months have been 200 and 230 respectively without running the A/C"

This is what I'd do. Check to make sure your meter works. Check to make sure your air conditioning unit is the one that is attached to your meter. Check to make sure no one else's air conditioning unit is attached to your meter.

I lived in an apartment once where they had our neighbor's AC unit attached to our meter and our AC unit attached to their meter. Didn't find out until the neighbors moved and our air stopped working all of a sudden. You never know.

$200 is way to much, and I couldn't even imagine how you get that high if you aren't even running the AC.

5/10/2008 8:46:57 PM

Quote :

"well one of my douchenozzle roommates has a desklamp that's literally on 20/7. Fridge rarely gets opened because everyone is too cheap to buy food. "

even assuming hes using a 60W bulb (which can be overkill for a desklamp), if hes leaving it on 20hours a day nonstop, thats still probably only $4 a month or less assuming about $0.15/kWh (im not sure the price of energy in raleigh). Not saying he should do that, but that certainly isnt a culprit in a power bill of several hundred dollars.

5/11/2008 5:04:10 PM

Random question... do you have a heat pump?

5/11/2008 7:34:41 PM

They told me GUC does not offer that service.

^I'm not sure tbh, I know we have gas heat, but can't remember if that means yes or no typically. I would have to check the hvac unit outside. (Rental property, we didn't turn the gas on)

5/13/2008 12:29:01 PM

something interesting to note is that a fridge/freezer will use slightly more energy to maintain a temperature if it is nearly empty than if it was full. And on a similar note, if youre not using it much and depending on what you keep in it, adjust the temperature upwards. No need to keep the fridge on 10/10 with nothing in it that will go bad at a warmer temp.

I barely keep any food in my fridge (milk, some other drinks, fruits that taste better cold, and some sandwich meat..all only enough for one person so my fridge is nearly empty) and I keep the temperature on like 2/10 (some freezers will have these numbers reversed so that a lower number is colder, mine is lower number = warmer.. but you get the idea). Ive never had any of my food go prematurely bad and im sure im saving money by letting the fridge stay warmer than people might normally have it. Same for my freezer. I keep my freezer on the warmest temperature possible at times when i have no food in it.

5/13/2008 12:54:22 PM

^good call. I'm going to schedule someone to come out and check out my energy efficiency mess soon.

5/13/2008 1:39:23 PM

Thanks for all the input. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do. We just got our latest electric bill: $175. The bill before it, when the air conditioning had not been on at all, was $88.

It's only up from here.

5/14/2008 6:27:33 PM

I'm going to be a miser and keep the AC off most of the summer if I can. I haven't had the heat or AC on in 2-3 months in this place.

Saves money and reduces waste, and I've not really been uncomfortable at all the whole time I've had it off. I just man up and get used to the temperatures, then the whole season becomes more bearable (even doing yardwork when it's hot as balls out or whatever, it makes it more tolerable if you don't keep your house at a temperature that's such a "jump" from the outdoor temperature).

The rest of you are simply wasting money and increasing your overall discomfort.

5/14/2008 10:08:07 PM

How am I increasing my overall discomfort?

5/14/2008 10:34:00 PM

Easy, by getting used to the higher temperatures and keeping it at a setting where I'm not sweating my nutsack off (but I wouldn't call it cool in here, just cooler than outside), I'm comfortable inside, and when I go out it's not that big a change and doesn't feel that hot. Same with the winter. It's cooler in here, and it feels less awful out.

It's cheaper this way and I'm more comfortable overall. Keeping your AC set as low as some people in this thread have mentioned (less than 70 degrees) is just a neurotic way to waste money.

Setting the thermostat for "just comfortable enough" indoors will save energy overall (something we tend to waste in the US, anyway), and you'll feel less like saying "holy shit I just walked into satan's asshole" when you go outside in the summer.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 10:43 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2008 10:40:30 PM

Quote :

"Keeping your AC set as low as some people in this thread have mentioned (less than 70 degrees) is just a neurotic way to waste money."

How so? I find it uncomfortable otherwise. I don't spend much time outside. Even if I did, I doubt keeping it a few degrees warmer inside would make summers more comfortable outside. Furthermore you'll get a better nights sleep at a lower temperature, so it's better for me health wise.

5/14/2008 10:47:48 PM

Our electric usage is still 1500 kW/hr in a ~1300sqft place with 2 desktops 2 laptops(24/7), 5.1 receiver, 32" LCD, 27" CRT, PS3, 360, 45 minutes of showering daily, Cold/Cold clothes washing twice a week and the A/C is set to 75. Conscious about lighting as well.

10/1/2008 8:23:50 PM

i keep our house at 79-80 and my idiot roommates constantly leave the TV/Fans on all night and refuses to put computers including 2x monitors on suspend...we pulled ~$200/mo all summer

fuckers.

10/1/2008 8:26:46 PM

You should just be thankful you have someone to split that with. I live in PA now and per kwh it is 2x as much for electricity up here. How would you enjoy a 200 a month bill to pay by yourself?

10/1/2008 8:44:40 PM

how can you keep it at 79-80 and be annoyed that they leave their fans on? :/

TV's I can understand, I hate that shit. I leave my computer on 24/7 so fuck off

10/1/2008 9:09:45 PM

Quote :

"obviously if the apartment was getting hotter than 70 then the ac would not turn on, however your apartment absorbs heat that the other apartments surrounding it give off. when its 70 degrees outside i can open my windows and my apartment will stay around 80 "

I've often wondered about this phenomenon. I guess that makes sense. I've tried opening my windows when it drops below 70 and I wake up and it's hot as balls. My roommate is trying to suggest the same thing and I didn't know what to say.

10/1/2008 9:10:28 PM

i keep mine at 76, house is well insulated (4ft of spray shit in the attic from previous owner) and on a crawl space. 76 is great, but sometimes 74 is the ticket to get it cooler and feeling really nice.


so is it ok if i choose to keep it on "ON" instead of "AUTO" ?

i'd rather have it circulating air all throughout the house as one of my rooms gets much hotter when the fan isn't running due to multiple computers in the room.

10/1/2008 9:17:04 PM

Quote :

"i keep our house at 79-80 and my idiot roommates constantly leave the TV/Fans on all night and refuses to put computers including 2x monitors on suspend...we pulled ~$200/mo all summer"

That's nuts. I keep it 10 degrees below that in the summer and my bill is around 150 for 2K sqr feet.

10/1/2008 10:41:29 PM

^^74 is definitely a good number. It was 72 last month and we used 1550 kW/hr. 74-77 this month and it was 1530 ??

I still don't understand how people can get 700 kW/hr regularly.

Oh yeah, CarZin if you're reading this, check out Greenville's updated tariffs.

http://www.guc.com/About/ElectricRatesandRegulations.aspx

12.257 c per kWh ftw!

[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 11:33 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2008 11:29:39 PM

CarZin, I have seriously been considering switching to time of use with demand. It seems as if we could use whatever high-demand device we wanted so long as we didn't use more than one at a time as they all seem to consume about the same amount of power (4 to 5 kw). For example:
having the electric water heater on a timer to only run during off-peak hours
Turning off the AC before beginning a round of laundry or cooking dinner (two activities which should not be engaged in at once except off-peak)

Is that right?

It does suck that peak hours here run until 9pm.

10/2/2008 1:25:05 AM

On my way to work. I'll respond later on today.

10/2/2008 8:21:35 AM

my electric bill last month was 289.00

i'm trying to figure out wtf happened, it's been less than half that for the 2 years i've lived here.

10/2/2008 8:31:38 AM